Re: [Geoserver-devel] Crazy idea... what about GeoPackage straight in core for 2.12?

[Rahkonen Jukka (MML)]

Hi,

Conditional +1 for making GeoPackage into core. However, before giving a more 
official status for it I suggest to make sure that geopackage data store 
supports the use of spatial index in BBOX queries.  Otherwise users who try to 
use big geopackage as datastore for WMS will see suboptimal performance and 
believe that GeoPackage itself is slow because the service is slow.

I do see code about adding the spatial index support in 
https://github.com/geotools/geotools/commit/171bfb8931ca2866bd55aa2309770f88c3b37cf4#diff-0adb69381cfbeb460b956e5c794f7051.
  However, I made a test with GS 2.11 snapshot today and by use experience I 
feel that spatial index is not really used. I am not sure if logging at 
Geotools developer level is logging all the SQL because the log shows me just 
this

2017-08-18 10:48:31,215 DEBUG [org.geotools.rendering] - Querying layer 
http://www.openplans.org/topp:Jarvi with bbox: 
ReferencedEnvelope[520694.10973698314 : 529214.8293650263, 7152639.246868316 : 
7167382.654399831]
2017-08-18 10:48:31,215 DEBUG [org.geotools.jdbc] - CREATE CONNECTION
2017-08-18 10:48:31,216 DEBUG [org.geotools.jdbc] - SELECT "fid","geom" as 
"geom" FROM "Jarvi"

I suggest developers to have a look at the spatial index and also read 
http://erouault.blogspot.fi/2017/03/dealing-with-huge-vector-geopackage.html 
and analyze if suggestion for using JOIN instead of subquery makes sense. I 
have made some tests with tables which have less than 1 million features and I 
did not feel a big difference in speed but SQLite does make different query 
plans for those two. This is the plan with JOIN

SCAN TABLE rtree_ranta10jarvi_geom AS r VIRTUAL TABLE INDEX 2:C0E1C2E3
SEARCH TABLE ranta10jarvi AS t USING INTEGER PRIMARY KEY (rowid=?)

and this is the plan with subquery

SEARCH TABLE ranta10jarvi USING INTEGER PRIMARY KEY (rowid=?)
EXECUTE LIST SUBQUERY 1
SCAN TABLE rtree_ranta10jarvi_geom VIRTUAL TABLE INDEX 2:C0E1C2E3

Geoserver should require that spatial tables have R-Tree indexes and create 
them if they are missing. It will be harder to handle views, see 
https://github.com/opengeospatial/geopackage/issues/207. In simple cases views 
can be handled and QGIS knows how to do it 
http://osgeo-org.1560.x6.nabble.com/gdal-dev-GeoPackege-views-and-spatial-index-td5312752.html.

-Jukka Rahkonen-





Lähettäjä: Brad Hards <br...@frogmouth.net>
Lähetetty: 18. elokuuta 2017 1:14
Vastaanottaja: 'Jody Garnett'
Kopio: 'Geoserver-devel'; 'Andrea Aime'
Aihe: Re: [Geoserver-devel] Crazy idea... what about GeoPackage straight in 
core for 2.12?

> I like the idea of making geopackage core - because it is a good idea.
+1

> Brad when someone does have a chance to work on 1.2 is implemented it can
> start off life as a community module, and move into core when ready. We
> would need to support both versions right?
We would, but it probably won't be as a community module - its probably a
variation on the geopackage implementation we already have.
My thinking is that we don't want two implementations - users shouldn't need
to know what kind of geopackage they have, they just want to throw it against
the geoserver wall and have it stick in the right place.

Brad



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Re: [Geoserver-devel] Crazy idea... what about GeoPackage straight in core for 2.12?

[Brad Hards]

> I like the idea of making geopackage core - because it is a good idea.
+1

> Brad when someone does have a chance to work on 1.2 is implemented it can
> start off life as a community module, and move into core when ready. We
> would need to support both versions right?
We would, but it probably won't be as a community module - its probably a 
variation on the geopackage implementation we already have.
My thinking is that we don't want two implementations - users shouldn't need 
to know what kind of geopackage they have, they just want to throw it against 
the geoserver wall and have it stick in the right place.

Brad



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Re: [Geoserver-devel] Crazy idea... what about GeoPackage straight in core for 2.12?

[Jody Garnett]

Hey Brad / Andrea:

I like the idea of making geopackage core - because it is a good idea.

Brad when someone does have a chance to work on 1.2 is implemented it can
start off life as a community module, and move into core when ready. We
would need to support both versions right?

--
Jody Garnett

On 27 July 2017 at 06:40, Brad Hards  wrote:

> >   Hi,
> >   I was thinking about the current idea of splitting the geopackage
> > support into several
> >   modules, one store, one WFS output (extension), one WPS output
> > (extension), one WMS output
> >   (community, as written its dangerous for the server stability).
> >
> >   Well, given the importance of the format... what about having the
> > store part as a core component
> >   starting with 2.12? Given it's an OGC standard, it's a bridge
> we'll have
> > to cross anyways.
> >
> >   Opinions?
> I worry about the stability of the format. GeoPackage 1.2 isn't actually
> approved yet, and the changes from 1.1 are substantive (not just a patch):
> https://portal.opengeospatial.org/files/?artifact_id=74224=1 for
> the
> release notes.
>
> I think that extension would be better for 2.12 for store, and the outputs
> might even be better as remaining in community given the 1.1 -> 1.2
> transition.
>
> Brad
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Geoserver-devel] Crazy idea... what about GeoPackage straight in core for 2.12?

[Andrea Aime]

On Thu, Jul 27, 2017 at 12:40 PM, Brad Hards  wrote:

> I worry about the stability of the format. GeoPackage 1.2 isn't actually
> approved yet, and the changes from 1.1 are substantive (not just a patch):
> https://portal.opengeospatial.org/files/?artifact_id=74224=1 for
> the
> release notes.
>

Oh dear... and it will take some time before someone funds support for 1.2
once is out.
However, OGC cannot really expect people to just throw away all the 1.1
geopackages
or suddenly have all software switch to that version no?

The adoption of 1.2 in actual software as the preferred version might take
years, should
we really treat that a concern not to have it as supported?
If it goes like with other specs, by the time one gets some significant
foothold in the market, OGC
has created the N+1 version... it just never ends :-p

Cheers
Andrea



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Re: [Geoserver-devel] Crazy idea... what about GeoPackage straight in core for 2.12?

[Brad Hards]

>   Hi,
>   I was thinking about the current idea of splitting the geopackage
> support into several
>   modules, one store, one WFS output (extension), one WPS output
> (extension), one WMS output
>   (community, as written its dangerous for the server stability).
>
>   Well, given the importance of the format... what about having the
> store part as a core component
>   starting with 2.12? Given it's an OGC standard, it's a bridge we'll have
> to cross anyways.
>
>   Opinions?
I worry about the stability of the format. GeoPackage 1.2 isn't actually 
approved yet, and the changes from 1.1 are substantive (not just a patch): 
https://portal.opengeospatial.org/files/?artifact_id=74224=1 for the 
release notes.

I think that extension would be better for 2.12 for store, and the outputs 
might even be better as remaining in community given the 1.1 -> 1.2 
transition.

Brad




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Re: [Geoserver-devel] Crazy idea... what about GeoPackage straight in core for 2.12?

[Andrea Aime]

On Thu, Jul 27, 2017 at 1:57 AM, Ben Caradoc-Davies 
wrote:

> Makes sense to me. Can we get it done before the freeze?
>

Well, the nice thing is that we really just need to add a dependency to the
store in core
to have a basic setup going.
And maybe a custom panel (reusing  the shapefile one) to point have a file
browser
allowing the usage of .gpkg files?

Cheers
Andrea

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Re: [Geoserver-devel] Crazy idea... what about GeoPackage straight in core for 2.12?

[Ben Caradoc-Davies]

Makes sense to me. Can we get it done before the freeze?

Kind regards,
Ben.

On 27/07/17 05:08, Andrea Aime wrote:

Hi,
I was thinking about the current idea of splitting the geopackage support
into several
modules, one store, one WFS output (extension), one WPS output (extension),
one WMS output
(community, as written its dangerous for the server stability).

Well, given the importance of the format... what about having the store
part as a core component
starting with 2.12? Given it's an OGC standard, it's a bridge we'll have to
cross anyways.

Opinions?


Regards,

Andrea Aime

==
GeoServer Professional Services from the experts! Visit http://goo.gl/it488V
for more information.
==

Ing. Andrea Aime
@geowolf
Technical Lead

GeoSolutions S.A.S.
Via di Montramito 3/A
55054  Massarosa (LU)
phone: +39 0584 962313
fax: +39 0584 1660272
mob: +39  339 8844549

http://www.geo-solutions.it
http://twitter.com/geosolutions_it

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Re: [Geoserver-devel] Crazy idea... what about GeoPackage straight in core for 2.12?

[Jody Garnett]

I like the simplification; let's do it.

--
Jody Garnett

On 26 July 2017 at 10:08, Andrea Aime  wrote:

> Hi,
> I was thinking about the current idea of splitting the geopackage support
> into several
> modules, one store, one WFS output (extension), one WPS output
> (extension), one WMS output
> (community, as written its dangerous for the server stability).
>
> Well, given the importance of the format... what about having the store
> part as a core component
> starting with 2.12? Given it's an OGC standard, it's a bridge we'll have
> to cross anyways.
>
> Opinions?
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Andrea Aime
>
> ==
> GeoServer Professional Services from the experts! Visit
> http://goo.gl/it488V for more information.
> ==
>
> Ing. Andrea Aime
> @geowolf
> Technical Lead
>
> GeoSolutions S.A.S.
> Via di Montramito 3/A
> 55054  Massarosa (LU)
> phone: +39 0584 962313 <+39%200584%20962313>
> fax: +39 0584 1660272 <+39%200584%20166%200272>
> mob: +39  339 8844549 <+39%20339%20884%204549>
>
> http://www.geo-solutions.it
> http://twitter.com/geosolutions_it
>
> AVVERTENZE AI SENSI DEL D.Lgs. 196/2003
>
> Le informazioni contenute in questo messaggio di posta elettronica e/o
> nel/i file/s allegato/i sono da considerarsi strettamente riservate. Il
> loro utilizzo è consentito esclusivamente al destinatario del messaggio,
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> utilizzarlo per finalità diverse, costituisce comportamento contrario ai
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>
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>
>
> 
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Re: [Geoserver-devel] Crazy idea... what about GeoPackage straight in core for 2.12?

[Ian Turton]

I saw an interesting talk at foss4ge on a proposed extension to geopackage
to store sld and ows context in the package as a separate table. This would
allow an easy way to migrate a set of styled data from Qgis to geoserver
directly.

If we were to implement this having geopackage in core would make it much
easier.

Ian

On 26 Jul 2017 19:10, "Andrea Aime"  wrote:

Hi,
I was thinking about the current idea of splitting the geopackage support
into several
modules, one store, one WFS output (extension), one WPS output (extension),
one WMS output
(community, as written its dangerous for the server stability).

Well, given the importance of the format... what about having the store
part as a core component
starting with 2.12? Given it's an OGC standard, it's a bridge we'll have to
cross anyways.

Opinions?


Regards,

Andrea Aime

==
GeoServer Professional Services from the experts! Visit http://goo.gl/it488V
for more information.
==

Ing. Andrea Aime
@geowolf
Technical Lead

GeoSolutions S.A.S.
Via di Montramito 3/A
55054  Massarosa (LU)
phone: +39 0584 962313 <+39%200584%20962313>
fax: +39 0584 1660272 <+39%200584%20166%200272>
mob: +39  339 8844549 <+39%20339%20884%204549>

http://www.geo-solutions.it
http://twitter.com/geosolutions_it

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[Geoserver-devel] Crazy idea... what about GeoPackage straight in core for 2.12?

[Andrea Aime]

Hi,
I was thinking about the current idea of splitting the geopackage support
into several
modules, one store, one WFS output (extension), one WPS output (extension),
one WMS output
(community, as written its dangerous for the server stability).

Well, given the importance of the format... what about having the store
part as a core component
starting with 2.12? Given it's an OGC standard, it's a bridge we'll have to
cross anyways.

Opinions?


Regards,

Andrea Aime

==
GeoServer Professional Services from the experts! Visit http://goo.gl/it488V
for more information.
==

Ing. Andrea Aime
@geowolf
Technical Lead

GeoSolutions S.A.S.
Via di Montramito 3/A
55054  Massarosa (LU)
phone: +39 0584 962313
fax: +39 0584 1660272
mob: +39  339 8844549

http://www.geo-solutions.it
http://twitter.com/geosolutions_it

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