Re: [Geoserver-users] JAI and IMAGEIO on JRE11

[Jody Garnett]

Joe we as a community have been looking at what it will take to replace JAI
(as it was largely abandonded by Oracle). See review of open source
alternatives and some planning here
, recently we have
had some progress (largely on my own time as a "hobby") which I will be
presenting at foss4g.

If you or your organization is interested I would love to talk with you
offline ... I have found that any speculation online makes folks think the
problem is handled (and then there is no more funding or volunteer
enthusiasm to address).
--
Jody Garnett


On Wed, 5 Jun 2019 at 08:25, Joe Murphy  wrote:

> Hi Jody,
> That explanation was pretty good, and i was able to understand it (I'm not
> a senior developer). That might make a great NOTE for the webpage right
> there.
>
> So does that mean i will lose the rendering speed increase i got with the
> extension? Is the Pure Java JAI faster on JRE11 than JRE8? Has anyone had
> any experience with the speed differences?
>
>
> https://blog.idrsolutions.com/2015/03/why-we-are-abandoning-imageio-and-jai-for-image-support-in-our-commercial-java-code/
> I came across that the other day in my research to figure out JAI in
> JRE11. Any truth to their claims?
>
> Any recommendations to keep the speed we had before on JRE8 would be
> greatly appreciated.
>
> Joe
>
> On Mon, Jun 3, 2019 at 8:13 PM Jody Garnett 
> wrote:
>
>> We ship GeoServer with a pure java version of JAI. On Java 8 and older
>> versions an extension mechanism was provided which allowed JAI to be
>> installed as an "extension" to the JRE (and shared between applications).
>> Companies like Sun and Apple used this as an opportunity to provide a copy
>> with native code speeding up some of the operations. With Java 9 the java
>> extension system was replaced with a module system called jigsaw (and the
>> extensions no longer work).
>>
>> The pure java JAI can still be used as a plain java library allowing you
>> to run in Java 11. There will be some warnings (since the library assumes
>> it can have access to some internal classes which strictly speaking it no
>> longer in a privileged position to access).
>>
>> Do you have any questions on the above? And do you have any suggestions
>> on how we can tell that story better on the java.html page
>> --
>> Jody Garnett
>>
>>
>> On Mon, 3 Jun 2019 at 14:46, Joe Murphy 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello All,
>>>
>>> I am currently using the latest GeoServer .war Build in a Docker Image;
>>> using Debian latest, Tomcat latest, and JRE8.
>>>
>>> Its been working flawless for some time now, and i have been asked to
>>> move to OpenJDK JRE11. I was reading up on JAI and IMAGEIO and and came
>>> across this link in documentation.
>>> https://docs.geoserver.org/latest/en/user/production/java.html
>>>
>>> I noticed this "Outdated: install native JAI and ImageIO extensions"
>>>
>>> Does the "outdated" at the bigining of the title mean with the newest
>>> builds of .war that i will no longer need to post install the JAI and
>>> IMAGIO? or is support now gone?
>>>
>>> I'm trying to figure out what and if i need to do anything for JAI and
>>> IMAGEIO in JRE11. I noticed also where the path to put those in JRE8 is no
>>> longer a path location in JRE11. So also wondering if i need to make the
>>> path if i still need to figure out where to put those to files?
>>>
>>> Thank you for the help,
>>> Joe
>>>
>>> ___
>>> Geoserver-users mailing list
>>>
>>> Please make sure you read the following two resources before posting to
>>> this list:
>>> - Earning your support instead of buying it, but Ian Turton:
>>> http://www.ianturton.com/talks/foss4g.html#/
>>> - The GeoServer user list posting guidelines:
>>> http://geoserver.org/comm/userlist-guidelines.html
>>>
>>> If you want to request a feature or an improvement, also see this:
>>> https://github.com/geoserver/geoserver/wiki/Successfully-requesting-and-integrating-new-features-and-improvements-in-GeoServer
>>>
>>>
>>> Geoserver-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/geoserver-users
>>>
>>
___
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Please make sure you read the following two resources before posting to this 
list:
- Earning your support instead of buying it, but Ian Turton: 
http://www.ianturton.com/talks/foss4g.html#/
- The GeoServer user list posting guidelines: 
http://geoserver.org/comm/userlist-guidelines.html

If you want to request a feature or an improvement, also see this: 
https://github.com/geoserver/geoserver/wiki/Successfully-requesting-and-integrating-new-features-and-improvements-in-GeoServer


Geoserver-users@lists.sourceforge.net
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Re: [Geoserver-users] JAI and IMAGEIO on JRE11

[Andrea Aime]

On Wed, Jun 5, 2019 at 5:31 PM Joe Murphy 
wrote:

>
> https://blog.idrsolutions.com/2015/03/why-we-are-abandoning-imageio-and-jai-for-image-support-in-our-commercial-java-code/
>

We took a similar road several years ago when imageio-ext and jai-ext have
been created.

There is really no reason to use imageio native bindings left, GeoServer
has faster PNG
encoding embedded since years (thanks to the PNGJ library) and faster JPEG
encoding/decoding
tanks to the turbo-jpeg pluging. The TIFF reader has been replaced and the
image streams too.

When it comes to jai-ext, which are the image processing operations like
scaling/reprojecting,
the direction has been fixes, ROI support everywhere, and NODATA support.
Performance was still considered, but operations are generally not as fast
as the native JAI equivalents
(they are normally as fast as the pure java JAI or faster, but providing
improved correctness and features,
and when you really start using the extra features, there's a performance
penalty as there is more work involved).

It's up to you to decide where you want to go. If you want highest possible
performance and you don't need
NODATA support, you have no masks, you reproject data very seldomly or see
no white/black lines in the output,
then disable jai-ext and stick to Java 8 + native JAI. Mind this is a path
that is going to eventually die out,
getting native JAI builds is harder and GeoServer tests are no longer
checking proper functionality
under those conditions (since 2.15.0 was released). But it should be viable
for a little while longer.

I'd suggest to run a benchmark comparing the two options, and see if you
can live with the better supported version
(jai-ext) or actually need to go and use native JAI to get the required
performance for your use case

Cheers
Andrea

GeoServer Professional Services from the experts! Visit http://goo.gl/it488V
for more information. == Ing. Andrea Aime @geowolf Technical Lead
GeoSolutions S.A.S. Via di Montramito 3/A 55054 Massarosa (LU) phone: +39
0584 962313 fax: +39 0584 1660272 mob: +39 339 8844549
http://www.geo-solutions.it http://twitter.com/geosolutions_it
--- *Con riferimento
alla normativa sul trattamento dei dati personali (Reg. UE 2016/679 -
Regolamento generale sulla protezione dei dati “GDPR”), si precisa che ogni
circostanza inerente alla presente email (il suo contenuto, gli eventuali
allegati, etc.) è un dato la cui conoscenza è riservata al/i solo/i
destinatario/i indicati dallo scrivente. Se il messaggio Le è giunto per
errore, è tenuta/o a cancellarlo, ogni altra operazione è illecita. Le
sarei comunque grato se potesse darmene notizia. This email is intended
only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain
information that is privileged, confidential or otherwise protected from
disclosure. We remind that - as provided by European Regulation 2016/679
“GDPR” - copying, dissemination or use of this e-mail or the information
herein by anyone other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you
have received this email by mistake, please notify us immediately by
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Geoserver-users mailing list

Please make sure you read the following two resources before posting to this 
list:
- Earning your support instead of buying it, but Ian Turton: 
http://www.ianturton.com/talks/foss4g.html#/
- The GeoServer user list posting guidelines: 
http://geoserver.org/comm/userlist-guidelines.html

If you want to request a feature or an improvement, also see this: 
https://github.com/geoserver/geoserver/wiki/Successfully-requesting-and-integrating-new-features-and-improvements-in-GeoServer


Geoserver-users@lists.sourceforge.net
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Re: [Geoserver-users] JAI and IMAGEIO on JRE11

[Joe Murphy]

Hi Jody,
That explanation was pretty good, and i was able to understand it (I'm not
a senior developer). That might make a great NOTE for the webpage right
there.

So does that mean i will lose the rendering speed increase i got with the
extension? Is the Pure Java JAI faster on JRE11 than JRE8? Has anyone had
any experience with the speed differences?

https://blog.idrsolutions.com/2015/03/why-we-are-abandoning-imageio-and-jai-for-image-support-in-our-commercial-java-code/
I came across that the other day in my research to figure out JAI in JRE11.
Any truth to their claims?

Any recommendations to keep the speed we had before on JRE8 would be
greatly appreciated.

Joe

On Mon, Jun 3, 2019 at 8:13 PM Jody Garnett  wrote:

> We ship GeoServer with a pure java version of JAI. On Java 8 and older
> versions an extension mechanism was provided which allowed JAI to be
> installed as an "extension" to the JRE (and shared between applications).
> Companies like Sun and Apple used this as an opportunity to provide a copy
> with native code speeding up some of the operations. With Java 9 the java
> extension system was replaced with a module system called jigsaw (and the
> extensions no longer work).
>
> The pure java JAI can still be used as a plain java library allowing you
> to run in Java 11. There will be some warnings (since the library assumes
> it can have access to some internal classes which strictly speaking it no
> longer in a privileged position to access).
>
> Do you have any questions on the above? And do you have any suggestions on
> how we can tell that story better on the java.html page
> --
> Jody Garnett
>
>
> On Mon, 3 Jun 2019 at 14:46, Joe Murphy 
> wrote:
>
>> Hello All,
>>
>> I am currently using the latest GeoServer .war Build in a Docker Image;
>> using Debian latest, Tomcat latest, and JRE8.
>>
>> Its been working flawless for some time now, and i have been asked to
>> move to OpenJDK JRE11. I was reading up on JAI and IMAGEIO and and came
>> across this link in documentation.
>> https://docs.geoserver.org/latest/en/user/production/java.html
>>
>> I noticed this "Outdated: install native JAI and ImageIO extensions"
>>
>> Does the "outdated" at the bigining of the title mean with the newest
>> builds of .war that i will no longer need to post install the JAI and
>> IMAGIO? or is support now gone?
>>
>> I'm trying to figure out what and if i need to do anything for JAI and
>> IMAGEIO in JRE11. I noticed also where the path to put those in JRE8 is no
>> longer a path location in JRE11. So also wondering if i need to make the
>> path if i still need to figure out where to put those to files?
>>
>> Thank you for the help,
>> Joe
>>
>> ___
>> Geoserver-users mailing list
>>
>> Please make sure you read the following two resources before posting to
>> this list:
>> - Earning your support instead of buying it, but Ian Turton:
>> http://www.ianturton.com/talks/foss4g.html#/
>> - The GeoServer user list posting guidelines:
>> http://geoserver.org/comm/userlist-guidelines.html
>>
>> If you want to request a feature or an improvement, also see this:
>> https://github.com/geoserver/geoserver/wiki/Successfully-requesting-and-integrating-new-features-and-improvements-in-GeoServer
>>
>>
>> Geoserver-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/geoserver-users
>>
>
___
Geoserver-users mailing list

Please make sure you read the following two resources before posting to this 
list:
- Earning your support instead of buying it, but Ian Turton: 
http://www.ianturton.com/talks/foss4g.html#/
- The GeoServer user list posting guidelines: 
http://geoserver.org/comm/userlist-guidelines.html

If you want to request a feature or an improvement, also see this: 
https://github.com/geoserver/geoserver/wiki/Successfully-requesting-and-integrating-new-features-and-improvements-in-GeoServer


Geoserver-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/geoserver-users

Re: [Geoserver-users] JAI and IMAGEIO on JRE11

[Andrea Aime]

On Mon, Jun 3, 2019 at 11:50 PM Joe Murphy 
wrote:

> https://docs.geoserver.org/latest/en/user/production/java.html
>
> Does the "outdated" at the bigining of the title mean with the newest
> builds of .war that i will no longer need to post install the JAI and
> IMAGIO? or is support now gone?
>

A few lines below it says: "Warning Users should take care that JAI native
libraries remove support for NODATA pixels, provided instead by the pure
Java JAI-EXT libraries."

This is the main reason to call it outdated, regardless of the JDK you're
using. The Java 11 situation also adds on top of it.

Cheers
Andrea

==

GeoServer Professional Services from the experts! Visit http://goo.gl/it488V
for more information. == Ing. Andrea Aime @geowolf Technical Lead
GeoSolutions S.A.S. Via di Montramito 3/A 55054 Massarosa (LU) phone: +39
0584 962313 fax: +39 0584 1660272 mob: +39 339 8844549
http://www.geo-solutions.it http://twitter.com/geosolutions_it
--- *Con riferimento
alla normativa sul trattamento dei dati personali (Reg. UE 2016/679 -
Regolamento generale sulla protezione dei dati “GDPR”), si precisa che ogni
circostanza inerente alla presente email (il suo contenuto, gli eventuali
allegati, etc.) è un dato la cui conoscenza è riservata al/i solo/i
destinatario/i indicati dallo scrivente. Se il messaggio Le è giunto per
errore, è tenuta/o a cancellarlo, ogni altra operazione è illecita. Le
sarei comunque grato se potesse darmene notizia. This email is intended
only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain
information that is privileged, confidential or otherwise protected from
disclosure. We remind that - as provided by European Regulation 2016/679
“GDPR” - copying, dissemination or use of this e-mail or the information
herein by anyone other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you
have received this email by mistake, please notify us immediately by
telephone or e-mail.*
___
Geoserver-users mailing list

Please make sure you read the following two resources before posting to this 
list:
- Earning your support instead of buying it, but Ian Turton: 
http://www.ianturton.com/talks/foss4g.html#/
- The GeoServer user list posting guidelines: 
http://geoserver.org/comm/userlist-guidelines.html

If you want to request a feature or an improvement, also see this: 
https://github.com/geoserver/geoserver/wiki/Successfully-requesting-and-integrating-new-features-and-improvements-in-GeoServer


Geoserver-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/geoserver-users

Re: [Geoserver-users] JAI and IMAGEIO on JRE11

[Jody Garnett]

We ship GeoServer with a pure java version of JAI. On Java 8 and older
versions an extension mechanism was provided which allowed JAI to be
installed as an "extension" to the JRE (and shared between applications).
Companies like Sun and Apple used this as an opportunity to provide a copy
with native code speeding up some of the operations. With Java 9 the java
extension system was replaced with a module system called jigsaw (and the
extensions no longer work).

The pure java JAI can still be used as a plain java library allowing you to
run in Java 11. There will be some warnings (since the library assumes it
can have access to some internal classes which strictly speaking it no
longer in a privileged position to access).

Do you have any questions on the above? And do you have any suggestions on
how we can tell that story better on the java.html page
--
Jody Garnett


On Mon, 3 Jun 2019 at 14:46, Joe Murphy  wrote:

> Hello All,
>
> I am currently using the latest GeoServer .war Build in a Docker Image;
> using Debian latest, Tomcat latest, and JRE8.
>
> Its been working flawless for some time now, and i have been asked to move
> to OpenJDK JRE11. I was reading up on JAI and IMAGEIO and and came across
> this link in documentation.
> https://docs.geoserver.org/latest/en/user/production/java.html
>
> I noticed this "Outdated: install native JAI and ImageIO extensions"
>
> Does the "outdated" at the bigining of the title mean with the newest
> builds of .war that i will no longer need to post install the JAI and
> IMAGIO? or is support now gone?
>
> I'm trying to figure out what and if i need to do anything for JAI and
> IMAGEIO in JRE11. I noticed also where the path to put those in JRE8 is no
> longer a path location in JRE11. So also wondering if i need to make the
> path if i still need to figure out where to put those to files?
>
> Thank you for the help,
> Joe
>
> ___
> Geoserver-users mailing list
>
> Please make sure you read the following two resources before posting to
> this list:
> - Earning your support instead of buying it, but Ian Turton:
> http://www.ianturton.com/talks/foss4g.html#/
> - The GeoServer user list posting guidelines:
> http://geoserver.org/comm/userlist-guidelines.html
>
> If you want to request a feature or an improvement, also see this:
> https://github.com/geoserver/geoserver/wiki/Successfully-requesting-and-integrating-new-features-and-improvements-in-GeoServer
>
>
> Geoserver-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/geoserver-users
>
___
Geoserver-users mailing list

Please make sure you read the following two resources before posting to this 
list:
- Earning your support instead of buying it, but Ian Turton: 
http://www.ianturton.com/talks/foss4g.html#/
- The GeoServer user list posting guidelines: 
http://geoserver.org/comm/userlist-guidelines.html

If you want to request a feature or an improvement, also see this: 
https://github.com/geoserver/geoserver/wiki/Successfully-requesting-and-integrating-new-features-and-improvements-in-GeoServer


Geoserver-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/geoserver-users

[Geoserver-users] JAI and IMAGEIO on JRE11

[Joe Murphy]

Hello All,

I am currently using the latest GeoServer .war Build in a Docker Image;
using Debian latest, Tomcat latest, and JRE8.

Its been working flawless for some time now, and i have been asked to move
to OpenJDK JRE11. I was reading up on JAI and IMAGEIO and and came across
this link in documentation.
https://docs.geoserver.org/latest/en/user/production/java.html

I noticed this "Outdated: install native JAI and ImageIO extensions"

Does the "outdated" at the bigining of the title mean with the newest
builds of .war that i will no longer need to post install the JAI and
IMAGIO? or is support now gone?

I'm trying to figure out what and if i need to do anything for JAI and
IMAGEIO in JRE11. I noticed also where the path to put those in JRE8 is no
longer a path location in JRE11. So also wondering if i need to make the
path if i still need to figure out where to put those to files?

Thank you for the help,
Joe
___
Geoserver-users mailing list

Please make sure you read the following two resources before posting to this 
list:
- Earning your support instead of buying it, but Ian Turton: 
http://www.ianturton.com/talks/foss4g.html#/
- The GeoServer user list posting guidelines: 
http://geoserver.org/comm/userlist-guidelines.html

If you want to request a feature or an improvement, also see this: 
https://github.com/geoserver/geoserver/wiki/Successfully-requesting-and-integrating-new-features-and-improvements-in-GeoServer


Geoserver-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/geoserver-users