Re: [Geoserver-users] Curve support for SQL Server

[Andrea Aime]

Hi Mark,
a few remarks (none of them positive, sorry!):

   - SQL Server 2014 is too young, we cannot drop support for it just yet
   (in another 2-4 years maybe... upgrades of proprietary databases goes very
   slowly due to the licencing fees they have to pay, on top of all the tests
   and migration procedures involved... there was recently an article with
   scary numbers of Windows 2000 and 2003 servers still running in public
   administrations)
   - Standard WKB cannot represent curves, for example in the PostGIS case
   we had to roll special extensions for its EWKB format (afaik unique to
   postgis) in order to read curves, do you know what Microsoft did to support
   them?
   - I have vague memories that SQLServer WKB encoding methods were
   horribly slow a few years ago, compared to just decoding the structs, do
   you know if that improved?

That said, the source is open, so you're free to try out the setup you're
proposing, if it's better (faster, much easier to maintain, with some way
to handle curves, given the ) then we can consider it, maybe as an option
in the factory so that we can continue to support those that prefer a open
source driver and/or needto run on older versions.

Cheers
Andrea

PS: Aside, sql server is one of those proprietary databases that devs work
on only under contract... so unless there is resourcing to do the work
(contracts, or someone that wants to work in in their spare time), nothing
is going to be changed, regardless of the outcome of these discussions
(yes, I know it's annoying, but I prefer to be forthcoming).

On Mon, Aug 27, 2018 at 6:33 PM Mark Prins  wrote:

> Hi Olle, Andrea,
>
> I was looking at the Microsoft JDBC driver docs this weekend and noticed
> that the MS driver now actually has both a Geometry and a Geography
> class now that provide both a STGeomFromText(String wkt, int SRID) and a
> STGeomFromWKB(byte[] wkb) method [1] as well as STAsBinary()/STAsText()
> methods so going back-and-forth to eg a JTS geometry should be a breeze.
>
> It may be worth considering a new module or dialect that leverages the
> possibilities that the JDBC driver exposes instead of continuing on the
> old path of decoding shapes, segments and figures from the binary data
> which gets increasingly difficult with compound objects.
>
> This may mean dropping support for sqlserver 2014 and definitely the
> jdts driver, het good thing is that the Microsoft driver is now
> available in Maven Central[2] and available as Open Source[3] (MIT
> licensed) so no hassle with separate downloads and installs.
>
> [1]
>
> https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/sql/connect/jdbc/use-spatial-datatypes?view=sql-server-2017
>
> [2]
>
> https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/sql/connect/jdbc/download-microsoft-jdbc-driver-for-sql-server?view=sql-server-2017
>
> [3] https://github.com/Microsoft/mssql-jdbc
>
>
> On 07-06-18 18:14, Olle Markljung wrote:
> > Hehe yeah I understand :)
> >
> > I’ll try to make the estimate myself.
> >
> > /Olle
> >
> >
> > tors 7 juni 2018 kl. 17:28 skrev Andrea Aime
> > mailto:andrea.a...@geo-solutions.it>>:
> >
> > Hi Olle,
> > I have them, but we don't discuss estimates outside of private
> > business inquiries, sorry :-)
> > That said, estimates are personal, they change depending on
> > experience, topic and the like, so
> > they would not be much use anyways.
> >
> > If you decide you want someone else to do it for you, you can
> > contact commercial support providers
> > to get an estimate:
> > http://geoserver.org/support/
> >
> > Cheers
> > Andrea
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 4:46 PM, Olle Markljung  > > wrote:
> >
> > Hi Andrea and Mark
> >
> > Thank you for the swift response!
> >
> > Andrea, do you have a ballpark number of hours it took to
> > implement the support for curves in Oracle or PostGIS?
> >
> > Mark, did you have an estimation to complete the work you
> started?
> >
> > If I don’t find the time myself I’ll try to find funding and
> > seek commercial help and then it would be great to have a
> > ballpark number to start with.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Olle Markljung
> >
> > tors 7 juni 2018 kl. 14:58 skrev Mark Prins  > >:
> >
> > On 07-06-18 13:32, Olle Markljung wrote:
> >  > Hello all
> >  >
> >  > I have users that would be helped if curve support for
> > SQL Server became
> >  > real.
> >  > I'm not sure if the implementation is needed in GeoServer
> > or GeoTools
> >  > but I reach out here first.
> >  >
> >  > Are there others also seeking this support?
> >
> > Ik had a look into this some years ago but our funding
> > evaporated, so it
> > stranded, see
> 

Re: [Geoserver-users] Curve support for SQL Server

[Mark Prins]

Hi Olle, Andrea,

I was looking at the Microsoft JDBC driver docs this weekend and noticed 
that the MS driver now actually has both a Geometry and a Geography 
class now that provide both a STGeomFromText(String wkt, int SRID) and a 
STGeomFromWKB(byte[] wkb) method [1] as well as STAsBinary()/STAsText() 
methods so going back-and-forth to eg a JTS geometry should be a breeze.


It may be worth considering a new module or dialect that leverages the 
possibilities that the JDBC driver exposes instead of continuing on the 
old path of decoding shapes, segments and figures from the binary data 
which gets increasingly difficult with compound objects.


This may mean dropping support for sqlserver 2014 and definitely the 
jdts driver, het good thing is that the Microsoft driver is now 
available in Maven Central[2] and available as Open Source[3] (MIT 
licensed) so no hassle with separate downloads and installs.


[1] 
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/sql/connect/jdbc/use-spatial-datatypes?view=sql-server-2017


[2] 
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/sql/connect/jdbc/download-microsoft-jdbc-driver-for-sql-server?view=sql-server-2017


[3] https://github.com/Microsoft/mssql-jdbc


On 07-06-18 18:14, Olle Markljung wrote:

Hehe yeah I understand :)

I’ll try to make the estimate myself.

/Olle


tors 7 juni 2018 kl. 17:28 skrev Andrea Aime 
mailto:andrea.a...@geo-solutions.it>>:


Hi Olle,
I have them, but we don't discuss estimates outside of private
business inquiries, sorry :-)
That said, estimates are personal, they change depending on
experience, topic and the like, so
they would not be much use anyways.

If you decide you want someone else to do it for you, you can
contact commercial support providers
to get an estimate:
http://geoserver.org/support/

Cheers
Andrea


On Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 4:46 PM, Olle Markljung mailto:marklj...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Hi Andrea and Mark

Thank you for the swift response!

Andrea, do you have a ballpark number of hours it took to
implement the support for curves in Oracle or PostGIS?

Mark, did you have an estimation to complete the work you started?

If I don’t find the time myself I’ll try to find funding and
seek commercial help and then it would be great to have a
ballpark number to start with.

Regards,
Olle Markljung

tors 7 juni 2018 kl. 14:58 skrev Mark Prins mailto:mc.pr...@gmail.com>>:

On 07-06-18 13:32, Olle Markljung wrote:
 > Hello all
 >
 > I have users that would be helped if curve support for
SQL Server became
 > real.
 > I'm not sure if the implementation is needed in GeoServer
or GeoTools
 > but I reach out here first.
 >
 > Are there others also seeking this support?

Ik had a look into this some years ago but our funding
evaporated, so it
stranded, see https://osgeo-org.atlassian.net/browse/GEOT-5512

some unfinished work is in:

https://github.com/mprins/geotools/commit/e43286e7bae7101af0dad4edbee40f99ca81d4eb

docs are available at:

https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ee320858%28v=sql.105%29.aspx?f=255=-2147217396

Mark


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Re: [Geoserver-users] Curve support for SQL Server

[Olle Markljung]

Hehe yeah I understand :)

I’ll try to make the estimate myself.

/Olle


tors 7 juni 2018 kl. 17:28 skrev Andrea Aime :

> Hi Olle,
> I have them, but we don't discuss estimates outside of private business
> inquiries, sorry :-)
> That said, estimates are personal, they change depending on experience,
> topic and the like, so
> they would not be much use anyways.
>
> If you decide you want someone else to do it for you, you can contact
> commercial support providers
> to get an estimate:
> http://geoserver.org/support/
>
> Cheers
> Andrea
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 4:46 PM, Olle Markljung 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Andrea and Mark
>>
>> Thank you for the swift response!
>>
>> Andrea, do you have a ballpark number of hours it took to implement the
>> support for curves in Oracle or PostGIS?
>>
>> Mark, did you have an estimation to complete the work you started?
>>
>> If I don’t find the time myself I’ll try to find funding and seek
>> commercial help and then it would be great to have a ballpark number to
>> start with.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Olle Markljung
>>
>> tors 7 juni 2018 kl. 14:58 skrev Mark Prins :
>>
>>> On 07-06-18 13:32, Olle Markljung wrote:
>>> > Hello all
>>> >
>>> > I have users that would be helped if curve support for SQL Server
>>> became
>>> > real.
>>> > I'm not sure if the implementation is needed in GeoServer or GeoTools
>>> > but I reach out here first.
>>> >
>>> > Are there others also seeking this support?
>>>
>>> Ik had a look into this some years ago but our funding evaporated, so it
>>> stranded, see https://osgeo-org.atlassian.net/browse/GEOT-5512
>>>
>>> some unfinished work is in:
>>>
>>> https://github.com/mprins/geotools/commit/e43286e7bae7101af0dad4edbee40f99ca81d4eb
>>>
>>> docs are available at:
>>>
>>> https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ee320858%28v=sql.105%29.aspx?f=255=-2147217396
>>>
>>> Mark
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>>> ___
>>> Geoserver-users mailing list
>>>
>>> Please make sure you read the following two resources before posting to
>>> this list:
>>> - Earning your support instead of buying it, but Ian Turton:
>>> http://www.ianturton.com/talks/foss4g.html#/
>>> - The GeoServer user list posting guidelines:
>>> http://geoserver.org/comm/userlist-guidelines.html
>>>
>>> If you want to request a feature or an improvement, also see this:
>>> https://github.com/geoserver/geoserver/wiki/Successfully-requesting-and-integrating-new-features-and-improvements-in-GeoServer
>>>
>>>
>>> Geoserver-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/geoserver-users
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>> ___
>> Geoserver-users mailing list
>>
>> Please make sure you read the following two resources before posting to
>> this list:
>> - Earning your support instead of buying it, but Ian Turton:
>> http://www.ianturton.com/talks/foss4g.html#/
>> - The GeoServer user list posting guidelines:
>> http://geoserver.org/comm/userlist-guidelines.html
>>
>> If you want to request a feature or an improvement, also see this:
>> https://github.com/geoserver/geoserver/wiki/Successfully-requesting-and-integrating-new-features-and-improvements-in-GeoServer
>>
>>
>> Geoserver-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/geoserver-users
>>
>>
>
>
> --
>
> Regards, Andrea Aime == GeoServer Professional Services from the experts!
> Visit http://goo.gl/it488V for more information. == Ing. Andrea Aime
> @geowolf Technical Lead GeoSolutions S.A.S. Via di Montramito 3/A 55054
> Massarosa
> 
> (LU) phone: +39 0584 962313 fax: +39 0584 1660272 mob: +39 339 8844549
> http://www.geo-solutions.it http://twitter.com/geosolutions_it
> --- *Con riferimento
> alla normativa sul trattamento dei dati personali (Reg. UE 2016/679 -
> Regolamento generale sulla protezione dei dati “GDPR”), si precisa che ogni
> circostanza inerente alla presente email (il suo contenuto, gli eventuali
> allegati, etc.) è un dato la cui conoscenza è riservata al/i solo/i
> destinatario/i indicati dallo scrivente. Se il messaggio Le è giunto per
> errore, è tenuta/o a cancellarlo, ogni altra operazione è illecita. Le
> sarei comunque grato se potesse darmene notizia. This email is intended
> only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain
> information that is privileged, confidential or otherwise protected from
> disclosure. We remind that - as provided by European 

Re: [Geoserver-users] Curve support for SQL Server

[Andrea Aime]

Hi Olle,
I have them, but we don't discuss estimates outside of private business
inquiries, sorry :-)
That said, estimates are personal, they change depending on experience,
topic and the like, so
they would not be much use anyways.

If you decide you want someone else to do it for you, you can contact
commercial support providers
to get an estimate:
http://geoserver.org/support/

Cheers
Andrea


On Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 4:46 PM, Olle Markljung  wrote:

> Hi Andrea and Mark
>
> Thank you for the swift response!
>
> Andrea, do you have a ballpark number of hours it took to implement the
> support for curves in Oracle or PostGIS?
>
> Mark, did you have an estimation to complete the work you started?
>
> If I don’t find the time myself I’ll try to find funding and seek
> commercial help and then it would be great to have a ballpark number to
> start with.
>
> Regards,
> Olle Markljung
>
> tors 7 juni 2018 kl. 14:58 skrev Mark Prins :
>
>> On 07-06-18 13:32, Olle Markljung wrote:
>> > Hello all
>> >
>> > I have users that would be helped if curve support for SQL Server
>> became
>> > real.
>> > I'm not sure if the implementation is needed in GeoServer or GeoTools
>> > but I reach out here first.
>> >
>> > Are there others also seeking this support?
>>
>> Ik had a look into this some years ago but our funding evaporated, so it
>> stranded, see https://osgeo-org.atlassian.net/browse/GEOT-5512
>>
>> some unfinished work is in:
>> https://github.com/mprins/geotools/commit/e43286e7bae7101af0dad4edbee40f
>> 99ca81d4eb
>>
>> docs are available at:
>> https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ee320858%28v=sql.
>> 105%29.aspx?f=255=-2147217396
>>
>> Mark
>>
>> 
>> --
>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>> ___
>> Geoserver-users mailing list
>>
>> Please make sure you read the following two resources before posting to
>> this list:
>> - Earning your support instead of buying it, but Ian Turton:
>> http://www.ianturton.com/talks/foss4g.html#/
>> - The GeoServer user list posting guidelines: http://geoserver.org/comm/
>> userlist-guidelines.html
>>
>> If you want to request a feature or an improvement, also see this:
>> https://github.com/geoserver/geoserver/wiki/Successfully-
>> requesting-and-integrating-new-features-and-improvements-in-GeoServer
>>
>>
>> Geoserver-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/geoserver-users
>>
>
> 
> --
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> ___
> Geoserver-users mailing list
>
> Please make sure you read the following two resources before posting to
> this list:
> - Earning your support instead of buying it, but Ian Turton:
> http://www.ianturton.com/talks/foss4g.html#/
> - The GeoServer user list posting guidelines: http://geoserver.org/comm/
> userlist-guidelines.html
>
> If you want to request a feature or an improvement, also see this:
> https://github.com/geoserver/geoserver/wiki/Successfully-
> requesting-and-integrating-new-features-and-improvements-in-GeoServer
>
>
> Geoserver-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/geoserver-users
>
>


-- 

Regards, Andrea Aime == GeoServer Professional Services from the experts!
Visit http://goo.gl/it488V for more information. == Ing. Andrea Aime
@geowolf Technical Lead GeoSolutions S.A.S. Via di Montramito 3/A 55054
Massarosa (LU) phone: +39 0584 962313 fax: +39 0584 1660272 mob: +39 339
8844549 http://www.geo-solutions.it http://twitter.com/geosolutions_it
--- *Con riferimento
alla normativa sul trattamento dei dati personali (Reg. UE 2016/679 -
Regolamento generale sulla protezione dei dati “GDPR”), si precisa che ogni
circostanza inerente alla presente email (il suo contenuto, gli eventuali
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Re: [Geoserver-users] Curve support for SQL Server

[Mark Prins]

On 07-06-18 13:32, Olle Markljung wrote:

Hello all

I have users that would be helped if curve support for SQL Server became 
real.
I'm not sure if the implementation is needed in GeoServer or GeoTools 
but I reach out here first.


Are there others also seeking this support?


Ik had a look into this some years ago but our funding evaporated, so it 
stranded, see https://osgeo-org.atlassian.net/browse/GEOT-5512


some unfinished work is in: 
https://github.com/mprins/geotools/commit/e43286e7bae7101af0dad4edbee40f99ca81d4eb


docs are available at: 
https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ee320858%28v=sql.105%29.aspx?f=255=-2147217396


Mark

--
Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
___
Geoserver-users mailing list

Please make sure you read the following two resources before posting to this 
list:
- Earning your support instead of buying it, but Ian Turton: 
http://www.ianturton.com/talks/foss4g.html#/
- The GeoServer user list posting guidelines: 
http://geoserver.org/comm/userlist-guidelines.html

If you want to request a feature or an improvement, also see this: 
https://github.com/geoserver/geoserver/wiki/Successfully-requesting-and-integrating-new-features-and-improvements-in-GeoServer


Geoserver-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/geoserver-users

Re: [Geoserver-users] Curve support for SQL Server

[Andrea Aime]

Hi Olle,
I did work on the curve support for SQL Server and Oracle, I've built the
in memory geometry representation
and GML encoding support in the first implementation [1], so believe all
you need to do
is to add support for parsing curves at the store level, somewhere around
here:

https://github.com/geotools/geotools/blob/865cc72a90b07841a4c871d1b07fcc8e5defd35b/modules/plugin/jdbc/jdbc-sqlserver/src/main/java/org/geotools/data/sqlserver/SQLServerDialect.java#L619

Curves cannot be encoded in WKB, unless SQLServer has extensions, a sort of
extended WKB
like in PostGIS, so it might be that case that curves could be supported
only if native encoding is used.
For reference, here is PostGIS parser handling curves:
https://github.com/geotools/geotools/blob/865cc72a90b07841a4c871d1b07fcc8e5defd35b/modules/plugin/jdbc/jdbc-postgis/src/main/java/org/geotools/data/postgis/WKBReader.java#L117
and the class doing the same for Oracle:
https://github.com/geotools/geotools/blob/865cc72a90b07841a4c871d1b07fcc8e5defd35b/modules/plugin/jdbc/jdbc-oracle/src/main/java/org/geotools/data/oracle/sdo/SDO.java#L71

Here are the GeoTools contribution guidelines, check them carefully
(signing CLA, code conventions, proper test coverage, and other
things written in there, if you don't respect them the PR will be rejected,
so consider them in your estimates):
https://github.com/geotools/geotools/blob/master/CONTRIBUTING.md

Hope this helps

Cheers
Andrea


[1]: Well, minus eventual bugs and other case specific issues, that is

On Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 1:32 PM, Olle Markljung  wrote:

> Hello all
>
> I have users that would be helped if curve support for SQL Server became
> real.
> I'm not sure if the implementation is needed in GeoServer or GeoTools but
> I reach out here first.
>
> Are there others also seeking this support?
>
> I might be able to do the implementation myself but otherwise perhaps some
> of the commercial support partners can be contracted.
>
> First I need to get a grip of the magnitude of work that needs to be put
> in.
> I guess that the approach is similar to the support for Oracle Spatial and
> PostGIS but if someone involved in previous work could give some hints of
> how to go about to add the support for SQL Server it would be appreciated.
>
> Regards,
> Olle Markljung
>
>
>
> 
> --
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> ___
> Geoserver-users mailing list
>
> Please make sure you read the following two resources before posting to
> this list:
> - Earning your support instead of buying it, but Ian Turton:
> http://www.ianturton.com/talks/foss4g.html#/
> - The GeoServer user list posting guidelines: http://geoserver.org/comm/
> userlist-guidelines.html
>
> If you want to request a feature or an improvement, also see this:
> https://github.com/geoserver/geoserver/wiki/Successfully-
> requesting-and-integrating-new-features-and-improvements-in-GeoServer
>
>
> Geoserver-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/geoserver-users
>
>


-- 

Regards, Andrea Aime == GeoServer Professional Services from the experts!
Visit http://goo.gl/it488V for more information. == Ing. Andrea Aime
@geowolf Technical Lead GeoSolutions S.A.S. Via di Montramito 3/A 55054
Massarosa (LU) phone: +39 0584 962313 fax: +39 0584 1660272 mob: +39 339
8844549 http://www.geo-solutions.it http://twitter.com/geosolutions_it
--- *Con riferimento
alla normativa sul trattamento dei dati personali (Reg. UE 2016/679 -
Regolamento generale sulla protezione dei dati “GDPR”), si precisa che ogni
circostanza inerente alla presente email (il suo contenuto, gli eventuali
allegati, etc.) è un dato la cui conoscenza è riservata al/i solo/i
destinatario/i indicati dallo scrivente. Se il messaggio Le è giunto per
errore, è tenuta/o a cancellarlo, ogni altra operazione è illecita. Le
sarei comunque grato se potesse darmene notizia. This email is intended
only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain
information that is privileged, confidential or otherwise protected from
disclosure. We remind that - as provided by European Regulation 2016/679
“GDPR” - copying, dissemination or use of this e-mail or the information
herein by anyone other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you
have received this email by mistake, please notify us immediately by
telephone or e-mail.*
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list:
- Earning