Re: Translation of non-English documents
Dear all, Any treaty that makes it to the UN Treaty Series (in theory, anything that enters into force) is supposed to be translated into French and English, at least. However, a lack of translation staff has actually slowed the publication of these documents. For more information, see the following article: Kohona, Palitha T.B., ?The United Nations Treaty Collection on the Internet ? Developments and Challenges,? 30 International Journal of Legal Information (2002): 397-425. So translation has slowed the publication of international legal documents, not just our research about them! Cheers, Mark At 07:10 AM 4/13/2006, Simon wrote: --> Hi all -- a student of mine sent me this question this morning: "I'm doing a project for a spanish translation class that i am in and I was wondering how frequently you are faced with a lack of translated documents, or quality translated documents, (in any language) while doing research. Do you know if this is a major problem in the study of global environmental politics?" Any thoughts? Thanks, Simon Simon Nicholson Ph.D. Candidate School of International Service American University 4400 Massachusetts Avenue, NW Washington DC 20016 Ronald Mitchell, Professor Department of Political Science University of Oregon Eugene OR 97403-1284 Phone: 541-346-4880/Fax: 541-346-4860 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.uoregon.edu/~rmitchel/ International Environmental Agreements Database: http://iea.uoregon.edu/ Dissertations Initiative for the Advancement of Climate-Change (DISCCRS): http://www.aslo.org/phd/disccrsposter.pdf
Re: Translation of non-English documents
Hi, Simon & Kristen, I definitely second everyone else's comments. Regarding official documentation of negotiations particularly, there's one other thing - the quality of translations may be context specific. Most of the translators and interpretors I've met work for the FAO and other large multilateral organizations. They tend to be consummate professionals and often specialize in particular issues in order to build the nuanced technical vocabulary that is necessary for accurate translation. That said, these individuals are usually well compensated for their efforts, so smaller or less well funded bodies may not be able to afford such high quality services. Just as a point of interest, multilingual delegates themselves are often rigorous in their reading of official documents, and they don't hesitate to point out errors in translations. Thus, there may be another source of differentiation between smaller and larger treaties or management bodies, the volume of scrutiny that the documents receive. livwell, dgwebster Simon wrote: Hi all -- a student of mine sent me this question this morning: “I'm doing a project for a spanish translation class that i am in and I was wondering how frequently you are faced with a lack of translated documents, or quality translated documents, (in any language) while doing research. Do you know if this is a major problem in the study of global environmental politics?" Any thoughts? Thanks, Simon Simon Nicholson Ph.D. Candidate School of International Service American University 4400 Massachusetts Avenue, NW Washington DC 20016
RE: Translation of non-English documents
I am absolutely with Kathryn and Anthony on this. I would add a couple of observations: one, that if a person has not experienced learning a second or third language, he or she is far less sensitive to and imaginative about how things might be misconstrued in the translation process, and may also be a less careful listener to those who are speaking English but who are not native speakers. In general, learning languages makes one sensitive to linguistic nuance, and, particularly in diplomacy, this is a very important thing. Translations are virtually never precise equivalences to the original documents. I am working on a large collaborative international project now where people are bringing a variety of first languages (English, French, Slovak, Latvian, German, etc) but the official language is English. It is clear that the momentum of English dominance of the process will affect the nuances of the final report. Though it may not be terribly relevant to this discussion, I also just want to make the point that learning a language is one of those fundamental ways of opening up mental processes and cultural understanding. My far from perfect skills in Spanish and Portuguese and reading skills in some others are among those most treasured accomplishments of having lived a long life, because of the feeling that my sense of the world is larger and richer as a result. Angus Wright -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Kathryn.Hochstetler Sent: Thu 4/13/2006 9:11 AM To: gep-ed@listserve1.allegheny.edu Cc: 'Kirsten Luxbacher' Subject: Re: Translation of non-English documents I would answer the question a different way. I am fluent in Spanish and Portuguese, and have never done a research project in global environmental politics where I did NOT use both languages. While formal multilateral government documents are routinely translated, regional documents often are not, as previous posters have said. Documents by non-state actors are frequently not translated; nor are national government documents that may be important sources for understanding why countries took the positions they did in the multi-lateral treaties. And, of course, for actually observing negotiations, you can pick up a lot more about what's going on if you speak languages other than English. What is said and written in English (especially English only) is often a biased subset of what is part of global environmental politics. On the question of the quality of translation, I have heard an amusing story about negotiations in preparation for the Beijing conference on women. Delegates were having the usual sticky discussion about the word "gender", which the Vatican and others reject, since they say it implies there may be more categories than male and female. They prefer the two-category word "sex". In the middle of negotiations, the Spanish language negotiators came in to find that in their translation only, the word genero had been replaced with the word sex... Another interesting translation note (sorry, I really am fascinated by this issue): when I started studying South America in 1989, Spanish-speakers claimed they simply couldn't understand Portuguese while Brazilians had some ability to understand Spanish. But a decade later when I started studying the Mercosur free trade area, it turned out that communication was possible after all, if there was enough reason to do it. At Mercosur meetings, the Brazilians talk Portuguese and the Spanish-speakers talk Spanish, the documents are in whatever the language of the rotating presidency, and translation is a non-issue. Kathy Beth DeSombre wrote: > "Simon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on Thursday, April 13, 2006 at > 10:10 AM -0500 wrote: > >>"I'm doing a project for a spanish translation class that i am in and I >>was wondering how frequently you are faced with a lack of translated >>documents, or quality translated documents, (in any language) while doing >>research. Do you know if this is a major problem in the study of global >>environmental politics?" > > > I'm with Ron -- where I've run into the problem most (and have had to > simply eliminate some cases from a database) is regional treaties in > languages like Czech that I can't speak. > > I'm sure there are articles in other languages that would be useful if I > could access them in translation, but if I don't know the languages I may > not even be aware that they exist, so I don't know what I'm missing. > > Beth
Re: Translation of non-English documents
I feel compelled to join this discussion. I am fluent in Spanish, almost to a fault w/ my English, and adequately adept in Portuguese. I do my research mostly in these two languages. But my work involves peoples (indigenous) who are using Spanish as a second language. So basically, when I talk to them about the environment and resources, and their perceptions of it, their message is traversing three iterations U'wa (and other languages)-Spanish- English, the latter for my publications or communication to people who don't have access to Spanish. In each step, there is change, there is loss, there are power differentials employed by the interpreter. There is selection. What is our responsibility as scholars and interpreters? Good question. There are concepts (words) and world views that are difficult to universalize or translate. For example, I attended many workshops as a jornalist and scholar in Colombia that were dedicated to "Analisis de Coyuntura." in English, I might say, that is the conjuncture of political, economic, social and religious contexts. Yet, still to the day, I cannot find an English way to describe those workshops. I've never seen them done in English, in a cultural setting where English is the dominant language. Maybe, in German Zeitgeist. Concepts and their articulation -- and the power of their articuation -- are linked to the cultures within which they are embedded. This is a good discussion. Kudos to the student who raised it. Maybe we have a conference panel in the making? Actually, for the student, it's a great dissertation topic. How do perceptions about the environment vary/change/become appropriated though translation? What viewpoints and knowledge get included from whom and from where, given language barriers? Best, Leslie Wirpsa, Ph.D. S.V. Ciriacy Wantrup Post-Doctoral Fellow Instituite of International Studies University of California, Berkeley - Original Message - From: "Raul Pacheco" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Simon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Cc: "'Kirsten Luxbacher'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 12:10 PM Subject: Re: Translation of non-English documents Dear Simon, Kirsten and fellow GEP-EDers, I am with Kathy on this one too. I have not done a research project ever where my language skills have not come handy, particularly when it comes to reading literature that is not available in English. I (a native Spanish-speaker) often blame myself for not publishing so much in English and for devoting so much time to publish in Spanish, on the basis of how wide a readership I will find. However, I have also found that native Spanish speakers have contacted me for what I have published in that language, something they probably would have not done if I only had published in English. Furthermore, with my work on environmental NGOs, I found that there are a lot of subtleties that you can't capture in English and you can in Spanish, French, Italian and many other languages. And I am able to follow them when I am doing observational research because I understand the language. Now, I think I have strayed a bit from official position documents and treaties (which I think was the original question). I have found that often times, when a document was originally in English and then is translated into Spanish, no matter how good the translator is, it loses meaning. My $ 0.02 (two cents) -- - Raul Pacheco-Vega Institute for Resources, Environment and Sustainability The University of British Columbia 413.26-2202 Main Mall Vancouver, British Columbia Canada V6T 1Z4 --
Re: Translation of non-English documents
Dear Simon, Kirsten and fellow GEP-EDers, I am with Kathy on this one too. I have not done a research project ever where my language skills have not come handy, particularly when it comes to reading literature that is not available in English. I (a native Spanish-speaker) often blame myself for not publishing so much in English and for devoting so much time to publish in Spanish, on the basis of how wide a readership I will find. However, I have also found that native Spanish speakers have contacted me for what I have published in that language, something they probably would have not done if I only had published in English. Furthermore, with my work on environmental NGOs, I found that there are a lot of subtleties that you can't capture in English and you can in Spanish, French, Italian and many other languages. And I am able to follow them when I am doing observational research because I understand the language. Now, I think I have strayed a bit from official position documents and treaties (which I think was the original question). I have found that often times, when a document was originally in English and then is translated into Spanish, no matter how good the translator is, it loses meaning. My $ 0.02 (two cents) -- - Raul Pacheco-Vega Institute for Resources, Environment and Sustainability The University of British Columbia 413.26-2202 Main Mall Vancouver, British Columbia Canada V6T 1Z4 --
Re: Translation of non-English documents
I would answer the question a different way. I am fluent in Spanish and Portuguese, and have never done a research project in global environmental politics where I did NOT use both languages. While formal multilateral government documents are routinely translated, regional documents often are not, as previous posters have said. Documents by non-state actors are frequently not translated; nor are national government documents that may be important sources for understanding why countries took the positions they did in the multi-lateral treaties. And, of course, for actually observing negotiations, you can pick up a lot more about what's going on if you speak languages other than English. What is said and written in English (especially English only) is often a biased subset of what is part of global environmental politics. On the question of the quality of translation, I have heard an amusing story about negotiations in preparation for the Beijing conference on women. Delegates were having the usual sticky discussion about the word "gender", which the Vatican and others reject, since they say it implies there may be more categories than male and female. They prefer the two-category word "sex". In the middle of negotiations, the Spanish language negotiators came in to find that in their translation only, the word genero had been replaced with the word sex... Another interesting translation note (sorry, I really am fascinated by this issue): when I started studying South America in 1989, Spanish-speakers claimed they simply couldn't understand Portuguese while Brazilians had some ability to understand Spanish. But a decade later when I started studying the Mercosur free trade area, it turned out that communication was possible after all, if there was enough reason to do it. At Mercosur meetings, the Brazilians talk Portuguese and the Spanish-speakers talk Spanish, the documents are in whatever the language of the rotating presidency, and translation is a non-issue. Kathy Beth DeSombre wrote: "Simon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on Thursday, April 13, 2006 at 10:10 AM -0500 wrote: “I'm doing a project for a spanish translation class that i am in and I was wondering how frequently you are faced with a lack of translated documents, or quality translated documents, (in any language) while doing research. Do you know if this is a major problem in the study of global environmental politics?" I'm with Ron -- where I've run into the problem most (and have had to simply eliminate some cases from a database) is regional treaties in languages like Czech that I can't speak. I'm sure there are articles in other languages that would be useful if I could access them in translation, but if I don't know the languages I may not even be aware that they exist, so I don't know what I'm missing. Beth
Re: Translation of non-English documents
A couple thoughts. First, most researchers, of course, speak and read English as their second language, and are well used to having to cope with language issues. Second, my experience (as a native English speaker) is that a little knowledge of a few other languages can go a long way, if you simply have the courage to try, and keep the right friends. Knowing German and French means that I can get the gist of what is written in all the Germanic languages (German, Dutch, Danish, etc.) and the romance languages, and can then ask a friend who is a native speaker of one of those languages to help me out, if I find something interesting. It's a lifelong project. I am still hopeless with anything Slavic, or non-European, and want to learn Arabic and Russian by the time I am 50, and then move on to Chinese by the time I retire. Tony "Simon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on Thursday, April 13, 2006 at 10:10 AM -0500 wrote: “I'm doing a project for a spanish translation class that i am in and I was wondering how frequently you are faced with a lack of translated documents, or quality translated documents, (in any language) while doing research. Do you know if this is a major problem in the study of global environmental politics?" I'm with Ron -- where I've run into the problem most (and have had to simply eliminate some cases from a database) is regional treaties in languages like Czech that I can't speak. I'm sure there are articles in other languages that would be useful if I could access them in translation, but if I don't know the languages I may not even be aware that they exist, so I don't know what I'm missing. Beth
Re: Translation of non-English documents
"Simon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on Thursday, April 13, 2006 at 10:10 AM -0500 wrote: >I'm doing a project for a spanish translation class that i am in and I >was wondering how frequently you are faced with a lack of translated >documents, or quality translated documents, (in any language) while doing >research. Do you know if this is a major problem in the study of global >environmental politics?" I'm with Ron -- where I've run into the problem most (and have had to simply eliminate some cases from a database) is regional treaties in languages like Czech that I can't speak. I'm sure there are articles in other languages that would be useful if I could access them in translation, but if I don't know the languages I may not even be aware that they exist, so I don't know what I'm missing. Beth
Re: Translation of non-English documents
Simon and Kirsten, Lack of translated documents poses some problems in my own efforts to identify (and collect and code the texts of) all international environmental treaties. In most cases, there is an English translation (which of course means problems for those who don't speak English but not for those who do). However, agreements between countries none of whom use English as a primary language are often hard to find, let alone read. Thus, an agreement between Russia, Kazakhstan, and Ukraine might well not have an English version. One small example, Ron PS: http://iea.uoregon.edu/ for the database of intl envl agreements At 07:10 AM 4/13/2006, Simon wrote: --> Hi all -- a student of mine sent me this question this morning: I'm doing a project for a spanish translation class that i am in and I was wondering how frequently you are faced with a lack of translated documents, or quality translated documents, (in any language) while doing research. Do you know if this is a major problem in the study of global environmental politics?" Any thoughts? Thanks, Simon Simon Nicholson Ph.D. Candidate School of International Service American University 4400 Massachusetts Avenue, NW Washington DC 20016 Ronald Mitchell, Professor Department of Political Science University of Oregon Eugene OR 97403-1284 Phone: 541-346-4880/Fax: 541-346-4860 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.uoregon.edu/~rmitchel/ International Environmental Agreements Database: http://iea.uoregon.edu/ Dissertations Initiative for the Advancement of Climate-Change (DISCCRS): http://www.aslo.org/phd/disccrsposter.pdf
Translation of non-English documents
Hi all -- a student of mine sent me this question this morning: “I'm doing a project for a spanish translation class that i am in and I was wondering how frequently you are faced with a lack of translated documents, or quality translated documents, (in any language) while doing research. Do you know if this is a major problem in the study of global environmental politics?" Any thoughts? Thanks, Simon Simon Nicholson Ph.D. Candidate School of International Service American University 4400 Massachusetts Avenue, NW Washington DC 20016
