Re: Paywall for iPlayer?
On 07/07/2015 12:31, Graham Temple (gmail) wrote: Yes but what about people who never ever watch TV at all. They have computers and internet, but why should they pay a charge for something they will never use, just because they have some equipment (whose primary purpose is not for accessing TV!) which theoretically could access on demand content. Seems technically pretty simple, and given the draconian anti-privacy laws we already have here I don't think much legislation would be required to ignore the current data protection laws. If you access the iPlayer website the date/time and your IP address is captured by the BBC. The IP address is mapped to an ISP, and an API request is made to that ISP to determine the corresponding house address. TVL checks whether the house address has a licence, and if it doesn't you get an automatic reminder to pay up. Allow three automatic strikes per year for accidentally reaching an iP web page and then you have to justify why you don't have a licence but are looking at iP. For anyone who has an IP address that cannot be validated you might have to log in and/or enter your TV Licence number. A persistent cookie (etc.) could be offered to remove the need to log in each time. Chris smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Paywall for iPlayer?
In article 017301d0b8c5$719850a0$54c8f1e0$@gmail.com, Graham Temple \(gmail\) graham.j.tem...@gmail.com wrote: RFL and fuel duty fund far more than roads, so none of your general taxation pays for roads, quite the opposite. Now look deeper. I don't directly pay RFL or FDF because I don't own or run a car. But I *do* pay for the roads via them. This is because the costs I have to pay when, say, I buy food in the shops that were transported by road will include this. In a similar way people who object to the BBC License as a 'tax' and trot out those who never watch the BBC often don't go on to consider that we all pay for more for 'commercial' TV than for the BBC because we pay for it via the goods we buy in shops. Chances are when you buy a packet of biscuits or a frozen chicken you're paying for ITV, etc. By deciding not to watch any TV you can opt out of the TV license. But you'll still pay for the commercial advertising/sponsored TV or radio. Most of which you won't watch or hear. So I do pay for the roads, just as I pay for commercial TV stations like the ITV setup that I hardly ever watch. Just as most of us do. Alas, I can't get a lower price in the supermarket by saying at the checkout, I don't watch commercial TV, so deduct the amount that goes to advertising from the price. Curiously, people who complain about the license fee rarely seem to know or care that they have little choice but to pay for commercial TV which they may never watch. But then newspapers for some odd reason don't seem to mention this as often as the stir the pot over the license fee. I wonder why... 8-] Jim -- Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Paywall for iPlayer?
On 07/07/2015 13:40, michael norman wrote: On 07/07/2015 01:17 PM, Owen Smith wrote: I have no children so don't use schools, but I still pay for them and am happy to do so. I regard the BBC as being on the same footing, everyone in the UK should pay for it. I think that's called civilization and society. Agree with you both. Alan ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Re: Paywall for iPlayer?
On Mon, 06 Jul 2015 20:29:44 +, batguano999 wrote: You have broadband and a computer / 'smart' sic TV. Egro, you are equipped to access iplayer, thus require a license. Hmmm That's a computer license then. :-) Too restrictive a description, unless you want to keep the lawyers fat arguing about the semantics of the word computer. The Dutch have a Media Licence. TBH I very happy that the licence will now apply to on demand content. Without that the BBC's income was set on a, possibly quite rapid, down ward direction as more and more people either cotton on or genuinely, never, ever, watch TV as it is being broadcast. -- Cheers Dave. ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Paywall for iPlayer?
In article 559ae65c.8040...@gmail.com, michael norman michaeltnor...@gmail.com wrote: Forgive me but how does this help us with the present attitude of our rulers towards the BBC. All I said was that they are ideologically opposed to public service, thats not a conspiracy theory its what they are doing and intend to do. Defending and advancing the interests of media owners who are mainly non doms. All of which is a matter of public record. I also got bored years ago with the largely vacuous arguments about the BBC being 'biassed' that crop up all over newsgroups related to TV, etc. Most such assertions really just show that the BBC don't share the bias of the complainer. *Every* UK government thinks the BBC is biassed against them. They are *supposed* to challenge power and call it to account. And 'balance' doesn't mean during every single programme, but overall. The real problem is that the BBC's news and current affairs programming on TV has got shallower and shallower, and more and more into the presenter trying to 'point score' in uni debating club ways to promote their own importance and that of their programme. It isn't 'bias' but the lack of any real thought or knowledge and instead going for short sharp shallow interviews, etc. Interestingly, the coverage on BBC Radio4 when it comes to the investigation programmes is often much more considered and informed than on 'Today' or on TV. Presumably because they don't use 'star' presenters who need to maintain their image, and have a small budget to spend on the actual content rather than flying people about, filiming, etc, etc. They can also take time to find out things and think about them rather than do one 2-min item after another. Also interesting that those like the 'Today' teams never seem to actually listen to the investigation programmes that are also on R4. Presumably they have something better to do. 8-] The main concern here is the way the BBC has hemorraged reporters, investigators, engineers, etc, over the years. Hundreds have gone. It has been easy to point at all the layers of management and the birtspeak. But muscle has gone as well as fat. In itself, this has pushed survivors into wanting to keep coming up with new titbits as often and as quickly as they can to show they are busy. Hence the concern about the clear agenda of the current government which may make it even harder for the BBC to produce genuine investigative work, etc. Now back to gip... :-) I used it this morning to fetch the Parliament 'Home Office Questions' from yesterday as it seems the annoucements/questions on the BBC were tacked onto that. Interesting that BBC Parliament seems in one way like R3. The program running times/durations vary all over the place as 'live events' don't always keep to the clock. 8-] Jim -- Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
RE: Paywall for iPlayer?
On Tue, 7 Jul 2015 15:52:02 +0100, Graham Temple \(gmail\) wrote: TV should not be funded by a licence fee, but by direct grant from the government, funded by general taxation. Good grief we then effectively have a state controlled broadcaster. Is that what you really want? The licence may be flawed but it keeps the government at arms length from the BBC. -- Cheers Dave. ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Paywall for iPlayer?
Well do you know what Dave, nothing you or I think or do will make one scrap of difference so I'm bowing out of this discussion. Thanks for your points. Cheers GT Sent from my BlackBerry. Original Message From: Dave Liquorice Sent: Tuesday, 7 July 2015 16:11 To: get_iplayer Reply To: Dave Liquorice Subject: RE: Paywall for iPlayer? On Tue, 7 Jul 2015 15:52:02 +0100, Graham Temple \(gmail\) wrote: TV should not be funded by a licence fee, but by direct grant from the government, funded by general taxation. Good grief we then effectively have a state controlled broadcaster. Is that what you really want? The licence may be flawed but it keeps the government at arms length from the BBC. -- Cheers Dave. ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Paywall for iPlayer?
On 07/07/2015 04:08 PM, Dave Liquorice wrote: On Tue, 7 Jul 2015 15:52:02 +0100, Graham Temple \(gmail\) wrote: TV should not be funded by a licence fee, but by direct grant from the government, funded by general taxation. Good grief we then effectively have a state controlled broadcaster. Is that what you really want? The licence may be flawed but it keeps the government at arms length from the BBC. Assuming as I do, the licence fee is the best way to fund the bbc how can we solve the iplayer problem ? Mike ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Paywall for iPlayer?
I have no children so don't use schools, but I still pay for them and am happy to do so. I regard the BBC as being on the same footing, everyone in the UK should pay for it. -- Owen Smith owen.sm...@cantab.net Cambridge, UK On 7 Jul 2015, at 12:31, Graham Temple (gmail) graham.j.tem...@gmail.com wrote: Yes but what about people who never ever watch TV at all. There are some, believe it or not - my parents for instance. They have computers and internet, but why should they pay a charge for something they will never use, just because they have some equipment (whose primary purpose is not for accessing TV!) which theoretically could access on demand content. How will you differentiate between those who don't and those who say they don't? It is like saying you own a car and live in London so will probably use the Dartford crossing and enter the congestion zone, so we are going to add £50 a year to your road fund licence and do away with the congestion charges and tolls. -Original Message- From: get_iplayer [mailto:get_iplayer-boun...@lists.infradead.org] On Behalf Of Dave Liquorice Sent: 07 July 2015 09:06 To: get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org Subject: Re: Re: Paywall for iPlayer? On Mon, 06 Jul 2015 20:29:44 +, batguano999 wrote: You have broadband and a computer / 'smart' sic TV. Egro, you are equipped to access iplayer, thus require a license. Hmmm That's a computer license then. :-) Too restrictive a description, unless you want to keep the lawyers fat arguing about the semantics of the word computer. The Dutch have a Media Licence. TBH I very happy that the licence will now apply to on demand content. Without that the BBC's income was set on a, possibly quite rapid, down ward direction as more and more people either cotton on or genuinely, never, ever, watch TV as it is being broadcast. -- Cheers Dave. ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Paywall for iPlayer?
On 07/07/2015 12:31 PM, Graham Temple (gmail) wrote: Yes but what about people who never ever watch TV at all. There are some, believe it or not - my parents for instance. They have computers and internet, but why should they pay a charge for something they will never use, just because they have some equipment (whose primary purpose is not for accessing TV!) which theoretically could access on demand content. How will you differentiate between those who don't and those who say they don't? It is like saying you own a car and live in London so will probably use the Dartford crossing and enter the congestion zone, so we are going to add £50 a year to your road fund licence and do away with the congestion charges and tolls. That's the problem. There are many people mostly I guess a bit younger than your parents who don't watch live tv or even want to do so. What do they watch ? Netflix Amazon tv (to give two examples amongst many) both of which they have to pay for and if you compare the price of those two is rather more than the BBC license fee. If they want free as in not paying for it then there is Youtube. I don't know how anybody might remodel the licence fee to cover that. Not least because its impossible to know the numbers involved. Personally I am quite happy to pay £12 a month for the BBC content. Its the biggest bargain in the world, whether I choose to access it from a tv a pc or any other device. Which is why Murdoch et al want it hobbled and ultimately destroyed. Mike ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Paywall for iPlayer?
On 07/07/2015 01:17 PM, Owen Smith wrote: I have no children so don't use schools, but I still pay for them and am happy to do so. I regard the BBC as being on the same footing, everyone in the UK should pay for it. I think that's called civilization and society. ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Paywall for iPlayer?
On Tue, 07 Jul 2015 13:06:38 +0100, michael norman wrote: Yes but what about people who never ever watch TV at all. There are some, believe it or not - my parents for instance. They have computers and internet, but why should they pay a charge for something they will never use, That is a problem but sort of worked around if you call it a Media Licence that is it gives the household the ability to legally view any media from any source. Be that Netflix, 4OD, YouTube or, at the extreme, the graphics/still images that make up a web page. just because they have some equipment (whose primary purpose is not for accessing TV!) which theoretically could access on demand content. It's not that long ago that the possession of receiving apparatus was enough to trigger the requirement to hold a TV Licence. How will you differentiate between those who don't and those who say they don't? Just get the ISPs to report those customers that access media sites? Or just extend the current regulations relating to copyright infringement. There are many people mostly I guess a bit younger than your parents who don't watch live tv or even want to do so. What do they watch ? Netflix Amazon tv (to give two examples amongst many) both of which they have to pay for But at least that is their choice. I don't watch commercial TV stations but I still pay for them and the shareholder dividends etc, even those that don't have any ability to watch any TV still pay. -- Cheers Dave. ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
RE: Re: Paywall for iPlayer?
Yes but what about people who never ever watch TV at all. There are some, believe it or not - my parents for instance. They have computers and internet, but why should they pay a charge for something they will never use, just because they have some equipment (whose primary purpose is not for accessing TV!) which theoretically could access on demand content. How will you differentiate between those who don't and those who say they don't? It is like saying you own a car and live in London so will probably use the Dartford crossing and enter the congestion zone, so we are going to add £50 a year to your road fund licence and do away with the congestion charges and tolls. -Original Message- From: get_iplayer [mailto:get_iplayer-boun...@lists.infradead.org] On Behalf Of Dave Liquorice Sent: 07 July 2015 09:06 To: get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org Subject: Re: Re: Paywall for iPlayer? On Mon, 06 Jul 2015 20:29:44 +, batguano999 wrote: You have broadband and a computer / 'smart' sic TV. Egro, you are equipped to access iplayer, thus require a license. Hmmm That's a computer license then. :-) Too restrictive a description, unless you want to keep the lawyers fat arguing about the semantics of the word computer. The Dutch have a Media Licence. TBH I very happy that the licence will now apply to on demand content. Without that the BBC's income was set on a, possibly quite rapid, down ward direction as more and more people either cotton on or genuinely, never, ever, watch TV as it is being broadcast. -- Cheers Dave. ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Paywall for iPlayer?
On 07/07/2015 01:39 PM, Dave Liquorice wrote: On Tue, 07 Jul 2015 13:06:38 +0100, michael norman wrote: Yes but what about people who never ever watch TV at all. There are some, believe it or not - my parents for instance. They have computers and internet, but why should they pay a charge for something they will never use, That is a problem but sort of worked around if you call it a Media Licence that is it gives the household the ability to legally view any media from any source. Be that Netflix, 4OD, YouTube or, at the extreme, the graphics/still images that make up a web page. Yes I have bt youview which includes all the catch up stuff I have a Netflix account anyway but would have to pay for it if I wanted to watch it on Youview So leaving to one side the licence fee I'm paying for the BT tv package and didn't want BBC content ? What then ? Just get the ISPs to report those customers that access media sites? Or just extend the current regulations relating to copyright infringement. What, after ISPs have been asked to give up all their data to spooks already ? Current regulations about copyright and intellectual property are a mess. Most if not all were designed before digital happened. The only people who will make money out of any of that are Lawyers. Politicians don't have a clue. Mike ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Paywall for iPlayer?
In article 011501d0b8a8$7e46f3a0$7ad4dae0$@gmail.com, Graham Temple \(gmail\) graham.j.tem...@gmail.com wrote: Yes but what about people who never ever watch TV at all. There are some, believe it or not - my parents for instance. They have computers and internet, but why should they pay a charge for something they will never use, just because they have some equipment (whose primary purpose is not for accessing TV!) which theoretically could access on demand content. The flaw in that argument is that we *all* benefit when the BBC produce informative programmes. Even if someone didn't see/hear it, others will be able to correct their ignorance when they express it. :-) How will you differentiate between those who don't and those who say they don't? It is like saying you own a car and live in London so will probably use the Dartford crossing and enter the congestion zone, so we are going to add £50 a year to your road fund licence and do away with the congestion charges and tolls. Erm.. You may have missed the fact that kind of thing happens anyway. :-) I have no car, but I don't doubt that a lot of the my income has gone to pay for the roads, etc. That seems fair to me when I eat food that was taken to/from the shops in lorries, etc. I have no children (that I'm aware of 8-]) but I'm happy that money taken from me has been used to educate those around me - at least it did in some cases. ;- As yet I've also never had to stay in Hospital, but I may need one sometime. You may also be glossing over the fact that BBC radio is paid for out of the fee, even if it was decided not to require one. Jim -Original Message- From: get_iplayer [mailto:get_iplayer-boun...@lists.infradead.org] On Behalf Of Dave Liquorice Sent: 07 July 2015 09:06 To: get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org Subject: Re: Re: Paywall for iPlayer? On Mon, 06 Jul 2015 20:29:44 +, batguano999 wrote: You have broadband and a computer / 'smart' sic TV. Egro, you are equipped to access iplayer, thus require a license. Hmmm That's a computer license then. :-) Too restrictive a description, unless you want to keep the lawyers fat arguing about the semantics of the word computer. The Dutch have a Media Licence. TBH I very happy that the licence will now apply to on demand content. Without that the BBC's income was set on a, possibly quite rapid, down ward direction as more and more people either cotton on or genuinely, never, ever, watch TV as it is being broadcast. -- Cheers Dave. ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer -- Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
RE: Paywall for iPlayer?
RFL and fuel duty fund far more than roads, so none of your general taxation pays for roads, quite the opposite. Schools and hospitals are funded from general taxation (not even the NHS is linked to the NI anymore) and if you think the BBC is on a par with hospitals and schools, it also be funded from general taxation not a licence fee. Problem solved. -Original Message- From: get_iplayer [mailto:get_iplayer-boun...@lists.infradead.org] On Behalf Of Jim web Sent: 07 July 2015 13:03 To: 'Dave Liquorice'; get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org Subject: Re: Paywall for iPlayer? In article 011501d0b8a8$7e46f3a0$7ad4dae0$@gmail.com, Graham Temple \(gmail\) graham.j.tem...@gmail.com wrote: Yes but what about people who never ever watch TV at all. There are some, believe it or not - my parents for instance. They have computers and internet, but why should they pay a charge for something they will never use, just because they have some equipment (whose primary purpose is not for accessing TV!) which theoretically could access on demand content. The flaw in that argument is that we *all* benefit when the BBC produce informative programmes. Even if someone didn't see/hear it, others will be able to correct their ignorance when they express it. :-) How will you differentiate between those who don't and those who say they don't? It is like saying you own a car and live in London so will probably use the Dartford crossing and enter the congestion zone, so we are going to add £50 a year to your road fund licence and do away with the congestion charges and tolls. Erm.. You may have missed the fact that kind of thing happens anyway. :-) I have no car, but I don't doubt that a lot of the my income has gone to pay for the roads, etc. That seems fair to me when I eat food that was taken to/from the shops in lorries, etc. I have no children (that I'm aware of 8-]) but I'm happy that money taken from me has been used to educate those around me - at least it did in some cases. ;- As yet I've also never had to stay in Hospital, but I may need one sometime. You may also be glossing over the fact that BBC radio is paid for out of the fee, even if it was decided not to require one. Jim -Original Message- From: get_iplayer [mailto:get_iplayer-boun...@lists.infradead.org] On Behalf Of Dave Liquorice Sent: 07 July 2015 09:06 To: get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org Subject: Re: Re: Paywall for iPlayer? On Mon, 06 Jul 2015 20:29:44 +, batguano999 wrote: You have broadband and a computer / 'smart' sic TV. Egro, you are equipped to access iplayer, thus require a license. Hmmm That's a computer license then. :-) Too restrictive a description, unless you want to keep the lawyers fat arguing about the semantics of the word computer. The Dutch have a Media Licence. TBH I very happy that the licence will now apply to on demand content. Without that the BBC's income was set on a, possibly quite rapid, down ward direction as more and more people either cotton on or genuinely, never, ever, watch TV as it is being broadcast. -- Cheers Dave. ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer -- Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
RE: Paywall for iPlayer?
You prove my point. TV should not be funded by a licence fee, but by direct grant from the government, funded by general taxation. No other tax is directly related any more, not even NI for the NHS. That is what the licence fee would be if all had to pay it specifically. We don't have a schools tax, fuel duty and RFL pay for far more than roads etc, etc. GT -Original Message- From: get_iplayer [mailto:get_iplayer-boun...@lists.infradead.org] On Behalf Of Owen Smith Sent: 07 July 2015 13:18 To: get_iplayer Subject: Re: Paywall for iPlayer? I have no children so don't use schools, but I still pay for them and am happy to do so. I regard the BBC as being on the same footing, everyone in the UK should pay for it. -- Owen Smith owen.sm...@cantab.net Cambridge, UK On 7 Jul 2015, at 12:31, Graham Temple (gmail) graham.j.tem...@gmail.com wrote: Yes but what about people who never ever watch TV at all. There are some, believe it or not - my parents for instance. They have computers and internet, but why should they pay a charge for something they will never use, just because they have some equipment (whose primary purpose is not for accessing TV!) which theoretically could access on demand content. How will you differentiate between those who don't and those who say they don't? It is like saying you own a car and live in London so will probably use the Dartford crossing and enter the congestion zone, so we are going to add £50 a year to your road fund licence and do away with the congestion charges and tolls. -Original Message- From: get_iplayer [mailto:get_iplayer-boun...@lists.infradead.org] On Behalf Of Dave Liquorice Sent: 07 July 2015 09:06 To: get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org Subject: Re: Re: Paywall for iPlayer? On Mon, 06 Jul 2015 20:29:44 +, batguano999 wrote: You have broadband and a computer / 'smart' sic TV. Egro, you are equipped to access iplayer, thus require a license. Hmmm That's a computer license then. :-) Too restrictive a description, unless you want to keep the lawyers fat arguing about the semantics of the word computer. The Dutch have a Media Licence. TBH I very happy that the licence will now apply to on demand content. Without that the BBC's income was set on a, possibly quite rapid, down ward direction as more and more people either cotton on or genuinely, never, ever, watch TV as it is being broadcast. -- Cheers Dave. ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Re: Paywall for iPlayer?
On Tue, Jul 07, 2015 at 12:31:39PM +0100, Graham Temple (gmail) wrote: Yes but what about people who never ever watch TV at all. There are some, believe it or not - my parents for instance. They have computers and internet, but why should they pay a charge for something they will never use, just because they have some equipment (whose primary purpose is not for accessing TV!) which theoretically could access on demand content. How will you differentiate between those who don't and those who say they don't? It is like saying you own a car and live in London so will probably use the Dartford crossing and enter the congestion zone, so we are going to add £50 a year to your road fund licence and do away with the congestion charges and tolls. Next thing you know my taxes will be used to support unemployed people in Wigan, despite me not being unemployed, never having been to Wigan, and certainly never intending to be unemployed in Wigan. -- David Cantrell | Enforcer, South London Linguistic Massive There is no one true indentation style, But if there were KR would be Its Prophets. Peace be upon Their Holy Beards. ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Paywall for iPlayer?
The problem with paying from the BBC out of general taxation is it would be an easy target for government cuts. There would be nothing left even faster than is happening now. -- Owen Smith owen.sm...@cantab.net Cambridge, UK On 7 Jul 2015, at 15:52, Graham Temple (gmail) graham.j.tem...@gmail.com wrote: You prove my point. TV should not be funded by a licence fee, but by direct grant from the government, funded by general taxation. No other tax is directly related any more, not even NI for the NHS. That is what the licence fee would be if all had to pay it specifically. We don't have a schools tax, fuel duty and RFL pay for far more than roads etc, etc. GT -Original Message- From: get_iplayer [mailto:get_iplayer-boun...@lists.infradead.org] On Behalf Of Owen Smith Sent: 07 July 2015 13:18 To: get_iplayer Subject: Re: Paywall for iPlayer? I have no children so don't use schools, but I still pay for them and am happy to do so. I regard the BBC as being on the same footing, everyone in the UK should pay for it. -- Owen Smith owen.sm...@cantab.net Cambridge, UK On 7 Jul 2015, at 12:31, Graham Temple (gmail) graham.j.tem...@gmail.com wrote: Yes but what about people who never ever watch TV at all. There are some, believe it or not - my parents for instance. They have computers and internet, but why should they pay a charge for something they will never use, just because they have some equipment (whose primary purpose is not for accessing TV!) which theoretically could access on demand content. How will you differentiate between those who don't and those who say they don't? It is like saying you own a car and live in London so will probably use the Dartford crossing and enter the congestion zone, so we are going to add £50 a year to your road fund licence and do away with the congestion charges and tolls. -Original Message- From: get_iplayer [mailto:get_iplayer-boun...@lists.infradead.org] On Behalf Of Dave Liquorice Sent: 07 July 2015 09:06 To: get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org Subject: Re: Re: Paywall for iPlayer? On Mon, 06 Jul 2015 20:29:44 +, batguano999 wrote: You have broadband and a computer / 'smart' sic TV. Egro, you are equipped to access iplayer, thus require a license. Hmmm That's a computer license then. :-) Too restrictive a description, unless you want to keep the lawyers fat arguing about the semantics of the word computer. The Dutch have a Media Licence. TBH I very happy that the licence will now apply to on demand content. Without that the BBC's income was set on a, possibly quite rapid, down ward direction as more and more people either cotton on or genuinely, never, ever, watch TV as it is being broadcast. -- Cheers Dave. ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Paywall for iPlayer?
Some more analysis: http://www.thinkbroadband.com/news/7034-will-budget-result-in-having-to-pay-for-bbc-iplayer.html ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Paywall for iPlayer?
In article CANGN4UPV=DTYdAwn=_crsnpakuqf+z6lfb87yjk69qywby-...@mail.gmail.com, Shevek she...@shevek.co.uk wrote: Some more analysis: http://www.thinkbroadband.com/news/7034-will-budget-result-in-having-to-pay-for-bbc-iplayer.html Personally, I'm happy to pay for iplayer access. Although I'd *prefer* that to be done via an extension (in legal terms) to requiring you buy a 'TV license'. So either covered by the UK license, and/or offerring a 'BBC iplayer license' for those outside the UK. The BBC needs to be funded to make the programmes, etc. The worry is if any system is limited in a way I'd find unreasonable. e.g. Only providing access by using a method that *only* works for a limited set of OSs like Windows/Mac. i.e. excluding the choice of Linux or other 'minority' preferences. Similar for anything that limits choice of software to some 'approved' closed source items on a magic list. And of course, radio doesn't require a license as things stand, even in the UK. Jim -- Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Paywall for iPlayer?
On 07/06/2015 12:08 PM, Jim web wrote: In article CANGN4UPV=DTYdAwn=_crsnpakuqf+z6lfb87yjk69qywby-...@mail.gmail.com, Shevek she...@shevek.co.uk wrote: Some more analysis: http://www.thinkbroadband.com/news/7034-will-budget-result-in-having-to-pay-for-bbc-iplayer.html Personally, I'm happy to pay for iplayer access. Although I'd *prefer* that to be done via an extension (in legal terms) to requiring you buy a 'TV license'. So either covered by the UK license, and/or offerring a 'BBC iplayer license' for those outside the UK. The BBC needs to be funded to make the programmes, etc. The worry is if any system is limited in a way I'd find unreasonable. e.g. Only providing access by using a method that *only* works for a limited set of OSs like Windows/Mac. i.e. excluding the choice of Linux or other 'minority' preferences. Similar for anything that limits choice of software to some 'approved' closed source items on a magic list. And of course, radio doesn't require a license as things stand, even in the UK. Jim Jim A wider view perhaps from The Guardian http://www.theguardian.com/media/2015/jul/05/bbc-cuts-job-losses-revenue-shortfall What happens to the BBC now will be interesting now the vandals are getting their hands on it. I hope Hewlett is right that the BBC can find a way to limit the damage. In the context of iPlayer I'd be happy to pay for it, but I am anyway. The issue is how do you make others who don't buy a tv licence pay for it too. Nobody knows how many such people there might be. The BBC solution would obviously be to expand the terms of the tv licence to cover such people. I don't think that is going to happen, So that would leave, if iPlayer continues to a subscription service, which again would be the start of death of the BBC licence fee, And you get another limited platform service like Netflix, which would probably lead to its privatisation to compete in the market. Enjoy it while you can. Mike ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Paywall for iPlayer?
On 06 July 2015 at 20:42 Owen Smith owen.sm...@cantab.net wrote: You think the BBC is left wing. I happen to think they have a right wing bias. That's the problem for a broadcaster trying to do real news, whichever government is in power will hate the BBC for pointing out various things the government does wrong. So the BBC will die by a thousand cuts over the next 30 years, as the pressure from Murdoch funded (legally) MPs means something is taken from the BBC at every General Election. I don't know if it's institutionally left wing, as I haven't been worked there for over 30 years. What I do know is that even then it was seen as odd to say that you didn't support labour. I suspect that it's no better, and probably worse, now. It's not why I left, but it certainly didn't make me feel wanted. ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Paywall for iPlayer?
Rather than promote conspiracy theories about non doms and media owners. direct your ire at the one eyed Scotch loon and his party who bribed electors with taxpayers' money. ___ Oh dear this is really getting OT But just asking who the one eyed Scotch loon might be ? ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Paywall for iPlayer?
On 07/06/2015 09:13 PM, TQ wrote: On 06 July 2015 at 21:04 michael norman michaeltnor...@gmail.com wrote: Rather than promote conspiracy theories about non doms and media owners. direct your ire at the one eyed Scotch loon and his party who bribed electors with taxpayers' money. ___ Oh dear this is really getting OT But just asking who the one eyed Scotch loon might be ? Mad Jock McBroon - the man who was so deluded that he claimed to have abolished boom and bust Ok Gordon Brown. Forgive me but how does this help us with the present attitude of our rulers towards the BBC. All I said was that they are ideologically opposed to public service, thats not a conspiracy theory its what they are doing and intend to do. Defending and advancing the interests of media owners who are mainly non doms. All of which is a matter of public record. Osbourne has made it quite plain what his agenda is, most recently on the Andrew Marr show on BBC last Sunday. On the public record. Mike ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Paywall for iPlayer?
On 07/06/2015 09:47 PM, Alan Milewczyk wrote: Can we please keep party politics off the list? I could quite happily bore everyone senseless with my political rants but I'm sure you wouldn't want that! Alan ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer If that’s directed at me two points : I was trying to make the point about the political threat the BBC faces in the context of this list the threat to iPlayer. I don't see how you can separate that from a political discussion. Whether that is beyond the scope of this list, I don't know. Given that the subject of the future of iPlayer was raised here I tried to add a political context. What I did not do is declare any support for any party. I am a member of none. My political beliefs are mine and are nothing to do with this list. Mike ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Paywall for iPlayer?
On 06 July 2015 at 21:04 michael norman michaeltnor...@gmail.com wrote: Rather than promote conspiracy theories about non doms and media owners. direct your ire at the one eyed Scotch loon and his party who bribed electors with taxpayers' money. ___ Oh dear this is really getting OT But just asking who the one eyed Scotch loon might be ? Mad Jock McBroon - the man who was so deluded that he claimed to have abolished boom and bust -- TQ via webmail ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Paywall for iPlayer?
On 6 Jul 2015 at 20:18, Nic Siddle Nic Siddle nicsid...@gmail.com wrote: and isn't it odd that the supposed savings to the government of the proposed requirement of the BBC to fund licences for the over 75's just happens to be the cost of a single licence multiplied by the number of over 75's? i.e., according to the Government, all over 75s live singly and independently and all want to watch TV? This is the government doing the bidding of our non-dom newspaper and media owners. I believe the cost figure is what the Treasury is paying TV Licensing based on the invoices received from TVL. Much the same as bus companies invoice for free travel for oldies. Furthermore, I'm sure there is a lot of abuse of the system where one member of an over 75 couple will allow a friend/relative to use their right to a free license. Rather than promote conspiracy theories about non doms and media owners. direct your ire at the one eyed Scotch loon and his party who bribed electors with taxpayers' money. ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Re: Paywall for iPlayer?
On 06 July 2015 at 21:29 batguano999 batguano...@zoho.com wrote: You have broadband and a computer / 'smart' sic TV. Egro, you are equipped to access iplayer, thus require a license. Hmmm That's a computer license then. :-) From the ministry of housinge? -- TQ via webmail ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Paywall for iPlayer?
Can we please keep party politics off the list? I could quite happily bore everyone senseless with my political rants but I'm sure you wouldn't want that! Alan ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Re: Paywall for iPlayer?
You have broadband and a computer / 'smart' sic TV. Egro, you are equipped to access iplayer, thus require a license. Hmmm That's a computer license then. :-) ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Paywall for iPlayer?
On 06/07/2015 13:20, michael norman wrote: On 07/06/2015 12:08 PM, Jim web wrote: In article CANGN4UPV=DTYdAwn=_crsnpakuqf+z6lfb87yjk69qywby-...@mail.gmail.com, Shevek she...@shevek.co.uk wrote: Some more analysis: http://www.thinkbroadband.com/news/7034-will-budget-result-in-having-to-pay-for-bbc-iplayer.html Personally, I'm happy to pay for iplayer access. Although I'd *prefer* that to be done via an extension (in legal terms) to requiring you buy a 'TV license'. So either covered by the UK license, and/or offerring a 'BBC iplayer license' for those outside the UK. The BBC needs to be funded to make the programmes, etc. The worry is if any system is limited in a way I'd find unreasonable. e.g. Only providing access by using a method that *only* works for a limited set of OSs like Windows/Mac. i.e. excluding the choice of Linux or other 'minority' preferences. Similar for anything that limits choice of software to some 'approved' closed source items on a magic list. And of course, radio doesn't require a license as things stand, even in the UK. Jim Jim A wider view perhaps from The Guardian http://www.theguardian.com/media/2015/jul/05/bbc-cuts-job-losses-revenue-shortfall What happens to the BBC now will be interesting now the vandals are getting their hands on it. I hope Hewlett is right that the BBC can find a way to limit the damage. In the context of iPlayer I'd be happy to pay for it, but I am anyway. The issue is how do you make others who don't buy a tv licence pay for it too. Nobody knows how many such people there might be. The BBC solution would obviously be to expand the terms of the tv licence to cover such people. I don't think that is going to happen, So that would leave, if iPlayer continues to a subscription service, which again would be the start of death of the BBC licence fee, And you get another limited platform service like Netflix, which would probably lead to its privatisation to compete in the market. Enjoy it while you can. Mike Some real anti-BBC comments being posted on the forums. While I think the BBC can be pretty arrogant as an organisation (for example when dealing with complaints) I'm a great supporter of PBS broadcasting and I think the range and quality of programmes produced by the Corporation is just astounding, especially when compared to some of the dross put out by the Commercial channels. Having spent a fair bit of time abroad in recent years, I've not come across a broadcaster which can even come close to rivalling the BBC whether it's radio or TV. I've never had any dealings with the BBC other than as a viewer so I cannot comment on whether it's top-heavy with management, etc. For me, the licence fee is excellent value for money - not a day goes by without me referring to the BBC website, reading news etc, ditto listening to radio and viewing TV. And the iPlayer is now providing the type of TV I dreamed about 20 years ago (knocking spots off ITV's offering) and, of course, get_iplayer is an invaluable bolt-on. I do think the loophole that allows viewers to watch TV output online (as long as it's not live) does need to be plugged. I'm more than happy to pay the licence fee and would hate any move towards subscriptions fees whether it's for TV or iPlayer access, equally I would be against any move to make any of the BBC channels to carry commercials. Alan ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Paywall for iPlayer?
Mike Some real anti-BBC comments being posted on the forums. While I think the BBC can be pretty arrogant as an organisation (for example when dealing with complaints) I'm a great supporter of PBS broadcasting and I think the range and quality of programmes produced by the Corporation is just astounding, especially when compared to some of the dross put out by the Commercial channels. Having spent a fair bit of time abroad in recent years, I've not come across a broadcaster which can even come close to rivalling the BBC whether it's radio or TV. I've never had any dealings with the BBC other than as a viewer so I cannot comment on whether it's top-heavy with management, etc. For me, the licence fee is excellent value for money - not a day goes by without me referring to the BBC website, reading news etc, ditto listening to radio and viewing TV. And the iPlayer is now providing the type of TV I dreamed about 20 years ago (knocking spots off ITV's offering) and, of course, get_iplayer is an invaluable bolt-on. I do think the loophole that allows viewers to watch TV output online (as long as it's not live) does need to be plugged. I'm more than happy to pay the licence fee and would hate any move towards subscriptions fees whether it's for TV or iPlayer access, equally I would be against any move to make any of the BBC channels to carry commercials. Alan Agreed, fortunately without having had to experience being abroad without the BBC. The crucial point I was trying to make in the context of this list was and is how does the bbc plug what they perceive as the iPlayer gap. Its ironic that iPlayer is streets ahead technically of all the other catch up services, particularly ITVs offering, aside from anything about quality content the BBC started the whole thing and have made it work. What happens next ? I don't know, I fear the worst. Mike ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
RE: Paywall for iPlayer?
equally I would be against any move to make any of the BBC channels to carry commercials. I agree, we visited Canada recently and I am amazed anyone watches TV live there. Basically the channels primarily carry adverts with odd bits of programmes shown occasionally. It made trying to watch anything completely unbearable. Would hate that to happen over here. ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Paywall for iPlayer?
Try the U.S. for a few years if you want to see what happens to a society when there is no functioning media. UGH. No real TV, awful radio (NPR is a joke - so amateur) and no newspapers. Even their good programmes are dire beyond belief - make C5 seen elitist. As a BBC 2, BBC 4, Radio 4 addict, I feel I get excellent value from the Beeb. Frankly I can put up with some heavy handedness over the Fox-ification of media. It is the greedy Hollywood studios that are reasonable for the current malaise in broadcasting and the rights/payments issues, not the Beeb. Of course, present government are aping the Americans (foolishly, IMvHO - common mistake Brits make is to think we are more like America than Europe because of the language, but it's a wrong assumption - our ethos is far more European) so I fear for all of our public services in the name of a quick buck at the hands of PR men like Cameron. D Sent from my iPhone On 6 Jul 2015, at 09:48, George Eycott geo...@eycott.co.uk wrote: equally I would be against any move to make any of the BBC channels to carry commercials. I agree, we visited Canada recently and I am amazed anyone watches TV live there. Basically the channels primarily carry adverts with odd bits of programmes shown occasionally. It made trying to watch anything completely unbearable. Would hate that to happen over here. ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Paywall for iPlayer?
and isn't it odd that the supposed savings to the government of the proposed requirement of the BBC to fund licences for the over 75's just happens to be the cost of a single licence multiplied by the number of over 75's? i.e., according to the Government, all over 75s live singly and independently and all want to watch TV? This is the government doing the bidding of our non-dom newspaper and media owners. Nic On 06/07/2015 18:56, michael norman wrote: Mike Some real anti-BBC comments being posted on the forums. While I think the BBC can be pretty arrogant as an organisation (for example when dealing with complaints) I'm a great supporter of PBS broadcasting and I think the range and quality of programmes produced by the Corporation is just astounding, especially when compared to some of the dross put out by the Commercial channels. Having spent a fair bit of time abroad in recent years, I've not come across a broadcaster which can even come close to rivalling the BBC whether it's radio or TV. I've never had any dealings with the BBC other than as a viewer so I cannot comment on whether it's top-heavy with management, etc. For me, the licence fee is excellent value for money - not a day goes by without me referring to the BBC website, reading news etc, ditto listening to radio and viewing TV. And the iPlayer is now providing the type of TV I dreamed about 20 years ago (knocking spots off ITV's offering) and, of course, get_iplayer is an invaluable bolt-on. I do think the loophole that allows viewers to watch TV output online (as long as it's not live) does need to be plugged. I'm more than happy to pay the licence fee and would hate any move towards subscriptions fees whether it's for TV or iPlayer access, equally I would be against any move to make any of the BBC channels to carry commercials. Alan Agreed, fortunately without having had to experience being abroad without the BBC. The crucial point I was trying to make in the context of this list was and is how does the bbc plug what they perceive as the iPlayer gap. Its ironic that iPlayer is streets ahead technically of all the other catch up services, particularly ITVs offering, aside from anything about quality content the BBC started the whole thing and have made it work. What happens next ? I don't know, I fear the worst. Mike ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Paywall for iPlayer?
In article 003901d0b80b$66a67380$33f35a80$@eycott.co.uk, George Eycott geo...@eycott.co.uk wrote: equally I would be against any move to make any of the BBC channels to carry commercials. I agree, we visited Canada recently and I am amazed anyone watches TV live there. Basically the channels primarily carry adverts with odd bits of programmes shown occasionally. It made trying to watch anything completely unbearable. Would hate that to happen over here. FWIW On my first trip to the USA I found that the film 'Superman' was on TV and was initially impressed/amazed that it was listed as being almost 4 hours long. When I watched some I realised why... More adverts than film. Quite unwatchable for someone used to UK TV. The lack of real news was also amazing. And as they say, Its call Fox News because that's what it does :-) Jim -- Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Paywall for iPlayer?
You think the BBC is left wing. I happen to think they have a right wing bias. That's the problem for a broadcaster trying to do real news, whichever government is in power will hate the BBC for pointing out various things the government does wrong. So the BBC will die by a thousand cuts over the next 30 years, as the pressure from Murdoch funded (legally) MPs means something is taken from the BBC at every General Election. Personally I believe the BBC's funding levels should be restored to what they were 10 years ago in real terms, including having the S4C and World Service budgets put back. This would be a significant rise in the licence fee and I would be glad to pay it. The other problem is there are now a lot more over 75s than there used to be, and this will only increase. It should be changed to a free TV licence 10 years after you got your state pension, so it does gradually go up. But once the cost of this is transferred to the BBC it will be almost impossible to ever get the age increased. What happens when a quarter of the population is over 75? -- Owen Smith owen.sm...@cantab.net Cambridge, UK On 6 Jul 2015, at 20:29, Graham Temple (gmail) graham.j.tem...@gmail.com wrote: Yes but the BBC have themselves to blame for the current antipathy from the present government with their dreadful left wing bias, which was cringing in the recent election coverage. However I do totally agree that if the baby goes out with the bathwater it would be a real shame as I agree much of what they offer is excellent. GT -Original Message- From: get_iplayer [mailto:get_iplayer-boun...@lists.infradead.org] On Behalf Of michael norman Sent: 06 July 2015 18:57 To: get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org Subject: Re: Paywall for iPlayer? Mike Some real anti-BBC comments being posted on the forums. While I think the BBC can be pretty arrogant as an organisation (for example when dealing with complaints) I'm a great supporter of PBS broadcasting and I think the range and quality of programmes produced by the Corporation is just astounding, especially when compared to some of the dross put out by the Commercial channels. Having spent a fair bit of time abroad in recent years, I've not come across a broadcaster which can even come close to rivalling the BBC whether it's radio or TV. I've never had any dealings with the BBC other than as a viewer so I cannot comment on whether it's top-heavy with management, etc. For me, the licence fee is excellent value for money - not a day goes by without me referring to the BBC website, reading news etc, ditto listening to radio and viewing TV. And the iPlayer is now providing the type of TV I dreamed about 20 years ago (knocking spots off ITV's offering) and, of course, get_iplayer is an invaluable bolt-on. I do think the loophole that allows viewers to watch TV output online (as long as it's not live) does need to be plugged. I'm more than happy to pay the licence fee and would hate any move towards subscriptions fees whether it's for TV or iPlayer access, equally I would be against any move to make any of the BBC channels to carry commercials. Alan Agreed, fortunately without having had to experience being abroad without the BBC. The crucial point I was trying to make in the context of this list was and is how does the bbc plug what they perceive as the iPlayer gap. Its ironic that iPlayer is streets ahead technically of all the other catch up services, particularly ITVs offering, aside from anything about quality content the BBC started the whole thing and have made it work. What happens next ? I don't know, I fear the worst. Mike ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Paywall for iPlayer?
Ultimately the BBC can resolve the issue of licensing: outside of the UK, 'free' BBC channels are supported by commercials (albeit tasteful, high income advertisements from governments 'Come on holiday to this once-third-world country and see how your business can make a good deal!', semi-exclusive airlines which hoi polloi are unable to use 'Fly business class with our luxury liner in the sky', aimed at business leaders 'We use /this/ computing platform to ensure that our business can deliver!' or even luxury 5 star+ hotels aimed at the corporate class 'Hold your next conference in our exclusive tropical setting...' - but like all commercial channels, the frequency does begin to grate. Outside of the UK, as we know, iPlayer isn't available (though there are moves afoot by the EU to change this). Ultimately the easiest way to resolve this is to issue a 'key' (some sort of GUID maybe, or a client certificate) with each TV licence, coupled with a two-factor auth method. Anyone with a TV licence can enter their credentials and get pre-paid BBC viewing pleasure, those without a licence will have to pay. This would solve the issue with the EU requiring the BBC to make iPlayer available to EU countries (yes, it will be fully available, but people will have to subscribe or pay-per-view) and those of us who have a statutory obligation to purchase a license won't have to worry. On 6 July 2015 at 18:56, michael norman michaeltnor...@gmail.com wrote: Mike Some real anti-BBC comments being posted on the forums. While I think the BBC can be pretty arrogant as an organisation (for example when dealing with complaints) I'm a great supporter of PBS broadcasting and I think the range and quality of programmes produced by the Corporation is just astounding, especially when compared to some of the dross put out by the Commercial channels. Having spent a fair bit of time abroad in recent years, I've not come across a broadcaster which can even come close to rivalling the BBC whether it's radio or TV. I've never had any dealings with the BBC other than as a viewer so I cannot comment on whether it's top-heavy with management, etc. For me, the licence fee is excellent value for money - not a day goes by without me referring to the BBC website, reading news etc, ditto listening to radio and viewing TV. And the iPlayer is now providing the type of TV I dreamed about 20 years ago (knocking spots off ITV's offering) and, of course, get_iplayer is an invaluable bolt-on. I do think the loophole that allows viewers to watch TV output online (as long as it's not live) does need to be plugged. I'm more than happy to pay the licence fee and would hate any move towards subscriptions fees whether it's for TV or iPlayer access, equally I would be against any move to make any of the BBC channels to carry commercials. Alan Agreed, fortunately without having had to experience being abroad without the BBC. The crucial point I was trying to make in the context of this list was and is how does the bbc plug what they perceive as the iPlayer gap. Its ironic that iPlayer is streets ahead technically of all the other catch up services, particularly ITVs offering, aside from anything about quality content the BBC started the whole thing and have made it work. What happens next ? I don't know, I fear the worst. Mike ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer -- Alex ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
RE: Paywall for iPlayer?
Yes but the BBC have themselves to blame for the current antipathy from the present government with their dreadful left wing bias, which was cringing in the recent election coverage. However I do totally agree that if the baby goes out with the bathwater it would be a real shame as I agree much of what they offer is excellent. GT -Original Message- From: get_iplayer [mailto:get_iplayer-boun...@lists.infradead.org] On Behalf Of michael norman Sent: 06 July 2015 18:57 To: get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org Subject: Re: Paywall for iPlayer? Mike Some real anti-BBC comments being posted on the forums. While I think the BBC can be pretty arrogant as an organisation (for example when dealing with complaints) I'm a great supporter of PBS broadcasting and I think the range and quality of programmes produced by the Corporation is just astounding, especially when compared to some of the dross put out by the Commercial channels. Having spent a fair bit of time abroad in recent years, I've not come across a broadcaster which can even come close to rivalling the BBC whether it's radio or TV. I've never had any dealings with the BBC other than as a viewer so I cannot comment on whether it's top-heavy with management, etc. For me, the licence fee is excellent value for money - not a day goes by without me referring to the BBC website, reading news etc, ditto listening to radio and viewing TV. And the iPlayer is now providing the type of TV I dreamed about 20 years ago (knocking spots off ITV's offering) and, of course, get_iplayer is an invaluable bolt-on. I do think the loophole that allows viewers to watch TV output online (as long as it's not live) does need to be plugged. I'm more than happy to pay the licence fee and would hate any move towards subscriptions fees whether it's for TV or iPlayer access, equally I would be against any move to make any of the BBC channels to carry commercials. Alan Agreed, fortunately without having had to experience being abroad without the BBC. The crucial point I was trying to make in the context of this list was and is how does the bbc plug what they perceive as the iPlayer gap. Its ironic that iPlayer is streets ahead technically of all the other catch up services, particularly ITVs offering, aside from anything about quality content the BBC started the whole thing and have made it work. What happens next ? I don't know, I fear the worst. Mike ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Paywall for iPlayer?
In article 559ac160.9010...@gmail.com, michael norman michaeltnor...@gmail.com wrote: The crucial point I was trying to make in the context of this list was and is how does the bbc plug what they perceive as the iPlayer gap. Its ironic that iPlayer is streets ahead technically of all the other catch up services, particularly ITVs offering, aside from anything about quality content the BBC started the whole thing and have made it work. The good news is that the minister said in Parliament this afternoon that the law should be changed so that a TV license will be required to make use of the iplayer 'on demand'. Hence the loophole that lets people use this without a license is to be closed. The minister was making a statement and answering questions [1] and I think the BBC's 'head prefect' (Private Eye reference ;- ) has also made a statement about this. Ensuring people *do* get a license is, of course, another matter. Although I guess they could adopt the same approach as for conventional TV. You have broadband and a computer / 'smart' sic TV. Egro, you are equipped to access iplayer, thus require a license. As a parallel for having a TV receiver. Jim [1] Saw this live on BBC Parliament (via DVB-T) when having a tea break at about 4pm. Now wondering about being able to fetch the relevant section using gip. To check the minister's words for any sneaky gotchas. No doubt someone will now tell me. :-) -- Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Paywall for iPlayer?
On 06/07/2015 22:11, michael norman wrote: On 07/06/2015 09:47 PM, Alan Milewczyk wrote: Can we please keep party politics off the list? I could quite happily bore everyone senseless with my political rants but I'm sure you wouldn't want that! Alan ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer If that’s directed at me two points : I was trying to make the point about the political threat the BBC faces in the context of this list the threat to iPlayer. I don't see how you can separate that from a political discussion. Whether that is beyond the scope of this list, I don't know. Given that the subject of the future of iPlayer was raised here I tried to add a political context. What I did not do is declare any support for any party. I am a member of none. My political beliefs are mine and are nothing to do with this list. Mike I said party politics (as in left wing or right wing etc etc). A ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Paywall for iPlayer?
On 6 Jul 2015 at 21:34, michael norman michael norman michaeltnor...@gmail.com wrote: On 07/06/2015 09:13 PM, TQ wrote: On 06 July 2015 at 21:04 michael norman michaeltnor...@gmail.com wrote: Rather than promote conspiracy theories about non doms and media owners. Direct your ire at the one eyed Scotch loon and his party who bribed electors with taxpayers' money. ___ Oh dear this is really getting OT But just asking who the one eyed Scotch loon might be ? Mad Jock McBroon - the man who was so deluded that he claimed to have abolished boom and bust Ok Gordon Brown. Forgive me but how does this help us with the present attitude of our rulers towards the BBC. All I said was that they are ideologically opposed to public service, thats not a conspiracy theory its what they are doing and intend to do. Defending and advancing the interests of media owners who are mainly non doms. All of which is a matter of public record. Osbourne [sic] has made it quite plain what his agenda is, most recently on the Andrew Marr show on BBC last Sunday. On the public record. Osborne's moving of funding the free licenses from taxpayer to BBC is a smart move. It means defending (imho the indefensible) or opposing free licenses for over 75s is an issue for the BBC: if the BBC want their money they can lobby for the end of McBroon's profligacy. ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
