Re: The future of Phabricator
For those interested: Three years later, Phabricator shut down. May 29, 2021: https://admin.phacility.com/phame/post/view/11/phacility_is_winding_down_operations/ On 10/30/18 5:54 AM, Ben Gamari wrote: > For one, at this point we have no options for support in the event that > something goes wrong as the company responsible for Phabricator, > Phacility, has closed their support channels to non-paying customers. > Furthermore, in the past year or two Phacility has been placing their > development resources in the parts their customers pay them for, which > appear to be much different that the parts that we actively use. For > this reason, some parts that we rely on seem oddly half-finished. ___ ghc-devs mailing list ghc-devs@haskell.org http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ghc-devs
Re: The future of Phabricator
In one sense our migration was prescient, on the other hand i really wish gitlab had a more performant code review ux. Are there any performant for large code review tools? I find the reload rendering latency and auto collapse defaults in gitlab pretty painful and I’m pretty ignorant of the land scape these days. On Fri, Sep 17, 2021 at 7:27 PM Niklas Hambüchen via ghc-devs < ghc-devs@haskell.org> wrote: > For those interested: > > Three years later, Phabricator shut down. > > May 29, 2021: > > https://admin.phacility.com/phame/post/view/11/phacility_is_winding_down_operations/ > > On 10/30/18 5:54 AM, Ben Gamari wrote: > > For one, at this point we have no options for support in the event that > > something goes wrong as the company responsible for Phabricator, > > Phacility, has closed their support channels to non-paying customers. > > Furthermore, in the past year or two Phacility has been placing their > > development resources in the parts their customers pay them for, which > > appear to be much different that the parts that we actively use. For > > this reason, some parts that we rely on seem oddly half-finished. > ___ > ghc-devs mailing list > ghc-devs@haskell.org > http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ghc-devs > ___ ghc-devs mailing list ghc-devs@haskell.org http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ghc-devs
Re: The future of Phabricator
What's to prevent GitLab from doing what Phabricator has once enough companies have committed to it? David Feuer Well-Typed Consultant On Oct 30, 2018, 12:55 AM, at 12:55 AM, Ben Gamari wrote: > >TL;DR. For several reasons I think we should consider alternatives to > Phabricator. My view is that GitLab seems like the best option. > > >Hello everyone, > >Over the past year I have been growing increasingly weary of our >continued dependence on Phabricator. Without a doubt, its code review >interface is the best I have used. However, for a myriad of reasons I >am recently questioning whether it is still the best tool for GHC's >needs. > > ># The problem > >There are a number of reasons why I am currently uncertain about >Phabricator. > >For one, at this point we have no options for support in the event that >something goes wrong as the company responsible for Phabricator, >Phacility, has closed their support channels to non-paying customers. >Furthermore, in the past year or two Phacility has been placing their >development resources in the parts their customers pay them for, which >appear to be much different that the parts that we actively use. For >this reason, some parts that we rely on seem oddly half-finished. > >This concern was recently underscored by some rather unfortunate >misfeatures in Harbormaster which resulted in broken CI after the >Hadrian merge and now apparent bugs which have made it difficult to >migrate to the CircleCI integration we previously prepared. > >Perhaps most importantly, in our recent development priorities survey >our use of Phabricator was the most common complaint by a fair margin, >both in case of respondents who have contributed patches and those who >have not. On the whole, past contributors and potential future >contributors alike have strongly indicated that they want a more >Git-like experience. Of course, this wasn't terribly surprising; this >is just the most recent case where contributors have made this >preference known. > >Frankly, in a sense it is hard to blame them. The fact that users need >to install a PHP tool, Arcanist, to contribute anything but >documentation patches has always seemed like unnecessary friction to me >and I would be quite happy to be rid of it. Indeed we have had a quite >healthy number of GitHub documentation patches since we started >accepting them. This makes me thing that there may indeed be potential >contributoes that we are leaving on the table. > > ># What to do > >With Rackspace support ending at the end of year, now may be a good >time to consider whether we really want to continue on this road. >Phabricator is great at code review but I am less and less certain that >it is worth the maintenance uncertainty and potential lost contributors >that it costs. > >Moreover, good alternatives seem closer at-hand than they were when we >deployed Phabricator. > > >## Move to GitHub > >When people complain about our infrastructure, they often use GitHub as >the example of what they would like to see. However, realistically I >have a hard time seeing GitHub as a viable option. Its feature set is >simply >insufficient enough to handle the needs of a larger project like GHC >without significant external tooling (as seen in the case of >Rust-lang). > >The concrete reasons have been well-documented in previous discussions >but, to summarize, > > * its review functionality is extremely painful to use with larger > patches > > * rebased patches lead to extreme confusion and lost review comments > >* it lacks support for pre-receive hooks, which serve as a last line of > defense to prevent unintended submodule changes > > * its inability to deal with external tickets is problematic > > * there is essentially no possibility that we could eventually migrate > GHC's tickets to GitHub's ticket tracker without considerable data > loss (much less manage the ticket load that would result), meaning > that we would forever be stuck with maintaining Trac. > > * on a personal note, its search functionality has often left me > empty-handed > >On the whole, these issues seem pretty hard to surmount. > > >## Move to GitLab > >In using GitLab for another project over the past months I have been >positively surprised by its quality. It handles rebased merge requests >far better than GitHub, has functional search, and quite a usable >review >interface. Furthermore, upstream has been extremely responsive to >suggestions for improvement [1]. Even out-of-the-box it seems to be >flexible enough to accommodate our needs, supporting integration with >external issue trackers, having reasonable release management features, >and support for code owners to automate review triaging (replacing much >of the functionality of Phabricator's Herald). > >Finally, other FOSS projects' [3] recent migrations from Phabrictor to >GitLab have shown that GitLab-the-company is quite willing to offer >help >when needed. I took some time this weekend to try setting up
Re: The future of Phabricator
The compelling argument against Phabricator is that (as Ben mentions) parts of the product have remained unfinished whilst seemingly low-priority features are worked on for months. I think at the start Austin had a lot of success interacting with the maintainers but now you can't make a new ticket unless you are a paying customer. A compelling argument to move to gitlab is the possibility of tighter integration between the patches and tickets. I'm saying this as someone who much prefers using arcanist and the phabricator diff model to the git PR model but at the end of the day, everyone who contributes to GHC is able to use both models as most projects are hosted on github. I would be interested in reading more about the GNOME and freedesktop switch to gitlab. In particular the technical details of the migration. So I fully support Ben's judgement here and hope that we can make a decision with haste. Cheers, Matt On Tue, Oct 30, 2018 at 4:55 AM Ben Gamari wrote: > > > TL;DR. For several reasons I think we should consider alternatives to >Phabricator. My view is that GitLab seems like the best option. > > > Hello everyone, > > Over the past year I have been growing increasingly weary of our > continued dependence on Phabricator. Without a doubt, its code review > interface is the best I have used. However, for a myriad of reasons I > am recently questioning whether it is still the best tool for GHC's > needs. > > > # The problem > > There are a number of reasons why I am currently uncertain about > Phabricator. > > For one, at this point we have no options for support in the event that > something goes wrong as the company responsible for Phabricator, > Phacility, has closed their support channels to non-paying customers. > Furthermore, in the past year or two Phacility has been placing their > development resources in the parts their customers pay them for, which > appear to be much different that the parts that we actively use. For > this reason, some parts that we rely on seem oddly half-finished. > > This concern was recently underscored by some rather unfortunate > misfeatures in Harbormaster which resulted in broken CI after the > Hadrian merge and now apparent bugs which have made it difficult to > migrate to the CircleCI integration we previously prepared. > > Perhaps most importantly, in our recent development priorities survey > our use of Phabricator was the most common complaint by a fair margin, > both in case of respondents who have contributed patches and those who > have not. On the whole, past contributors and potential future > contributors alike have strongly indicated that they want a more > Git-like experience. Of course, this wasn't terribly surprising; this > is just the most recent case where contributors have made this > preference known. > > Frankly, in a sense it is hard to blame them. The fact that users need > to install a PHP tool, Arcanist, to contribute anything but > documentation patches has always seemed like unnecessary friction to me > and I would be quite happy to be rid of it. Indeed we have had a quite > healthy number of GitHub documentation patches since we started > accepting them. This makes me thing that there may indeed be potential > contributoes that we are leaving on the table. > > > # What to do > > With Rackspace support ending at the end of year, now may be a good > time to consider whether we really want to continue on this road. > Phabricator is great at code review but I am less and less certain that > it is worth the maintenance uncertainty and potential lost contributors > that it costs. > > Moreover, good alternatives seem closer at-hand than they were when we > deployed Phabricator. > > > ## Move to GitHub > > When people complain about our infrastructure, they often use GitHub as > the example of what they would like to see. However, realistically I > have a hard time seeing GitHub as a viable option. Its feature set is simply > insufficient enough to handle the needs of a larger project like GHC > without significant external tooling (as seen in the case of Rust-lang). > > The concrete reasons have been well-documented in previous discussions > but, to summarize, > > * its review functionality is extremely painful to use with larger >patches > > * rebased patches lead to extreme confusion and lost review comments > > * it lacks support for pre-receive hooks, which serve as a last line of >defense to prevent unintended submodule changes > > * its inability to deal with external tickets is problematic > > * there is essentially no possibility that we could eventually migrate >GHC's tickets to GitHub's ticket tracker without considerable data >loss (much less manage the ticket load that would result), meaning >that we would forever be stuck with maintaining Trac. > > * on a personal note, its search functionality has often left me >empty-handed > > On the whole, these issues seem pretty hard to surmount. >
Re: The future of Phabricator
On 2018-10-30 at 11:53:18 +, Matthew Pickering wrote: [...] > A compelling argument to move to gitlab is the possibility of tighter > integration between the patches and tickets. You don't need to move to GitLab to achieve that, do you? In fact, we had this project where somebody invested quite a lot of time & effort to implement a proof of concept for migrating Trac tickets into Phabricator which you might remember; it was generally well received but afaik this was silently forgotten about and so the ball was dropped in pushing it further: https://mail.haskell.org/pipermail/ghc-devs/2016-December/013444.html I'd much rather sacrifice Trac's benefits by consolidating Trac tickets into Phabricator (if the tighter integration between code-review & ticketing is the main compelling argument) than to give up on both, Phabricator *and* Trac. ___ ghc-devs mailing list ghc-devs@haskell.org http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ghc-devs
Re: The future of Phabricator
David Feuer writes: > What's to prevent GitLab from doing what Phabricator has once enough > companies have committed to it? > In principle, nothing. However, in general GitLab-the-company seems significantly more devoted to the idea of GitLab as an open-source project than Phacility was to Phabricator. In truth, Phabricator was never really an healthy FOSS project. Yes, the source was available but the maintainers were quite clear that they have no intention of accepting unsolicited patches. GitLab, on the other hand, encourages external contributors, has actively supported adoption by open source projects and has an active set of maintainers. Cheers, - Ben signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ ghc-devs mailing list ghc-devs@haskell.org http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ghc-devs
