Re: [Gimp-developer] Re: GIMP Tip of the Day messages
Am Mon, 2001-10-08 um 03.53 schrieb 1002506022: gettext and po files are a dead end for modular applications because they only behave well for monolithic and small applications; both of which GIMP definitely isn't and for sure even less will be in the future. Evolution certainly isn't monolithic nor small, and yet it has scaled well to almost 3000 messages as of today. Yes, and the point is? Evolution is using XML and xml-i18n-tools, but it has the slight advantage over GIMP that it's heavily relying on GNOME components for remote activation and components. Though I'm using it it's a huge bloaty, slow and buggy piece of software and it's for sure not a good example for the way we should go with GIMP in the future. I sure agree with you here, but I'm fairly confident in that there will never any ditching until said alternative tools are a reality and tested in practice, and have extensive support. We're talking about the development branch here. It's discouraged to touch the translations at the moment and thus we have a lot of time until the translator tools would have to be available, so no need to worry now that there would be no easy way to work translations tomorrow. -- Servus, Daniel ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
[Gimp-developer] Re: GIMP Tip of the Day messages
Heya prof, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (2001-10-08 at 1526.45 +0200): Yes, and the point is? Evolution is using XML and xml-i18n-tools, but it has the slight advantage over GIMP that it's heavily relying on GNOME components for remote activation and components. Though I'm using it it's a huge bloaty, slow and buggy piece of software and it's for sure not a good example for the way we should go with GIMP in the future. Which GNOME components does GIMP use? (confused again) carol ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Re: GIMP Tip of the Day messages
Hi, Daniel could you please take the discussion about UTF-8 and editors somewhere else?! Then, if you want to propose something that is GIMP related, please take your time to write up an elaborate proposal and try to explain your ideas in a way that allows us to discuss them in a constructive manner?! Last, but not least, please try to respect others people's work and opinions. Thank you very much. Salut, Sven ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Re: GIMP Tip of the Day messages
For what it's worth, here is my opinion on the Tip of the Day messages
and their translations. In summary: keep it simple! I know that
being the one who introduced these tips in the Gimp does not grant me
any special priviledges (especially since I am not translating them)
but it looks like the easiest option for the translators would be to
put the tips in a .h header file and the translations in .po files.
Although it could appear to be less flexible than using an XML file,
the header file has the advantage that it can be translated in the
exact same way as any other part of the Gimp, without requiring any
special method or special tool. All translators who are able to
translate the code of the Gimp will automatically know what they have
to do in order to translate the tips (this is important for those who
come from the GNOME translation team and may not be very familiar with
the Gimp yet). It will also reduce the size of the code because we do
not use a separate parser and all the gettext stuff is already used by
other parts of the code. (*)
As Sven already mentioned, the solution would consist of adding a new
file gimp_tips.h in the source code, containing something like this:
const gchar *tips[] =
{
N_(This is the first tip.),
N_(This is the second tip and it has bbold/b text.),
N_(This is the last tip. Now, you are on your own.)
};
gint n_tips = G_N_ELEMENTS (tips);
The multi-line tips should be included in one string (with line
breaks) because that will be easier to translate.
This format does not prevent anybody from exporting the tips to an XML
or HTML file and then importing it into another tool. For example, we
could include the following very simple program in the source
distribution of the Gimp:
#include config.h
#include stdio.h
#include libgimp/gimpintl.h
#include gimp_tips.h
int
main (int argc, char **argv)
{
gint i;
INIT_LOCALE (gimp);
printf (gimp-tips\n);
for (i = 0; i n_tips; i++)
{
printf ( tip\n%s\n /tip\n, tips[i]);
}
printf (/gimp-tips\n);
}
This very simple program (or a more elaborated version of it) would
allow any translator to output the strings in any format that is
suitable for usage in another environment.
-Raphael
(*) Here, I am talking both about the number of lines of source code
that have to be maintained and the size of the compiled
application. The size of the initialized data will be increased
by 6 KB.
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Re: [Gimp-developer] Re: GIMP Tip of the Day messages
On Mon, 08 Oct 2001, Sven Neumann wrote: Daniel could you please take the discussion about UTF-8 and editors somewhere else?! Then, if you want to propose something that is GIMP related, please take your time to write up an elaborate proposal and try to explain your ideas in a way that allows us to discuss them in a constructive manner?! Last, but not least, please try to respect others people's work and opinions. Thank you very much. Well, I was about to say something similar. If you want to have a discussion involving a re-organization of the translation of the Gimp, then it would be better to _at least_ change the subject line to something more appropriate. The tips would be affected by the changes that you are proposing, but that would only be a side effect of more important changes. -Raphael ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Re: GIMP Tip of the Day messages
Hi, [EMAIL PROTECTED] ( Marc) (A.) (Lehmann ) writes: On Mon, Oct 08, 2001 at 06:53:24PM +0200, Raphael Quinet [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As Sven already mentioned, the solution would consist of adding a new I would also agree that the header idea is best, HOWEVER, Sven surprisingly offered that it would be 10 minutes or so to use xml (he seemed almost eager to do it), so I am undecided on what is the simplest solution. I'd be for the header idea myself, not liking the idea of adding xml parsing to gimp for just one file. But the idea is when we do that for one file we might do that for other files (not svens idea), and xml is certainly broader known to people than the current fileformat. well, I'd still say writing the parser is simple and won't introduce much overhead. However I had to find out today that the tools available for i18n of XML files don't really work for us. intltool does not seem to be able to handle our XML file reasonably well. Perhaps we should go with the header solution for now. We can always change this to XML later if the tools get better (I have filed a bunch of bug-reports for intltool). Since the strings will be translated in po files no matter how we decide, it shouldn't matter from the translators point of view. I really think we should use XML for the tips but Marc is probably right that it only makes sense if we use it for other files too. If we decide to tackle some of our plug-in problems with XML, we will probably want a real XML parser. That would give us enough good reasons to depend on libxml2. With a powerful XML library at hand, it will be trivial to solve the i18n problems that intltool can't handle for us now. Salut, Sven ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Re: GIMP Tip of the Day messages
Am Mon, 2001-10-08 um 17.46 schrieb 1002555985: Which GNOME components does GIMP use? None, that's the point. :) -- Servus, Daniel ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
[Gimp-developer] Re: gimp HEAD and glib from CVS
On Tue, Oct 02, 2001 at 07:34:27PM +0200, Sven Neumann wrote: Hi, we have tried to keep the CVS version of GIMP compileable with the latest releases of GTK+ and friends as well as with the current state of these modules in CVS. The latest (small) changes in glib break source compatibility and since the glib version number has not yet been incremented, I don't see a way to conditionalize the code so that it works with both versions of glib. As a first solution, I'm posting a patch here for the people among you that follow CVS development of glib, pango, atk and gtk+. I'd like to know how many of you would prefer to have this changes applied to the gimp CVS tree now and how many would prefer us to stay source compatible with the latest glib, pango, atk and gtk+ development releases. To me, it looks like until the release of the first 2.0 version of GTK+, it would be more logical to sync CVS gimp with CVS glib-atk-pango-gtk+. So, please apply. Anyhow, the GTK+ API should be frozen real soon now, no ? -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Linux - Why use Windows, since there is a door? ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
[Gimp-developer] Re: gimp HEAD and glib from CVS
Hi, David Odin [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: To me, it looks like until the release of the first 2.0 version of GTK+, it would be more logical to sync CVS gimp with CVS glib-atk-pango-gtk+. So, please apply. it's a major burden for some of us with a slow internet connection, so we will try with a compromise: Dave Neary has just checked the patch I've sent into CVS and added a few explaining words to the HACKING file. So pure gimp HEAD is supposed to compile against the latest releases and those of you that update gtk+ and friends regularily should apply the patch and try not to commit the changes. At least not until the next gtk+ release is out... Anyhow, the GTK+ API should be frozen real soon now, no ? it doesn't change much and that's why we think this is a reasonable approach that will not cause too much trouble. Salut, Sven ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
