Re: [Gimp-developer] Feature request, - liquid resize

2007-08-22 Thread David Gowers
On 8/22/07, Thomas Lytje <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I am not sure you take feature requests like this, - but try to take a look.
> It seems quite cool.
> I don't know enough about image processing (but I am a software engineer)
> but to me it looks like it wouldn't be to hard to implement. Hopefully there
> isn't a lot of patens making it impossible

Looks like a resizer in which the amount of source pixels per output
pixel varies spatially, rather than being roughly constant. It seems
to have a few requirements:
a) Resizing can only be done on one axis at once
b) two scalers would be needed, one iterating over X axis, one over Y.

Basically the only change relative to normal accumulators is that the
number of pixels resulting in a final pixel would need to be inversely
weighted by the significance mask (that is, read more input pixels to
produce an output pixel in insignificant areas.) There is also one
coefficient involved that would need some experimentation with to get
right: the exact ratio of scaling between completely significant
pixels and completely insignificant pixels. (I mean, when you shrink
that image, the significant features must also shrink somewhat -- at
least once they begin to push up against each other.)

Anyway, if you give a link to a paper describing the exact workings of
the algorithym, then it's much more likely that something will get
done in relation to it.
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Re: [Gimp-developer] Feature request, - liquid resize

2007-08-22 Thread Simon Budig
David Gowers ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> Anyway, if you give a link to a paper describing the exact workings of
> the algorithym, then it's much more likely that something will get
> done in relation to it.

It seems to be fairly straightforward and the results are beautiful. The
related paper is available at
http://www.faculty.idc.ac.il/arik/imret.pdf - but since this page is
pretty slow try these URLs:

   http://www.faculty.idc.ac.il.nyud.net/arik/imret.pdf
   http://www.faculty.idc.ac.il.nyud.net:8080/arik/imret.pdf

Would be cool if someone would tackle this.

Bye,
Simon
-- 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]  http://simon.budig.de/
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[Gimp-developer] View resampling quality and performance

2007-08-22 Thread Øyvind Kolås
The code used for showing the image has been changed quite a bit recently. The
first modification was that addition of a mipmap pyramid implemented on the
tile level that acts as a foundation for more efficient redraws that no longer
needs to traverse all the data of the image at full resolution to redisplay it
when zoomed out. In 2.4rc1 yielding a performance increase (assuming that the
code does indeed cache results between levels correctly.)

For 2.4rc1 I added code that did something close to bilinear interpolation from
the next larger mipmap level, this yielded even better results at a slight
performance penalty. (There might also be a crasher bug introduced for some
image size/display size combinations, not fully sure about this though).

In current SVN I've committed code that implements a box-filter that uses a 3x3
neighborhood instead of the 2x2 neighborhood that the bilinear filter used,
there still are room for some improvements both to the code readability as well
as the performance of the re sampling.

For many common resolutions these changes should have no impact on the speed
compared to the plain pyramid (100%, 50%, 25%, since nearest neighbour
re sampling is used directly on the correct pyramid level). It is possible with
this implementation to enable anti aliasing between the rectangles representing
pixels at zoom levels > 100% using this code, I am not sure if this is desired
or not, I have thus left it without anti aliasing in these cases.

If others want to help clean up as well as optimize the code, the places to look
are in app/display/gimpdisplayshell-render.c

The innermost function is compute_sample() , this function should be modified
to be as fast as possible since it is the piece of code called most of the
time. The shifting being done is done to avoid some integer overflowing issues;
it would be nice if these issues could be resolved, there are also some other
comments about possible optimizations/reorganization of the code possible here
in comments within the function.

render_image_tile_fault() this function is a generic function implementing the
3x3 neighbourhood traversal needed for the box filter, this code should
probably focus on readability instead of performance since it will most of the
time be handing off the actual work to either render_image_tile_fault_nearest
or render_image_tile_fault_one_row, render_image_tile_fault_one_row() is the
image iteration and tile traversal code that is called for the most common case
(all pixels needed can be fetched from a single row of tiles.) Reducing the
overhead (number of tiles kept in memory, etc.) for this function will result
in a faster display.

A general optimization that hasn't been done yet on a more architectural level
would be moving the projection to use pre-multiplied alpha, this would remove
the premultiply and un-premulitply steps for each level of the pyramid
as well as
the scaled blit itself, thankfully when I start migrating this last piece of
box-filtering code back to GEGL again I already have that, and thus should be
able to do slightly faster scaled blitting from the pyramid.

/Øyvind K.
-- 
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 -- William Gibson
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Re: [Gimp-developer] Is it too late to send a l10n patch for GIMP 2.4.0?

2007-08-22 Thread Martin Nordholts
Choi, Ji-Hui wrote:
> Hi. I'm new in gimp development.
> 
> few day ago, I checked gimp 2.4 rc1 source, and then I noticed the
> l10n file for korean was so terrible. it means translation was not
> apply almostly.
> 
> so I contacted our tongue translator, and got an answer. "it's for you." :-(
> BTW, so I fixed, reassigned, etc..
> 
> now I wonder, can I apply this patch on 2.4.0?
> if I'm not late, where and what do I send?
> I worked with po file using poedit on windows XP
> 
> please, give me advice
> 
> Greetings
> 

Hello Choi

I'm not sure what the Right way of doing this is, but for now you can 
attach the diff of the language file in reply to this mail, so that a 
developer can look it through and commit it if it looks ok.

- Martin
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Re: [Gimp-developer] Is it too late to send a l10n patch for GIMP2.4.0?

2007-08-22 Thread William Skaggs


My understanding is that it is never too late for translation improvements, 
even well after a stable release, and that the correct place to send them
is to the person responsible for your language.  Often translators don't
even *begin* to work until the "string freeze" that comes shortly before
a release.

  -- Bill
 

 
__ __ __ __
Sent via the CNPRC Email system at primate.ucdavis.edu


 
   
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Re: [Gimp-developer] Is it too late to send a l10n patch for GIMP 2.4.0?

2007-08-22 Thread Michael Natterer
On Wed, 2007-08-22 at 10:40 +0900, Choi, Ji-Hui wrote:
> Hi. I'm new in gimp development.
> 
> few day ago, I checked gimp 2.4 rc1 source, and then I noticed the
> l10n file for korean was so terrible. it means translation was not
> apply almostly.
> 
> so I contacted our tongue translator, and got an answer. "it's for you." :-(
> BTW, so I fixed, reassigned, etc..
> 
> now I wonder, can I apply this patch on 2.4.0?
> if I'm not late, where and what do I send?
> I worked with po file using poedit on windows XP
> 
> please, give me advice

It is never too late for translations, however all translations
of GNOME SVN modules are handled by the gnome-i18n mailing
list. Please contact them, somebody there will give you the
right advice or sommit your patches.

ciao,
--mitch

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Re: [Gimp-developer] New option "Use custom quality settings" for JPEG files

2007-08-22 Thread Raphaël Quinet
On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 10:20:48 -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Quoting Robert L Krawitz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> > The problem is that "custom tables" seems very confusing -- it sounds
> > like the user's going to be asked to input something she knows nothing
> > about.  One could argue that "Use existing image quality settings" [...]
> My only comment on this issue is that the term "image" is consistently  
> employed within the GIMP vocabulary to mean the "in-memory" copy of  
> the picture being edited [...]

I think that using the terms "original image" would avoid this problem.

We are basically left with two options:

1) "Use custom quality settings"
   - Hard to understand for most users
   - Technically correct description
   - No need to change the code; this is what we have now

2) "Use quality settings from original image"
   - Easier to understand for most users
   - Correct description for the most common usage scenario
   - Requires some small changes to the code
   - Breaks the string freeze before 2.4

It seems that going for (2) would be better for the users but would
annoy some translators.  But I got several requests to go for something
like option (2), so I would like to know if it is worth breaking the
string freeze.  Opinions?

-Raphaël

P.S.: please do not mention bikesheds.
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Re: [Gimp-developer] GSOC (was: brush manager)

2007-08-22 Thread Raphaël Quinet
On Sun, 19 Aug 2007 19:28:13 +0200, Karine Delvare <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> There was a 2006 Google Summer of Code project for this. If it had been
> completed, there would be a brush manager in GIMP 2.4, but it wasn't
> (the student is not to blame, he focused on something completely
> different instead).
> 
> Maybe the same project can be proposed for the 2008 GSOC?

Side note regarding the Google Summer of Code: let's hope that we can
be selected in 2008.  Although we do not know the reasons why other
projects were selected instead of GIMP for GSoC 2007, it seems that
most GSoC projects focus on "quick wins".  It is likely that we could
improve our chances of being selected next year by working on the
following things:
  - Having at least one stable GIMP release per year.
  - Merging GSoC results faster in the main codebase (if appropriate)
and advertising them as new features on our web site, etc.
  - Being better prepared for GSoC by focusing on a smaller set of
ideas but with better descriptions of their scope, etc.
  - Making it easier for newcomers to contribute to the core. I admit
that I do not know how to do that.  Maybe we could start by
providing a good overview and top-down description of how GIMP
works internally?  But I don't think I would even be able to
write that myself...

-Raphaël
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Re: [Gimp-developer] Extending GIMP Plugins

2007-08-22 Thread Amit Kumar Saha
Hello all,

Here is another way I thought I could give some form of
"extensibility" to a plugin user. Say, that I want my plugin to be a
single entry point to all the Image processing operations possible
with GIMP. What I do is display all the GIMP functions to the Plugin
user via the Plugin User Interface(GUI). Then the user selects the
operation that is to be performed and the plugin sets off to do the
necessary job.

I am assuming here that the functions of the GIMP that I list for the
user is only those for which there exists a API entry in the libGimp.
In the background when the user selects a particular operation, the
corresponding API function is called. This is of course an assumption
to simplify the thought process.

Am i thinking in a way that could possibly be implemented? or is the
word "extensible" remotely applicable to my idea?

Waiting for your comments!

-- 
Amit Kumar Saha
[URL]:http://amitsaha.in.googlepages.com
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Re: [Gimp-developer] Extending GIMP Plugins

2007-08-22 Thread Michael Schumacher
Amit Kumar Saha wrote:

> Here is another way I thought I could give some form of
> "extensibility" to a plugin user. Say, that I want my plugin to be a
> single entry point to all the Image processing operations possible
> with GIMP.

Now your plug-in seems to become something I'd call GIMP. What use cases
are you trying to handle, actually?


Regards,
Michael

-- 
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Wiki > http://wiki.gimp.org | .de: http://gimpforum.de
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Re: [Gimp-developer] Extending GIMP Plugins

2007-08-22 Thread Raphaël Quinet
On Tue, 21 Aug 2007 15:48:15 +0530, "Amit Kumar Saha" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Is there any way to make GIMP plugins themselves extensible. My point
> here is that, can we make a GIMP plugin which allows itself modifiable
> by a end-user to include a new functionality without much of a hassle
> on part of the end-user. Does any one know of a method to do this or
> any GIMP plugin which already does this?

Besides the scripting languages mentioned by others, you could also
take a look at the MathMap plug-in if you are good at math...

MathMap home page:
  http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/schani/mathmap/

Nice examples of MathMap usage:
  http://www.flickr.com/groups/mathmap/

-Raphaël
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Re: [Gimp-developer] Extending GIMP Plugins

2007-08-22 Thread David Marrs
Amit Kumar Saha wrote:
> Am i thinking in a way that could possibly be implemented? or is the
> word "extensible" remotely applicable to my idea?
> 
So what you're talking about here is a graphical interface to the API that a 
user can use to build his own extensions? Essentially, it's a graphical 
programming language. There are quite a few examples of these in the music 
world 
that allow the construction of modular synths (amongst other things).

It sounds to me more like a separate companion program that's used to construct 
plug-ins than a plug-in itself. I like the idea very much.

---AV & Spam Filtering by M+Guardian - Risk Free Email (TM)---

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Re: [Gimp-developer] Extending GIMP Plugins

2007-08-22 Thread Raphaël Quinet
On Wed, 22 Aug 2007 23:19:30 +0100, David Marrs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Amit Kumar Saha wrote:
> > Am i thinking in a way that could possibly be implemented? or is the
> > word "extensible" remotely applicable to my idea?
> > 
> So what you're talking about here is a graphical interface to the API that a 
> user can use to build his own extensions? Essentially, it's a graphical 
> programming language. There are quite a few examples of these in the music 
> world 
> that allow the construction of modular synths (amongst other things).

Not only in the music world.  Around 1993 or so, I remember using a
program called Khoros Cantata to design some image filters.  A quick
search on the web returned this tutorial with screenshots of the old
X11 version that I used:
  http://www.cse.psu.edu/~cg585/cantata-over.html
Just imagine that the glyphs (the boxes that can be connected) could
be the operations that GIMP offers through the PDB.

It seems that Khoros Cantata has been acquired at least twice by
different companies, has been ported to Windows, and is now sold as
Accusoft VisiQuest:
  http://www.accusoft.com/products/visiquest/overview.asp
The interface has changed a bit, but it is still based on the same
ideas of connecting glyphs providing various functions.

By the way, this brings back some memories about what I did in 1993
as an exercise for a course in digital imaging.  Students were
asked to write a new filter for Khoros and use it to perform some
interesting image transformations.  I decided to write a filter
that would use various correlation methods to reconstruct an image
in which the lines were shifted horizontally by some random amount.
The default method was optimized for "un-shifting" images at TV
resolution (PAL) that were shifted by one of three predefined
offsets picked at random.  The method worked surprisingly well.  The
code and the results were presented to the professor.  He asked if,
by any chance, this could be used to decode Canal+ images (a pay TV
channel that was popular in several European countries).  And the
answer was yes.  Not in real time because the 486 processors that
were common at that time were not fast enough, but the method worked
well with recorded TV streams (sometimes even without using inter-
frame correlations).  Ah, I still have fun when I remember this and
when I consider that the professor gave one of the top marks for
this exercise.

-Raphaël
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Re: [Gimp-developer] Extending GIMP Plugins

2007-08-22 Thread Renan Birck
Em Qua, 2007-08-22 às 23:19 +0100, David Marrs escreveu:
> It sounds to me more like a separate companion program that's used to
> construct 
> plug-ins than a plug-in itself. I like the idea very much. 

Same with me; I would love something like a node-based editor (e.g.
http://pupuedit.sourceforge.net/screenshots/pihlaja_04_04_2007.png and
http://imaginit.rand.com/files/water_graph.gif )

This would let non-programmers, or programmers which aren't into image
processing, create their own plug-ins.

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Re: [Gimp-developer] Extending GIMP Plugins

2007-08-22 Thread Øyvind Kolås
On 8/23/07, David Marrs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Amit Kumar Saha wrote:
> > Am i thinking in a way that could possibly be implemented? or is the
> > word "extensible" remotely applicable to my idea?
> >
> So what you're talking about here is a graphical interface to the API that a
> user can use to build his own extensions? Essentially, it's a graphical
> programming language. There are quite a few examples of these in the music 
> world
> that allow the construction of modular synths (amongst other things).
>
> It sounds to me more like a separate companion program that's used to 
> construct
> plug-ins than a plug-in itself. I like the idea very much.

In some ways, this is essentially what /meta operations/ in GEGL is
about, at the moment they are written in C, but they could just as
well be created with an XML syntax and edited in a graph based
environment. See GEGL (http://www.gegl.org/) and bug #465743.

/Øyvind K.
-- 
«The future is already here. It's just not very evenly distributed»
 -- William Gibson
http://pippin.gimp.org/http://ffii.org/
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Re: [Gimp-developer] Extending GIMP Plugins

2007-08-22 Thread Kevin Cozens
Renan Birck wrote:
> Same with me; I would love something like a node-based editor (e.g.
> http://pupuedit.sourceforge.net/screenshots/pihlaja_04_04_2007.png and
> http://imaginit.rand.com/files/water_graph.gif )
> 
> This would let non-programmers, or programmers which aren't into image
> processing, create their own plug-ins.

That looks similar to the types of things one can do with GEGL which is due to 
be integrated in to GIMP after the 2.4 release.

-- 
Cheers!

Kevin.

http://www.ve3syb.ca/   |"What are we going to do today, Borg?"
Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172  |"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus:
 |  Try to assimilate the world!"
#include  |  -Pinkutus & the Borg
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Re: [Gimp-developer] Extending GIMP Plugins

2007-08-22 Thread Amit Kumar Saha
Hello Kevin,


On 8/23/07, Kevin Cozens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> That looks similar to the types of things one can do with GEGL which is due to
> be integrated in to GIMP after the 2.4 release.

I shall have a look at GEGL.

Thanks
-- 
Amit Kumar Saha
[URL]:http://amitsaha.in.googlepages.com
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Re: [Gimp-developer] GSOC

2007-08-22 Thread Kevin Cozens
Raphaël Quinet wrote:
>   - Having at least one stable GIMP release per year.

That would be nice. I am sure there are a quite a few GIMP users who would 
like to see some of the changes and new features available in a release 
version without waiting a couple of years as has happened on occasion with 
recent releases.

>   - Making it easier for newcomers to contribute to the core. I admit
> that I do not know how to do that.  Maybe we could start by
> providing a good overview and top-down description of how GIMP
> works internally?

You beat me to suggesting this on the mailing list. Its something I've been 
thinking about for a few weeks now. In fact, I recently ran across an open 
source project (I forget which one) that mentioned on their web site that they 
had available a document which had an overview to the source tree. I thought 
this was a great idea.

The GIMP source tree has been cleaned up and reorganized over the last few 
releases which makes it a bit easier to get in to but it is still a huge code 
base and somewhat impenetrable to someone who doesn't spend a lot of time 
wading through the directories. It also helps to know about auto-generated 
files, and what they are for.

I have too many projects/interests so I haven't spent a lot of time trying to 
decipher GIMP's huge source tree. For me it results in my avoiding GIMP 
related coding that touches on the "internals". The fact I'm not a graphic 
designer and that GIMP far exceeds my typical needs in an image manipulation 
program also hasn't helped in my desire to delve too deeply in to GIMP's 
source. Even delving too deep in to GEGL's relatively small source tree is a 
bit more than I have time/inclination for at the moment.

The only problem with any docs re: the GIMP source tree right now is that they 
will have to be restricted to GIMP 2.2 for now since the code will undergo 
some big changes after the 2.4 release.

-- 
Cheers!

Kevin.

http://www.ve3syb.ca/   |"What are we going to do today, Borg?"
Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172  |"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus:
 |  Try to assimilate the world!"
#include  |  -Pinkutus & the Borg
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[Gimp-developer] Tile creation and tile caching

2007-08-22 Thread rayadurgam sudha
hello every one,
can any one tell me when a map is tiled, what is the extent of zoom we 
can specify which does not create any problem for us as developers and users to 
view the map. please reply to this.. its urgent

sudha.


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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Is it too late to send a l10n patch for GIMP 2.4.0?
  (Michael Natterer)
   2. Re: New option "Use custom quality settings" for JPEG files
  (Rapha?l Quinet)
   3. Re: GSOC (was: brush manager) (Rapha?l Quinet)
   4. Re: Extending GIMP Plugins (Amit Kumar Saha)
   5. Re: Extending GIMP Plugins (Michael Schumacher)
   6. Re: Extending GIMP Plugins (Rapha?l Quinet)
   7. Re: Extending GIMP Plugins (David Marrs)
   8. Re: Extending GIMP Plugins (Rapha?l Quinet)


--

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 21:56:43 +0200
From: Michael Natterer 
Subject: Re: [Gimp-developer] Is it too late to send a l10n patch for
 GIMP 2.4.0?
To: "Choi, Ji-Hui" 

Cc: gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain

On Wed, 2007-08-22 at 10:40 +0900, Choi, Ji-Hui wrote:
> Hi. I'm new in gimp development.
> 
> few day ago, I checked gimp 2.4 rc1 source, and then I noticed the
> l10n file for korean was so terrible. it means translation was not
> apply almostly.
> 
> so I contacted our tongue translator, and got an answer. "it's for you." :-(
> BTW, so I fixed, reassigned, etc..
> 
> now I wonder, can I apply this patch on 2.4.0?
> if I'm not late, where and what do I send?
> I worked with po file using poedit on windows XP
> 
> please, give me advice

It is never too late for translations, however all translations
of GNOME SVN modules are handled by the gnome-i18n mailing
list. Please contact them, somebody there will give you the
right advice or sommit your patches.

ciao,
--mitch



--

Message: 2
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 22:55:25 +0200
From: Rapha?l Quinet 
Subject: Re: [Gimp-developer] New option "Use custom quality settings"
 for JPEG files
To: gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 10:20:48 -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Quoting Robert L Krawitz :
> > The problem is that "custom tables" seems very confusing -- it sounds
> > like the user's going to be asked to input something she knows nothing
> > about.  One could argue that "Use existing image quality settings" [...]
> My only comment on this issue is that the term "image" is consistently  
> employed within the GIMP vocabulary to mean the "in-memory" copy of  
> the picture being edited [...]

I think that using the terms "original image" would avoid this problem.

We are basically left with two options:

1) "Use custom quality settings"
   - Hard to understand for most users
   - Technically correct description
   - No need to change the code; this is what we have now

2) "Use quality settings from original image"
   - Easier to understand for most users
   - Correct description for the most common usage scenario
   - Requires some small changes to the code
   - Breaks the string freeze before 2.4

It seems that going for (2) would be better for the users but would
annoy some translators.  But I got several requests to go for something
like option (2), so I would like to know if it is worth breaking the
string freeze.  Opinions?

-Rapha?l

P.S.: please do not mention bikesheds.


--

Message: 3
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 23:24:10 +0200
From: Rapha?l Quinet 
Subject: Re: [Gimp-developer] GSOC (was: brush manager)
To: gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

On Sun, 19 Aug 2007 19:28:13 +0200, Karine Delvare  wrote:
> There was a 2006 Google Summer of Code project for this. If it had been
> completed, there would be a brush manager in GIMP 2.4, but it wasn't
> (the student is not to blame, he focused on something completely
> different instead).
> 
> Maybe the same project can be proposed for the 2008 GSOC?

Side note regarding the Google Summer of Code: let's hope that we can
be selected in 2008.  Although we do not know the reasons why other
projects were selected instead of GIMP for GSoC 2007, it seems that
most GSoC projects focus on "quick wins".  It is likely that we could
improve our chances of being selected next year by working on the
following things:
  - Having at least one stable GIMP