Re: [Gimp-developer] GIMP PDF export plugin
I send files to print shops every week. Here in argentina even serious printers require proprietary file formats like AIs and CDR, though they're fine with tiffs and PDFs. I don't understand why there is so much interest in supporting PDF export from GIMP, since the exported data will be only bitmap, and in that case a tiff file is enough and is absolutely compatible with every design program out there. In my oppinion, PDF only makes sense if there is mixed data like bitmap images and vector shapes or text. For flattened bitmaps, I'd say TIFF is even safer than PDF. My current workflow consists in separate RGB images to a CMYK tiff using the Separate+ Plugin. Usually I do some black overprint tweaking using the faux channels that Separate+ creates. When I need a PDF, I use Scribus or this script:http://my.opera.com/area42/blog/cmyk-tiff-2-pdf-for-gimp I think PDF will only make sense when vector shapes, CMYK color and spot channels are in GIMP. Meanwhile, Separated Tiffs are enough and I think that putting time and efforts on a PDF exporter wouldn't make a real difference. I'd prefer to see the separate plugin integrated in gimp, direct save of the separated tiff through the save plugin, importing separated tiffs directly (opening CMYK tiffs currently results in an uncorrected image with distorted colors wich is pretty unusable). So -1 to this. There are oteher things far more important than this. Gez. ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
[Gimp-developer] google summer of code
Hi all, I'm a Msc student of CS in the Inter diceplinery center in Herzliya, Israel. my main interests are image proccesing, image manipulation, computational photography and 2nd computer graphics. from the list of suggested ideas for the GIMP GSoC I saw that the main project suggestions are mainly for GUI and stuff like that, are there any project idea's that involve image manipulation? for example, there had been papers on "gradient domain editing", such as http://www.cs.tau.ac.il/~tommer/extra/adv-graphics/pie2003.pdf and I wonder, can something like this, or like "colorization by example" such as http://www.cs.tau.ac.il/~dcor/online_papers/papers/colorization05.pdf or "natural colorization" such as http://luanqing1021.googlepages.com/research can something like that become a GSoC project? Thank you! Irena -- Irena Damsky irena.dam...@gmail.com ++972-57-8165528 ++972-52-3294417 you can also find me on MSN: ira_dam...@hotmail.com Smile! and the world will smile with you! Cry! and you'll cry alone... ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] GIMP PDF export plugin
On Sun, Mar 22, 2009 at 11:13 PM, peter sikking wrote: > so now we really need some trend spotting from those in our community > who deal with serious printing jobs. It's difficult to talk about trends with regards to printing industry which tends to be quite conservative. If you tell Scribus guys "My printer demands TIFF" they will most likely reply "Then you bloody well find another printer". Except there can be no other printer. Just two weeks ago I've heard from two different people: for the first guy there was no printer in his area to do color trapping on-site, so they asked him to do it himself, and no free DTP software supports it; for the second guy the printer demanded CDR (native Corel files) instead of PDF. Point of fact: a really good application should be implying the least dangerous workflow (which is definitely PDF based) while supporting all kinds of perversions. Alexandre ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] GIMP PDF export plugin
Just my two cents; TIFF is more important to GIMP because TIFF is widely used on printing and CG works. Its a common practice to use TIFF images in professional page layout programs like Scribus and Adode InDesign for example. And some 3d programs (like zbrush) use TIFF for export texture maps (in high bit dephs). A better TIFF support would be more in sync with GIMP, me thinks. PS: sorry for any English mistakes. =/ -- Filipe Soares Dilly dilly.carbonmade.com/ ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] GIMP PDF export plugin
Sven wrote: >> bummer about the non-standard, but would industrial-strength TIFF >> in and export not be significantly more in line with our product >> vision than industrial-strength pdf in and export? > > Depends on what gets used nowadays. If professionals are turning away > from TIFF and start to adopt PDF instead, then PDF support would be > more > in line with our product vision. when I wrote the previous message I already knew that this is the only counter-argument that I was going to accept. so now we really need some trend spotting from those in our community who deal with serious printing jobs. and when then moving forward with pdf, we should keep in mind what a GIMP document actually is: a single canvas/image (please do not mention the animation hacks we have...) --ps founder + principal interaction architect man + machine interface works http://mmiworks.net/blog : on interaction architecture ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] GIMP PDF export plugin
Hi, On Sun, 2009-03-22 at 19:33 +0100, peter sikking wrote: > bummer about the non-standard, but would industrial-strength TIFF > in and export not be significantly more in line with our product > vision than industrial-strength pdf in and export? Depends on what gets used nowadays. If professionals are turning away from TIFF and start to adopt PDF instead, then PDF support would be more in line with our product vision. Sven ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
[Gimp-developer] gsoc, Advanced GUI for brush dynamics
Hello to everyone. I'm interested in this project ( no surprise ). I have experience with Gtk and C, and Perl and Gtk. >From the posted idea, I understand that the designer is going to decide what is wanted and for me just to code it ? __off_topic__ I've never used gimp as something more than a paint replacement, so be gentle : ) ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] GIMP PDF export plugin
On Sun, 22 Mar 2009 21:23:24 +0300, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote: > Far more features supported. > > Install Scribus, go to File - Export - Save as PDF, then visit Fonts, > Security, Color [...] I assume it all depends on the application used for .pdf generation. Adobe Distiller (& Acrobat) has a comprehensive set of options. Not 100% sure, but perhaps Ghostscript based applications too, except that the user has to know the Ghostscript parameters (i.e. hard to use for more than basic .pdf generation, but possible). Cristi ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] GIMP PDF export plugin
Sven wrote: > So would you say that it makes more sense to spend time improving the > TIFF save plug-in or would it be a better idea to invest that > development into a powerful PDF export? My experience with TIFF is > that > it is an extremely difficult format as most of the important features > are implemented as some sort of extension that is not part of the TIFF > 6.0 specification. I would hope PDF to be better specified. bummer about the non-standard, but would industrial-strength TIFF in and export not be significantly more in line with our product vision than industrial-strength pdf in and export? --ps founder + principal interaction architect man + machine interface works http://mmiworks.net/blog : on interaction architecture ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] GIMP PDF export plugin
Hi, On Sun, 2009-03-22 at 09:47 -0500, Chris Mohler wrote: > I see two possible use cases: > > 1. Proofing artwork - you need to prepare a proof before going to > press. You send that proof to a client and they print it out and get > a reasonable hard proof. > > 2. Submission to a printing company - you need to submit hi-res > artwork to a printing company. > > For either case to be useful, the PDF export needs to at least > support: CMYK color mode, ICC profiles, spot colors, trim marks, crop > area, and bleed area. Embedding or outlining (vector) fonts, > registration marks, encryption, and downsampling of image/photo layers > could possibly be useful. > > That being said, both use cases would only come about when setting up > a full-color job (CMYK, etc.) - and it is very likely that the > printing company would accept (and perhaps prefer) a hi-res raster > format like TIFF, PNG, or JPEG. Thanks a lot for your input. That was very useful. So would you say that it makes more sense to spend time improving the TIFF save plug-in or would it be a better idea to invest that development into a powerful PDF export? My experience with TIFF is that it is an extremely difficult format as most of the important features are implemented as some sort of extension that is not part of the TIFF 6.0 specification. I would hope PDF to be better specified. Sven ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] GIMP PDF export plugin
2009/3/22 Cristian Secară wrote: > What would be the advantage of handling a .pdf generation at > application level instead of at operating system level ? > (i.e. via print command) Far more features supported. Install Scribus, go to File - Export - Save as PDF, then visit Fonts, Security, Color (make sure you choose "Output intended for: Printer" and enable "Use custom rendering settings" checkbox) and Pre-Press tabs. Alexandre ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] GIMP PDF export plugin
On Sun, 22 Mar 2009 09:47:00 -0500, Chris Mohler wrote: > I see two possible use cases: > > 1. Proofing artwork - you need to prepare a proof before going to > press. [...] > > 2. Submission to a printing company - you need to submit hi-res > artwork to a printing company. > [...] What would be the advantage of handling a .pdf generation at application level instead of at operating system level ? (i.e. via print command) Cristi ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] GIMP PDF export plugin
On Sun, Mar 22, 2009 at 6:19 AM, Sven Neumann wrote: [...] > I don't understand why that is needed. What is our goal here? To create > PDF files as small as possible? IMO the goal for PDF export should be to > improve support for professional printing. File size is not important > for that. Paths are also not important for that. If people need vector > art, then they should use a vector editor. What matters is color > profiles, CMYK color separation in the export process, support for spot > colors, crop marks, ... > > As I said already, we can't discuss the details unless we know what the > goals are. So we need to have one or more user stories for PDF export > first. And we need to check these against our product vision to see if > they are worth supporting. I see two possible use cases: 1. Proofing artwork - you need to prepare a proof before going to press. You send that proof to a client and they print it out and get a reasonable hard proof. 2. Submission to a printing company - you need to submit hi-res artwork to a printing company. For either case to be useful, the PDF export needs to at least support: CMYK color mode, ICC profiles, spot colors, trim marks, crop area, and bleed area. Embedding or outlining (vector) fonts, registration marks, encryption, and downsampling of image/photo layers could possibly be useful. That being said, both use cases would only come about when setting up a full-color job (CMYK, etc.) - and it is very likely that the printing company would accept (and perhaps prefer) a hi-res raster format like TIFF, PNG, or JPEG. I submit PDFs all of the time for proofing and printing but 90% are pure vector, 9% are vector with embedded bitmap images, and only the remaining 1% are completely raster (I've used at least one printing company that accepts pdf *only*). IMHO: Attempting to redraw solid colors as vector would not be a good idea . File size is not really a concern - creating PDFs that print in a reliable manner and are as accurate as possible would be the main challenge. If GIMP comes to support vector layers at some point, then an option to rasterize those layers or keep them as vector should be presented at the time of PDF export. Multi-page is not something that GIMP should worry about at all - there are plenty of tools to join PDFs already, and multi-page documents are more the domain of page layout software. PDF export might be a nice feature, but as a designer I would not use it very often. If I did use it, I would expect it to be *extremely* reliable, and quite verbose about any errors before or during export. Chris ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] GIMP PDF export plugin
Hi, On Sat, 2009-03-21 at 21:36 +0200, LightningIsMyName wrote: > I believe that we should have the option to export multi-paged PDFs, > since we have the option to import them, and to me it makes sense that > we should be able to export what we can import. The whole point of calling it "Import" is to make clear that you can't save this again. > Gimp may not be a > page-layout program, yet doing multi-paged PDFs isn't too hard, and > won't hurt anyone... Of course it would hurt. It binds development resources for creating and maintaining it. If a feature does not fit with our product vision, then we are not going to include it. Doing multi-page PDF export simply because we can do it is not going to happen. What we need here is a user story. Without that, it doesn't make sense to discuss PDF export at all. > And about what you said on page layout tools, there is some sense in > what you said. Therfore, I think it would be indeed simpler to ignore > paths untill gimp has vector layers, since these aren't the main point > of the PDF plugin. The only feature I believe that is necessary, is to > draw single-colored rectangles as drawing and not as bitmap-images > (Imagine a background layer for a large scale image - a bitmap image > can be a big waist of memory). I don't understand why that is needed. What is our goal here? To create PDF files as small as possible? IMO the goal for PDF export should be to improve support for professional printing. File size is not important for that. Paths are also not important for that. If people need vector art, then they should use a vector editor. What matters is color profiles, CMYK color separation in the export process, support for spot colors, crop marks, ... As I said already, we can't discuss the details unless we know what the goals are. So we need to have one or more user stories for PDF export first. And we need to check these against our product vision to see if they are worth supporting. Sven ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
