Re: [Gimp-developer] Graphic Tablet Sponsoring
On Thu, Nov 25, 2010 at 6:48 AM, Patrick Horgan wrote: > On 11/24/2010 03:02 AM, Michael Natterer wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> in order to get gimp properly running with a tablet again, >> and in order to make sure GTK3 does what it should together >> with GIMP, I need a graphics tablet. > What's the problem? I use my Wacom Fun tablet all the time with trunk. Trunk isn't GTK3 yet. But there are plenty of tablet bugs littering GTK2 as well. I'm hoping that when he has the tablet, those might get uprooted too :). There are several major know issues with tablet use right now. a) save dialogs don't work with the tablet pen b) the core device stops working when there is an extended device present, so no mouse when the tablet is cinnected c) the on canvas text widget is only so much hot air for the tablet pen. -- --Alexia ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Graphic Tablet Sponsoring
On 11/24/2010 03:02 AM, Michael Natterer wrote: > Hi all, > > in order to get gimp properly running with a tablet again, > and in order to make sure GTK3 does what it should together > with GIMP, I need a graphics tablet. What's the problem? I use my Wacom Fun tablet all the time with trunk. > Since the GIMP account is full of money, and I don't use > it for anything else that hacking GIMP, I'd like to get > it sponsored. > > There is no GIMP commitee deciding such things, so please > object here, or give an OK if you feel "entitled" to :-) > > It's a Wacom Intuos4 in size A5, around 300€, since that > supports all the stuff we want to support and is not > a piece of garbage. Good idea! Nice tablet. Now I have tablet envy! Patrick ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] unsharp mask
On 11/24/10 17:48, Øyvind Kolås wrote: > On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 4:25 PM, Bill Skaggs wrote: >> Maybe it would help to have a general explanation of the principle behind >> the filter. >> >> The basic idea of the Unsharp Mask is to enhance the difference between the >> original image >> and a blurred version of it. The algorithm first blurs the image, then >> calculates the difference >> between the original image and the blurred version, and then alters the >> original image by >> moving each pixel farther away from its blurred value. >> >> The convolution is simply a way of blurring the image. There are countless >> ways of >> doing a blur -- the filter is using a rather crude approximation of a >> Gaussian blur, which >> is the most commonly used blurring algorithm. > > In GEGL unsharp mask is implemented at a higher level of abstraction > than low-level filters and reuses gaussian blur directly, thus speed > improvements to gaussian blur in GEGL will also benefit unsharp mask > directly. See > http://git.gnome.org/browse/gegl/tree/operations/common/unsharp-mask.c > this version of unsharp mask can already be used in GIMP through the > GEGL-tool, it would probably be good if the unsharp-mask in GIMP was > properly replaced with the GEGL one. > > /Øyvind Kolås Hi Øyvind , congratulations on this solid body of work in designing and building the gegl library. I'm sure it will have a lot of benefit as gimp is slowly migrated to use it. It gives a great opportunity to restructure a code base that has to a large extent grown more by evolution than design. There always comes a point where things need a good shake down. I'm sure gegl migration will provide that opportunity. For unsharp filter , yes it does seem considerably quicker at applying the filter to the whole image than the existing gimp filter but unfortunately it has the do the whole image all the time for the preview. Wouldn't it be better to have a preview window similar to the existing gimp preview which vastly reduces the amount of work needed for a preview and also lets the user focus on a particular zone of interest in the image. Most images have a focal point or some other critical area where any effect needs to be optimised. A shot of a person this will nearly always be the face. How it affects the grass behind the subject is often of much less interest. Being able to work on a close up of a critical part is very valuable. I think the preview is doing far more work than is needed and with high quality images being large this can be quite a drag in previewing different parameter values to adjust the effect. The comment I made earlier about the existing preview and the benefit of caching when flipping the preview on and off applies here also. Even more so really since it is processing the whole image. On a larger image it is simply not possible to flip preview on/off to directly compare the two. It can take 10s to process the image but it needs to be fast. The eye (or the brain) is very good at picking up the slightest difference where an image if flipped like that and it is a useful technique to be able to compare them directly. A couple of quick points in passing: 1/ why is there no threshold slider? How is the threshold determined? This can be a useful control. 2/ I find the slider titles and hint texts very unclear. Std deviation is too specific to the coding implementation and is no help to someone needing to process an image. The hint does not really help clarify. std dev is scale factor , yet scale is strength :? The old "radius" seems clearer in terms of what it does to the image (that there is not a radius in the code is irrelevant). The old "amount" was a pretty unhelpful, muddy term but maybe simply "sharpness" would be better than scale. After all this is all about sharpening the image. Could I suggest : radius : range of the effect sharpness: intensity of effect threshold: sensitivity to detail It looks like the underlying code has now reached a maturity where it could be used full time but I feel that there is a slight regression in the level of control of the parameters and the preview which is, of course, very important in terms of usability. regards, gg/ ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Graphic Tablet Sponsoring
On 11/24/2010 12:02 PM, Michael Natterer wrote: > Hi all, > > in order to get gimp properly running with a tablet again This implies there have been regressions *hint hint* > and in order to make sure GTK3 does what it should together > with GIMP, I need a graphics tablet. > > Since the GIMP account is full of money, and I don't use > it for anything else that hacking GIMP, I'd like to get > it sponsored. > > There is no GIMP commitee deciding such things, so please > object here, or give an OK if you feel "entitled" to :-) Fine with me. Exactly how much money do we have by the way? / Martin -- My GIMP Blog: http://www.chromecode.com/ "Nightly GIMP, GEGL, babl tarball builds" ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
[Gimp-developer] unsharp mask
Now that I look at it, you can probably take out everything related to the ctable variable as well. Basically it looks like it generates a table of values in advance in order to avoid repeat math later, but it never uses it. So this should probably be either finished or removed. The math to generate the values doesn't look more complex than the math to look up the value on a table, so if there's a performance increase it's probably minor. Might be worth checking out though just in case though, since the code is basically already written. -- bioster (via gimpusers.com) ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] unsharp mask
On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 4:25 PM, Bill Skaggs wrote: > Maybe it would help to have a general explanation of the principle behind > the filter. > > The basic idea of the Unsharp Mask is to enhance the difference between the > original image > and a blurred version of it. The algorithm first blurs the image, then > calculates the difference > between the original image and the blurred version, and then alters the > original image by > moving each pixel farther away from its blurred value. > > The convolution is simply a way of blurring the image. There are countless > ways of > doing a blur -- the filter is using a rather crude approximation of a > Gaussian blur, which > is the most commonly used blurring algorithm. In GEGL unsharp mask is implemented at a higher level of abstraction than low-level filters and reuses gaussian blur directly, thus speed improvements to gaussian blur in GEGL will also benefit unsharp mask directly. See http://git.gnome.org/browse/gegl/tree/operations/common/unsharp-mask.c this version of unsharp mask can already be used in GIMP through the GEGL-tool, it would probably be good if the unsharp-mask in GIMP was properly replaced with the GEGL one. /Øyvind Kolås ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] unsharp mask
Maybe it would help to have a general explanation of the principle behind the filter. The basic idea of the Unsharp Mask is to enhance the difference between the original image and a blurred version of it. The algorithm first blurs the image, then calculates the difference between the original image and the blurred version, and then alters the original image by moving each pixel farther away from its blurred value. The convolution is simply a way of blurring the image. There are countless ways of doing a blur -- the filter is using a rather crude approximation of a Gaussian blur, which is the most commonly used blurring algorithm. -- Bill ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
[Gimp-developer] unsharp mask
>On 11/23/2010 06:17 PM, g...@catking.net wrote: >Well at least the image of the metaphor is clear. You >know that if shit hits a fan it's bad, but wrong end of >a stick just isn't as obvious. Well, I think the person who used the expression was being a bit circumspect in order to use cleaner language. Afaik, the "real" expression more along the lines of: getting the shitty end of the stick. If you want to speed up the code a little, I don't see any point to any of the 3 lines that include the variable 'ctable_p' in blur-line() in 'unsharp-mask.c'. It looks to me like just deleting those would eliminate some pointless arithmetic. -- bioster (via gimpusers.com) ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Graphic Tablet Sponsoring
On Wed, 2010-11-24 at 13:09 +0200, Alexia Death wrote: > On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 1:02 PM, Michael Natterer wrote: > > There is no GIMP commitee deciding such things, so please > > object here, or give an OK if you feel "entitled" to :-) > A huge OK by me. > > > It's a Wacom Intuos4 in size A5, around 300€, since that > > supports all the stuff we want to support and is not > > a piece of garbage. > > A small recommendation, get either an artpen or an airbrush with > it(its about 100€ extra), or you cant test the wheel bits. I recommend > the art pen, because it offers some interesting features you'd miss > with airbrush, that is just a regular pen with the wheel on top. That's a good idea, I'll need multiple pens anyway to see if and how they are properly handled as distinct devices. Will get the art pen as you suggested. thanks, --Mitch ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Graphic Tablet Sponsoring
> Von: Michael Natterer > Since the GIMP account is full of money, and I don't use > it for anything else that hacking GIMP, I'd like to get > it sponsored. > > There is no GIMP commitee deciding such things, so please > object here, or give an OK if you feel "entitled" to :-) I feel entitled to OK this, because I've triggered many (most?) of the recent transactions involving GIMP money :) Helping developers to work on GIMP *is* on of the purposes of that money. I can also send the mail to the GNOME treasurer to trigger the reimbursement for your tablet, if you'd feel weird about requesting the money yourself. Should you feel guilty about withdrawing money for something you may benefit from personally, then I'd suggest that you mentor in a future GSoC and let the mentor org share of the stipend rest in the GIMP funds ;) Regards, Michael -- GRATIS! Movie-FLAT mit über 300 Videos. Jetzt freischalten unter http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/maxdome ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Graphic Tablet Sponsoring
OK from me, of course. --tml ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Graphic Tablet Sponsoring
On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 12:02:31PM +0100, Michael Natterer wrote: > Hi all, > > in order to get gimp properly running with a tablet again, > and in order to make sure GTK3 does what it should together > with GIMP, I need a graphics tablet. > > Since the GIMP account is full of money, and I don't use > it for anything else that hacking GIMP, I'd like to get > it sponsored. > > There is no GIMP commitee deciding such things, so please > object here, or give an OK if you feel "entitled" to :-) > > It's a Wacom Intuos4 in size A5, around 300€, since that > supports all the stuff we want to support and is not > a piece of garbage. > > ciao, > --Mitch For what is worth my opinion, I aggree. -- Marco Ciampa ++ | Linux User #78271 | | FSFE fellow #364 | ++ ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Graphic Tablet Sponsoring
On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 11:02 AM, Michael Natterer wrote: > in order to get gimp properly running with a tablet again, > and in order to make sure GTK3 does what it should together > with GIMP, I need a graphics tablet. > > Since the GIMP account is full of money, and I don't use > it for anything else that hacking GIMP, I'd like to get > it sponsored. > > There is no GIMP commitee deciding such things, so please > object here, or give an OK if you feel "entitled" to :-) > > It's a Wacom Intuos4 in size A5, around 300€, since that > supports all the stuff we want to support and is not > a piece of garbage. OK++ (assuming my opinion carries sufficient weight in such matters) I am all for you obtaining a physical artefact reminding you of continued promises to ensure extended input devices of various kinds continue working as expected. /Ø ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Graphic Tablet Sponsoring
On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 1:02 PM, Michael Natterer wrote: > There is no GIMP commitee deciding such things, so please > object here, or give an OK if you feel "entitled" to :-) A huge OK by me. > It's a Wacom Intuos4 in size A5, around 300€, since that > supports all the stuff we want to support and is not > a piece of garbage. A small recommendation, get either an artpen or an airbrush with it(its about 100€ extra), or you cant test the wheel bits. I recommend the art pen, because it offers some interesting features you'd miss with airbrush, that is just a regular pen with the wheel on top. -- --Alexia ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
[Gimp-developer] Graphic Tablet Sponsoring
Hi all, in order to get gimp properly running with a tablet again, and in order to make sure GTK3 does what it should together with GIMP, I need a graphics tablet. Since the GIMP account is full of money, and I don't use it for anything else that hacking GIMP, I'd like to get it sponsored. There is no GIMP commitee deciding such things, so please object here, or give an OK if you feel "entitled" to :-) It's a Wacom Intuos4 in size A5, around 300€, since that supports all the stuff we want to support and is not a piece of garbage. ciao, --Mitch ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
