Re: [Gimp-developer] [...@backstopmedia.com: writing opportunity for Backstop Media]
Nevermind, he found someone to write it. On Thu, May 20, 2010 at 01:38:25AM -0400, Tom Rathborne wrote: > I'm totally not qualified for this, but maybe some developer wants > $500 to regurgitate the developer documentation ...? > > - Forwarded message from Bob Herbstman - > > > Subject: writing opportunity for Backstop Media > > Date: Mon, 10 May 2010 09:01:19 -0700 > > From: Bob Herbstman > > To: t...@aceldama.com > > > > Hi Tom - > > > > I'm a partner at Backstop Media (http://www.backstopmedia.com) and I found > > your resume online. We're looking for someone with your background to write > > a work for hire article for IBM developerWorks on the following topic: > > > > Title: Modifying the Open Source GIMP image editor > > > > Summary of content: > > After having read the article, the reader will be familiar with how the > > millions of lines of the large GIMP code base is structured, where the key > > modules live, and consequently how to approach the code base when > > wanting to perform advanced additions or modifications to it. > > > > Articles run about 2,500-3,000 words and we typically pay $500. We would > > need to have this piece written by the end of May so please let me know > > if you'd be interested as soon as possible. > > > > Thanks, Bob > > > > Bob Herbstman > > Backstop Media > > - End forwarded message - -- -- Tom Rathborne --- Deputy Metaphor Analyst -- A man is like a rusty wheel on a rusty cart He sings his song as he rattles along and then he falls apart. -- Richard Thompson, "We Sing Hallelujah" ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
[Gimp-developer] [...@backstopmedia.com: writing opportunity for Backstop Media]
I'm totally not qualified for this, but maybe some developer wants $500 to regurgitate the developer documentation ...? - Forwarded message from Bob Herbstman - > Subject: writing opportunity for Backstop Media > Date: Mon, 10 May 2010 09:01:19 -0700 > From: Bob Herbstman > To: t...@aceldama.com > > Hi Tom - > > I'm a partner at Backstop Media (http://www.backstopmedia.com) and I found > your resume online. We're looking for someone with your background to write > a work for hire article for IBM developerWorks on the following topic: > > Title: Modifying the Open Source GIMP image editor > > Summary of content: > After having read the article, the reader will be familiar with how the > millions of lines of the large GIMP code base is structured, where the key > modules live, and consequently how to approach the code base when > wanting to perform advanced additions or modifications to it. > > Articles run about 2,500-3,000 words and we typically pay $500. We would > need to have this piece written by the end of May so please let me know > if you'd be interested as soon as possible. > > Thanks, Bob > > Bob Herbstman > Backstop Media > - End forwarded message - -- -- Tom Rathborne - Ad-hoc Human Director -- A goal without a plan is just a wish. -- Antoine de Saint Exup??ry ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Invoking custom Gimp module from Web (Apache)
On Sun, Oct 04, 2009 at 04:33:28PM -0400, Vio wrote: > You're right. Keeping a running Gimp daemon in memory would most > certainly speed things up (for subsequent calls) This worked very well with gimp-perl and mod_perl 10 years ago. It was relatively easy to establish a persistent connection from mod_perl to the gimp-perl server. Just as in database connections, each Apache child maintained a socket connection to gimp-perl. It's just a matter of sorting out the socket permissions, as you have learned. For security purposes, I ran gimp as a different user, but granted permissions on the socket to www-data, and allowed gimp to write to a specific directory in the document root to enable caching of output images. The performance was amazing, even 10 years ago. I'm not sure if gimp-python has a similar server mode, but if it does, I'm sure that mod_python could cache the connections for similar performance levels. Cheers, Tom -- -- Tom Rathborne -- The most perfidious way of harming a cause consists of defending it deliberately with faulty arguments. -- Friedrich Nietzsche ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] We should go for a single-window mode in 2.8
Hi Peter, On Fri, Sep 18, 2009 at 07:26:10PM +0200, peter sikking wrote: > I have now blogged about the single-window mode: > > <http://www.mmiworks.net/eng/publications/2009/09/gimp-single-mode.html> Great ideas! I won't be a single-window mode user, mainly because my window manager doesn't suck, but I would use tabs in multiple-window-mode. (With no tabset displayed when there's only one tab in a window, to maintain the current compact display!) Cheers, Tom -- -- Tom Rathborne -- When you are about to do an objective and scientific piece of investigation of a topic, it is well to have the answer firmly in hand, so that you can proceed forthrightly, without being deflected or swayed, directly to the goal. -- Amrom Katz ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] We should go for a single-window mode in 2.8
Hi Jolie,
On Sun, Sep 20, 2009 at 01:00:15PM +0200, jolie S wrote:
> When I work in GIMP what happens to me quite a lot is that I click
> just next to a window of an image I'm working on and all my GIMP
> windows are not shown on my screen anymore because I activated the
> application I had visibly open below the GIMP windows.
Many good tips have been offered for this problem. Here's my solution:
Never put one application window on top of another!
I use virtual desktops ("workspaces") and dedicate a workspace to each
application. If I ever need another application to share a workspace
with GIMP, for example for drag-n-drop, I bring it into the GIMP
workspace, do the d-n-d, and send it back home.
(I also use focus-follows mouse and no-autoraise :) )
HTH.
Tom
--
-- Tom Rathborne --
If everybody minded their own business,
the world would go around a deal faster.
-- The Duchess, "Through the Looking Glass"
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[Gimp-developer] Another Investment Route
Woo -- there's now USD $23.97 behind the project of adding a loupe: http://www.fossfactory.org/project/p132 I'd like to see a stub Loupe Tool in the GIMP ... if the user selects the tool, their browser is sent to the above page. This could be done for other often-requested features. If the feature appears in the menu, but just points to a URL, then there is a quick way for users to indicate their desire for the feature, and even put $ behind their desire. When the feature is implemented, it replaces the link to the FOSS Factory page. This needn't be FOSS Factory -- obviously Bugzilla is the canonical collection of feature requests, and a link to funding-oriented sites can go in the Bugzilla comments. Bugzilla would of course need a slight enhancement, to count the number of users who hit the page from inside GIMP, and ensure that they don't post a ME TOO comment. It seems to me that this would help to prioritize Bugzilla feature requests based on the usage of all users, rather than just the vocal ones, as it is now. Cheers, Tom On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 04:02:00PM -0400, Tom Rathborne wrote: > FOSS Factory is making a business of aggregating sponsorship for > Open Source projects. To get the ball rolling, they asked me to > select some GIMP bugs and link them to FOSS Factory projects. I have > done that for the following bugs: > > GIMP Bug 61019 – add a 'lock' flag per layer to protect it > http://www.fossfactory.org/project.php?p=p131 > > GIMP Bug 421211 – add a pop-up loupe > http://www.fossfactory.org/project.php?p=p132 > > I also posted this information to the bugzilla pages, so everyone > interested in these particular bugs has been notified. Hopefully > this will attract a bit of money that will attract a new or existing > developer to these long-standing enhancement requests. -- -- Tom Rathborne -- It is never too late to be what you might have been. -- George Eliot ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
[Gimp-developer] Bugs 61019 and 421211 on FOSS Factory
Hi all, FOSS Factory is making a business of aggregating sponsorship for Open Source projects. To get the ball rolling, they asked me to select some GIMP bugs and link them to FOSS Factory projects. I have done that for the following bugs: GIMP Bug 61019 – add a 'lock' flag per layer to protect it http://www.fossfactory.org/project.php?p=p131 GIMP Bug 421211 – add a pop-up loupe http://www.fossfactory.org/project.php?p=p132 I also posted this information to the bugzilla pages, so everyone interested in these particular bugs has been notified. Hopefully this will attract a bit of money that will attract a new or existing developer to these long-standing enhancement requests. Cheers, Tom -- -- Tom Rathborne -- I have a theory that it's impossible to prove anything, but I can't prove it. ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Wanted: pixel warrior drones
On Mon, Mar 04, 2002 at 04:10:39AM -0500, vio wrote: > After browsing the gimp-1.3 TODO list, I would like to add my little > suggestion of things I would wish from Gimp: how about also > developing a clear path towards Gimp as a "web graphics server". This already exists if you are willing to jump through a few hoops, but you may have to wait for Gimp-2.0 to lose the dependence on X and Gtk+. Hopefully Gimp-1.3 will make more functions available via the PDB, but it's already pretty complete. If you use the Gimp-Perl extension with Apache's mod_perl, you get a persistent connection to a running GIMP (currently in an Xvfb, which is no big deal IMHO). Here's what I wrote and presented in Manchester last summer: http://www.aceldama.com/~tomr/papers/2001/web-gimp/ It's currently running at: http://gimp.aceldama.com/ (only the titles are made by The GIMP, but they're cached fairly effectively) (ooh, and the navigation thingy is automagically generated) The above is on a headless Apple Network Server running LinuxPPC 1999 Q3, and I got it working on Wilber (a Debian x86 box), so it's *reasonably* portable; I don't think I did anything too Linux-specific. There's no reason that such Gimp-Perl calls couldn't be used with the various mod_perl-based template systems already. (Perhaps with a bit of futzing). That's my 2 cents on all this. Cheers, Tom -- -- Tom Rathborne [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.aceldama.com/~tomr/ Most people can't understand how others can blow their noses differently than they do. -- Turgenev ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Use of PHP-templates @ new Gimp.org
Marc; On Thu, May 31, 2001 at 12:53:52AM +0200, Marc Lehmann wrote: > On Thu, May 31, 2001 at 12:49:41AM +0200, Simon Budig <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >wrote: > > than a PHP-Page which -- for a > > more advanced system -- looks more like a program than a > > content-container. > Which is why a content management system would be nice. people tend > to be less reluctant to add content when it's as easy as starting a > webbrowser. And there are content-management system that let some > people create content, lets others translate them and third ones > style them and yet another group program things (like my PApp ;) So, can we use PApp? Tom -- Tom Rathborne [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.aceldama.com/~tomr/ "For as long as space endures, and for as long as living beings remain, until then may I, too, abide, to dispel the misery of the world" - The Dalai Lama ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Use of PHP-templates @ new Gimp.org
On Thu, May 31, 2001 at 12:49:41AM +0200, Simon Budig wrote: > Martijn Weisbeek ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: > > So I also read some people mentioned PHP's spaghetti-like nature. > > However, I also like to state that using PHP will enable a lot > > more programmers to be able to contribute. > Sorry - but at this point I have to interrupt you. We probably don't > need "programmers". Our main concern has to be content. The average > programmer (including me) would give you lots of template-systems > based on PHP/Perl/Zope/Whatever and is totally happy that there are > 1000 ways to do this. But the content that comes from these people > is mostly crap - have a look at Tom's demo site ;-) Exactly! So far I have just been converting content from the current site, because I'm not a very good technical writer. > So we have to be careful not to scare away the people that actually > can deliver the content of the site. IMHO it is way better to have a > > than a PHP-Page which -- for a more advanced system -- looks more > like a program than a content-container. I made the headers and footers implicit because I know people are bad at putting that stuff at the top/bottom of every page. I also made it impossible to write programs in the content because I think that's a bad idea. Of course, you do have to put some human-readable settings thingies at the top of every file to get useful headers & navigation. This also (fortunately) makes it impossible to update pages with an WYSIWYG HTML editor :) Cheers, Tom -- Tom Rathborne [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.aceldama.com/~tomr/ "For as long as space endures, and for as long as living beings remain, until then may I, too, abide, to dispel the misery of the world" - The Dalai Lama ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] GIMP website project planning
Tuomas; I wish I was Finnish so I could be a Tuomas instead of a Thomas. On Sun, May 27, 2001 at 11:29:58AM +0300, Tuomas Kuosmanen wrote: > On 25 May 2001 23:58:43 -0400, Tom Rathborne wrote: > > think about it for a bit and let me know if there's anyone you know > > who has time to do any technical/design/content _and_ make sure > > that nothing is dropped on the floor. > Now, I could be interested in the design front, since I somehow > think the only way to make this new site happen is to take some > responsibility on it, and make it happen together instead of just. > Just discussing it wont make it happen, no matter how good opinions > are voiced :-) I agree entirely - but I'm just doing _my_ technical stuff and it's not worth much unless other people are doing the other bits in concert. > Tom: To avoid the original problem with the current site, does your > perl thingy have good docs so people can learn it and maybe try it > out on their machines to get an idea how it works, in case it needs > to be expanded or developed further in the future and for some > reason you dont have the possibility to do it? The docs are a bit sketchy at the moment, but I _have_ been able to install it myself in under an hour now so it's obviously not intractably hairy. I will be documenting it for my article so you can expect some fairly thorough docs by the end of July at the _very_ latest. > I like the content separation in it, but I am worried a bit about > this side. Me too. That's why I'm not pushing _too_ hard to use it. I want everyone to be aware as they put their head through the noose ... erm nevermind. > Not that PHP is the Holy Grail in this, no way. More likely the Ugly > Bowl of Spaghetti unless someone coordinates it as well. But it is > easier to find people who can cook more spaghetti of course.. I am > not really sure. I would vote for the PHP if there was someone to > look after the code. Right - so it's a matter of can we find _someone_ to take care of the tends-to-get-messy PHP code, or is Tom going to stick around to take care of his neater-but-obtuse Perl stuff? A nasty dilemma to be sure. > In that sense Tom's perl thing looks more easy to work with, but > we'd need docs - and it will be harder to expand should we need to > add some new functionality, unless Tom is around to do it. And this > was what we wanted to avoid in the first place. Docs will be on the way but folks may want to make a decision before the docs are in a state to inspire confidence. It's pretty easy to add a new handler type to my stuff. The handlers just get a page object (which is how you output stuff), a filehandle (which is reading from the current file), and $%args (which is a bunch of settings). You just have to interpret the stuff in the file a certain polite way, and output stuff through the page object in a certain way. There are a lot of black boxes that keep things simple; for example the entire Yahoo-style links-from-database viewing handler is less than 90 lines of code (with a bunch of blank lines but few comments). Needless to say the devil is in the details -- but I try to keep the details in one place and not all over the document tree. Cheers, Tom -- --Tom Rathborne[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- http://www.aceldama.com/~tomr/ --"I seem to be having tremendous difficulty with my life-style." ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
[Gimp-developer] GIMP website project planning
Hi folks. Let me start with a joke. How do you recognize a Canadian in a crowd? You step on his foot and he says "Oh, I'm sorry..." We're not all _that_ conciliatory, but there is something to the stereotype. There has been a _lot_ of talk about doing a new website at www.gimp.org recently. A lot of opinions have been put forth. Many fragments of proposals have been made. I have a sense that there is consensus on many high-level issues. Everyone seems to agree that: - Something should be done. - It's important to plan things out in advance. - We need to decide the _goals_ of the site. - The HTML on the site should be standards-compliant. - The HTML on the site should work with any somewhat-modern browser. - The code that runs the site should be separate from the content. - Lots of other things :) There's also a pretty good list of things to do at: http://home.bn-paf.de/smokey/gimp_org/ It seems to me - and to many others, I imagine - that we're actually stuck hard on the first unfinished item: "Get together a lot of people" We do have a lot of people who are interested here on the mailing list, but nobody has stepped up to take command of this project. It seems to me that that's what we need to get this show on the road. Once someone is in charge - not a webmaster, a coordinator, just to get the new site together. Someone without any agenda or preferences aside from making the best damn GIMP site. I'm not a big fan of people-hierarchies, but here goes: - Coordinator to coordinate all these folks: - Technical back-end person Code modules may be assigned to others - Content manager/editor Sections of site assigned to others - Design/layout person Icons/etc. could be assigned to others but the final layout would have to go through the main layout person cooperating with the technical back-end person. - System manager We need someone with root on wilber to help set up groups and install packages and all that. i.e. a single point of contact for wilber admin. So far yosh has filled this role for me quite well. Now, I know most of us here are hackers and before you go killfiling and /ignoring me for suggesting that there should be a manager, just think about it for a bit and let me know if there's anyone you know who has time to do any technical/design/content _and_ make sure that nothing is dropped on the floor. I don't know of anyone at the moment. I have an agenda, and I'm not going to hide it. I'm building this template system because I want to. I've been building systems like this for 5 years now and I think this one is the least flawed I've ever constructed. I think it is in line with most of the goals that we all share, so I'm building a GIMP site with it. I'm writing a paper on it and presenting it in Manchester at the end of June. Those are my own personal & immediate goals. They are not necessarily in conflict with getting the GIMP website moving, but they _are_ in conflict with me leading or dealing with content or design. So. Here we go: I'd like to nominate Carol Spears <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> to the position of coordinator. She seems really determined to help us all sort this out, and she doesn't know enough about anything to have a too-strong opinion. Yes, that's a complement, Carol - we need people like you! Having someone like Carol around - just like these "users" we keep talking about for the GIMP application - will ensure that we can, to some extent, explain/justify our choices and problems to a layperson. That has always helped me to clarify implementation issues. Carol is good at asking questions and making suggestions. I nominate myself to the position of Technical person. I would be glad to coordinate anyone who wants to help out in that regard and of course show the Content and Design folks how easy it is to do their stuff. I also nominate Michael Spunt and the GUG folks to the position of Technical person. I think that once we have a content tree in place we can nominate TigerT and others to come up with an appropriate design. I nominate yosh to the undemanding position of Sysadmin attache. I would now like to open nominations to anyone else. Feel free to nominate yourself or decline your nomination. Once we have a list of, say, at least 3 nominees for each position - and of course we may want to revise the number of people and/or their responsibilities - we can have a vote. Let's say that the voting system is ... you rank all candidates (0 being most preferred, going up by 1) and the candidate with the lowest score for each position wins. Geeky+simple enough? If something doesn't get decided soon, I will take my template system back to theory-land so I can get
Re: [Gimp-developer] The GIMP Webpage
On Fri, May 25, 2001 at 02:01:42PM +0200, Ingo Luetkebohle wrote: > Tuomas Kuosmanen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Anyway. like Christoph said, the all most important thing is to > > get the people to do it. > > I volunteer to work on the development side. > > As for the technical side, I leave that up the folks on this list to > decide. My only strong urge is to use some means of seperating > content from code. Apache Cocoon is nice but if that seems overkill, > I have had good experiences with JSP tag libraries. Similiar > concepts are probably available for other languages. I'm had good experiences with mod_perl (well in particular my stuff). Others have had good experiences with PHP and probably Apache::Mason and ::EmbPerl and stuff. On Fri, May 25, 2001 at 03:33:07PM +0200, Christoph Rauch wrote: > Great!!! But IMHO we should limit the languages used, because of > maintainablity. So the decision of what language to be used should > be in the hands of the developers. > > Regarding content/code seperation: it's the only way to go. There > are many ways to do it, and we should take a path where someone who > doesnt know anything about coding, but is a master in HTML and > design can change the site-layout. I have this in theory, but not necessarily in practice :) Cheers, Tom -- Tom Rathborne [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.aceldama.com/~tomr/ | I know I've made some very poor decisions recently, but I can give you my | H complete assurance that my work will be back to normal. I've still got the | A greatest enthusiasm and confidence in the mission, and I want to help you. | L ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] The GIMP Webpage
On Fri, May 25, 2001 at 04:50:05AM -0400, Michael Spunt wrote: > I've hacked some lines right now, maybe you (and others) would like to > see it. Unfortunately, my f2s MySQL won't be available until 9:30am GMT, > so I had to test it at home. Anyway, these are the URLs: > http://www.technoid.f2s.com/news.gif > http://www.technoid.f2s.com/news.php.txt > > The latter is the source code. No OOP, almost no functions, pure > junk code. Sorry for GIF guys and girls! :-) Tell me, if you'd like > to see the MySQL structure, too. Umm, see, this is what worries me. code and HTML all interspersed. I just can't deal with that and I have the impression that lots of folks here have been through that nightmare many times. Can you restructure it to get that design/code/content separation going? On Fri, May 25, 2001 at 07:12:26AM +0200, Stefan Stiasny wrote: > talking about source code is probably not appropriate in this > stage... but if we really want to have any dynamic sites i would > urge to use xml/xsl transformation or another kind of templating > system... mixing contents, code and design is just a nightmare to > maintain. That whole XML/XSL is snake oil IMHO. It just seems like it's trying to do a little bit too much. Cheers, Tom -- Tom Rathborne [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.aceldama.com/~tomr/ | I know I've made some very poor decisions recently, but I can give you my | H complete assurance that my work will be back to normal. I've still got the | A greatest enthusiasm and confidence in the mission, and I want to help you. | L ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] New GIMP Webpage the 2nd
On Thu, May 24, 2001 at 04:46:21PM +0800, Malcolm Tredinnick wrote:
> On Thu, May 24, 2001 at 11:28:57AM +0300, Ville Pätsi wrote:
> > Uhm. Funny enough, right now there is a big discussion in
> > gnome-webmaster list about wml.
>
> It's not just on gnome-webmaster -- it's raging across a number of
> Gnome lists. In amongst some of the crazed hand waving and finger
> pointing one of the good points raised that hasn't been mentioned
> here (at least, not clearly) is standards compliance.
>
> Some of the complaints about the current Gnome site and it's
> potential replacement is how to ensure that it is possible for
> people to validate that what they are about to commit will generate
> valid HTML. Here "valid" means conforming to the W3C standard for
> whichever version of HTML is chosen and also passing through
> something like htmltidy without complaint. The former is obvious,
> the latter maybe not so common (try running the current
> www.gimp.org/index.html through tidy -- lots of warnings).
>
> That greatly increases the chances that whatever you have will
> degrade nicely to different browsers.
I am unfortunately _very_ out of touch with web standards - I
preferred HTML in about 1995. I think it's safe to say that however
this gets done, the HTML in the "content" should be limited to ,
, , , , and everything else should come from a template,
one way or another.
On Fri, May 25, 2001 at 02:20:24PM +0300, Tuomas Kuosmanen wrote:
> But the first thing to think about is NOT how it looks. It is what
> we want to put there, what the users need, and how to organize it
> nicely so it will serve the needs of the users and the Gimp project.
I've tried to build things so that these decisions can be made in
parallel - that is, if we decide to stick with the simple left-side
tree-style navigation, what actually appears in the tree can be
changed without much worry.
> Once we have some serious stuff done on that area, I can even see if
> could put some "free time" aside for doing the look, if you want.
Cool, I was hoping you would say that.
> > 1. dynamic - php/*sql - easy to code, offers many possibilities, we use
> > it at the GUG and it's excellent for those purposes IMHO
> Beware that PHP can get slow under heavy load if you dont do it right.
> It is very easy to have all kinds of stupid spaghetti tricks there, as
> well as get lost in the table labyrinth when you include stuff a lot.
Yes. That's why my Perl stuff has a _very_ short path to decide
whether there is a cached copy of the page -- then the spaghetti can
commence for the unlucky soul who is the first to visit a page that
has just been edited. :)
> It is easy to generate static pages via Cron if it becomes a problem
> though. ("snarf http://www.gimp.org/dynamic.html static.html")
Indeed - when global changes are made to the site, I nuke all the
cached files and use a recursive wget to force a regeneration.
Cheers,
Tom
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Tom Rathborne [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.aceldama.com/~tomr/ |
I know I've made some very poor decisions recently, but I can give you my | H
complete assurance that my work will be back to normal. I've still got the | A
greatest enthusiasm and confidence in the mission, and I want to help you. | L
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Re: [Gimp-developer] The GIMP Webpage
Michael! On Fri, May 25, 2001 at 01:44:05AM -0400, Michael Spunt wrote: > On Thu, 24 May 2001 19:11:00 -0400 Tom Rathborne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > That's a neat design, but you're doing all this funky stylesheet stuff > > that leaves me with a bad font! Please don't change my font on me! > As I've already written some mails before, the design is nor > significant, nor final, nor useful, I just don't like plain HTML > when I work on something. Sorry for the CSS but it's readable in > Opera + Mozilla under Linux and MSIE5.5 + Netscape 6 under Windows > and doesn't use any "funky stuff". The CSS is also just temporary > and "funky stuff" is yet to come from interface designers! :-) Alright, I _was_ being a bastard. My design is pretty disgusting for other reasons anyway :) > > Also, what's with this? > > http://www.technoid.f2s.com/gimp.org/index.php?nav=doc > > A query in the URL for a static document?? > > [skipped some stuff] > > I think you stick to much to the "ugly URL" thing. I've used just one > file for the whole "engine" (if you can call it like that so far) > because I can edit one file to change the whole look. This isn't that > important, only a small detail which can change and isn't worth > discussing! Also, you can make /download/ point to > /gimp.org/1337/engine/version02/download/index.php?nav=stable&version=10 > without letting the user see that. Anyway, I cannot do that with my web > hoster. That's a very good point, yes... but I still prefer getting the URLs right the first time. > > Compare: > > http://www.technoid.f2s.com/gimp.org/index.php?nav=doc&page=tutorials > > http://wilber.gimp.org:8192/docs/user/tutorials/ > Do you know f2s? It is an ISP who also provides free web space to > poor people like me. ;-) I haven't got nor shells, nor CVS nor > something-i-forgot-to-mention, you've got almost root on gimp.org. I > think any comparison is futile... Also, we are wasting time on > discussing stuff like this without coming any further. Maybe your > engine is really "phat" but unfortunately I can't recognize > significant changes compared to the current one. Actually my engine is just a pet project ... I have been doing web template systems for years and I decided to get around to making one with a few less flaws. I agree that this bickering is a bit of a waste of time, but we _do_ need to come to a consensus sooner or later. > Anyway, tomorrow I'll possibly get access to MySQL on f2s so you can > test my news code. I'm looking forward to it! Cheers, Tom -- Tom Rathborne [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.aceldama.com/~tomr/ | I know I've made some very poor decisions recently, but I can give you my | H complete assurance that my work will be back to normal. I've still got the | A greatest enthusiasm and confidence in the mission, and I want to help you. | L ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Re: The GIMP Webpage
Guillermo - On Fri, May 25, 2001 at 01:31:15AM +0200, Guillermo S. Romero / Familia Romero wrote: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] (2001-05-24 at 1911.00 -0400): > > Actually, in my system, all of my URLs are _already_ nice and > > clean, with full functionality. :) > Just a doubt... all lower case or mixed case URLs? I think lower > case it better, easier to remember, no special tricks, ie when you > write with block letters in a paper it is hard (I underline > "capitals" as personal trick), or when telling another person about > a URL it avoids you (and the audience specially) some pains. Good point. I try to keep them composed of all lowercase letters. However, some uppercase and underscores snuck in under: http://wilber.gimp.org:8192/links/ ... because those section names come out of the database. I'll be sure to remove uppercase and underscores next time I'm working on the link database code. Cheers, Tom -- Tom Rathborne [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.aceldama.com/~tomr/ | I know I've made some very poor decisions recently, but I can give you my | H complete assurance that my work will be back to normal. I've still got the | A greatest enthusiasm and confidence in the mission, and I want to help you. | L ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] The GIMP Webpage
Folks - On Wed, May 23, 2001 at 02:17:25PM +0200, Christoph Rauch wrote: > Tom Rathborne schrieb: > > > So this really could have been a "chicken and egg" problem. > > Yes, it seemed very "chicken and egg" to me. That's why I just > > started doing something on my own. I have already made about half > > of the decisions in Christoph's excellent list -- but I doubt that > > most people will agree with all of those decisions. Maybe someone > > will find _something_ useful in what I have done. > Then please share your decisions you have done so far. Describe what > language do you use, what layout, andsoon. We could then avoid > making duplicate efforts. > > I will then put up a second list with "done-so-fars" and "todos". Nobody's decided to do anything with my system so don't take any of my decisions as final! *grin* > Another thing that comes to my mind is i10n. When designing the > content-enginge one should keep that in mind. We could have a > documents in various languages on one page. The language would be > selected by the browsers preferences. As Raphael pointed out, Apache does this very nicely. I suspect that my stuff would have to be hacked on a bit more to be internationalized properly ... but not a whole lot more. On Wed, May 23, 2001 at 05:13:54PM +0200, Christoph Rauch wrote: > I have updated my lists at http://home.bn-paf.de/smokey/gimp_org/ Here are the choices that I've made: > 3. Go through various planning stages and then start working. > 1. Layout > 1. How should the site look like (look and feel) > 1. Appearance > 1. Clean and cool > 2. Dark and dirty > 3. Nice and fluffy > 4. other idea... Pink and cyan pastels with titles that look like silly putty. However, it's pretty simple to change that and then nuke all the cached content pages and have a new look for the site. > 2. In-detail design > 1. Mark of links going to off-site pages. > 2. Icons > 3. Style-sheets > 4. lots of other stuff... Most of this stuff falls into the category of 'content', really. > 2. Do we need a new logo for the site? > 1. Something with Wilber? > 2. Something like the current splash-screen? Good idea. > 3. How do we structure the site? > 1. New directory layout? > 2. Navigation > 3. Useability > 4. Accessability > 5. (insert your favourite buzzword here :-)) I like my navigation layout - expanding tree with bold indicating current path and an arrow indicating the current page. It looks ok on Lynx and w3m and a bunch of graphical browsers. > 2. Software > 1. What do we want to do? > 1. Post News, Articles, ChangeLogs We can grab the news in RDF format from Xach's site, but yes, in general, there should be a system to help us manage articles. > 2. Show The GIMPto new users > 3. Provide the users with: > 1. Tutorials > 2. Plugins > 3. Scripts, Perls, and other FUs > 4. Source Code / Binaries > 5. Palettes / Textures / and so on Yes, there should be a resource management system. > 4. Be able to change parts of the site without having to >learn all the website-code. Got that. > 2. What do we NOT want to do? > 1. Become a "programmer-page" with no look, but lots of > functions. > 2. Become a fscking portal which does everything except > cooking good coffee. I do have a Yahoo-style link database, which I think is worth having, but I agree that it shouldn't be a portal. > 3. Leave the web-site as it is today. > 3. How do we want it to be done? > 1. Stick with current system > 1. Reevaluate It's not that bad, but not very much fun to look at. > 2. Install a new Apache with certain modules > 1. Use a CMS (Content Management System... buzzbuzz! ;-)) > 1. Which one? CVS. :) > 2. Code it for ourself > 1. Active HTML > 1. Perl (mod_perl) I'm using mod_perl along with my own template and page generation/caching system. > 2. Python > 3. PHP > 4. Use templates! (Seperate code and HTML) Yes! My stuff keeps the Perl in .pm files where it belon
Re: [Gimp-developer] The GIMP Webpage
; Corel below). > > There is always mod_rewrite. This way we can "beautify" the URLs, > > without disturbing functionality from the developer side. > Yes, of course. But it could be even better if most of the site > could be based on static files that are generated once (by applying > some templates around the CVS files), so that the pages do not have > to be re-generated for every request. This reduces the load on the > server, and more importantly this ensures that all pages can be > cached, both in the user's browser cache and in large caching > proxies. My stuff does this :) > Most information that is provided on the gimp.org web site is static > anyway. It does not need to be updated frequently (except for the > news section, but even that is not updated more than once per day) > and we do not need dynamic elements. This could change if we > introduce a web-based discussion forum or some online polls, but > there is already the GUG site for that so this is not needed on the > main gimp site. So I think that a system that generates static > pages from a set of templates would be well suited to the gimp.org > web site. As far as I know, this is already what is done, even if > it is done by a collection of dirty hacks. Yes, and I believe that my hacks are a little bit less dirty, and easier for content editors to work with. Feel free to explore stuff at: http://wilber.gimp.org:8192/aux/ > So I do not care if nobody says: "Wow, what a nice design!" when > viewing the gimp.org site, but I hope that many will say: "Wow, I > did not know that I could do this with the Gimp!" or even: "Wow, > this Gimp program seems to be easier to use and more powerful than > my current software." For example: I have a GIMP process on wilber that generates title images, and of course they are only made the first time a new page is loaded. I think that's pretty nifty. Can Photoshop do that? :) On Wed, May 23, 2001 at 10:23:57AM -0500, Miles O'Neal wrote: > I know, I know. Since we're probably going to rewrite the site in > something less arcane and more known, now is the ideal time to > revamp the look and feel. Let's just make sure it's worth the > effort, and we don't lose things - like the top notch menu system, > etc. What do you think of the nav at http://wilber.gimp.org:8192/links/ Miles? On Wed, May 23, 2001 at 02:35:28PM -0400, Adrian Likins wrote: > I'm not picky about the backend, the language, the look, etc. I > think the primary goal should be to make it easy to keep the content > up to date, and make adding/editing content as easy as possible. The > perceived difficulty in keeping content up to date was the downfall > of the old site. I like to think that the stuff I've thrown together satisifes these goals quite well. The template language is purposely limited - in particular, it's not Turing complete (unless you count the Perl callbacks). The navigation is generated by a script that traverses all of the static pages (plus pages from the database!), so adding a page is a simple matter of making a new file and putting some content in it. Right now the navigation generator has to be run manually but there's no reason it couldn't be run as a cron job or whenever someone checks a new file into CVS. Anyway if you want to stare at the code or the raw input pages they're all visible at: http://wilber.gimp.org:8192/aux/ Cheers, Tom -- Tom Rathborne [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.aceldama.com/~tomr/ | I know I've made some very poor decisions recently, but I can give you my | H complete assurance that my work will be back to normal. I've still got the | A greatest enthusiasm and confidence in the mission, and I want to help you. | L ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] The GIMP Webpage
On Wed, May 23, 2001 at 12:02:05AM +0200, Christoph Rauch wrote: > > > I think it's a great step in the right direction. The gimp.org > > > discussion ist really not young and hasn't shown any visible > > > results yet. The Gimp User Group has been aiming at redesigning > > > (both content and appearance) of gimp.org for a long while and > > > we would appreciate to see final decisions to start working. > > well, you will not see final decisions until we see a proposal how > > you want to do the new site. I hope that now that this discussion > > came up again, a bunch of people will get together, discuss the > > topic and settle on the infrastructure they want to use and start > > implementing it... > So this really could have been a "chicken and egg" problem. Yes, it seemed very "chicken and egg" to me. That's why I just started doing something on my own. I have already made about half of the decisions in Christoph's excellent list -- but I doubt that most people will agree with all of those decisions. Maybe someone will find _something_ useful in what I have done. Cheers, Tom -- Tom Rathborne [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.aceldama.com/~tomr/ | I know I've made some very poor decisions recently, but I can give you my | H complete assurance that my work will be back to normal. I've still got the | A greatest enthusiasm and confidence in the mission, and I want to help you. | L ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Re: web site
On Tue, May 22, 2001 at 02:11:32AM +0200, Sven Neumann wrote: > Updating the current website will certainly help a new website > design too since it will most probably base its content on the old > site. Yes, that's what I've been doing at http://wilber.gimp.org:8192/ On Tue, May 22, 2001 at 11:21:14AM +0200, Jens Lautenbacher wrote: > I think this is desperately needed. At least until someone has come > up with a working new system, we should fix the worst stuff on the > old site A very good point. I am just dropping stale/broken content right now. > Unfortunately the web site is held together with some propietary > strange brew of elisp code and templates some strange guy once > invented (upps, I just remember, that was me). Yes, it's actually scarier than my mod_perl stuff -- at least from a content-writer or designer's standpoint. Of course my stuff is scarier from a programmer's perspective. *grin* > This is for sure part of the problem someone has who just wants to > update some parts of the site. For boring static content, my template system looks _much_ cleaner. I now have a Yahoo-style link database on a Postgres database working at: http://wilber.gimp.org:8192/links/ Of course there are no interesting links yet, and there is no editing interface for the links ... but it works. I am very happy to point out that the navigation on the left-hand side of the page is generated from the titles of static pages and from the Postgres database. The navigation-tree-generator traverses all page-generating objects. I'm just going to keep hacking on my stuff as I have time and if someone wants to help out with content or design or something then they're welcome to it. If my code isn't used for www.gimp.org I will just put it on www.gimp.ca so I won't be offended if it is ignored. Cheers, Tom -- Tom Rathborne [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.aceldama.com/~tomr/ | I know I've made some very poor decisions recently, but I can give you my | H complete assurance that my work will be back to normal. I've still got the | A greatest enthusiasm and confidence in the mission, and I want to help you. | L ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Re: web site
On Mon, May 21, 2001 at 07:37:54PM +0200, Sven Neumann wrote: > "Branko Collin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > Erm, I would be willing to help some with the web site. It would > > seem a waste not to do what I am best at. Who should I turn to for > > this? > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Several people expressed their interest in doing a new gimp.org > website so far. All we asked from them was to write a proposal of > what they would like to do and present us a working mockup later. > Everyone lost interest then, I wonder why... I volunteered to do it last summer but I kinda dropped it on the floor... like most people who volunteered to do it. It's not that I lost interest -- I just got busy with other things (and people :) ). Ooops, I got a personal life. However, I *did* get a bunch of work done on the site that I'm working on this weekend (mainly because those other people were away :) ). I have placeholder pages for most of the site at: http://wilber.gimp.org:8192/ At the moment I am working on copying the existing content over to the new site. Of course the design can change - it's a placeholder too. The shape of the pages is a little inflexible but it's very simple to change the colours/appearance of the whole site. I'm really sorry that I haven't been more communicative about this. I'm just not good at that. > I'd suggest you use this mailing list to discuss the future of > www.gimp.org so we can all contribute. I'd also suggest you don't > try to tackle it all by your own but try to find a group of people > willing to do the work. This is a very good point. It really should be a group effort - I know that I would have got a lot more done if I had other people pushing/helping. There are a few reasons that this hasn't happened, though. All of the people that I have talked to about doing the site have different opinions on what language/architecture/design should be used to do it, making it very difficult to cooperate on the project. It seems to me that there is nobody driving this as a _project_. I am most certainly not a project manager. I am an ok content writer and web designer and (IMHO) a fairly capable information system architect. My site template system is pretty simple for content writers and designers to work with, and the code is pretty clean and fast, and it is running on wilber already. Another interesting point is that the titles are generated using the GIMP and cached as static files. So there's an interesting use of the GIMP involved. You can read a bit more at: http://wilber.gimp.org:8192/about/site.html Those of you with accounts on wilber are more than welcome to look at everything in: /gimp00/web-newgimp I will also be doing a presentation on this system in Manchester soon: http://www.ukuug.org/events/linux2001/prog/abstract-TRathborne-2.shtml I don't really care if it's my mod_perl system or PHP4 or some other random thing that ends up being the new GIMP site, but I do agree that it should be done. Unfortunately I do not know if there is anyone out there who can speak authoritatively on all this. If someone steps up and says "we're using this system, you work on the code, you work on the content", I'm sure it will be done very soon. We need someone to take charge -- and that's not me. I am going to be working on the site as much as I can over the next little while -- there is a bunch of code that needs to be written and fixed, and of course lots of content to be rewritten and links to be fixed. I would be happy to put my full effort behind the architecture if a leader appears to keep the project organized - otherwise I'm just going to keep stumbling along as I am just not good at including others in my work without a manager above me. Branko, you feel like being the project manager for the website? Cheers, Tom -- Tom Rathborne [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.aceldama.com/~tomr/ | I know I've made some very poor decisions recently, but I can give you my | H complete assurance that my work will be back to normal. I've still got the | A greatest enthusiasm and confidence in the mission, and I want to help you. | L ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] ANNOUNCE: Mandelbrot Invert 1 and 2 plug-ins
Stan; You are into fractals, huh? I think you might enjoy these: http://www.aceldama.com/~tomr/wx/xachtrans/ In particular, these are very pretty: http://www.aceldama.com/~tomr/wx/xachtrans/ultraxach-still.png http://www.aceldama.com/~tomr/wx/xachtrans/ultraxach-2.gif Cheers, Tom -- Tom Rathborne [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.aceldama.com/~tomr/ "Essentially this is what must be developed: the art of giving out in love and intelligence what is taken in from vision and the experience of self-transcen- dence and solidarity with the universe" - A.Huxley to A.Hofmann, 1962-02-29 ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Need some one to program a site
Lee; On Thu, Mar 15, 2001 at 10:37:01PM -, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > I need someone to program a site similar to cooltext. It's my > understanding that most of the tools are available online. If you > would be interested or know someone who would be Please let me know. I have working code for this with Apache+mod_perl and GIMP+Gimp-Perl. In my copious spare time, I am planning to document how it's done and split it off into something you can drop into your website. I don't know when I'll have anything to show, but offers of money and/or hardware may make it sooner. Regards, Tom -- -- Tom Rathborne [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.aceldama.com/~tomr/ -- "Don't clap too loudly -- it's a very old world." -- The Player, -- in Tom Stoppard's "Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead" ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Gimp at the Linuxtag 2001
Simon; On Wed, Mar 14, 2001 at 06:24:19PM +0100, Simon Budig wrote: > Unfortunately I am not able to organize a Gimp booth at the Linuxtag > 2001 (see www.linuxtag.de). I will present a talk about scripting > and plugin-programming, but the work for the booth is too much for > me this year. > > Since Linuxtag is the biggest Linux-Event in Europe I'd be very > happy, if we could find somebody, who is willing to do this. I'd be > happy to help this person and would attend at the booth. > > If this is not possible I'd like to ask, if there is a Gnome booth > and if they would mind sharing a booth with us. I'm pretty busy these days, and of course I am in Canada, so I don't think I can help with the planning much but I'm trying to come to LinuxTag again because I had so much fun last year. I would be happy to hang out with the GIMP folks and help out at the booth. Cheers, Tom -- -- Tom Rathborne [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.aceldama.com/~tomr/ -- "Don't clap too loudly -- it's a very old world." -- The Player, -- in Tom Stoppard's "Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead" ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
