[Gimp-developer] Re: the GIMP help system, i18n and other problems
Le mer 10/03/2004 à 20:08, Sven Neumann a écrit : In GIMP we added help IDs to all dialogs, all menu entries and some more GUI elements. They are all defined in app/widgets/gimphelp-ids.h, so here we have a complete list of all IDs. ... (1) What should happen when an ID cannot be mapped to an URL? At the moment we open a dialog to inform the user that the help-id is unknown. That's pretty confusing for the casual user and I think we can agree that this should not happen. I can think of two solutions for this problem: (a) Make sure that gimp-help-2 provides URLs for all IDs. Not necessarily unique URLs. All IDs for that no help exists could point to the same URL. (b) Extend the gimp-help.xml format to allow to specify a fallback URL that should be used when no other mapping is given. The second solution seems to make more sense since it's easy to miss an ID and we might want to add more IDs at any time. The third and good solution for me is to redefine the ID's in gimphelp-ids.h with the gimp-help team and avoid to do this like a mechanical stuff. I'll certainly vote for (a) after that. I did'nt test anything until now but because some ID's are going very deap in our help files and I don't think that we can define the same ID in different place, then we propbaly will face some problem when a ID point just to a PARA/P or LISTITEM/LI that already exist in many languages at different places in the same file. And when it's just a LISTITEM/LI for me it's not interresting that the Gimp-app point there because there is probably nothing interresting in the doc. Instead of adapting the gimp-help to a mechanical list , it's better to rewrite the gimphelp-ids.h together, my opinion. Well I decided to stop to write any content for the gimp-help, so may be my opinion don't count anymore. (b) Try to get help from the 'C' branch of gimp-help-2. There might exist english help for this topic and we could show the user the english help page. In case there's also no english help, it would probably be best to do what I suggested in (a) and in case there's no fallback URL for the french version, as a last resort use the fallback URL for C. I don't think it's possible to have french/german/swedish content without the english version. We decided to avoid this. You can go this way who seems really nice to me. I am undecided here. Since I speak english quite well, I would of course prefer to get english help if no german help is available. But what about the casual user? Should we present english help to her or would it be better to say, sorry, there's no help written in your language? Show english content. The exception is the Glossary where each langage will have it's own ID's. @+ Raymond ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] GIMP Update
Le mer 04/02/2004 à 14:53, Dave Neary a écrit : Hi, Hello, Would it be possible for the dcs team to do occasional update reports like I've tried to do over the past few months? It's easy to forget about ye, because all too often we don't look at the docs until there's a release. Roman did an update recently, and it would be nice if this became a regular feature, just to let us know who to thank :) We are using the Wiki to know who works on what : http://wiki.gimp.org/gimp/GimpDocsWip May be we could change this and have our own mailing-list like gimp-web. The Authors are listed here : http://wiki.gimp.org/gimp/GimpDocs Update reports or release ? You know my opinion, we are not ready for that. @+ Raymond ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] GIMP Update
Le mar 03/02/2004 à 11:12, Dave Neary a écrit : Sorry - excuse the omission - I have understood that you were now the main .fr GIMP docs contributor. Merci Julien for les docs en francais. Julien wrote : - french translation of main tools - english and french doc for color tools - english and french doc for the fisrt part of the filters : Blur/ color / Noise / Edge / Enhance / Generic (some filters are still not committed in CVS) - english translation for my path tool and corrections of my dialogs doc I only wrote : - doc for path tool in french, layer (not in CVS) and channel doc in french and english (And also many works on fr.po) Comme tu peux le voir, merci pour les docs en français n'est donc toujours pas correct... et de très loin. L'oublier c'est une insulte grave aux contributeurs !!! As I know, Sven did'nt wrote any chapter (thank you for install script aniway). Excusez moi tous - j'ai bien sûr pas été complète, et je voulais surtout pas insulter qui que ce soit. Je me doute bien qu'il n'y rien de volontaire mais ce genre de gaffe peut froisser énormément les gens. Fais attention SVP car les contributeurs sont rares... ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] GIMP Update
Aside from that, there's lots of stuff happenning outside CVS too... the help team recently did a pre-release of the gimp-help-2 module, and it's looking very good. Roman, Daniel, Raymond, Niklas, Sven and everyone else who is working on the help right now are doing a great job. s/sven/julien I consider that Julien is our main doc-writer. L'oublier c'est une insulte grave aux contributeurs !!! As I know, Sven did'nt wrote any chapter (thank you for install script aniway). Dave please check our Wiki if you don't want a new flameware. @+ Raymond ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] GIMP Update
Aside from that, there's lots of stuff happenning outside CVS too... the help team recently did a pre-release of the gimp-help-2 module, and it's looking very good. Roman, Daniel, Raymond, Niklas, Sven and everyone else who is working on the help right now are doing a great job. s/sven/julien I consider that Julien is a main doc-writer. L'oublier c'est une insulte grave aux contributeurs !!! As I know, Sven did'nt wrote any chapter (thank you for install script aniway). Dave please check our Wiki if you don't want a new flameware. @+ Raymond ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] gimp-help-2 news ...
Le dim 11/01/2004 à 12:05, Roman Joost a écrit : But I am connected and the URL seems correct ... I think, thats because of --nonet parameter. --nonet is part of the makefile.am itself, so maybe it's not a good idea to suppress it ? It's finally a new xsltproc like mentionned Daniel and the solution posted by Owen Cook works for me. I just now have to care about Julien who should have the same problem. Thank you everybody. @+ Raymond ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] gimp-help-2 news ...
Le sam 10/01/2004 à 01:10, Roman Joost a écrit : On Fri, Jan 09, 2004 at 10:06:50PM +0100, raymond ostertag wrote: Le lun 05/01/2004 ?? 00:49, Roman Joost a ??crit : A new cvs update should bring you all the changes. I hope, that the anonymous gnome cvs servers are now in sync with the other ones ... If not, drop me an e-mail and i'll send a tarball to you and Julien. The gimp.xml xincludes now the xml files and the entities are gone. There is additionally a tools.xml in the toolbox directory, which xincludes the tools. Have a look at gimp.xml and tools.xml. my CVS is updated, the files gimp.xml and tools.xml are presents. Make process begin with : cd ../html/C /usr/bin/xsltproc --xinclude --nonet ../../stylesheets/plainhtml.xsl ../../src/gimp.xml Attempt to load network entity http://www.oasis-open.org/docbook/xml/4.2/docbookx.dtd ../../src/gimp.xml:6: warning: failed to load external entity http://www.oasis-open.org/docbook/xml/4.2/docbookx.dtd; ] But I am connected and the URL seems correct ... And then : Writing gimp-xrefs-en.xml for book(GIMP) No template matches xi:include in chapter. Writing ch01.html for chapter(introduction) No template matches xi:include in chapter. Writing ch02.html for chapter(legal) No template matches xi:include in chapter. No template matches xi:include in chapter. No template matches xi:include in chapter. Writing ch03.html for chapter(toolbox) No template matches xi:include in chapter. No template matches xi:include in chapter. @+ Raymond ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] gimp-help-2 news ...
Le lun 05/01/2004 à 00:49, Roman Joost a écrit : 2. I customised the purposed StructureOfTheDocumentation[1] a bit. It should now be implementable by the doc writers. The main thing is, that the depth is on section 3 at maximum (see the table on the top of the proposal). I wouldn't go any deeper for readability reasons. The changes are documented on the WIKI, so have a look at it. There is additionally an example of a document. Feel free to add your ideas to this example document. I made some changes : # Using GIMP :: 3. Image Window :: 2. Menus Julien and me we think that here it should be only an introduction about 'how to use the image window' and not a full list documented about all the stuff in the image window menu, this because the Title chapter is Using Gimp. The place where I see the details for image window menu is # Dialogs (could be then renamed Dialogs menus) :: Menus :: Image window. # Dialogs :: 3. Gradients was an error it's 2. The Dialogs :: 14. Gradients # Dialogs :: Preferences , forgotten ?? I add this dialog and some comments : # Toolbox :: 2. Tools :: 4. Color Tools, tools but not in the Toolbox. # Dialogs :: 1. Tool Options what do you write here ? it's already described for each tool in the toolbox. @+ Raymond ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] gimp-help-2 news ...
Le lun 05/01/2004 à 00:49, Roman Joost a écrit : 1. The problem, that the whole content is mixed up after the generation is now fixed. The problem was, that only the dtd in gimp.xml was wrong. It seems, that this was my fault and i'm sorry for that. I had a bit of time to add some german content and make some corrections, during the little meeting with Sven and Simon in Berlin. Unfortunately, i couldn't motivate Sven to finish the install target ... What is the statut now ? Since christmas I only have a few html files with only xinclude in it. It's always possible to work with the old framework but I'd prefer work with the new one with the TO BE WRITTEN texts. I don't find in the CVS the doc I written myself : rewritten Path tool, Dialog layer ? Do I have to resent them to you or not ? @+ Raymond ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] gimp-help-2 news ...
Le lun 05/01/2004 à 00:49, Roman Joost a écrit : a) Screenshots should be made with the standard GNOME theme and a generic font (like Bitstream Sans). Standard GNOME theme is ? I don't remember but on my Mandrake the standard is Galaxy ?? b) If we make some compositing images, we should provide the source file. The others should be able to make the same image with translated text from it. Julien and Raymond made some cool diagrams in SVG. Unfortunately i can not translate them, without discarding the font data. Well I made the SVG with sodipodi 0.33 with the fonts installed on my Mandrake 9.2. My first goal was to release this in XCF with text layers but the SVG import don't transform the Sodipodi text in Layers (may be I miss something). So finally I released a SVG that you can edit with Sodipodi (the fonts used are AD MONO, binary). I you think we should use only a few fonts (what you call generic fonts) please give us a list of the font that we can use (we need at least 3 fonts) and write this somewhere on the Wiki. @+ Raymond ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] gimp-help-2 updated
On Thu, 4 Dec 2003 19:46:36 +0100 Roman Joost [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No no - wrong way *G The text was translated into frensh but was commented. Maybe i use the wrong word for comment something, eg: !-- para lang=foobar/para -- ...maybe its from patching the source.. i dunno OK. I don't remember we did this, in case we did it's probably an error. Another thing which still remains for us is, to produce now utf-8 encoded documents without the gimp.xml entities. I'll try translate the existing docs to utf-8 without the entities. Please give me some feedback how well it works. Works fine. @+ Raymond ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] gimp-help-2 updated
On Wed, 3 Dec 2003 12:18:15 +0100 Roman Joost [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What do you call uncommented ? Do you mean not translated ? No, sorry for the bad description. I mean commented code which were of course translated. hum, still difficult to understand... It's text in french that don't exist in english ? Julien did this or sometimes write more text for the french version. We also found some german text not translated in english. For this it could be enough to open a new paragraph with a special attribut para lang=en stat=TO_BE_TRANSLATED /para But the best thing it's to avoid doing this. Another problem that we will face soon is the fuzzy texts when someone change the original doc in english. We don't have any mecanism like what works fine for PO files. I suggest that we add something like that: para stat=fuzzy in the future for the translated texts (fr, de, se,...) when we change the original english text. Hm... i think it'll be better to leave it or to document it in its current state. If we're yousing the fuzzy tactics, this function or tool is documented anyway. We should document these paragraphs, that we can find them fast if the developers say, that the code is nearly finished or complete. Do you have some background ideas in mind, when we use such an attribute or is it only a special marker for writers? FUZZY is only for translators. If the doc don't fit the code it's an other problem. As it is now we are doing both jobs: doc-writer and translator. Then it's our job to check if the doc fit the code and to change the doc in case it's wrong. Then we can change a translation (french for me) but what to do with the other one (de, se, tamil and more) ? This is where a marker like fuzzy could be useful. @+ Raymond ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
[Gimp-developer] Activ layers in python-fu
Hello, I try to have a list of the layers in an image and to active them one by one. I am using Python-fu (newbie with python) with Gimp 1.2, i am doing this : layers= pdb.gimp_image_get_layers( inImage )[1] activeLayer = pdb.gimp_image_get_layer_by_tattoo( inImage, layers[0] ) pdb.gimp_image_set_active_layer( inImage, activeLayer ) seems wrong because layers[0] activ the background layer but other values in the array index produce RuntimeError: execution error Any help welcome, @+ Raymond ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] the user installer
On Thu, 10 Jul 2003 19:25:22 +0200 Sven Neumann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The attitude I keep encountering is a strong resistance to progress. Sorry, but removing features looks more like a regression to me. I agree, but if on the second window there is 2 buttons, one to skip the other installation window and one to continue as it is now, is this a regression ? The fact is that people are not stupid but 95% use only 5% of the nice features of Gimp and don't need special settings. Then I'd prefer to see some other settings in the installation process like the default interpolation. @+ Raymond ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] What's new in GIMP-1.3 so far
On Thu, 19 Jun 2003 10:03:55 +0200 David Neary [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Since CVS has what amounts to a re-write of 1.2 (as opposed to the modularisation which was envisaged way back at GIMPCon 2000), we would need to be careful that we don't give the impression of stability with an untested program. The new .0 version number says that the program may be unstable, but that it is considered good to go for production work. That is, in my opinion, the case. What ? You mean that Gimp 2.0 won't give the user what you have written and more of that won't be stable ? It's not serious... This will be very confusing for people who explain for years and years that gimp 2.0 will be ... what you have written, and for other GimpPeople. Who will trust GimpPeople now ? You should really considerer that the Gimp Community will loose some credibility. Furthermore this probably will give lot of arguments to Gimp detractors, why they could not say now that Gimp2 was only born to make definitvly obsolete the_gimp104_fork_that_nobody_here_know_it_exists and no other good reasons ? Sorry for my english, @+ Raymond ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
