Re: [Gimp-developer] Re: Re: Menus, keybinding et al, first draft
On Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 03:22:58PM +0100, Guillermo S. Romero / Familia Romero wrote: I have been moving menu things around, and proposed some extra keys, but did not get into tools keys (make circle for ellipse select and such). Maybe they should get a config area too? While we're at it, could somebody make sure keyboard shortcuts are better _documented_ in Gimp 1.3 than it was in 1.2? All tools, for instance, should list the appropriate keyboard shortcut (if any) in the tool tip. /* Steinar */ -- Homepage: http://www.sesse.net/ ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
[Gimp-developer] Re: Re: Menus, keybinding et al, first draft
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (2002-02-17 at 1230.12 +0100): Also we will need a howto on the web site about making the different window managers play nice with gimp. That would be useful though. What would also be useful is to make _all_ keybindings in GIMP configurable (like SHIFT, CTRL, ALT etc.). So I would be able to assign Meta1 to GIMP-ALT and Meta2 to WindowManager-ALT. You can configure all the menu shortcuts, it is a GTK+ feature, and a good one. Non configurable things are Alt for menus and things that do not appear in menus. That would need some kind of config method, maybe being Alt one impossible. Supposing wm does not hard code, you can get the thing you want. About the doc, yes, and not only for GIMP, but for other features, so people really use window manager capabilities and have info to choose wm. bit OT Another problem I see is the terms workspace and viewport. Some wm have none, some one, some both... and of course names change, I used Sawfish terms, so do not panic if your wm has other things. This is related to GIMP cos you can use one level of stickiness for the GIMP utility windows and leave images non sticky, thus changing fast from image to image. Add any other tricks you have developed. Good usage of things avaliable means less work. /bit OT As far as I know, there are no wide-spread shortcuts involving two modifier keys. It boils down to something like CTRL-Q: Quit, CTRL-W: Close window, CTRL-N: New - very basic stuff. Shift+Control is proposed as related or negative, and not only in the draft. GNOME has a list, Mac too, even Windows, they cover the basics, they have the comment about Shift. OTOH, some like Mac and Windows do not have wm problems, via the quick way (remove the problem instead of fix it, and say you do not need it to people that ask for things like fast and fully keyboard controlable wm). CTRL-ALT and similar bindings are seldomly used by applications and often used by window managers. X and OS too (beware of Backspace, kills X ;] ). GSR ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
[Gimp-developer] Re: Re: Menus, keybinding et al, first draft
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (2002-02-17 at 1219.46 +0100): As any looked into how all this will work with different window managers? What window managers grab what keys and can the window The reply is easy: pain. Been there done that. When you fix one thing, someone appears with new keys to kick you down pretty hard. ;] managers easily be configured to use alt if gimp isn't using it? Well, if you ask me and you (well, distros) are into fixing all the madness, there is a way, called Hyper or Super keys. Most keyboards now have 105 keys, so instead of having Meta and Alt, you can share that in one key (anybody found a program that wants both?) and make the free keys be Hyper (ta da, window manager key!). So not 100% fixed, but at least fixed for many cases, now the problem is to fix the rare cases, not the common one. It is important to check this since we will otherwise end up with lots of whiny users who can't figure out why thiings aren't happening like expected. We already have them (check the tip of the day list, and search for references to Alt). What is more, Branko found another one the other day (Control key, used by xterms, collides with E... ouch, and Sawfish had some versions with similar wrong defaults, see Carol's PNGs). Also we will need a howto on the web site about making the different window managers play nice with gimp. OK, I can contribute the Hyper thing, and the application into Sawfish (FVWM2 as soon as I get it back, archived the config again). Carol PNGs only make W become Super, but she needs how to get Super or Hyper working, dunno about Debian defaults, but RH does not have Hyper (I prefer Hyper cos Super shorts to S, like Shift... personal mania). Also, are there other apps that use shortcuts like we do that might be using a different set of shift-alt-ctrl keys? Just thinking it would be The doc goes for Shift / Control / Shift+Control and letters for a reason. Then Shift+Alt if needed more. Of course, use Hyper (at wm level) and you never have problems. I would leave Control+Alt for window things (window manager, like maximize, or X, like jump to another VT), so Hyperless people have something at least. I leave out Shift+Alt+Control cos it starts to get complicated, and Alt is reserved for accelerators that have _ (menus, dialogs and so on), so avoided too. GSR ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
