Re: [Gimp-developer] Selection to brush/pattern/whatever in menus...
On Fri, Nov 12, 2004 at 02:41:41PM -0800, miriam clinton (iriXx) wrote: > Carol Spears wrote: hi, i am really glad that you stuck with this list. since making this excellent decision, might i direct you to this document: http://www.gimp.org/mail_lists.html and ask that you at least strip the mail the way they ask. they ask me to improve my hardware to work with them, but there are or could be people who are reading this list who store the mails or what have you where size is important. > >you took classes on how to use this software? or self-educated? > > > Oh and yes, for the record, I picked these tools up and used them - my > mother was a painter, not a graphic designer. I learnt the tools in > about 30mins. > > Compared to the GIMP which I still havent got my head around hence > my wanting to contribute - better to contribute than to whinge! > this is very nice. i dont think that it answered my question though. very nice to be raised in a loving environment with access to many tools and such. gimp was developed by people of all sorts. some had this sort of upbringing and access and some didnt. congratulations to you for deserving all this or whatever. my question, and i could have been more specific, was more about the software you use and the computer you use it on. classes in adobe/macromedia and experience with preinstalled operating systems is what i was looking for exactly. software will never be simple enough for people who need formal training in it. operating systems are difficult to install. i hear complaints from anyone who needs to install any operating system. i really am trying to determine if this is the case with you. if you are used to macintosh, there is a chance that you are used to having everything installed for you and TheGIMP and its fellow free apps might always be out of your grasp. none of this is personal. access is a nice thing. not having access and being able to get this stuff free and legal like is another thing. both are blessings or gifts from life? direct questions: did you have classes in using the software you are comfortable with? pay for books or tutoring? have you even been able to install an operating system on a computer you are in charge of? thanks, carol ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Selection to brush/pattern/whatever in menus...
Carol Spears wrote: On Fri, Nov 12, 2004 at 02:41:05AM -0800, miriam clinton (iriXx) wrote: Carol Spears wrote: On Thu, Nov 11, 2004 at 11:17:20AM -0800, miriam clinton (iriXx) wrote: just to clarify - i'm here contributing from the point of view of a professional graphic designer, considering the mainstream Adobe/Macromedia market who would have never used GIMP, and how we can 'convert them over' . This market are of the 'pick it up and use it' intuitive designers - they will reject at sight anything that requires coding, or obscure menus. have them hire someone who knows gimp for the same income. have them, at the end of the year, tally up how much each employee actually costed and compare it to their ability to produce actual results and know where all of the pieces came from. i think we will fail in selling this to people who need their employers to provide very much cushiony stuff for them and then they dont really know that much once this is all said and done. we should talk to their employers instead. who employes you? carol I'm freelance, have worked for a variety of companies in temporary contracts or purely freelance (I value my independence, and owning my own company). I would say it would take me at least double or triple time to produce a website in GIMP comparable to the industry-standard websites I produce using a combination of Fireworks/Photoshop/Dreamweaver. you took classes on how to use this software? or self-educated? carol Home-educated by a mother who did a degree in Fine Arts and taught for ~10 years. Don't worry, i'm an awful lot older than a kid now. mC~ -- 99% of aliens prefer Earth --Eminem www.iriXx.org www.copyleftmedia.org.uk ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Selection to brush/pattern/whatever in menus...
Carol Spears wrote: On Fri, Nov 12, 2004 at 02:41:05AM -0800, miriam clinton (iriXx) wrote: I'm freelance, have worked for a variety of companies in temporary contracts or purely freelance (I value my independence, and owning my own company). I would say it would take me at least double or triple time to produce a website in GIMP comparable to the industry-standard websites I produce using a combination of Fireworks/Photoshop/Dreamweaver. you took classes on how to use this software? or self-educated? carol Oh and yes, for the record, I picked these tools up and used them - my mother was a painter, not a graphic designer. I learnt the tools in about 30mins. Compared to the GIMP which I still havent got my head around hence my wanting to contribute - better to contribute than to whinge! mC~ -- 99% of aliens prefer Earth --Eminem www.iriXx.org www.copyleftmedia.org.uk ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Selection to brush/pattern/whatever in menus...
Sven Neumann wrote: Yes, the plan's to move the scripts out of the script-fu menu into the places they belong to. What's missing here though is a better menu registration functionality in Script-Fu. Kevin wanted to add a bug report about this. Actually, I was originally expecting Sven to add the bug report since he was the one who first mentioned this. :-) I have gone ahead and entered it in to bugzilla (bug #158117). I will shortly be attaching a patch file to the report which, while not yet working, provides the framework of what is needed and can be used to spark further discussions or suggestions for changes. -- Cheers! Kevin. (http://www.interlog.com/~kcozens/) Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172|"What are we going to do today, Borg?" E-mail:kcozens at interlog dot com|"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: Packet:[EMAIL PROTECTED]| Try to assimilate the world!" #include| -Pinkutus & the Borg ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Selection to brush/pattern/whatever in menus...
On Fri, Nov 12, 2004 at 02:41:05AM -0800, miriam clinton (iriXx) wrote: > Carol Spears wrote: > > >On Thu, Nov 11, 2004 at 11:17:20AM -0800, miriam clinton (iriXx) wrote: > > > > > >>just to clarify - i'm here contributing from the point of view of a > >>professional graphic designer, considering the mainstream > >>Adobe/Macromedia market who would have never used GIMP, and how we can > >>'convert them over' . This market are of > >>the 'pick it up and use it' intuitive designers - they will reject at > >>sight anything that requires coding, or obscure menus. > >> > >> > >> > >have them hire someone who knows gimp for the same income. have them, > >at the end of the year, tally up how much each employee actually costed > >and compare it to their ability to produce actual results and know where > >all of the pieces came from. > > > >i think we will fail in selling this to people who need their employers > >to provide very much cushiony stuff for them and then they dont really > >know that much once this is all said and done. > > > >we should talk to their employers instead. > > > >who employes you? > > > >carol > > > > > > I'm freelance, have worked for a variety of companies in temporary > contracts or purely freelance (I value my independence, and owning my > own company). > > I would say it would take me at least double or triple time to produce a > website in GIMP comparable to the industry-standard websites I produce > using a combination of Fireworks/Photoshop/Dreamweaver. > you took classes on how to use this software? or self-educated? carol ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Selection to brush/pattern/whatever in menus...
Sven Neumann wrote: Hi, "miriam clinton (iriXx)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Script-Fu is totally incomprehensible to graphic designers Actually you are not supposed to recognize that it's a script-fu. How to achieve that is what we are discussing at the moment. Sven Brilliant! I was just saying that the very name Script-Fu is cute, but doesnt really say to a designer 'look for cool fx here'... or even your standard effects (drop shadow is an /essential/ and must not be obscured). Just to explain - I dropped out of this list for a while after an argument over my website and w3c issues. As i said, I've promised not to bring up the issue again as long as noone else does ;). But that explains why I havent been following for the last week or so. Best, mC~ -- 99% of aliens prefer Earth --Eminem www.iriXx.org www.copyleftmedia.org.uk ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Selection to brush/pattern/whatever in menus...
Hmm, will give it a try. Again, not easy to find - designers also work under a great deal of pressure to get stuff done fast, and a tool where selections appear obscured will not encourage them so easily. Cinepaint, though, has had a great deal of success. I'm going to be interested to compile it (again a problem for designers) and have a taste. The name Script-Fu is cute, but /very/ programmer-speak... a designer has no idea what it means, or that it means 'look for effects here' mC~ Popolon wrote: That was about the GUI menu... In menu bar, there is a Script-Fu menu with Selection sub-menu containing the To Brush item. Shorter it's: Script-Fu->Selection->To Brush miriam clinton (iriXx) wrote: okay... since i'm in the Hotel California where you can check in but never check out from a graphic designer's point of view this is a nightmare... most of them wouldnt know how to use the Bash shell, or only the basics, let alone how to do this. Is it possible to design a GUI implementation of the same script? The Select-To sounds good but its gotta be a short menu - preferably within the Brush palette itself... thats where we'd think to look for it... Script-Fu is totally incomprehensible to graphic designers Just my 2c from the graphics corner... mC~ (who has promised not to write on w3c issues ever again, as long as noone else does ;P ) Popolon wrote: Actually in Select menu there is two items "To Path" and "Save To Channel". I searched long time how to convert selection to brush, I think that the only way was to save brush to a file, move the file to ~/.gimp-xx/brush folder and restart gimp. This week in a newsgroup, another guy searched didn't find how to convert a selection to a pattern. For him the only way was to save selection to move the file to ~/gimp-xx/pattern folder and restart gimp :(. A day, don't know exactly for why, By wandering in gimp menus, I find the miraculous: Script-Fu->Selection->To Brush/Image/Pattern I believe (perhaps wrong), that the human logic is to use the same tool to do nearly the same thing. The menu Select could have an organisation for these conversions as: Select->To...->[Brush/Channel/Image/Path/Pattern/...] to avoid a to long Select menu. and a 'Selection To Brush/Pattern' button could be in brush/Pattern windows, as there is 'Selection to Path' button in Path window. This could improve speed of The Gimp apprenticeship and workflow for some tasks. Regards Popolon ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer -- 99% of aliens prefer Earth --Eminem www.iriXx.org www.copyleftmedia.org.uk ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Selection to brush/pattern/whatever in menus...
Jakub Friedl (lists) wrote: please use Win 98 or XP if you have to use Windows, but not ME. It is the worst system from Microsoft available. I'm testing on both Win ME (forced to by a proprietary laptop) and XP. XP has a nice widget set. But a designer - a vanilla designer, not a programmer-designer like yourself, wouldnt have a clue what a widget is mC~ -- 99% of aliens prefer Earth --Eminem www.iriXx.org www.copyleftmedia.org.uk ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Selection to brush/pattern/whatever in menus...
]> ]> The natural place for a user to look would be ]> ]> within the "brushes" dialog. ]> ]Huh? ...? Seriously? ]> Seriously: ]> That's where brushes ... ]> Brush editor is the only other tool that creates brushes. ]That isn't true. Image->Save ... I stand corrected. Brush editor is the only other tool dedicated to creation and manipulation of brushes. The point is that creating a brush from an image or some part thereof should be done around the same place as you can delete or create a brushes by other means. Doubleclicking the brush gets you to the Brushes dialog. The brush editor is there, where it's quite intuitive, but limited. ]... Image->Save ... It's just somewhat akward ... You're right, it's a bit of an inconvenience to have to navigate, but at least the new file chooser helps :) _-T Juno Platinum $9.95. Juno SpeedBand $14.95. Sign up for Juno Today at http://www.juno.com! Look for special offers at Best Buy stores. ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Selection to brush/pattern/whatever in menus...
Hi, "miriam clinton (iriXx)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Script-Fu is totally incomprehensible to graphic designers Actually you are not supposed to recognize that it's a script-fu. How to achieve that is what we are discussing at the moment. Sven ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Selection to brush/pattern/whatever in menus...
Hi, David Neary <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > I meant as an export operation. In general, if you pass a file to > a save operation that it doesn't support, it proposes an export > operation to convert to a format supported (like saving an RGB > image as gif, for example). I'm not sure how that's done, but I > imagine that it's mostly in the core. It happens completely in the plug-in. Well, of course the plug-in is calling core functionality using the PDB but the plug-in creates the export dialog and runs the export process. Sven ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Selection to brush/pattern/whatever in menus...
Hi, Alan Horkan wrote: > On Thu, 11 Nov 2004, David Neary wrote: > > Alan Horkan wrote: > > > On Thu, 11 Nov 2004, David Neary wrote: > > > > It should also (IMHO) work on images and not just drawables, > > > > proposing a flatten if necessary. Every time I have used > > > > selection to brush so far, the selection was created with "select > > > > all". > > > > > > I'd rather not add a flatten option (or 'work on copy'), > > > > I meant as an export operation. > > However in gimp 2.0 if you use File, 'Save as', then choose Gimp > Brush (.gbr) and if your image contains multiple layers you are already > asked to Export and advised to flatten the image. > Perhaps I'm still misunderstanding you. Yeah, I think so. The "Save as brush" or "Save as pattern" scripts should not only be active on a selection, they should work on an image. Since sending an image to the gbr plug-in results in a flatten operation if necessary, that's great. So there's no need for a flatten operation, and my "it should flatten if necessary" comment was superfluous :) Cheers, Dave. -- David Neary, Lyon, France E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] CV: http://dneary.free.fr/CV/ ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Selection to brush/pattern/whatever in menus...
Sven Neumann wrote: Hi, "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Seriously: That's where brushes are managed. That's where they're deleted. That's where they're chosen. That's where they're created from scratch. That's where they're edited. That's where someone looking for a brush that doesn't quite match anything already there would like to see an option to make something different. Brush editor is there (where it belongs). Sorry, but I have to disagree. The brush editor may be the place where the brush ends up finally but if I want to create a brush from an image, then the function should be associated with the image. For add a path using the actual selection, there's a button in path dialog (selection to path). The brush dialog could have the same button. That's true that is mostly used (at least Is use it) for store selections. The fact that these buttons (selection to path/path to selection) are together, is good for quickly add/change/combine/cut/backup selections in this case. The button could be less usefull in brush/pattern, case??? ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
[carol: Re: [Gimp-developer] Selection to brush/pattern/whatever in menus...]
On Thu, Nov 11, 2004 at 11:17:20AM -0800, miriam clinton (iriXx) wrote: > just to clarify - i'm here contributing from the point of view of a > professional graphic designer, considering the mainstream > Adobe/Macromedia market who would have never used GIMP, and how we can > 'convert them over' . This market are of > the 'pick it up and use it' intuitive designers - they will reject at > sight anything that requires coding, or obscure menus. > have them hire someone who knows gimp for the same income. have them, at the end of the year, tally up how much each employee actually costed and compare it to their ability to produce actual results and know where all of the pieces came from. i think we will fail in selling this to people who need their employers to provide very much cushiony stuff for them and then they dont really know that much once this is all said and done. we should talk to their employers instead. who employes you? carol - End forwarded message - ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Selection to brush/pattern/whatever in menus...
On Thu, 11 Nov 2004, David Neary wrote: > Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 21:36:18 +0100 > From: David Neary <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: Alan Horkan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [Gimp-developer] Selection to brush/pattern/whatever in > menus... > > Hi, > > Alan Horkan wrote: > > On Thu, 11 Nov 2004, David Neary wrote: > > > It should also (IMHO) work on images and not just drawables, > > > proposing a flatten if necessary. Every time I have used > > > selection to brush so far, the selection was created with "select > > > all". > > > > I'd rather not add a flatten option (or 'work on copy'), I think it is > > better to use the built in functionality where possible rather than > > complicating each script. Image Duplicate and Flatten Image work well and > > they both deserve shortcuts (I dont recall what the defaults are if any as > > I mostly use the Photoshop shortcuts). > > I meant as an export operation. In general, if you pass a file to > a save operation that it doesn't support, it proposes an export > operation to convert to a format supported (like saving an RGB > image as gif, for example). I'm not sure how that's done, but I > imagine that it's mostly in the core. Apologies. That makes a lot more sense. However in gimp 2.0 if you use File, 'Save as', then choose Gimp Brush (.gbr) and if your image contains multiple layers you are already asked to Export and advised to flatten the image. Perhaps I'm still misunderstanding you. Sincerely Alan Horkan http://advogato.org/person/AlanHorkan/ Inkscape, Draw Freely http://inkscape.org Free SVG Clip Art http://OpenClipArt.org ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Selection to brush/pattern/whatever in menus...
Miriam > okay... since i'm in the Hotel California where you can check in but > never check out Sorry that the you were unable to unsubscribe, I have no idea why the unsubscribe system didn't work for you but I'm pretty sure the developers were joking and that if you are still unable to unsubscribe having done your best to try the various methods available that they would be willing to take you off the list but I hope you will volutarily stick around a little longer. > Is it possible to design a GUI implementation of the same script? The > Select-To sounds good but its gotta be a short menu - preferably within > the Brush palette itself... thats where we'd think to look for it... I'm not sure you realise there already is a script under Script-Fu/Selection/To Brush... which will take the contents of the current selection, ask you to give it a name and then save it to the brushes folder. > Script-Fu is totally incomprehensible to graphic designers Not just graphic designers :) Scheme is an 'interesting' programming language but it sort of has its charms if and when you can eventually figure it out. I'd still like an automatic script recorder though. - Alan H. ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
[Offtopic] Re: [Gimp-developer] Selection to brush/pattern/whatever in menus...
(sorry for all the offtopic comments about inkscape) On Thu, 11 Nov 2004, miriam clinton (iriXx) wrote: > Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 11:17:20 -0800 > From: "miriam clinton (iriXx)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Jakub Friedl (lists)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [Gimp-developer] Selection to brush/pattern/whatever in > menus... > > just to clarify - i'm here contributing from the point of view of a > professional graphic designer, considering the mainstream > Adobe/Macromedia market who would have never used GIMP, and how we can > 'convert them over' . This market are of > the 'pick it up and use it' intuitive designers - they will reject at > sight anything that requires coding, or obscure menus. I think this is very understandable. I'm a big fan of the Plugin Browser as it makes it easier to find out what is where in the menus, but to learn the gimp you still really need to work your way through and do your best to try everything (I'm still learning). I have been switching between Adobe Photoshop quite a bit recently and to make it easier for me to learn to use it (and have a marketable skill) I have switch my copy of the gimp to use the psmenurc which provides Photoshop like keybindings for menu items. (apologies if I have suggested this to you before but I think it is always worth mentioning to new users already familiar with Photoshop) > testing this morning the latest version i found it incredibly difficult > just to apply a drop-shadow to text or objects - which is an absolute > essential. i can't understand why this is hidden in Script-Fu - then Developers tend to organise things by how they were made, what programming language was used but I think it is now generally accepted that it makes more sense to group menu items by what they do and some progress is being made but it is difficult to come up with a coherent plan because it is something that would be better changed in one go rather than incrementally to reduce any potential confusion for existing users. This report goes some way to coming up with a plan http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=116145 and this wiki page contains other ideas http://wiki.gimp.org/gimp/GimpMenuReorganization (I think renaming Filters to Effects is more trouble than it is worth, but we'll see what happens after gimp 2.2). > once you try to make a selection it has to run through all of them - i'm > testing on Win XP as the majority of users will be Windows or Mac - will I'd be surprised if the number of non-Windows gimp users didn't come close to or exceed the number of windows users, download statistics might provide some indications but that wouldn't cover the fact that the gimp is the defacto standard for graphics on Linux (wherease on windows there is mspaint (yes I'm absolutely serious). You have already explained the point of view you are coming from but I think that it is important to remember that the gimp is probably used occassionally by many users as oppossed to Adobe Photoshop which would be used heavily (almost exlusively) by graphic designers. If anything it makes it even more important that the gimp should be easy to use. > test on GNU/Linux once i have the disk space. that has issues of its own > - graphic designers cannot compile. nor do they understand libraries There are various Live CDs which I would happily recommend, I first tried gimp 2.0 on Knoppix. Other Live CDs that run Gnome by default include the Ubuntu Live CD and the Java Desktop System Live CD from Sun Microsystems http://jdshelp.org/ (although unfortunately it is too popular for its own good at the moment). > (Sodipodi failed on me this morning because of a missing dll, and a > designer without experience of code (i have some limited experience) > would have no idea how to correct this. > > the Script-Fu dialog comes up behind the image, instead of in the > regular toolbox - which makes it impossible to find - for quite a while > i thought the effect wasnt going to happen at all. after that i had the > strange experience of hitting cancel a million times to find the > selection I wanted. > > Layers and layer effects are working very nicely though and are intuitive. > > On the whole, I'm finding it much easier to use than before - my > comments may seem harsh but have to be seen in context from my first > humble appearance on the list - i'm kinda bug-testing from a > professional designer's point of view. I think the professional designers are going to be almost impossible to get to switch but it might be possible to convince them to also use the gimp in addition to their existing software if migration is made easier and there are a few things that the gimp does much better than other software. The difficulty of ge
Re: [Gimp-developer] Selection to brush/pattern/whatever in menus...
Hi, Alan Horkan wrote: > On Thu, 11 Nov 2004, David Neary wrote: > > It should also (IMHO) work on images and not just drawables, > > proposing a flatten if necessary. Every time I have used > > selection to brush so far, the selection was created with "select > > all". > > I'd rather not add a flatten option (or 'work on copy'), I think it is > better to use the built in functionality where possible rather than > complicating each script. Image Duplicate and Flatten Image work well and > they both deserve shortcuts (I dont recall what the defaults are if any as > I mostly use the Photoshop shortcuts). I meant as an export operation. In general, if you pass a file to a save operation that it doesn't support, it proposes an export operation to convert to a format supported (like saving an RGB image as gif, for example). I'm not sure how that's done, but I imagine that it's mostly in the core. Cheers, Dave. -- David Neary, Lyon, France E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] CV: http://dneary.free.fr/CV/ ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Selection to brush/pattern/whatever in menus...
> Also - anyone have an address for the Inkscape-devel and Sodipodi-devel > lists? http://www.inkscape.org/mailing_lists.php http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/sodipodi-list here you are > candy' - thats another important factor for designers, we're competing > with the Windows and Mac toolkits, and frankly GTK looks pretty darn mac is nice - but windows? the main reason I switched to linux (now I know many better reasons, of course, so do not laugh at me) was that I was not able to look at the UGLY and gaudy windows user interface. GTK/Gnome, or other Linux GUIs too, can be really beautiful while still easy on eyes and not distracting with proper themes > strange and ugly to a designer - it'll put them off using a really good and again, most money I have ever earned was for graphic design or other graphic work on computer (DTP mainly) > tackling them. Sodipodi... sorry, its still unfathomable even when I had > it running on Win ME please use Win 98 or XP if you have to use Windows, but not ME. It is the worst system from Microsoft available. ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Selection to brush/pattern/whatever in menus...
just to clarify - i'm here contributing from the point of view of a professional graphic designer, considering the mainstream Adobe/Macromedia market who would have never used GIMP, and how we can 'convert them over' . This market are of the 'pick it up and use it' intuitive designers - they will reject at sight anything that requires coding, or obscure menus. testing this morning the latest version i found it incredibly difficult just to apply a drop-shadow to text or objects - which is an absolute essential. i can't understand why this is hidden in Script-Fu - then once you try to make a selection it has to run through all of them - i'm testing on Win XP as the majority of users will be Windows or Mac - will test on GNU/Linux once i have the disk space. that has issues of its own - graphic designers cannot compile. nor do they understand libraries (Sodipodi failed on me this morning because of a missing dll, and a designer without experience of code (i have some limited experience) would have no idea how to correct this. the Script-Fu dialog comes up behind the image, instead of in the regular toolbox - which makes it impossible to find - for quite a while i thought the effect wasnt going to happen at all. after that i had the strange experience of hitting cancel a million times to find the selection I wanted. Layers and layer effects are working very nicely though and are intuitive. On the whole, I'm finding it much easier to use than before - my comments may seem harsh but have to be seen in context from my first humble appearance on the list - i'm kinda bug-testing from a professional designer's point of view. Also - anyone have an address for the Inkscape-devel and Sodipodi-devel lists? I've been trying to test these and contribute also but havent found the lists yet. Inkscape is impressive, but could do with some 'eye candy' - thats another important factor for designers, we're competing with the Windows and Mac toolkits, and frankly GTK looks pretty darn strange and ugly to a designer - it'll put them off using a really good tool. Inkscape on the whole did what i wanted when i learnt how it 'thought', but wouldnt open and reopen from Illustrator. I'd very much like to report these experiences to their list and see how they are tackling them. Sodipodi... sorry, its still unfathomable even when I had it running on Win ME Best, Miriam. Jakub Friedl (lists) wrote: Script-Fu is totally incomprehensible to graphic designers it depends. i am a fluent script-fu speaker for example. ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer -- 99% of aliens prefer Earth --Eminem www.iriXx.org www.copyleftmedia.org.uk ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Selection to brush/pattern/whatever in menus...
> Script-Fu is totally incomprehensible to graphic designers > it depends. i am a fluent script-fu speaker for example. ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Selection to brush/pattern/whatever in menus...
okay... since i'm in the Hotel California where you can check in but never check out from a graphic designer's point of view this is a nightmare... most of them wouldnt know how to use the Bash shell, or only the basics, let alone how to do this. Is it possible to design a GUI implementation of the same script? The Select-To sounds good but its gotta be a short menu - preferably within the Brush palette itself... thats where we'd think to look for it... Script-Fu is totally incomprehensible to graphic designers Just my 2c from the graphics corner... mC~ (who has promised not to write on w3c issues ever again, as long as noone else does ;P ) Popolon wrote: Actually in Select menu there is two items "To Path" and "Save To Channel". I searched long time how to convert selection to brush, I think that the only way was to save brush to a file, move the file to ~/.gimp-xx/brush folder and restart gimp. This week in a newsgroup, another guy searched didn't find how to convert a selection to a pattern. For him the only way was to save selection to move the file to ~/gimp-xx/pattern folder and restart gimp :(. A day, don't know exactly for why, By wandering in gimp menus, I find the miraculous: Script-Fu->Selection->To Brush/Image/Pattern I believe (perhaps wrong), that the human logic is to use the same tool to do nearly the same thing. The menu Select could have an organisation for these conversions as: Select->To...->[Brush/Channel/Image/Path/Pattern/...] to avoid a to long Select menu. and a 'Selection To Brush/Pattern' button could be in brush/Pattern windows, as there is 'Selection to Path' button in Path window. This could improve speed of The Gimp apprenticeship and workflow for some tasks. Regards Popolon ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer -- 99% of aliens prefer Earth --Eminem www.iriXx.org www.copyleftmedia.org.uk ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Selection to brush/pattern/whatever in menus...
On Thu, 11 Nov 2004, David Neary wrote: > Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 18:21:36 +0100 > From: David Neary <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: Sven Neumann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Cc: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED], > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [Gimp-developer] Selection to brush/pattern/whatever in > menus... > > Hi, > > Sven Neumann wrote: > > Script-Fu->Selection->To Brush solves this nicely > > but it should be moved to a better place in the menus. I forgot that I made further modifcations to my local copy of the script besides moving it to "Edit, Define Brush..." I aslo removed the option to specify the filename and made the script to that automatically because if I really wanted to be able to specify the filename I could "Save As" and I preferred to to keep it as simple as possible (and I also wanted to copying how that other photo editor does it http://www.nectec.or.th/courseware/graphics/photoshop/define-brush.gif ) It is important that 'Define Brush' be significantly easier and way more useful than using 'Save As', at the moment the main advantage of the script is not needing to hunt around for the correct directory. Now that I think about it more I remember I actaully made quite a few changes I also improved it to work with INDEXED Images and I made sure it worked if you had no existing selection. I might have submitted it before (if I was finished and if I thought it might be accepted without too many changes) but my attempts to consolidate the code with 'Selection to Pattern' were not very successful (saved more space by not needing to include the GPL twice than anything else), and it kinda sucks not to be able to include a thumbnail sized preview in the dialog. > It should also (IMHO) work on images and not just drawables, > proposing a flatten if necessary. Every time I have used > selection to brush so far, the selection was created with "select > all". I'd rather not add a flatten option (or 'work on copy'), I think it is better to use the built in functionality where possible rather than complicating each script. Image Duplicate and Flatten Image work well and they both deserve shortcuts (I dont recall what the defaults are if any as I mostly use the Photoshop shortcuts). If there is enough interest I will try and dig out my modified version later this week, I might have to forward port the changes to gimp 2.0. Sincerely Alan Horkan http://advogato.org/person/AlanHorkan/ Inkscape, Draw Freely http://inkscape.org Free SVG Clip Art http://OpenClipArt.org ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Selection to brush/pattern/whatever in menus...
Hi, Sven Neumann wrote: > Script-Fu->Selection->To Brush solves this nicely > but it should be moved to a better place in the menus. It should also (IMHO) work on images and not just drawables, proposing a flatten if necessary. Every time I have used selection to brush so far, the selection was created with "select all". Cheers, Dave. -- David Neary, Lyon, France E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] CV: http://dneary.free.fr/CV/ ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Selection to brush/pattern/whatever in menus...
Hi, Sven Neumann wrote: > "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > The natural place for a user to look would be > > within the "brushes" dialog. > > Huh? If you wanted to use the current image or part of it as a brush, > you would look in the Brushes dialog? Seriously? Personally I'd look in the File menua under a "Save as..." submenu if it wasn't in the top level, but I can see that someone might think to look in the brush dialog (in the same way as someone looks in the gradients dialog to create new gradients). Cheers, Dave. -- David Neary, Lyon, France E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] CV: http://dneary.free.fr/CV/ ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Selection to brush/pattern/whatever in menus...
Hi, "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > ]> The natural place for a user to look would be > ]> within the "brushes" dialog. > ] > ]Huh? If you wanted to use the current image or part of it as a brush, > ]you would look in the Brushes dialog? Seriously? > ] > > Seriously: > > That's where brushes are managed. > That's where they're deleted. > That's where they're chosen. > That's where they're created from scratch. > That's where they're edited. > That's where someone looking for a brush that doesn't > quite match anything already there would like to see > an option to make something different. > Brush editor is there (where it belongs). Sorry, but I have to disagree. The brush editor may be the place where the brush ends up finally but if I want to create a brush from an image, then the function should be associated with the image. If you want to open an image file would you go to the Images dialog? When saving an image, would you use a file-manager to select the filename and expect it to ask you what you want to put there then? > Brush editor is the only other tool that creates brushes. That isn't true. Image->Save is already creating brushes quite nicely. It's just somewhat akward that you have to select the brush file type, look for the brushes folder and refresh the brushes list when you are done. Script-Fu->Selection->To Brush solves this nicely but it should be moved to a better place in the menus. Sven ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Selection to brush/pattern/whatever in menus...
]> The natural place for a user to look would be ]> within the "brushes" dialog. ] ]Huh? If you wanted to use the current image or part of it as a brush, ]you would look in the Brushes dialog? Seriously? ] Seriously: That's where brushes are managed. That's where they're deleted. That's where they're chosen. That's where they're created from scratch. That's where they're edited. That's where someone looking for a brush that doesn't quite match anything already there would like to see an option to make something different. Brush editor is there (where it belongs). Brush editor is the only other tool that creates brushes. Other methods of creating brushes should be available from the same place. Or maybe it's just too hard to put it there? Juno Platinum $9.95. Juno SpeedBand $14.95. Sign up for Juno Today at http://www.juno.com! Look for special offers at Best Buy stores. ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Selection to brush/pattern/whatever in menus...
Hi, "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > The natural place for a user to look would be > within the "brushes" dialog. Huh? If you wanted to use the current image or part of it as a brush, you would look in the Brushes dialog? Seriously? Sven ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Selection to brush/pattern/whatever in menus...
]> Select->To...->[Brush/Channel/Image/Path/Pattern/...] ] ]I agree that it would help if the scripts ]were moved to elsewhere in the ]menus, but I reiterate my point that I do ]not think they do not belong ]in ]the Select menu. ] The natural place for a user to look would be within the "brushes" dialog. (of course' it would require slightly more integration effort than reorganizing menu items) Juno Platinum $9.95. Juno SpeedBand $14.95. Sign up for Juno Today at http://www.juno.com! Look for special offers at Best Buy stores. ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Selection to brush/pattern/whatever in menus...
On Tue, 9 Nov 2004, Popolon wrote: > Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2004 23:00:35 +0100 > From: Popolon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: [Gimp-developer] Selection to brush/pattern/whatever in menus... > > Actually in Select menu there is two items "To Path" and "Save To Channel". > > I searched long time how to convert selection to brush, I think that the > only way was to save brush to a file, move the file to ~/.gimp-xx/brush > folder and restart gimp. > > This week in a newsgroup, another guy searched didn't find how to > convert a selection to a pattern. For him the only way was to save > selection to move the file to ~/gimp-xx/pattern folder and restart gimp :(. > > > A day, don't know exactly for why, By wandering in gimp menus, I find > the miraculous: > Script-Fu->Selection->To Brush/Image/Pattern I adjusted my local version to become "Edit, Define Pattern..." (and similarly "Edit, Define Brush..."). I think the current label is incorrect and misleading because the selection itself is not being modified, the _contents_ of the selection is what is being modified (same goes for most scripts and filters). > I believe (perhaps wrong), that the human logic is to use the same tool > to do nearly the same thing. > > The menu Select could have an organisation for these conversions as: > > Select->To...->[Brush/Channel/Image/Path/Pattern/...] I agree that it would help if the scripts were moved to elsewhere in the menus, but I reiterate my point that I do not think they do not belong in the Select menu. Sincerely Alan Horkan http://advogato.org/person/AlanHorkan/ Inkscape, Draw Freely http://inkscape.org Free SVG Clip Art http://OpenClipArt.org ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Selection to brush/pattern/whatever in menus...
Hi, Popolon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > The menu Select could have an organisation for these conversions as: > > Select->To...->[Brush/Channel/Image/Path/Pattern/...] > > to avoid a to long Select menu. > > and a 'Selection To Brush/Pattern' button could be in brush/Pattern > windows, as there is 'Selection to Path' button in Path window. Yes, the plan's to move the scripts out of the script-fu menu into the places they belong to. What's missing here though is a better menu registration functionality in Script-Fu. Kevin wanted to add a bug report about this. Basically we need to be able to register Script-Fus into the common menu hierarchy without breaking internationalization. What needs to be done here is do the same change we did for plug-ins and introduce a function similar to gimp_plugin_menu_register() to Script-Fu and Tiny-Fu. Sven ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
