Re: [Gimp-developer] Getting the recognition that GIMP deserves
On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 12:07 PM, Alexandre Prokoudine alexandre.prokoud...@gmail.com wrote: …or get a fork and… ;) ...a knife and have a good meal. The only fork of GIMP that really survived is Seashore. It's targeted at an essentially different group of users. There's also cinepaint that was geared for movie world and the painter fork that seems to be maintained rather sanely as a set of patches on vanilla gimp. There's a few things that Id like to merge from there, but it's a bit tricky and we are too late in 2.8 cycle. -- --Alexia ___ gimp-developer-list mailing list gimp-developer-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer-list
Re: [Gimp-developer] Getting the recognition that GIMP deserves
On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 2:13 PM, Alexia Death wrote: There's also cinepaint that was geared for movie world and the painter fork that seems to be maintained rather sanely as a set of patches on vanilla gimp. There's a few things that Id like to merge from there, but it's a bit tricky and we are too late in 2.8 cycle. Cinepaint hasn't made releases in years (and two of the last releases don't even have source code tarballs) despite of endless promises. The only thing that is alive is Kai-Uwe's Git tree where occasional development happens, again, without releases. Out of curiousity, what exactly would you like to merge from Cinepaint? :) Alexandre Prokoudine http://libregraphicsworld.org ___ gimp-developer-list mailing list gimp-developer-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer-list
Re: [Gimp-developer] Getting the recognition that GIMP deserves
On 10/11/2011 12:47, Rob Antonishen wrote: The same could be said for any complex piece of software. I would disagree that there are many middle ground users anymore - and they shouldn't be a a target audience. So take the power users then. They might want to use a recent development version at work... still worth having a professional looking product. -- Best regards, Jeremy Morton (Jez) ___ gimp-developer-list mailing list gimp-developer-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer-list
Re: [Gimp-developer] Getting the recognition that GIMP deserves
On 11-11-10 18:51 , Alexandre Prokoudine wrote: Using development versions causes cancer, brings 20 year of unluck on your family and kills kittens by thousands. People wo use graphics software professionally tend to use apps that produce _repeatedly_ consistent output. No dev version _ever_ guarantees that. I find it highly distrurbuing that such a simple thing should even be explained. It's the curiosity that kills all those kittens and other fluffy critters and leads astray to various 'deviances' that I will consider perfectly 'normal' and highly desirable in due course. :) No, I really think 'a general user won't see it' is a lame excuse. It would make many people happy, me especially, and make the world a nicer place, if only someone could come up with a solid working definition of 'a general user' so that we can finally integrate the little creep in design processes. As I see it, 'a general user' is a myth occasionally used to allegorically describe 'those who don't code/contribute'. Despite the friendly warnings, easy-to-understand user-friendly version labeling intricacies and the aforementioned looming misfortune to those who dare, everyone's eager to get their hands on a new GIMP version. I like to believe that there are 'us' and 'them' when imagining who should see which version, but in practice, many of us/them will see it. That's why I don't see that clear cut between 'us' and 'them' in open source. With Alexia's explanation of the image (thanks!). As an image, I like it even more now. Still, the opening splash is one of those places where you can communicate in short what this version is about and what to expect; in an effort to reduce bad experience, improve information clarity and (w code magic and UI cleanup) contribute to the deserved identity and acceptance. Might cure asthma, too... The universally accepted knowledge is that the more you scratch, the more you want to continue to scratch. Stop scratching and visit a doctor :) Personally, I find the whole topic a horrible waste of time. Offended by the splash screen? Draw a better one. Want GIMP to be better recognized? Start producing awesome art with it. Sorry to see lack of hi-end features? Get involved with development. Exactly those itches. No doctor for that, but the self-therapy you mention... And you busted my carefully crafted closing maieutics I was so proud of. :) Thank you... now I'm gonna go and kill kittens and them fluffies! Gimme that red hot dev version, I have a deadline to meet! ... Till today, I didn't even know that there's another kind of gimp. There goes my carefully crafted deviance, too. Ah well... ___ gimp-developer-list mailing list gimp-developer-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer-list
Re: [Gimp-developer] Getting the recognition that GIMP deserves
On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 5:07 PM, Aleksandar Kovac wrote: No, I really think 'a general user won't see it' is a lame excuse. It would make many people happy, me especially, and make the world a nicer place, if only someone could come up with a solid working definition of 'a general user' so that we can finally integrate the little creep in design processes. As I see it, 'a general user' is a myth occasionally used to allegorically describe 'those who don't code/contribute'. http://gui.gimp.org/index.php/User_Scenarios Simply put, I don't expect an average pro who _always_ works on deadlines to suddenly feel like installing dev version. The relative stability of 2.7 is a bonus, not a rule. Alexandre Prokoudine http://libregraphicsworld.org ___ gimp-developer-list mailing list gimp-developer-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer-list
Re: [Gimp-developer] Getting the recognition that GIMP deserves
On 10/11/2011 13:45, Alexia Death wrote: On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 2:59 PM, Jeremy Mortonad...@game-point.net wrote: On 10/11/2011 12:47, Rob Antonishen wrote: The same could be said for any complex piece of software. I would disagree that there are many middle ground users anymore - and they shouldn't be a a target audience. So take the power users then. They might want to use a recent development version at work... still worth having a professional looking product. They are NOT SUPPOSED TO do exactly that! Ever! They may want to, but its not a good idea from anybody's perceptive. Development versions may for example write incompatible or corrupt files may have features that will not be in the final stable release etc... Concrete sample: At the beginning of 2.7 cycle layer group masks were enabled. They sort of worked but were buggy and deemed too buggy to be fixed in this cycle aand thus were disabled. Now people who used that version in some place they shouldn't have have files that no longer work as intended in current version of GIMP. No functionality present in dev release is guaranteed to be there in a stable version. Arguing that we should use nice splashes so people could shoot themselves in the foot is silly. Well if you want advanced users to use final releases, perhaps release them more often than once every 2 years? ;-) -- Best regards, Jeremy Morton (Jez) ___ gimp-developer-list mailing list gimp-developer-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer-list
Re: [Gimp-developer] Getting the recognition that GIMP deserves
On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 4:05 PM, phanisvara das listm...@phanisvara.com wrote: martin nordholts, in a blog post from 2009 ( http://www.chromecode.com/2009/12/best-way-to-keep-up-with-gimp-from-git_26.html ) : The more people that use the latest GIMP code from git the better. It keeps the required effort to contribute code upstreams small, which in turn increases the likelihood of upstream contributions, and it makes bugs more vulnerable to early discovery which minimizes their impact. Keeping up with git is not the same as installing a dev version for production use! People who build and use git are good the same way as people using dev versions with full awareness of the caveats are good. But if somebody suggested installing git at work, the same objection would apply. Even more so than for dev releases. People who build and use git need to be at least somewhat aware what is going on in development and be ready to interact with developers up on finding bugs. A git snapshot from two hours ago may be obsolete... -- --Alexia ___ gimp-developer-list mailing list gimp-developer-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer-list
Re: [Gimp-developer] Getting the recognition that GIMP deserves
I hope that we do continue with smart funny developer splashes even if they offend some. I would be sad to find that the overly politically correct (imho) would be the ones that set the bar so low for the rest of us. It's a part of open source to make jokes like that. It always has. Smart people think like that. Please, Martin, don't make the decision not to ever do it again. It would harm GIMP's soul. Patrick ___ gimp-developer-list mailing list gimp-developer-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer-list
Re: [Gimp-developer] Getting the recognition that GIMP deserves
On 11/10/2011 12:39 AM, Alexia Death wrote: ... elision by patrick ... Aside all that, by personal firm belief is that we get trolled over the name and other things so much that occasionally trolling back is mandatory for sanity ;) I know Martin disagrees ;) Thank you. Please carry on. Smart and funny will always offend someone, but please don't change for the lowest denominator. Next thing you know someone will be proposing an HR department for GIMP. Patrick ___ gimp-developer-list mailing list gimp-developer-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer-list
Re: [Gimp-developer] Getting the recognition that GIMP deserves
Hi Aleksandar, Am 10.11.2011 07:34, schrieb Aleksandar Kovac: [..] I have noticed last year, as a part of a research, that among the users, there are GIMP 'monks' way up 'above' who seem to know every trick and loophole there is. Then, there are those brave initiates who try enthusiastically. Many of them don't stick for too long, but some do. And then there is a big, big void in the middle. That void is a result of low acceptance, I think. A problem you mentioned. The users 'in the middle' are a very important part of the ecosystem, since they usually produce the bulk of various outputs valuable for project. Artwork, feedback, ideas, inspirations, frustrations. The 'middle part' are the users who are not wizards neither newbies. They know how things are going and they can use them fairly well for what they're trying to create, and they are capable of voicing the praises and issues in a more-less intelligible fashion within the context. Since the focus of my research is elsewhere, I did not dig deeper into this, but the absence of 'those in the middle' when it comes to GIMP struck me an indication or a symptom that something's off. interesting observation. To contrast with Alan Cooper's perpetual intermediates, cited here by Jeff Atwood: http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2004/10/defending-perpetual-intermediacy.html best regards, yahvuu ___ gimp-developer-list mailing list gimp-developer-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer-list
