Re: [Gimp-developer] Adobe software issues

2013-05-08 Thread Elle Stone 
On 5/8/13, Clayton Walker  wrote:
> Considering the fact that Adobe even has a separate program called Adobe
> Camera Raw, I don't see why gimp should necessarily include a raw loader.
> Perhaps maintainers could bundle gimp with ufraw, but to combine the two
> projects makes little sense.

The thing is, ACR is packaged as an integral part of Photoshop (or
was, haven't seen any recent versions of Photoshop), and it's
extremely convenient to use from within Photoshop. If you hang around
the Luminous Landscape forums, you'll often find people mentioning
that this or that raw processor is "much better than ACR", but they
only use the "good" raw processor for really important images because
ACR is quick and convenient.

It might be the case that the stand-alone raw processors with Gimp
plugins and/or the automatic "send to Gimp" feature would go a long
way towards offsetting the "ACR is so convenient" factor. Also
batch-processing is an option. But not being familiar with the OP's
workflow and time constraints, it's hard to say what might work. Most
of us can be very resistant to changing how we do things!

It seems to me that dcraw and UFRaw are considerably faster and/or
simpler to use than some of the other alternatives. I didn't mention
Rawstudio, but it also seems suited for a very fast-paced workflow.
Also, which raw processor would work the best depends on whether the
OP wants to use DCP (RawTherapee, RawStudio) or ICC (they all support
ICC) camera input profiles.

I agree that adding raw processing to Gimp itself (as opposed to
plugins/export options) seems superfluous given the excellent quality
and diversity of the existing open source raw processors.

> On Wed, May 8, 2013 at 8:36 AM, Guillermo Espertino (Gez) <
> gespert...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I'd add Darktable (www.dartable.org) to the list. It's awesome although
>> it's not available for windows, just Linux and OSX.

As an aside, Darktable allows for exporting 32-bit floating point
openexr images, which Gimp 2.9 can open, so with Darktable + Gimp you
can stay at 32-bit floating point without the need to output to a
lower bit depth before importing to Gimp.
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Re: [Gimp-developer] Adobe software issues

2013-05-08 Thread Clayton Walker 
Considering the fact that Adobe even has a separate program called Adobe
Camera Raw, I don't see why gimp should necessarily include a raw loader.
Perhaps maintainers could bundle gimp with ufraw, but to combine the two
projects makes little sense.
Perhaps ufraw could be displayed more prominently on the gimp website?
AFAIK, it supports higher the high bit-depth loading in gimp-2.9.


On Wed, May 8, 2013 at 8:36 AM, Guillermo Espertino (Gez) <
gespert...@gmail.com> wrote:

> El 08/05/13 09:26, Elle Stone escribió:
>
>  This isn't a direct reply to your question, as you are asking whether
>> Gimp itself can or will handle raw processing and I'm not sure
>> when/whether the Gimp developers intend to go that direction. But
>> there are two alternative approaches already being used by many people
>> who use Gimp:
>>
>> First, at least two open source raw processors have plugins to allow
>> use with Gimp:
>>
>> http://photivo.org/photivo/**download_and_setup/gimp
>> http://ufraw.sourceforge.net/**Install.html
>>
>> Second, Raw Therapee (and no doubt most other open source raw
>> processors) allow the possibility of setting things up so that the
>> processed image is automatically sent to Gimp:
>>
>> http://www.rawtherapee.com/
>>
>> Almost all raw processors (proprietary and open source) use dcraw to
>> decode (but not to process) the raw images. So when dcraw adds support
>> for a new camera, the various raw processors also update their code,
>> usually very quickly in git/subversion/etc, more slowly in terms of an
>> actual new release.
>>
>> If you need immediate support for a new camera that is not yet
>> supported by your chosen raw processor, dcraw (command line) can be
>> used to process the image (it's easier than you might think, even if
>> you don't usually use the command line).
>>
>> Even if a new camera isn't yet supported officially by dcraw, usually
>> you can decode it using the "-o 0" option to output raw color, in
>> which case you would need to create and apply a custom camera input
>> profile. The list of currently supported cameras is here:
>>
>> http://www.cybercom.net/~**dcoffin/dcraw/
>>
>> and if you read the faqs (same page), you'll find suggestions for
>> getting a new camera supported more quickly than might happen if you
>> just wait until the camera winds its way through the usual channels.
>>
>> The default ACR settings result in an image that has been made
>> "prettier" by application of a default black point, added contrast, an
>> S-curve, and some saturation, sharpening, noise removal, etc. The open
>> source "gui" raw processors (UFRaw, Photivo, RawTherapee, etc) all
>> have their own default "prettier" settings, but you probably would
>> want to experiment to find the settings that are prettier to you.
>> dcraw is a pure raw processor, that is, it doesn't do any
>> "prettifying" post-interpolation image processing, so the results will
>> look flat until you add your own curves, saturation, etc.
>>
>> Kind regards,
>> Elle Stone
>>
>
> I'd add Darktable (www.dartable.org) to the list. It's awesome although
> it's not available for windows, just Linux and OSX.
>
> The aforementioned programs are specialized tools for RAW processing and
> can be used in conjunction with GIMP, pretty much like Adobe Photoshop uses
> Adobe Camera Raw as a gateway instead of offering tools for processing RAW
> directly in Photoshop.
>
> __**_
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>



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Re: [Gimp-developer] Adobe software issues

2013-05-08 Thread Guillermo Espertino (Gez) 

El 08/05/13 09:26, Elle Stone escribió:

This isn't a direct reply to your question, as you are asking whether
Gimp itself can or will handle raw processing and I'm not sure
when/whether the Gimp developers intend to go that direction. But
there are two alternative approaches already being used by many people
who use Gimp:

First, at least two open source raw processors have plugins to allow
use with Gimp:

http://photivo.org/photivo/download_and_setup/gimp
http://ufraw.sourceforge.net/Install.html

Second, Raw Therapee (and no doubt most other open source raw
processors) allow the possibility of setting things up so that the
processed image is automatically sent to Gimp:

http://www.rawtherapee.com/

Almost all raw processors (proprietary and open source) use dcraw to
decode (but not to process) the raw images. So when dcraw adds support
for a new camera, the various raw processors also update their code,
usually very quickly in git/subversion/etc, more slowly in terms of an
actual new release.

If you need immediate support for a new camera that is not yet
supported by your chosen raw processor, dcraw (command line) can be
used to process the image (it's easier than you might think, even if
you don't usually use the command line).

Even if a new camera isn't yet supported officially by dcraw, usually
you can decode it using the "-o 0" option to output raw color, in
which case you would need to create and apply a custom camera input
profile. The list of currently supported cameras is here:

http://www.cybercom.net/~dcoffin/dcraw/

and if you read the faqs (same page), you'll find suggestions for
getting a new camera supported more quickly than might happen if you
just wait until the camera winds its way through the usual channels.

The default ACR settings result in an image that has been made
"prettier" by application of a default black point, added contrast, an
S-curve, and some saturation, sharpening, noise removal, etc. The open
source "gui" raw processors (UFRaw, Photivo, RawTherapee, etc) all
have their own default "prettier" settings, but you probably would
want to experiment to find the settings that are prettier to you.
dcraw is a pure raw processor, that is, it doesn't do any
"prettifying" post-interpolation image processing, so the results will
look flat until you add your own curves, saturation, etc.

Kind regards,
Elle Stone


I'd add Darktable (www.dartable.org) to the list. It's awesome although 
it's not available for windows, just Linux and OSX.


The aforementioned programs are specialized tools for RAW processing and 
can be used in conjunction with GIMP, pretty much like Adobe Photoshop 
uses Adobe Camera Raw as a gateway instead of offering tools for 
processing RAW directly in Photoshop.

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Re: [Gimp-developer] Adobe software issues

2013-05-08 Thread Elle Stone 
This isn't a direct reply to your question, as you are asking whether
Gimp itself can or will handle raw processing and I'm not sure
when/whether the Gimp developers intend to go that direction. But
there are two alternative approaches already being used by many people
who use Gimp:

First, at least two open source raw processors have plugins to allow
use with Gimp:

http://photivo.org/photivo/download_and_setup/gimp
http://ufraw.sourceforge.net/Install.html

Second, Raw Therapee (and no doubt most other open source raw
processors) allow the possibility of setting things up so that the
processed image is automatically sent to Gimp:

http://www.rawtherapee.com/

Almost all raw processors (proprietary and open source) use dcraw to
decode (but not to process) the raw images. So when dcraw adds support
for a new camera, the various raw processors also update their code,
usually very quickly in git/subversion/etc, more slowly in terms of an
actual new release.

If you need immediate support for a new camera that is not yet
supported by your chosen raw processor, dcraw (command line) can be
used to process the image (it's easier than you might think, even if
you don't usually use the command line).

Even if a new camera isn't yet supported officially by dcraw, usually
you can decode it using the "-o 0" option to output raw color, in
which case you would need to create and apply a custom camera input
profile. The list of currently supported cameras is here:

http://www.cybercom.net/~dcoffin/dcraw/

and if you read the faqs (same page), you'll find suggestions for
getting a new camera supported more quickly than might happen if you
just wait until the camera winds its way through the usual channels.

The default ACR settings result in an image that has been made
"prettier" by application of a default black point, added contrast, an
S-curve, and some saturation, sharpening, noise removal, etc. The open
source "gui" raw processors (UFRaw, Photivo, RawTherapee, etc) all
have their own default "prettier" settings, but you probably would
want to experiment to find the settings that are prettier to you.
dcraw is a pure raw processor, that is, it doesn't do any
"prettifying" post-interpolation image processing, so the results will
look flat until you add your own curves, saturation, etc.

Kind regards,
Elle Stone




On 5/8/13, Margaret Brown  wrote:
> Hi
>
> With Adobe withdrawing to the Cloud, there is a real need for GIMP to
> include a raw file developer that can act as a replacement for Adobe Camera
> Raw.
>
> If such an application could be produced and kept up-to-date when new
> cameras are released, we would be happy to support it and make it the
> default converter for our camera and lens tests. We would also be prepared
> to promote it through our magazine and website.
>
> With a growing number of photographers protesting against Adobe's
> announcements, the time is ripe for making GIMP the favoured image editor
> worldwide. But this can't happen until it gets good (and timely) raw file
> support.
>
> Kind regards
>
> Margaret Brown
>
> Technical Editor
>
> Photo Review Australia
>
> www.photoreview.com.au
>
>
>
>


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