Re: [Gimp-user] Gimp-2.8_Save and save as bad behavior
On Tuesday 14 August 2012 23:58:25 Alexandre Prokoudine wrote: > On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 11:40 PM, maderios wrote: > > Only "a native file format and a lossy file format" ? > > Hum (in french, sorry) > > Native for who ? > > 61 deleted messages later you finally started asking the right kind of > questions :) > > As already explained on a frigging huge amount of occasions that you > choose to ignore, GIMP is streamlined for people who work on complex > multilayered compositions with masks and whatnot, where XCF is always > saved, and files in delivery formats (e.g. PNG) are exported. > > Therefore the only native file format for GIMP is XCF. Period. > > Therefore GIMP always imports JPEG or PNG instead of just opening it. Full > stop. > > I can see how using "Open" could be a bit confusing as it both opens > (XCF) and imports (JPEG), but let's face it: this is not the reason > Ken and you are arguing till you are blue in the face. > > > Ex Non lossy: png, tiff... > > Oh, but they are. They do not preserve masks, and, when saved form > GIMP, TIFF does not preserve layers. It's lossy, no matter how much > you want to argue. > > Please just use Krita. > > Alexandre Prokoudine > http://libregraphicsworld.org Or mtpaint. -- Fortune cookie for Wednesday, August 15, 2012: I went to my first computer conference at the New York Hilton about 20 years ago. When somebody there predicted the market for microprocessors would eventually be in the millions, someone else said, "Where are they all going to go? It's not like you need a computer in every doorknob!" Years later, I went back to the same hotel. I noticed the room keys had been replaced by electronic cards you slide into slots in the doors. There was a computer in every doorknob. -- Danny Hillis ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] Gimp-2.8_Save and save as bad behavior
On Tuesday 14 August 2012 21:40:24 maderios wrote: > On 08/14/2012 09:21 PM, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote: > > On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 9:59 PM, Ken Warner wrote: > >> 1) Well then, if I open a jpg file and make layers and paths etc. and > >> want > >> to save my work, why is it anathema to export it as an XCF file? > > > > Gmail tells me there are 58 deleted messages in this conversation > > (yes). That is, after 58 messages you still don't understand the key > > difference between a native file format and a lossy file format. > > > > I think it's a call to close the conversation and kindly ask you to > > start learning essential principles of digital imaging before > > reopening the discussion. > > Only "a native file format and a lossy file format" ? > Hum (in french, sorry) > Native for who ? I presume .xcf is native for you. Not for me if I start > with a png, smaller than a xcf. > An image file is not "native" or lossy > Ex Lossy format: jpeg, gif > Ex Non lossy: png, tiff xcf > People are free to work with jpeg or gif. If they want to loss some > qualities, they can do do it if they know (or not, why not) what they do. > May be, they want to experiment, may be they'll find new forms, nobody > knows > Jpeg is destructive, may be it's interesting do destroy picture ? > Artist is free. Technics are made to be forgotten, otherwise, no Art > > Best regards > Maderios > PNG and JPG are not GIMP's native format. XCF is GIMPS native format as PSD is Photoshop's. PNG and JPEG are just some of the formats GIMP or Photoshop can be exported to so other apps can use them too. There is no contest to what formats people want to work in or use. Artists are not bounded by restrictions that such things should be so but rather experiment, use, employ what is available and create something new from these. I don't know who said that but that's what I would define an artist. I'm sorry to be so blatantly direct but so many just have rocks in their brains. Peace and much respect, (Maybe not for some) Archie -- Fortune cookie for Wednesday, August 15, 2012: Sailing is fun, but scrubbing the decks is aardvark. -- Heard on Noahs' ark ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] Gimp-2.8_Save and save as bad behavior
1. Export it to JPEG and exit GIMP or close the file clicking No you don't want to save as XCF. The point is for many work that are done and when it is saved as a PNG, and OMG the file was now opened as PNG and I closed it ... all your layers are gone! It's a failsafe. 2. Then it really is a minimal bother to anyone to Ctrl+E or Ctrl+Shift+E, be done with the file and close GIMP or the file clicking No you don't want a XCF. It simply required a little bit of not-so-hard rethinking. On Tuesday 14 August 2012 10:59:13 Ken Warner wrote: > 1) Well then, if I open a jpg file and make layers and paths etc. and want > to save my work, why is it anathema to export it as an XCF file? 2) Your > assumption is that there are layers after the image is flattened seems odd. > On 8/14/2012 9:39 AM, Burnie West wrote: > > On 08/14/2012 08:07 AM, Ken Warner wrote: > >> 1) What if saving a flattened image is exactly what I want to do. > > > > It's easy - just export it > > > >> 2) It is not exactly true that "further work is near impossible". > > > > But without the layers saved separately it's a lot more complex > > -- of course, depending on specifically what "further work" you want to > > do. > > ___ > > gimp-user-list mailing list > > gimp-user-list@gnome.org > > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list > > ___ > gimp-user-list mailing list > gimp-user-list@gnome.org > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list -- Fortune cookie for Wednesday, August 15, 2012: Scientists were preparing an experiment to ask the ultimate question. They had worked for months gathering one each of every computer that was built. Finally the big day was at hand. All the computers were linked together. They asked the question, "Is there a God?". Lights started blinking, flashing and blinking some more. Suddenly, there was a loud crash, and a bolt of lightning came down from the sky, struck the computers, and welded all the connections permanently together. "There is now", came the reply. ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] Gimp-2.8_Save and save as bad behavior
On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 11:40 PM, maderios wrote: > Only "a native file format and a lossy file format" ? > Hum (in french, sorry) > Native for who ? 61 deleted messages later you finally started asking the right kind of questions :) As already explained on a frigging huge amount of occasions that you choose to ignore, GIMP is streamlined for people who work on complex multilayered compositions with masks and whatnot, where XCF is always saved, and files in delivery formats (e.g. PNG) are exported. Therefore the only native file format for GIMP is XCF. Period. Therefore GIMP always imports JPEG or PNG instead of just opening it. Full stop. I can see how using "Open" could be a bit confusing as it both opens (XCF) and imports (JPEG), but let's face it: this is not the reason Ken and you are arguing till you are blue in the face. > Ex Non lossy: png, tiff... Oh, but they are. They do not preserve masks, and, when saved form GIMP, TIFF does not preserve layers. It's lossy, no matter how much you want to argue. Please just use Krita. Alexandre Prokoudine http://libregraphicsworld.org ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] Gimp-2.8_Save and save as bad behavior
On 08/14/2012 09:21 PM, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote: On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 9:59 PM, Ken Warner wrote: 1) Well then, if I open a jpg file and make layers and paths etc. and want to save my work, why is it anathema to export it as an XCF file? Gmail tells me there are 58 deleted messages in this conversation (yes). That is, after 58 messages you still don't understand the key difference between a native file format and a lossy file format. I think it's a call to close the conversation and kindly ask you to start learning essential principles of digital imaging before reopening the discussion. Only "a native file format and a lossy file format" ? Hum (in french, sorry) Native for who ? I presume .xcf is native for you. Not for me if I start with a png, smaller than a xcf. An image file is not "native" or lossy Ex Lossy format: jpeg, gif Ex Non lossy: png, tiff xcf People are free to work with jpeg or gif. If they want to loss some qualities, they can do do it if they know (or not, why not) what they do. May be, they want to experiment, may be they'll find new forms, nobody knows Jpeg is destructive, may be it's interesting do destroy picture ? Artist is free. Technics are made to be forgotten, otherwise, no Art Best regards Maderios ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] Timeline for sequenced layers - a hybrid compositor
On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 1:56 AM, Burnie West wrote: >> IMO, it would be cool somehow if layer group will handle color correction >> and filters as well. >> > Sounds like a good plug-in idea - - - Only if 3rd party... In 2.10 plug-ins as we know them are either dead or struggling to survive :) Alexandre Prokoudine http://libregraphicsworld.org ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] Gimp-2.8_Save and save as bad behavior
...and it still seems as if you have a reading comprehension problem. I asked a simple question -- I think if you would take the time to try and understand the question, you wouldn't be so insulting to people who disagree with your "design principles". On 8/14/2012 12:21 PM, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote: On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 9:59 PM, Ken Warner wrote: 1) Well then, if I open a jpg file and make layers and paths etc. and want to save my work, why is it anathema to export it as an XCF file? Gmail tells me there are 58 deleted messages in this conversation (yes). That is, after 58 messages you still don't understand the key difference between a native file format and a lossy file format. I think it's a call to close the conversation and kindly ask you to start learning essential principles of digital imaging before reopening the discussion. Alexandre Prokoudine http://libregraphicsworld.org ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] Gimp-2.8_Save and save as bad behavior
On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 9:59 PM, Ken Warner wrote: > 1) Well then, if I open a jpg file and make layers and paths etc. and want > to save my work, why is it anathema to export it as an XCF file? Gmail tells me there are 58 deleted messages in this conversation (yes). That is, after 58 messages you still don't understand the key difference between a native file format and a lossy file format. I think it's a call to close the conversation and kindly ask you to start learning essential principles of digital imaging before reopening the discussion. Alexandre Prokoudine http://libregraphicsworld.org ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] Gimp-2.8_Save and save as bad behavior
1) Well then, if I open a jpg file and make layers and paths etc. and want to save my work, why is it anathema to export it as an XCF file? 2) Your assumption is that there are layers after the image is flattened seems odd. On 8/14/2012 9:39 AM, Burnie West wrote: On 08/14/2012 08:07 AM, Ken Warner wrote: 1) What if saving a flattened image is exactly what I want to do. It's easy - just export it 2) It is not exactly true that "further work is near impossible". But without the layers saved separately it's a lot more complex -- of course, depending on specifically what "further work" you want to do. ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] GIMP is GREAT!
On 08/14/2012 07:05 PM, Michael Schumacher wrote: Von: Alexandre Prokoudine On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 7:16 PM, maderios wrote: Both of you, may I suggest that you move your private conversation to private mail? In my opinion, there's no further insight that can be gained for the other readers, although the quite civilized discussion is certainly worthwhile by itself. Hi Michael We're talking about Gimp in the gimp-user-list. Absolutely "normal" Best regards Maderios ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] GIMP is GREAT!
On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 9:05 PM, Michael Schumacher wrote: > may I suggest that you move your private conversation to private mail? If it was a private conversation, I wouldn't be maintaining it :) But yes, I agree. This is just tiresome. EOT for me. Alexandre Prokoudine http://libregraphicsworld.org ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] GIMP is GREAT!
> Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2012 13:24:58 +0200 > From: mader...@gmail.com > To: gimp-user-list@gnome.org > Subject: Re: [Gimp-user] GIMP is GREAT! > > PS: sorry for my bad english, I'm french Don't worry about that, the worst English always comes from native speakers who are just too lazy to use even their own tongue properly :P -- Stratadrake strata_ran...@hotmail.com Numbers may not lie, but neither do they tell the whole truth. ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] GIMP is GREAT!
> Von: Alexandre Prokoudine > On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 7:16 PM, maderios wrote: Both of you, may I suggest that you move your private conversation to private mail? In my opinion, there's no further insight that can be gained for the other readers, although the quite civilized discussion is certainly worthwhile by itself. Thanks, Michael ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] GIMP is GREAT!
On 08/14/2012 05:31 PM, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote: On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 7:16 PM, maderios wrote: Hi Alexandre Really ? In 1987, "digital photography" didn't exist... We (photographers) were using color slides, and the contrast was a big problem... Easier with negative but useless for commercial use. Then, 1990 years, some colleagues began using P$$op for editing and archiving their photos. It was the beginning. "Thomas renamed his program Photoshop and worked out a short-term deal with scanner manufacturer Barneyscan to distribute copies of the program with a slide scanner" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adobe_Photoshop#Early_history Your ability to open and read WIkipedia is commendable, but I strongly suggest that you read the full history that I linked to :) Photographers weren't the reason to create Photoshop. It came next. Thanks for the link The first reason was professionnal, not amateur (like Gimp) then, soon, professional photography editing. Recently, amateur people discovered and started using pho$$op. To improve Gimp, developpers should listen to professional people. It's a chance About democracy and Gnu/Linux software developpement: http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2012/08/msg00844.html Regards Maderios ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] Gimp-2.8_Save and save as bad behavior
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2012 21:45:48 +0200 From: ofn...@laposte.net To: gimp-user-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: [Gimp-user] Gimp-2.8_Save and save as bad behavior On 08/13/2012 09:09 PM, maderios wrote: On 08/13/2012 09:00 PM, Archie Arevalo wrote: On Monday 13 August 2012 11:35:38 Ken Warner wrote: > "But, continuing to *argue* here is fruitless." > > This is most certainly and sadly true. > How about looking at it this way... We see the reasons behind the change May you explain here the reasons of the change concerning save and save as ? Before: - Creates complex images with several layers, paths, masks - Wants a PNG to show Mr Customer - Does Save as... PNG - Exits -> lost the last changes in layers, paths, masks So somewhere you need some way to tell Gimp that when you save as PNG (or JPG/GIF/TIIF) you aren't really saving. Now: - Creates complex images with several layers, paths, masks - Wants a PNG to show Mr Customer - Does Export as... PNG - Exits -> Gimp complains image not saved -> No loss of layers, paths, masks This comparison of GIMP 2.6 and 2.8 demonstrates one of the reasons why the save/export distinction was made in the first place. If you're working on a multilayer XCF composition and use the "Save" command on a non-XCF (e.g. PNG) format, then: - GIMP doesn't warn you about unsaved changes when you try to exit. - Further invocations of the "Save" command target the PNG file, not your original XCF. (You should have used the "Save a Copy" command instead of "Save", but I guess nobody ever uses that). You have to manually "Save As" on the XCF filename again. The most consistent way of solving the issue was to separate XCF and standard file formats into separate commands. Now I am not entirely happy with it - over half my work in GIMP currently involves writing to standard image files so I definitely would like to see an "Export/cancel" warning instead of just a warning if you try to type in a non-XCF filename, and I still think "Save a Copy" should be merged as part of the "Export" command since the only (user-visible) difference between them is the type of file format they write to (neither of them cleans the image status or changes the filename associated with the image). But I am also familiar enough with the whole "project" concept to know when I should keep a workfile handy so I can come back and work on it later. Another thing that I would like to see, however, is a confirmation warning if you try to use the Overwrite command on a JPEG file; lossy compression and all that -- Stratadrake strata_ran...@hotmail.com Numbers may not lie, but neither do they tell the whole truth. ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] Gimp-2.8_Save and save as bad behavior
On 08/14/2012 08:07 AM, Ken Warner wrote: 1) What if saving a flattened image is exactly what I want to do. It's easy - just export it 2) It is not exactly true that "further work is near impossible". But without the layers saved separately it's a lot more complex -- of course, depending on specifically what "further work" you want to do. ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] GIMP is GREAT!
On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 7:16 PM, maderios wrote: > Hi Alexandre > > Really ? In 1987, "digital photography" didn't exist... We (photographers) > were using color slides, and the contrast was a big problem... Easier with > negative but useless for commercial use. Then, 1990 years, some colleagues > began using P$$op for editing and archiving their photos. It was the > beginning. > > "Thomas renamed his program Photoshop and worked out a short-term deal with > scanner manufacturer Barneyscan to distribute copies of the program with a > slide scanner" > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adobe_Photoshop#Early_history Your ability to open and read WIkipedia is commendable, but I strongly suggest that you read the full history that I linked to :) Photographers weren't the reason to create Photoshop. It came next. Now, as for GIMP, we did work with professional photographers and we are going to work with them in the future. I understand that you are unwilling to read whatever links I throw at you, but maybe this time it's going to work? Here are raw evaluation notes from 2006 usability study: http://gui.gimp.org/index.php/Evaluation_Notes_-_Photo_Realistic > PS: > I used Cinepaint in the past Very well :) I just hope we are not having a "who started doing computer graphics earlier" contest 'round here. Not that I didn't have fond memories of using a light pen around 1986 :) Alexandre Prokoudine http://libregraphicsworld.org ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] how to fill...
On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 8:32 AM, scythargon wrote: > I have area(the whole layer) that I have filled with semi-transparent > gradient, so now, I select it - (layer->alpha to selection) and trying to > fill with ordinary non-transparent color, but I get the same area with the > same semi-transparent gradient, the only thing that I changed - the main > color of gradient:( You're selecting only the alpha channel. On that layer, "Select All", then fill. Chris ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] GIMP is GREAT!
On 08/14/2012 01:39 PM, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote: On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 3:24 PM, maderios wrote: 2)I'm not complaining about Gimp, Gimp is a very good software. I'm just saying the new Gimp-2.8 behavior (concerning save and save as ) is an error. This error takes away Gimp-2.8 of the world of the professionals. Except professionals tend to like this change, but yeah, what do we know? :) It's always the professionals who pull tools upward and not amateurs... Example : Ph$$op was created for professional photographers and with professional photographers. Um, no. It wasn't :) Hi Alexandre Really ? In 1987, "digital photography" didn't exist... We (photographers) were using color slides, and the contrast was a big problem... Easier with negative but useless for commercial use. Then, 1990 years, some colleagues began using P$$op for editing and archiving their photos. It was the beginning. "Thomas renamed his program Photoshop and worked out a short-term deal with scanner manufacturer Barneyscan to distribute copies of the program with a slide scanner" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adobe_Photoshop#Early_history Regards Maderios PS: I used Cinepaint in the past https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CinePaint http://www.cinepaint.org/ http://www.cinepaint.org/more/ http://sourceforge.net/projects/cinepaint/files/CinePaint/ ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] Gimp-2.8_Save and save as bad behavior
1) What if saving a flattened image is exactly what I want to do. 2) It is not exactly true that "further work is near impossible". On 8/14/2012 4:01 AM, Ofnuts wrote: With the previous behavior, if you "save" in a non-XCF file format, then all you save is a flattened image on which further work is near impossible. gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] de-flattening layers
On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 4:59 PM, Misty Day wrote: > No, actually -- I sent a flattened GIMP image to a friend with photoshop and > he floored me by being able to separate the layers and manipulate them > anyway. I have some flattened images I would like to do that with and am > wondering if it is possible in GIMP. It would save me a lot of time. It's possible to separate objects from a flattened image depending on how much those objects blend into the surrounding area. For example, GIMP has Foreground Select Tool: http://docs.gimp.org/2.8/en/gimp-tool-foreground-select.html Once you have a selection of an object, you can create a layer from it (Ctrl+X to cut, Ctrl+Shift+V to paste as a new layer). It will not perfectly work for each and every case, though. So you'd have to show us some examples of those images. Otherwise we can only give you general directions. Alexandre Prokoudine http://libregraphicsworld.org ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] Gimp-2.8_Save and save as bad behavior
On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 5:13 PM, maderios wrote: Earlier today: > This error takes away Gimp-2.8 of the world of the professional_s_. And now: > What you call "safety belt/hard hat" is useless for _me_... This is the main problem I have with your argumentation: talking for many people, while it's just about your personal preferences. You've been provided options. What is your reason for continuing this thread? Alexandre Prokoudine http://libregraphicsworld.org ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
[Gimp-user] how to fill...
I have area(the whole layer) that I have filled with semi-transparent gradient, so now, I select it - (layer->alpha to selection) and trying to fill with ordinary non-transparent color, but I get the same area with the same semi-transparent gradient, the only thing that I changed - the main color of gradient:( -- scythargon (via gimpusers.com) ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
[Gimp-user] de-flattening layers
No, actually -- I sent a flattened GIMP image to a friend with photoshop and he floored me by being able to separate the layers and manipulate them anyway. I have some flattened images I would like to do that with and am wondering if it is possible in GIMP. It would save me a lot of time.___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] Gimp-2.8_Save and save as bad behavior
On 08/14/2012 01:01 PM, Ofnuts wrote: On 08/13/2012 11:29 PM, maderios wrote: On 08/13/2012 09:45 PM, Ofnuts wrote: We see the reasons behind the change May you explain here the reasons of the change concerning save and save as ? Before: - Creates complex images with several layers, paths, masks - Wants a PNG to show Mr Customer - Does Save as... PNG - Exits -> lost the last changes in layers, paths, masks So somewhere you need some way to tell Gimp that when you save as PNG (or JPG/GIF/TIIF) you aren't really saving. Now: - Creates complex images with several layers, paths, masks - Wants a PNG to show Mr Customer - Does Export as... PNG - Exits -> Gimp complains image not saved -> No loss of layers, paths, masks Hi Ofnuts You don't answer my question about the reasons of the change concerning save and save as. I simply try to understand and it's not easy because the change is not coherent. It is strange that evolution that leads to slow down workflow is presented as a progress ... I started my Linux and Gimp user life in 1999: Redhat, Mandrake, Suse, Mandriva, Fedora, Debian now, the best ... I don't like desktops like Gnome, Kde, Xfce. I use E17, very light and nice desktop (yes it is), quite a long time http://www.enlightenment.org/ I had time and I take time to train me to adapt but I can't adapt to waste my time with this incoherent behavior of "save" in Gimp-2.8. My job is the priority, so back to Gimp-2.6. I have time to wait.. Perhaps we'll open a "wishlist" bug ? I don't know Hi Ofnuts With the previous behavior, if you "save" in a non-XCF file format, then all you save is a flattened image on which further work is near impossible. Yes, but you have the choice. It's the most important. Editing images requires some attention And since you have "saved" the image, you can quit Gimp without updating the XCF of disk and you lost some of your work. Many people have been burnt by this. Because they don't pay attention and don't save their work ! Another use case is working on a complex image, and producing proof images (PNG/JPG) at various stages. WIth the current behavior, you change the "base name" of the image, further saves clobers the proof images. So you have to remember to resave as XCF. The current behavior makes it more obvious when you save to the XCF and when you produce some other format. So now Gimp comes with a safety belt/hard hat. I never lost any image when editing with Gimp during 13 years. You have to save files according to the progress of the work, of course. What you call "safety belt/hard hat" is useless for me and it slows down workflow. Regards Maderios ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] GIMP is GREAT!
On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 3:24 PM, maderios wrote: > 2)I'm not complaining about Gimp, Gimp is a very good software. I'm just > saying the new Gimp-2.8 behavior (concerning save and save as ) is an error. > This error takes away Gimp-2.8 of the world of the professionals. Except professionals tend to like this change, but yeah, what do we know? :) > It's always the professionals who pull tools upward and not amateurs... > Example : Ph$$op was created for professional photographers and with > professional photographers. Um, no. It wasn't :) http://photoshopnews.com/feature-stories/photoshop-profile-thomas-john-knoll-10/ Now, what happened later is a whole different story. > PS: sorry for my bad english, I'm french No need to be sorry about that. Your English is fine. Alexandre Prokoudine http://libregraphicsworld.org ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] GIMP is GREAT!
On 08/13/2012 10:30 PM, Rauh, Stuart wrote: As one of the silent majority who are extremely happy with GIMP and the behavior in latest version, Hi 1) it's not because people are silent they approve... 2)I'm not complaining about Gimp, Gimp is a very good software. I'm just saying the new Gimp-2.8 behavior (concerning save and save as ) is an error. This error takes away Gimp-2.8 of the world of the professionals. It's always the professionals who pull tools upward and not amateurs... Example : Ph$$op was created for professional photographers and with professional photographers. Regards Maderios PS: sorry for my bad english, I'm french ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] Gimp-2.8_Save and save as bad behavior
On 08/13/2012 11:29 PM, maderios wrote: On 08/13/2012 09:45 PM, Ofnuts wrote: We see the reasons behind the change May you explain here the reasons of the change concerning save and save as ? Before: - Creates complex images with several layers, paths, masks - Wants a PNG to show Mr Customer - Does Save as... PNG - Exits -> lost the last changes in layers, paths, masks So somewhere you need some way to tell Gimp that when you save as PNG (or JPG/GIF/TIIF) you aren't really saving. Now: - Creates complex images with several layers, paths, masks - Wants a PNG to show Mr Customer - Does Export as... PNG - Exits -> Gimp complains image not saved -> No loss of layers, paths, masks Hi Ofnuts You don't answer my question about the reasons of the change concerning save and save as. I simply try to understand and it's not easy because the change is not coherent. It is strange that evolution that leads to slow down workflow is presented as a progress ... I started my Linux and Gimp user life in 1999: Redhat, Mandrake, Suse, Mandriva, Fedora, Debian now, the best ... I don't like desktops like Gnome, Kde, Xfce. I use E17, very light and nice desktop (yes it is), quite a long time http://www.enlightenment.org/ I had time and I take time to train me to adapt but I can't adapt to waste my time with this incoherent behavior of "save" in Gimp-2.8. My job is the priority, so back to Gimp-2.6. I have time to wait.. Perhaps we'll open a "wishlist" bug ? I don't know With the previous behavior, if you "save" in a non-XCF file format, then all you save is a flattened image on which further work is near impossible. And since you have "saved" the image, you can quit Gimp without updating the XCF of disk and you lost some of your work. Many people have been burnt by this. Another use case is working on a complex image, and producing proof images (PNG/JPG) at various stages. WIth the current behavior, you change the "base name" of the image, further saves clobers the proof images. So you have to remember to resave as XCF. The current behavior makes it more obvious when you save to the XCF and when you produce some other format. So now Gimp comes with a safety belt/hard hat. You may find it annoying but you really get used to it and one day it will save your day. ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] unable to decrease the width of the Palette Editor window
> Von: Enda > I am unable to decrease the width of the Palette Editor window. How do > I do so? You probably can't, if the current width is the minimum width - which is likely determined by the entries for palette name and number of columns below the editor. Regards, Michael ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] Palette Editor won't stay on top when GIMP is in Fullscreen mode
> The Palette Editor won't stay on top when GIMP is in Fullscreen mode, > yet does when GIMP is not in Fullscreen mode. Maybe read http://docs.gimp.org/2.8/en/gimp-concepts-docks.html and go from there. -- Owen ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] unable to decrease the width of the Palette Editor window
> I am unable to decrease the width of the Palette Editor window. How do > I do so? Which version of gimp are you using? What OS? Normally just drag a corner of the dialog. -- Owen ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] How can I import this palette into the GIMP palettes?
> How can I import this palette into the GIMP palettes? > > /usr/share/kde4/apps/krita/palettes/1-classic-kit.gpl Windows > Dockable Dialogs > Palettes Right-click on the list of palettes and select "Import Palette". In the Import dialog, click the Palette file button and navigate to that file. Click the Import button. -- Owen ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
[Gimp-user] Palette Editor won't stay on top when GIMP is in Fullscreen mode
The Palette Editor won't stay on top when GIMP is in Fullscreen mode, yet does when GIMP is not in Fullscreen mode. - Enda___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
[Gimp-user] unable to decrease the width of the Palette Editor window
I am unable to decrease the width of the Palette Editor window. How do I do so? - Enda___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
[Gimp-user] How can I import this palette into the GIMP palettes?
How can I import this palette into the GIMP palettes? /usr/share/kde4/apps/krita/palettes/1-classic-kit.gpl - Enda___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] Layers in reverse
I think she's talking about something like this in p-shop, saving the psd plus flattened image: http://www.laughing-lion-design.com/2007/09/photoshop-tip-create-a-flattened-layer-and-keep-all-your-layers-intact/ Dan On 8/13/12, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote: > On Mon, Aug 13, 2012 at 10:55 AM, Oon-Ee Ng wrote: > >> Actually I think when opening PDFs with layer information Photoshop >> does allow it. PDFs aren't 'images' of course. > > AFAIK, no. Illustrator is capable of that, but Photoshop isn't. > > Alexandre Prokoudine > http://libregraphicsworld.org > ___ > gimp-user-list mailing list > gimp-user-list@gnome.org > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list > ___ gimp-user-list mailing list gimp-user-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
