Re: [Gimp-user] Histogramm -- values
OK, colour spaces are very confsing, but a very basic point is that the human spectral sensitivity has a pronounced peak in the green region, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luminosity_function. This is why any function deriving the perceived brightness or luminance from RGB, such as Rec709Luminance (0.212656 * R + 0.715158 * G + 0.072186 * B) weights the green far more than red and blue. This just reflects the spectral sensitivity of the human eye. The perceived brightness of purely red image at, say, 100 bit will be far less than that of a purely green image at 100 bit. Correspondingly, the latter should result in a leighter equivalent grey than the former. Gimp proceeds this way when converting a colour image to grey, as I have just tested: 100 R -- 21 G 100 G -- 72 G 100 B -- 7 G This is very close to Rec709Luminance. I just suggest that it should offer such a weighting in the histogramm for a colour image, i.e. the equivalent grey value at Gimp itself would calculate it. Wolfgang Hugemann ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] problem with mouse and bamboo pad
Hi, On Tue, Dec 3, 2013 at 6:17 PM, Brendan Scott disposableem...@apps.opensourcelaw.biz wrote: On 12/03/2013 03:28 PM, Jehan Pagès wrote: Hi, On Tue, Dec 3, 2013 at 4:26 PM, Patrick Shanahan ptilopt...@gmail.com wrote: openSUSE Tumbleweed gimp-2.8.8-80.1.x86_64 Just about had heart failure. Cannot select or draw or crop using my mouse. Then realized that I had my bamboo pad attached and found that it worked. Someone I know just had the same thing. Well I did not think about whether that would be the Wacom (intuos 5 here)'s fault because her tablet is always plugged in. But same, she could not select/draw with her mouse. She could with the laptop's pad and the tablet. I'll see if we can reproduce later. Will not the pad and mouse work together? or have I stumbled blindly onto a possible bug? No that's supposed to work (as 2 separate devices). So that's definitely a bug. If I can reproduce it, I'll try and fix this. fwiw this my experience (Intuos 5 touch M) as well. I figured I'd done something wrong in the settings. Well that makes 3 people, which is a pretty good sign there is actually something wrong somewhere. Are you also using GIMP 2.8.8, Brendan? Are you using Linux too? Unfortunately, we just tried again and have not been able to reproduce. Can any of you reproduce the issue everytime? Or it just happened this one time? If you can reproduce, would you have any reproduction steps for me? Thanks. Jehan ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] problem with mouse and bamboo pad
On 12/03/2013 09:24 PM, Jehan Pagès wrote: Hi, On Tue, Dec 3, 2013 at 6:17 PM, Brendan Scott disposableem...@apps.opensourcelaw.biz wrote: On 12/03/2013 03:28 PM, Jehan Pagès wrote: Hi, On Tue, Dec 3, 2013 at 4:26 PM, Patrick Shanahan ptilopt...@gmail.com wrote: [] fwiw this my experience (Intuos 5 touch M) as well. I figured I'd done something wrong in the settings. Well that makes 3 people, which is a pretty good sign there is actually something wrong somewhere. Are you also using GIMP 2.8.8, Brendan? Are you using Linux too? GIMP 2.8.2 Opensuse 12.3 Unfortunately, we just tried again and have not been able to reproduce. Can any of you reproduce the issue everytime? Or it just happened this one time? If you can reproduce, would you have any reproduction steps for me? Now that you mention it, no. I can't reproduce it every time. A: Just now I fired up GIMP, file-new-640x400 Selection and paintbrush worked for both mouse and touchpad. B: Open a jpg - now neither the selection tool nor the paintbrush tool works for the mouse. The pen works properly though. C: Switch back to the original new image tab: selection and paintbrush not working for mouse Close GIMP Open GIMP D: repeat A: mouse not working for _any_ tools I try (to be fair, I only tried selection and paintbrush for A-C earlier though). GIMP still responsive to mouse events though - eg menu, click tabs, quick mask and nav widgets hope that helps. Brendan ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] Histogramm -- values
On 12/02/2013 02:31 PM, Wolfgang Hugemann wrote: human spectral sensitivity has a pronounced peak in the green region, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luminosity_function. This is why any function deriving the perceived brightness or luminance from RGB, such as Rec709Luminance (0.212656 * R + 0.715158 * G + 0.072186 * B) weights the green far more than red and blue. This just reflects the spectral sensitivity of the human eye. The perceived brightness of purely red image at, say, 100 bit will be far less than that of a purely green image at 100 bit. Correspondingly, the latter should result in a leighter equivalent grey than the former. Gimp proceeds this way when converting a colour image to grey, as I have just tested: 100 R -- 21 G 100 G -- 72 G 100 B -- 7 G Gimp 2.8 uses the values from Poynton, which are the right values to use in a non-color-managed application when sending signals to a D65 Rec709 display device. The correct sRGB values for an ICC profile color-managed application are slightly different: R 22%, G 72%, and B 6%. See: http://ninedegreesbelow.com/photography/srgb-luminance.html This is very close to Rec709Luminance. Gimp 2.8 operates on the nonlinear sRGB RGB values, so it computes luma rather than luminance. See Poynton's ColorFAQ #9 and #11 (http://www.poynton.com/PDFs/ColorFAQ.pdf). Calculating true luminance requires that you first linearize the RGB values. Gimp 2.10 will use linear sRGB to calculate true luminance rather than luma. I just suggest that it should offer such a weighting in the histogramm for a colour image, i.e. the equivalent grey value at Gimp itself would calculate it. I concur 100%. I hope Gimp 2.10 includes exactly such a histogram, except personally I would prefer luminance (calculated using linear sRGB) rather than luma. Luminance is a mathematically expression of how we actually perceive relative light and dark, based on what you said above about how we perceive colors (very sensitive to green, less to red, even less to blue). Luma is mathematically easier to calculate than Luminance, but as far as I know that's its only virtue. Elle ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] problem with mouse and bamboo pad
* Jehan Pagès jehan.marmott...@gmail.com [12-03-13 05:27]: [...] Well that makes 3 people, which is a pretty good sign there is actually something wrong somewhere. Are you also using GIMP 2.8.8, Brendan? Are you using Linux too? Unfortunately, we just tried again and have not been able to reproduce. Can any of you reproduce the issue everytime? Or it just happened this one time? If you can reproduce, would you have any reproduction steps for me? I had same prob on 2.8.2. I can reproduce. Open gimp, open jpg or png with tablet and mouse both active and only tablet is functional. Disconnect tablet and mouse is functional. ps: using rpm packages from distro -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.orgopenSUSE Community Memberfacebook/ptilopteri http://wahoo.no-ip.orgPhoto Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535@ http://linuxcounter.net ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] Save v Export behaviour
Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2013 16:37:26 +1100 From: disposableem...@apps.opensourcelaw.biz To: gimp-user-list@gnome.org Subject: [Gimp-user] Save v Export behaviour More useful I think would be a dialog which identified for what I was about to lose (transparency, layers or whatever) in the target format, and then accepted my decision (and cleaned whatever dirty flag is set on edits) if I clicked ok. Harder to implement though I imagine. -- Telling you what you'd lose is precisely what 2.6 did. It was a useful trivia but it's not really relevant to 2.8's save/export model. Cleaning the 'dirty' flag after export isn't going to happen - there is a user-made GIMP plug-in that will do this for you (it adds an Export Clean type command to the File menu) but the core behavior isn't negotiable :( Tip: From 2.8 (.4 I think) onward will inform you if there are no changes since the last export; the warning message will inform you the file was recently exported so you can use this to make your own judgement about whether it's safe to close. There is however a GIMP plug-in that does an export and cleans the dirty flag, but the core behavior is not -- Stratadrake strata_ran...@hotmail.com Numbers may not lie, but neither do they tell the whole truth. ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] problem with mouse and bamboo pad
* Patrick Shanahan ptilopt...@gmail.com [12-03-13 09:27]: * Jehan Pagès jehan.marmott...@gmail.com [12-03-13 05:27]: [...] Well that makes 3 people, which is a pretty good sign there is actually something wrong somewhere. Are you also using GIMP 2.8.8, Brendan? Are you using Linux too? Unfortunately, we just tried again and have not been able to reproduce. Can any of you reproduce the issue everytime? Or it just happened this one time? If you can reproduce, would you have any reproduction steps for me? I had same prob on 2.8.2. I can reproduce. Open gimp, open jpg or png with tablet and mouse both active and only tablet is functional. Disconnect tablet and mouse is functional. ps: using rpm packages from distro UPDATE: After restarting X with both devices connected, I no longer have cited problem. Go fingure tks, for your indulgence. -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.orgopenSUSE Community Memberfacebook/ptilopteri http://wahoo.no-ip.orgPhoto Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535@ http://linuxcounter.net ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] problem with mouse and bamboo pad
Hi, On Wed, Dec 4, 2013 at 11:20 AM, Patrick Shanahan ptilopt...@gmail.com wrote: * Patrick Shanahan ptilopt...@gmail.com [12-03-13 09:27]: * Jehan Pagès jehan.marmott...@gmail.com [12-03-13 05:27]: [...] Well that makes 3 people, which is a pretty good sign there is actually something wrong somewhere. Are you also using GIMP 2.8.8, Brendan? Are you using Linux too? Unfortunately, we just tried again and have not been able to reproduce. Can any of you reproduce the issue everytime? Or it just happened this one time? If you can reproduce, would you have any reproduction steps for me? I had same prob on 2.8.2. I can reproduce. Open gimp, open jpg or png with tablet and mouse both active and only tablet is functional. Disconnect tablet and mouse is functional. ps: using rpm packages from distro UPDATE: After restarting X with both devices connected, I no longer have cited problem. Go fingure Well same here. I can't reproduce the issue at all. But since 3 people reported what seems like exactly the same issue, with same symptoms, I opened a bug report: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=719817 If any of you experience this issue again and manages to find a way to reproduce it every time, please complete the report. That would help to diagnose. Jehan tks, for your indulgence. -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.orgopenSUSE Community Memberfacebook/ptilopteri http://wahoo.no-ip.orgPhoto Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535@ http://linuxcounter.net ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] Save v Export behaviour
On 12/04/2013 05:26 AM, Richard wrote: Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2013 16:37:26 +1100 From: disposableem...@apps.opensourcelaw.biz To: gimp-user-list@gnome.org Subject: [Gimp-user] Save v Export behaviour [] Cleaning the 'dirty' flag after export isn't going to happen - there is a user-made GIMP plug-in that will do this for you (it adds an Export Clean type command to the File menu) but the core behavior isn't negotiable :( Maybe I'll look into the plug in. Save v export is an annoyance (when I'm in jpg editing mode), but not a life changing one. Tip: From 2.8 (.4 I think) onward will inform you if there are no changes since the last export; the warning message will inform you the file was recently exported so you can use this to make your own judgement about whether it's safe to close. There is however a GIMP plug-in that does an export and cleans the dirty flag, but the core behavior is not -- Stratadrake It's important to note here that the save vs export didn't actually help me when I lost my edits precisely because I had become habituated to ignoring the save warning (and the solution for me to the transparency issue is to export to png/gif rather than xcf btw). The save/export UI may need more thought. ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
[Gimp-user] Problem with ufraw and Sony ARW raw files
OS: Xubuntu 12.10 Gimp: 2.8.2 UFRaw: 0.18 I just purchased a new Sony Alpha 77 camera and am having problems with UFRaw and the conversion of the alpha raw (.arw) files. I can use UFRaw to open my older Minolta .mrw raw files and they look fine. However, all of the .arw files display extremely dark and with almost no color other than a redish sepia tone. This is the result that is also passed into Gimp. Something else that I notice: Any attempt to manually adjust the white balance results in a warning message: Image: ChannelMultipliers: Value 0.000 to small to truncate to 0.100. Selecting Auto WB results in something close to a BW image. These .arw files open properly in the Sony converter (on Windows) and also appear to display properly in the Shotwell viewer. Have other people using Alpha cameras seen this problem and is there a known solution? Thanks. P.S.: Has anyone tried running the Sony Image Data Converter program using Wine under Linux? ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] Save v Export behaviour
The save/export UI may need more thought. As a Windows user, I am also annoyed by Gimp's behaviour, it's strange. The default behaviour of any Windows program is to save a document in the format it was opened in or possibly suggest you to convert it to a more suitable one, i.e. programs behave the other round, compared to Gimp. So maybe the expected behaviour also depends on the OS you use. But even under Windows, nobody would expect that a dedicted export routine would clean the dirty flag. Wolfgang Hugemann ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
