Re: [Gluster-users] [Gluster-devel] How to search frequently asked questions in gluster mailing lists.

2015-04-17 Thread Raghavendra Talur
On Fri, Apr 17, 2015 at 11:53 PM, Justin Clift  wrote:

> On 17 Apr 2015, at 19:08, Raghavendra Talur 
> wrote:
> 
> > I had created a custom Google search for it once  but never went back to
> finish tweaking it.  Here is the link
> >
> https://cse.google.co.in:443/cse/publicurl?cx=011584940093792490158:gn39i94_4la
>
> Tried that here... and it doesn't seem to work for me.
>
> It gives a page I can type in a search term (eg "glusterd"),
> but the next page says "Loading" and never comes back. :(
>
> Tried in Opera (latest release) on OSX 10.9.
>

Use the second search box, the one below "Google search for Gluster".
Works for me on both Chrome and Firefox on Android and Fedora 21.
Please try again and let me know :)


>
> Any ideas?
>
> + Justin
>
> --
> GlusterFS - http://www.gluster.org
>
> An open source, distributed file system scaling to several
> petabytes, and handling thousands of clients.
>
> My personal twitter: twitter.com/realjustinclift
>
>


-- 
*Raghavendra Talur *
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Re: [Gluster-users] Unable to make HA work; mounts hang on remote node reboot

2015-04-17 Thread CJ Baar
Thanks, Corey. At the moment I only have two nodes to play with. If I am able 
to add third, would you recommend using “replicate 3” on the volume, or is that 
overkill?
I understand what you mean with the quorum, but for my purposes, it would be 
nice to be able to say “you may not be able to write during a node failure, but 
you can still read.”
—CJ

> On Apr 17, 2015, at 6:18 AM, Corey Kovacs  wrote:
> 
> Typically you need to meet a quorum requirement to run just about any 
> cluster.  By definition,  two nodes doesn't make a good cluster. A third node 
> would let you start with just two since that would allow you to meet quorum. 
> Can you add a third node to at least test?
> 
> Corey
> 
> On Apr 16, 2015 6:52 PM, "CJ Baar" mailto:g...@ffisys.com>> 
> wrote:
> I appreciate the info. I have tried adjust the ping-timeout setting, and it 
> has seems to have no effect. The whole system hangs for 45+ seconds, which is 
> about what it takes the second node to reboot, no matter what the value of 
> ping-timeout is.  The output of the mnt-log is below.  It shows the adjust 
> value I am currently testing (30s), but the system still hangs for longer 
> than that.
> 
> Also, I have realized that the problem is deeper than I originally thought.  
> It’s not just the mount that is hanging when a node reboots… it appears to be 
> the entire system.  I cannot use my SSH connection, no matter where I am in 
> the system, and services such as httpd become unresponsive.  I can ping the 
> “surviving” system, but other than that it appears pretty unusable.  This is 
> a major drawback to using gluster.  I can’t afford to lost two entire systems 
> if one dies.
> 
> [2015-04-16 22:59:21.281365] C 
> [rpc-clnt-ping.c:109:rpc_clnt_ping_timer_expired] 0-common-client-0: server 
> 172.31.64.200:49152  has not responded in the 
> last 30 seconds, disconnecting.
> [2015-04-16 22:59:21.281560] E [rpc-clnt.c:362:saved_frames_unwind] (--> 
> /usr/lib64/libglusterfs.so.0(_gf_log_callingfn+0x1e0)[0x7fce96450550] (--> 
> /usr/lib64/libgfrpc.so.0(saved_frames_unwind+0x1e7)[0x7fce96225787] (--> 
> /usr/lib64/libgfrpc.so.0(saved_frames_destroy+0xe)[0x7fce9622589e] (--> 
> /usr/lib64/libgfrpc.so.0(rpc_clnt_connection_cleanup+0x91)[0x7fce96225951] 
> (--> /usr/lib64/libgfrpc.so.0(rpc_clnt_notify+0x15f)[0x7fce96225f1f] ) 
> 0-common-client-0: forced unwinding frame type(GlusterFS 3.3) op(LOOKUP(27)) 
> called at 2015-04-16 22:58:45.830962 (xid=0x6d)
> [2015-04-16 22:59:21.281588] W [client-rpc-fops.c:2766:client3_3_lookup_cbk] 
> 0-common-client-0: remote operation failed: Transport endpoint is not 
> connected. Path: / (----0001)
> [2015-04-16 22:59:21.281788] E [rpc-clnt.c:362:saved_frames_unwind] (--> 
> /usr/lib64/libglusterfs.so.0(_gf_log_callingfn+0x1e0)[0x7fce96450550] (--> 
> /usr/lib64/libgfrpc.so.0(saved_frames_unwind+0x1e7)[0x7fce96225787] (--> 
> /usr/lib64/libgfrpc.so.0(saved_frames_destroy+0xe)[0x7fce9622589e] (--> 
> /usr/lib64/libgfrpc.so.0(rpc_clnt_connection_cleanup+0x91)[0x7fce96225951] 
> (--> /usr/lib64/libgfrpc.so.0(rpc_clnt_notify+0x15f)[0x7fce96225f1f] ) 
> 0-common-client-0: forced unwinding frame type(GF-DUMP) op(NULL(2)) called at 
> 2015-04-16 22:58:51.277528 (xid=0x6e)
> [2015-04-16 22:59:21.281806] W [rpc-clnt-ping.c:154:rpc_clnt_ping_cbk] 
> 0-common-client-0: socket disconnected
> [2015-04-16 22:59:21.281816] I [client.c:2215:client_rpc_notify] 
> 0-common-client-0: disconnected from common-client-0. Client process will 
> keep trying to connect to glusterd until brick's port is available
> [2015-04-16 22:59:21.283637] I [socket.c:3292:socket_submit_request] 
> 0-common-client-0: not connected (priv->connected = 0)
> [2015-04-16 22:59:21.283663] W [rpc-clnt.c:1562:rpc_clnt_submit] 
> 0-common-client-0: failed to submit rpc-request (XID: 0x6f Program: GlusterFS 
> 3.3, ProgVers: 330, Proc: 27) to rpc-transport (common-client-0)
> [2015-04-16 22:59:21.283674] W [client-rpc-fops.c:2766:client3_3_lookup_cbk] 
> 0-common-client-0: remote operation failed: Transport endpoint is not 
> connected. Path: /src (63fc077b-869d-4928-8819-a79cc5c5ffa6)
> [2015-04-16 22:59:21.284219] W [client-rpc-fops.c:2766:client3_3_lookup_cbk] 
> 0-common-client-0: remote operation failed: Transport endpoint is not 
> connected. Path: (null) (----)
> [2015-04-16 22:59:52.322952] E 
> [client-handshake.c:1496:client_query_portmap_cbk] 0-common-client-0: failed 
> to get the port number for [root@cfm-c glusterfs]#
> 
> 
> —CJ

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Re: [Gluster-users] [Gluster-devel] How to search frequently asked questions in gluster mailing lists.

2015-04-17 Thread Justin Clift
On 17 Apr 2015, at 19:08, Raghavendra Talur  wrote:

> I had created a custom Google search for it once  but never went back to 
> finish tweaking it.  Here is the link 
> https://cse.google.co.in:443/cse/publicurl?cx=011584940093792490158:gn39i94_4la

Tried that here... and it doesn't seem to work for me.

It gives a page I can type in a search term (eg "glusterd"),
but the next page says "Loading" and never comes back. :(

Tried in Opera (latest release) on OSX 10.9.

Any ideas?

+ Justin

--
GlusterFS - http://www.gluster.org

An open source, distributed file system scaling to several
petabytes, and handling thousands of clients.

My personal twitter: twitter.com/realjustinclift

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[Gluster-users] How to search frequently asked questions in gluster mailing lists.

2015-04-17 Thread Raghavendra Talur
On Apr 17, 2015 17:47, "Niels de Vos"  wrote:
>
> On Fri, Apr 17, 2015 at 09:48:53AM +, Jesper Led Lauridsen TS
Infra server wrote:
> > > On 04/17/2015 11:56 AM, Vijay Bellur wrote:
> > > > Hi All,
> > > >
> > > > Since the volume of posts on our mailing lists seems to be steadily
> > > > increasing, I wonder if we should evolve guidelines for posting in
> > > the
> > > > lists along the lines of the Fedora one [1]. It could be useful for
> > > > new entrants in the community to understand our mailing list
> > > etiquette.
> > > >
> > > > If we think it is a good idea to evolve this artifact and don't find
> > > > anything in the fedora guidelines objectionable, I would be happy to
> > > > port it for Gluster :).
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Vijay
> > > >
> > > > [1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
> > >
> > > +1. Specially I agree with Fedora guideline about "Top posting ". It
is
> > > really inconvenient to go through a long mail thread when people do
> > > "Top posting" [2].
> > >
> > > Fedora mailing list guidelines has link to following pdf [1]. It
> > > actually covers most of the things in a precise way. Just putting it
> > > here in case you missed it in the original wiki page.
> > >
> > > [1]
> > > http://www.shakthimaan.com/downloads/glv/presentations/mailing-list-
> > > etiquette.pdf
> > > [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Top-posting
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Lala
> >
> > > Sendt: 17. april 2015 08:59
> >
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > Good suggestion.
> >
> > Another suggestion. Off topic - sorry. Some of the question are the
> > same or similar which also increase the amount of mails. Maybe it just
> > me, but I failed to find a way to search the archives
> > "http://www.gluster.org/pipermail/gluster-users/"; for answers or
> > previous posts on the same topic. A way to search the archives could
> > also decrease the amount.

I had created a custom Google search for it once  but never went back to
finish tweaking it.  Here is the link
https://cse.google.co.in:443/cse/publicurl?cx=011584940093792490158:gn39i94_4la

Apart from mailing list archives,  it also searches through irc logs and
our gluster.org wiki.

If this does seem like a good I idea I will
Make it better.

>
> I tend to use gmane.org for searching. The archives are available there
> too:
>
> http://news.gmane.org/gmane.comp.file-systems.gluster.user
>
> HTH,
> Niels
>
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[Gluster-users] Problem listing files on geo-replicated volume after upgrade to 3.4.6

2015-04-17 Thread Dietmar Putz

Hello all,

we have a problem on a geo-replicated volume after upgrade from 
glusterfs 3.3.2 to 3.4.6 on ubuntu 12.04.5 lts.
for e.g. a 'ls -l' on the mounted geo-replicated volume does not show 
the entire content while the same command on the underlying bricks shows 
the entire content.


the events in chronological order..:

we are running a 6 node distributed replicated Volume (vol1) which is 
geo-replicated to a 4 node distributed replicated Volume (vol2).
disk space on vol2 becomes insufficient so we needed to add two further 
nodes.

vol1 and vol2 is running on ubuntu 12.04 lts / glusterfs 3.3.2
we stopped the geo-replication, stopped the vol2 and updated the nodes 
of vol2 to the latest ubuntu 12.04.5 release (dist-upgrade) and to 
glusterfs 3.4.6. all gluster-clients which make use of vol2 were also 
updated from glusterfs-client 3.3.2 to 3.4.6.
then we added two further bricks to vol2 with the same software level 
(ubuntu 12.04.5 lts,gfs 3.4.6) like the first four nodes and started the 
volume vol2 again.
afterwards we started a rebalance process on vol2 and the 
geo-replication on the master-node of vol1. a check-script on 
geo-replication master is copying/deleting a testfile to vol1 in 
dependence of the existence of that file on vol2. everything seems to be 
ok so far...


after the rebalance process was finished (without errors) we observed an 
abnormality on vol2...the data on vol2 is somehow unequal 
distributed...the first two pairs shows a brick-usage of about 80% while 
the last added pair shows a brick-usage of about 50%. so we restarted 
the rebalance process twice but nothing changed...
however, more critical than that is the fact that since update and 
expansion of vol2 we cannot see/access all files by default on the 
mounted vol2 while the files are visible in their brick-directories...


example 1:

vol1 contains 446 files/directories, for e.g. directory /sdn/1051
vol1 is mounted to /sdn :
[ 15:54:28 ] - root@vol1  /sdn $ls -l | wc -l
446
[ 15:55:06 ] - root@vol1  /sdn $ls -l | grep 1051
drwxrwxrwx  5  1007  1013   12288 Jan 22 07:42 1051
[ 15:55:46 ] - root@vol1  /sdn $du -ks 1051
55881291051
[ 15:56:03 ] - root@vol1  /sdn $

vol2 contains 304 files/directoris, but 1051 is not listed. when i run a 
'du -ks /sdn/1051' or a 'ls -l /sdn/1051' on vol2 the directory becomes 
visible...

vol2 is mounted to /sdn :
[ 15:54:35 ] - root@vol2  /sdn $ls | wc -l
304
[ 15:56:19 ] - root@vol2  /sdn $ls -l | grep 1051
[ 15:56:28 ] - root@vol2  /sdn $du -ks 1051
55880011051
[ 15:56:43 ] - root@vol2  /sdn $ls -l | grep 1051
drwxrwxrwx  5  1007  1013   8255 Apr 17 15:56 1051
[ 15:56:59 ] - root@vol2  /sdn $ls | wc -l
305

example 2:
directory 2098 is visible on the brick but not on the gluster-volume.
after listing the named-directory it is visible on the gluster-volume again.
[ 16:11:00 ] - root@vol2  /sdn $ls | grep 2098
[ 16:12:21 ] - root@vol2  /sdn $ls -l /gluster-export/ | grep 2098
drwxrwxrwx  4  1015  1013   4096 Jan 18 03:07 2098

[ 16:12:28 ] - root@vol2  /sdn $ls -l /sdn/2098
...
[ 16:13:12 ] - root@vol2  /sdn $ls -l | grep 2098
drwxrwxrwx  4  1015  1013   8237 Apr 17 16:13 2098
[ 16:13:27 ] - root@vol2  /sdn $
[ 16:13:27 ] - root@vol2  /sdn $ls | wc -l
306

i did not found helpful hints in the gluster-logs, currently i'm 
frequently faced with following messages, but the missing directories on 
vol2 are not mentioned :


vol2 :
 $tail -f sdn.log
[2015-04-17 14:00:14.816730] I 
[dht-layout.c:726:dht_layout_dir_mismatch] 1-aut-wien-01-dht: /1011 - 
disk layout missing
[2015-04-17 14:00:14.816745] I [dht-common.c:638:dht_revalidate_cbk] 
1-aut-wien-01-dht: mismatching layouts for /1011
[2015-04-17 14:00:14.817590] I 
[dht-layout.c:726:dht_layout_dir_mismatch] 1-aut-wien-01-dht: /1005 - 
disk layout missing
[2015-04-17 14:00:14.817602] I [dht-common.c:638:dht_revalidate_cbk] 
1-aut-wien-01-dht: mismatching layouts for /1005


vol 1 is slightly smaller than vol2. all nodes are using the same 
disk-configuration and all bricks are xfs-formatted.

df -m :
vol1:/vol1  57217563 39230421  17987143   69% /sdn
vol2:/vol2  57217563 40399541  16818023  71% /sdn

currently i'm confused because i don't know the reason for this behaviour...
i guess it was not a good idea to update the geo-replication slave to 
3.4.6 while the master is still running 3.3.2, but I'm not sure.
possibly there is an issue with 3.4.6 itself and geo-replication does 
not have any influence on that.

for the first time i stopped the geo-replication.
can somebody point me to the cause or has helpful hints what to do next...?

best regards
dietmar

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[Gluster-users] Self healing not working (how to monitor)

2015-04-17 Thread Arne Brys
Hello,

We are using gluster replication for a high availability setup using 2
servers (using gluster 3.5).
Al has been running for a couple months now without any issues.

I now wanted to replace one of the servers and am following the following
documentation.
http://www.gluster.org/community/documentation/index.php/Gluster_3.4:_Brick_Restoration_-_Replace_Crashed_Server
Everything seems te be up and running however the self healing seems to be
either stuck or is not happening at all.

When running "gluster volume heal volume_name full" the output shows that
it was started correctly
Running "gluster volume heal volume_name info" shows something like

-

Brick node_1:/gluster-data/volume_name_brick/
Number of entries: 0

Brick node_2:/gluster-data/volume_name_brick/



.

-
Width node_1 being the new one and a huge list of things to heal for node 2.
The command actually seems tho hang after some.

It also seams that there is no actual healing taking place except when I
access the files from the client side.

Is there any way I can monitor this better, what logs can I check to see of
healing is working properly or not at all.


Kind regards,
Arne Brys
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Re: [Gluster-users] [Gluster-devel] Guidelines for posting in our mailing lists

2015-04-17 Thread Niels de Vos
On Fri, Apr 17, 2015 at 09:48:53AM +, Jesper Led Lauridsen TS Infra 
server wrote:
> > On 04/17/2015 11:56 AM, Vijay Bellur wrote:
> > > Hi All,
> > >
> > > Since the volume of posts on our mailing lists seems to be steadily
> > > increasing, I wonder if we should evolve guidelines for posting in
> > the
> > > lists along the lines of the Fedora one [1]. It could be useful for
> > > new entrants in the community to understand our mailing list
> > etiquette.
> > >
> > > If we think it is a good idea to evolve this artifact and don't find
> > > anything in the fedora guidelines objectionable, I would be happy to
> > > port it for Gluster :).
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Vijay
> > >
> > > [1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
> > 
> > +1. Specially I agree with Fedora guideline about "Top posting ". It is
> > really inconvenient to go through a long mail thread when people do
> > "Top posting" [2].
> > 
> > Fedora mailing list guidelines has link to following pdf [1]. It
> > actually covers most of the things in a precise way. Just putting it
> > here in case you missed it in the original wiki page.
> > 
> > [1]
> > http://www.shakthimaan.com/downloads/glv/presentations/mailing-list-
> > etiquette.pdf
> > [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Top-posting
> > 
> > Thanks,
> > Lala
> 
> > Sendt: 17. april 2015 08:59
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Good suggestion. 
> 
> Another suggestion. Off topic - sorry. Some of the question are the
> same or similar which also increase the amount of mails. Maybe it just
> me, but I failed to find a way to search the archives
> "http://www.gluster.org/pipermail/gluster-users/"; for answers or
> previous posts on the same topic. A way to search the archives could
> also decrease the amount.

I tend to use gmane.org for searching. The archives are available there
too:

http://news.gmane.org/gmane.comp.file-systems.gluster.user

HTH,
Niels


pgp0lFRuESAbQ.pgp
Description: PGP signature
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Re: [Gluster-users] Guidelines for posting in our mailing lists

2015-04-17 Thread Jesper Led Lauridsen TS Infra server
> On 04/17/2015 11:56 AM, Vijay Bellur wrote:
> > Hi All,
> >
> > Since the volume of posts on our mailing lists seems to be steadily
> > increasing, I wonder if we should evolve guidelines for posting in
> the
> > lists along the lines of the Fedora one [1]. It could be useful for
> > new entrants in the community to understand our mailing list
> etiquette.
> >
> > If we think it is a good idea to evolve this artifact and don't find
> > anything in the fedora guidelines objectionable, I would be happy to
> > port it for Gluster :).
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Vijay
> >
> > [1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
> 
> +1. Specially I agree with Fedora guideline about "Top posting ". It is
> really inconvenient to go through a long mail thread when people do
> "Top posting" [2].
> 
> Fedora mailing list guidelines has link to following pdf [1]. It
> actually covers most of the things in a precise way. Just putting it
> here in case you missed it in the original wiki page.
> 
> [1]
> http://www.shakthimaan.com/downloads/glv/presentations/mailing-list-
> etiquette.pdf
> [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Top-posting
> 
> Thanks,
> Lala

> Sendt: 17. april 2015 08:59


Hi,

Good suggestion. 

Another suggestion. Off topic - sorry. Some of the question are the same or 
similar which also increase the amount of mails. Maybe it just me, but I failed 
to find a way to search the archives 
"http://www.gluster.org/pipermail/gluster-users/"; for answers or previous posts 
on the same topic. A way to search the archives could also decrease the amount.

Thanks
Jesper






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Re: [Gluster-users] [Gluster-devel] Guidelines for posting in our mailing lists

2015-04-17 Thread Sankarshan Mukhopadhyay
On Fri, Apr 17, 2015 at 11:56 AM, Vijay Bellur  wrote:
> I wonder if we should evolve guidelines for posting in the lists along the
> lines of the Fedora one [1]. It could be useful for new entrants in the
> community to understand our mailing list etiquette.

It would be good to have a set of guidelines which enable the new
participants find their way around the community and learn about
interactions.


-- 
sankarshan mukhopadhyay

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Re: [Gluster-users] tiering demo Thursday

2015-04-17 Thread Vijay Bellur

On 04/16/2015 07:40 PM, Dan Lambright wrote:

Hello folks,

Our hangout session has concluded [1], and I expect we will do another next 
month from the US which hopefully will have better interactivity.

In the meantime, below [2] is the "gluster volume info" display we are 
considering for tiered volumes. Let us know any feedback on how it looks.

[1]
goo.gl/auENCG

[2]
Proposal for gluster v info for the tier case:

Volume Name: t
Type: Tier
Volume ID: 320d4795-4eae-4d83-8e55-1681813c8549
Status: Created
Number of Bricks: 3 x 2 = 6
Transport-type: tcp
Bricks:

hot
Number of Bricks: 3 x 2 = 6
Type: Distribute Replicate
Brick1: gprfs018:/home/t6
Brick2: gprfs018:/home/t5

cold
Type: Distributed Replicate
Number of Bricks: 3 x 2 = 6
Brick3: gprfs018:/home/t1
Brick4: gprfs018:/home/t2
Brick5: gprfs018:/home/t3
Brick6: gprfs018:/home/t4



I like the overall idea. The number of bricks value in each tier seem to 
be incorrect in the proposal. When we start supporting different 
transport types across hot and cold tiers, we can display the transport 
type per tier too.


-Vijay
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Re: [Gluster-users] Guidelines for posting in our mailing lists

2015-04-17 Thread Lalatendu Mohanty

On 04/17/2015 12:25 PM, Ira Cooper wrote:

Do we have a problem Or is this a solution looking for a problem?

I'd rather have an overall code of conduct... of which e-mail correspondence
is a small part. :)


IMO email is one of the most important medium through which we conduct 
ourself in the community and from communication point or view it plays 
the most important role.


I think it is a good idea to have mailing list guidelines (whatever we 
agree upon) . Specially when the community is distributed and have lots 
of non native English speakers.

I'll use Debian's an example:

https://www.debian.org/code_of_conduct
https://www.debian.org/MailingLists/#codeofconduct


I have gone through it. It definitely addresses the over all idea. 
However I feel from Gluster point of view, we need more specific 
guidelines. One of the reason is Gluster is not an old/mature community  
as compared to Debian.

In addition, in a quick scan of the Fedora document, I find it feels stiff
and uninviting.  Compare it to the Debian docs and you'll see what I mean.

Not that either community will tolerate you violating their norms.  It is
merely how they express that sentiment.

My thoughts,

-Ira

- Original Message -

Hi All,

Since the volume of posts on our mailing lists seems to be steadily
increasing, I wonder if we should evolve guidelines for posting in the
lists along the lines of the Fedora one [1]. It could be useful for new
entrants in the community to understand our mailing list etiquette.

If we think it is a good idea to evolve this artifact and don't find
anything in the fedora guidelines objectionable, I would be happy to
port it for Gluster :).

Thanks,
Vijay

[1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
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Re: [Gluster-users] Guidelines for posting in our mailing lists

2015-04-17 Thread Lalatendu Mohanty

On 04/17/2015 11:56 AM, Vijay Bellur wrote:

Hi All,

Since the volume of posts on our mailing lists seems to be steadily 
increasing, I wonder if we should evolve guidelines for posting in the 
lists along the lines of the Fedora one [1]. It could be useful for 
new entrants in the community to understand our mailing list etiquette.


If we think it is a good idea to evolve this artifact and don't find 
anything in the fedora guidelines objectionable, I would be happy to 
port it for Gluster :).


Thanks,
Vijay

[1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines


+1. Specially I agree with Fedora guideline about "Top posting ". It is 
really inconvenient to go through a long mail thread when people do "Top 
posting" [2].


Fedora mailing list guidelines has link to following pdf [1]. It 
actually covers most of the things in a precise way. Just putting it 
here in case you missed it in the original wiki page.


[1] 
http://www.shakthimaan.com/downloads/glv/presentations/mailing-list-etiquette.pdf

[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Top-posting

Thanks,
Lala
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