Re: [gmx-users] periodic boundary condition

2006-09-19 Thread Cherry Y. Yates
Dear David, I tried to use x2top, but it ended up with the following error:0: GROMOS96 43a1 force field 1: GROMOS96 43b1 vacuum force field2: GROMOS96 43a2 force field (improved alkane dihedrals)3: GROMOS96 45a3 force field (Schuler JCC 2001 22 1205)4: GROMOS96 53a5 force field (JCC 2004 vol 25 pag 1656) 5: GROMOS96 53a6 force field (JCC 2004 vol 25 pag 1656) 6: OPLS-AA/L all-atom force field (2001 aminoacid dihedrals)7: [DEPRECATED] Gromacs force field (see manual)8: [DEPRECATED] Gromacs force field with hydrogens for NMR9: Encad all-atom force field, using scaled-down vacuum charges10: Encad all-atom force field, using full solvent charges 0Looking whether force field file ffG43a1.rtp existsOpening library file /share/apps/gromacs-3.3/share/gromacs/top/ffG43a1.rtpGenerating bonds from distances...Opening library file
 /share/apps/gromacs-3.3/share/gromacs/top/ffG43a1.atpThere are 49 type to mass translationsatom 438---Program x2top, VERSION 3.3Source code file: futil.c, line: 537Fatal error:Library file ffG43a1.n2t not found in current dir nor in default directories.(You can set the directories to search with the GMXLIB path variable)Could you tell me what is wrong? Many thanks!!!CherryDavid van der Spoel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Cherry Y. Yates wrote: Dear gromacs developers and users,  I am calculating a nanotube which has periodic boundary condition along  one direction. I wonder how to make an itp file for this system. The  difficulty lies in describing the bond between two end atoms, e.g., two
  atoms are bonded in an infinite length system, but are located on the  bottom and top of a unit cell.use x2topand in your mdp file use pbc=full  Thanks,  Cherry   Get your email and more, right on the new Yahoo.com   ___ gmx-users mailing listgmx-users@gromacs.org http://www.gromacs.org/mailman/listinfo/gmx-users Please don't post (un)subscribe requests to the list. Use the  www interface or send it to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Can't post? Read http://www.gromacs.org/mailing_lists/users.php--
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[gmx-users] make_hole vs. genconf

2006-09-19 Thread Arneh Babakhani

Dear GMX Users,


I'd like to build some lipids around a peptide.  Can I do so using 
genconf?  (I know genconf can be used to build a membrane.  I'm asking 
if genconf can be used to build a membrane around a solute, like a 
transmembrane protein?)



I'm also aware of the make_hole tool.  My question here is:  Does 
make_hole create a hole of specified dimensions and orientation, 
according to the solute coordinates?  And can you specify exactly where 
in the membrane you want the whole?



So basically what I'm asking is:  If you want to make a starting 
structure (or several structures) with the solute (a peptide) in a 
specific part of the membrane, is it better to set the desired 
coordinates of the peptide first and then build a membrane around it?  
Or, is it wiser to start with an equilibrated membrane and use make_hole 
to create your hole first at the desired coordinates, then insert the 
peptide?



Thanks,

Arneh
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[gmx-users] Re: velocities (gmx-users Digest, Vol 29, Issue 60)

2006-09-19 Thread Prasad Gajula
Thanks for your answer. I hope I did not catch your points well.

So, you mean I can  use 'gen_vel = no'  for the md runs (MD without
position restraints, after the completion of PR run with position
restarints)
my procedure as follows..

EM --- PR(300ps @ 300K)  MD (30ps @ 80K. no postion restraints)---
MD (30 ps @ 100K, no postion restraints ) --- MD (30 ps @ 200K, no
postion restraints)  relaxation MD(250ps @ 300K, no postion
restraints)  final MD (300K, no postion restraints)

After Energy minimization, I apply position restarints and generate new
velocities at 300K. I take the output of PR run as input to the next MD
run which started at 80K ( no position restraints from now). And also from
here onwards i dont generate any new velocities, but with the velocities 
which are written in the previous runs.
Please let me know if iam correct or not.
Thanks again
Gajula
 Dear Gromacs Users,

 I am getting different results for simulations with  gen_vel=yes  and
 gen_vel= no.

This is expected. No two simulations will be the same unless you run
then on the same hardware with exactly the same inputs. gen_vel requires
the use of a random number seed. What you want to do, is after
equilibration, be sampling from the correct ensemble.

 I have generated velocities only for PR MD at 300K. after that I set '
 gen_vel= no ' in mdp file.  After the position restrained MD , I slowly
 increased the temparature from 80K , 100K , 200K and last 300K. (with
 'gen_vel=no' for all MD)
 Is it correct? Because I read both 'yes' and 'no' as possibilites in some
 references. Iam bit confused which to use for exact simulations.

Personally, I don't think the practice of velocity reassignment in
incremental heating while using position restraints is demonstrably
better than not using reassignment in incremental heating.

Mark

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[gmx-users] Re:velocities

2006-09-19 Thread Prasad Gajula
Thanks for your answer. I hope I did not catch your points well.

So, you mean I can  use 'gen_vel = no'  for the md runs (MD without position
restraints, after the completion of PR run with position restarints)
my procedure as follows..

EM --- PR(300ps @ 300K)  MD (30ps @ 80K. no postion restraints)--- MD
(30 ps @ 100K, no postion restraints ) --- MD (30 ps @ 200K, no postion
restraints)  relaxation MD(250ps @ 300K, no postion restraints) 
final MD (300K, no postion restraints)

After Energy minimization, I apply position restarints and generate new
velocities at 300K.
I take the output of PR run as input to the next MD run which started at 80K
( no position restraints from now). And also from here onwards i dont
generate any new velocities, but with the velocities  which are written in
the previous runs.
Looking forward for your reply.

Please let me know
Thanks again
Gajula

 Dear Gromacs Users,

 I am getting different results for simulations with  gen_vel=yes  and
 gen_vel= no.

This is expected. No two simulations will be the same unless you run
then on the same hardware with exactly the same inputs. gen_vel requires
the use of a random number seed. What you want to do, is after
equilibration, be sampling from the correct ensemble.

 I have generated velocities only for PR MD at 300K. after that I set '
 gen_vel= no ' in mdp file.  After the position restrained MD , I slowly
 increased the temparature from 80K , 100K , 200K and last 300K. (with
 'gen_vel=no' for all MD)
 Is it correct? Because I read both 'yes' and 'no' as possibilites in some
 references. Iam bit confused which to use for exact simulations.

Personally, I don't think the practice of velocity reassignment in
incremental heating while using position restraints is demonstrably
better than not using reassignment in incremental heating.

Mark


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Re: [gmx-users] single and double

2006-09-19 Thread Stéphane Téletchéa

[EMAIL PROTECTED] a écrit :
My system here is an opls-aa protein in a POPE/DMPE membrane with tip4p 
waters.


Prior to adding counterions, grompp yields a net charge of -1.73 and 
grompp_d yields -2.0. Once I have added counterions, both single and 
double precision don't give me a warning about a net charge on the 
system. Either system runs fine for many ns and they don't crash.


1. Is the net charge really as close to 0.0 in the single precision 
version as it is in the double, or just close enough that there is no 
warning issued?


The net charge is really close to zero, the difference may rely on 
hardware roundoff, and on the topology limits (charge precision on each 
atom/group). This is why you see the difference between single and 
double precision.



2. If single is farther from 0.0, is this a problem?


It depends :-)
I assume you're using PME, in this case, the system will be scaled to 0 
and for you run, that won't be a problem (since spreading a 1e-4 
charges among 100 000 atoms won't interfere much with their net charge 
...) and the roundoff errors due to the calculations themselves are 
bigger than this single vs double difference.


3. Why does single run faster anyway? I though intel processors treated 
them the exact same way in terms of the operations that needed to be 
carried out?


It depends of the hardware you're talking about.

On single precision systems, the run would run at the same speed on 32 
bits architecture and on 64 bits architectures.
On double precision systems, the same run will take twice the time on 32 
bits than on 64bits (roughly).


Globally, single precision == 32bits, double precision == 64bits.

That means on single precision run on 32bits machines will be done in 
the same time that double precision on 64bits (roughly again).


This is more or less true with gromacs since processors have more than 
two types of calculation units (thinkk of sse, sse2, 3Dnowext, ...) and 
gromacs is able to take most of them (if not all) into account via 
specialized routines, but that the goal.



Thanks.
Chris.


Cheers,

Stéphane

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78352 Jouy-en-Josas cedex, France Fax : (33) 134 652 901
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Re: [gmx-users] protein unstable for parallel job while stable for serial one

2006-09-19 Thread Tsjerk Wassenaar

Hi Akansha,

Either you need to simulate both systems until you have full
convergence before you can make conclusions regarding the (dis)similar
behaviour or you have to test consistently, running replicate
simulations both on one processor and on 16.

That being said, it is very well possible that even between two
simulations of the same system under completely identical conditions,
except for the starting velocities and possibly the exact starting
structure, you will get two completely different results. If you're
protein can undergo a conformational change it's basically a matter of
chance whether you observe it or not.

Of course, I don't say it is not related to your simulation being
distributed over multiple processors. It may be, but in order to
exclude other effects you have to repeat simulations and/or work
through the code very carefully. Which version of Gromacs did you use?

Hope it helps,

Tsjerk
On 9/18/06, Akansha Saxena [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Hello

Has anybody seen a protein becoming unstable on
parallel nodes while remaining stable on single node?

I am running a NPT molecular dynamics simulation. The
system contains a protein with 141 residues surrounded
by water making the total to 32714 atoms. I ran this
simulation at two places for 8ns. One as a serial job
and the other as a parallel job on 16 nodes.

The protein remains stable all through for the serial
job but for parallel job the protein  opens up after
3ns of simulation and is never stable after that.

All other conditions are exactly the same. Any help
would be highly appreciated.

Akansha



Akansha Saxena
Graduate Student
Department of Biomedical Engineering
Washington University in St Louis

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--
Tsjerk A. Wassenaar, Ph.D.
Groningen Biomolecular Sciences and Biotechnology Institute (GBB)
Dept. of Biophysical Chemistry
University of Groningen
Nijenborgh 4
9747AG Groningen, The Netherlands
+31 50 363 4336
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Re: [gmx-users] Re: protein unstable for parallel job while stable for serial one

2006-09-19 Thread Mark Abraham

Akansha Saxena wrote:

This is what I was doing. I was running exactly
identical simulations on 1 processor and on 16
processors. 
By identical i mean - same starting structure,

velocities taken from the same *.trr file. The only
difference was the number of nodes for the production
run. 


Well this sounds sensible, so long as you weren't doing an erroneous 
gen_vel = yes.



But I give the same velocities and use exactly same
starting structure for both simulations. Basically I
use the same files for both cases. Only difference
lying in the number of processors. 
I would think that with same intial conditions the
calculations should be identical for both cases.   


Real-world floating point computations are not algebraic computations. 
You can divide a number n by x, and add the result to itself x times, 
and a test for equality against n will fail, for sufficiently 
pathological n and x. The order in which summation occurs when you have 
a mixture of large and small numbers can also affect the result through 
accumulated round-off errors. A parallel computation will effectively be 
doing this. The fact this happens is not actually a problem - the 
perturbation is not so large you are sampling a different ensemble. You 
just don't have algebraic reproducibility.


Mark
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[gmx-users] Co-variance Analysis

2006-09-19 Thread N.Goga

Hi Tsjerk,

 thank you for your help for the generation of the files. 
I found them. Please can you help me with some litle bit 
more information.


 1) How many atoms did you used ?(it seems 1894 looking 
to the nr. of lines of the masses)
 2) Are just normal masses or did you compute 
(mass_particle)^(1/2)
 3) How many frames of the positions the particles are 
used?
 4) How many eigenvalues in average are needed (the order 
of magnitude) for such a co-variance computation?


 Thank you in advance for your answer.

 Best regards
  Nicu

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Re: [gmx-users] make_hole vs. genconf

2006-09-19 Thread Alan Dodd

 
  I'm also aware of the make_hole tool.  My question
 here is:  Does  
  make_hole create a hole of specified dimensions
 and orientation,  
  according to the solute coordinates?  And can you
 specify exactly  
  where in the membrane you want the whole?
 
 Make_hole doesn't actually make a hole. You need to
 make the  
 premilinary hole yourself. 



Not true, I've made a hole using make_hole.  Manually
removing central lipids, and using make_hole to finess
the rim of the hole is probably more computationally
efficient, but make_hole is perfectly capable of doing
what the name says (and less labor intensive).

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[gmx-users] umbrella sampling pull.pdo output

2006-09-19 Thread Manohar Murthi
hi everyone

i'm trying to calculate the free energy of binding of
a guest and host in solution by umbrella sampling.

my pull groups consist of individual atoms on the host
and guest. i tried a force constant of 1/100*single
bond strength.

when the umbrella distance between the host and guest
atoms is set to {0.4,0.4,0.4} (i.e. .4 nm separation
in x,y, z), i notice that the pull.pdo file
eventually shows the separations in x,y,z becoming
very small - on the order of 0.02nm, which should
surely result in an energy explosion. however, a 100ps
simulation runs to completion with no complaints.
examining the distance between the 2 pulled atoms
using g_bond shows that they in fact remain around
0.7nm (=sqrt(3*.4^2)) apart, as expected. visual
inspection of the trajectory confirms that the pulled
atoms don't approach each other too closely.

is this perchance a bug or am i doing something wrong?

i start the simulation from a random configuration
selected from a long unconstrained nvt run using

grompp -f umbrella.mdp -o u4 -t nvt1.trr -time 100 -n
index.ndx (where index.ndx defines energy groups),

then run using
mdrun -s u4.trr -pi pull.ppa -pd u4 -pn pull.ndx.

my pull.ppa file looks like this:
verbose = yes
runtype = umbrella
reference_group = zn152
group1 = n204
reftype = com
k1 = 4393.2
pos1 = 0.4 0.4 0.4

and pull.ndx is:

[ zn152 ]
152

[ n204 ]
204

please let me know if more information is required to
understand the problem.

any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

thanks
mo

ps - i also get an error running g_bond:
Fatal error:
No distribution(i0 = 999, i1 = 1)? ? ! ! ? !

with no histogram being output. i thought this may be
to do with the fact that the atoms aren't bonded, but
have yet to check on this.

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[gmx-users] VAL group

2006-09-19 Thread Owen, Michael
Title: VAL group







Hello gmx users,

when I convert a pdb file of a peptide that contains a valyl residue into a .gro file a separate group is made for the atoms in the valyl residue. This has happened when OPLSAA/l and the GROMOS96 53a6 force fields were used. The molecule appears as one in the topology file, and the atomic description of the valyl residue in the pdb file matches that of the ffoplsa.rtp file.

Could something be wrong with the pdb2gmx program?

Thank you in advance for any suggestions.

Sincerely,

Michael Owen



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Re: [gmx-users] make_hole vs. genconf

2006-09-19 Thread Arneh Babakhani

Great, thanks Chris!

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I'd like to build some lipids around a peptide.  Can I do so using 
genconf?  (I know genconf can be used to build a membrane.  I'm 
asking if genconf can be used to build a membrane around a solute, 
like a transmembrane protein?)


around? No.

I'm also aware of the make_hole tool.  My question here is:  Does 
make_hole create a hole of specified dimensions and orientation, 
according to the solute coordinates?  And can you specify exactly 
where in the membrane you want the whole?


Make_hole doesn't actually make a hole. You need to make the 
premilinary hole yourself. The general problem is that if you take out 
all lipids that contact the protein, then you will have a huge vaccuum 
aroung the protein. So first you take out all the lipids whose 
headgroup clashed  (manually) then run make_hole to bend the tails out 
of the space that is to be occupied by the protein, then add the protien.


You will need to install gromacs-3.1.4 to do this.

So basically what I'm asking is:  If you want to make a starting 
structure (or several structures) with the solute (a peptide) in a 
specific part of the membrane, is it better to set the desired 
coordinates of the peptide first and then build a membrane around 
it?  Or, is it wiser to start with an equilibrated membrane and use 
make_hole to create your hole first at the desired coordinates, then 
insert the peptide?


1. Build your membrane (or find coords somewhere)
2. equilibrate it
3. Use make_hole or inflategro (I have never tried this one)
http://moose.bio.ucalgary.ca/index.php?page=Translate_lipdis
4. re-equilibrate

Reason not to do it all at once is because you want to limit your 
protein's exposure to vaccuum, although I suppose you could use 
position restraints to solve this issue (heavy atom on the protein and 
a z-only on the lipid phosphate).


Chris

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Re: [gmx-users] Re: protein unstable for parallel job while stable for serial one

2006-09-19 Thread Tsjerk Wassenaar

Hi Akansha (and Mark),

The approach taken is indeed sensible, and in addition to that I fully
support the comments made by Mark. It's actually part of what I meant,
changing the number of processors gives you a difference between your
simulations. However, it should not give you a consistent difference.
That is, if you perform, say 100 simulations on 1 processor and 100 on
16, the results from one set should be similar to those obtained from
the other. In casu, you should observe the conformational change
approximately an equal number of times. The same would hold for full
convergence of your system. In that case, the number of transitions
(folding/unfolding, conformational change) should be approximately
equal over a certain time and have the same rate, duration, etc.
You'll only be able to get that for small systems.

It is possible that the division over multiple processors introduces
some artefacts, which was in fact found by Jelger Risselada some while
ago (you can check the mailinglist archive). But I think this bug was
fixed. You might be able to detect such a consistent effect in the
results if you perform say five simulations on 1 processor and five on
16 processors, using different starting velocities.

I hope this helps you a bit further.

Best regards,

Tsjerk


On 9/19/06, Mark Abraham [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Akansha Saxena wrote:
 This is what I was doing. I was running exactly
 identical simulations on 1 processor and on 16
 processors.
 By identical i mean - same starting structure,
 velocities taken from the same *.trr file. The only
 difference was the number of nodes for the production
 run.

Well this sounds sensible, so long as you weren't doing an erroneous
gen_vel = yes.

 But I give the same velocities and use exactly same
 starting structure for both simulations. Basically I
 use the same files for both cases. Only difference
 lying in the number of processors.
 I would think that with same intial conditions the
 calculations should be identical for both cases.

Real-world floating point computations are not algebraic computations.
You can divide a number n by x, and add the result to itself x times,
and a test for equality against n will fail, for sufficiently
pathological n and x. The order in which summation occurs when you have
a mixture of large and small numbers can also affect the result through
accumulated round-off errors. A parallel computation will effectively be
doing this. The fact this happens is not actually a problem - the
perturbation is not so large you are sampling a different ensemble. You
just don't have algebraic reproducibility.

Mark
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--
Tsjerk A. Wassenaar, Ph.D.
Groningen Biomolecular Sciences and Biotechnology Institute (GBB)
Dept. of Biophysical Chemistry
University of Groningen
Nijenborgh 4
9747AG Groningen, The Netherlands
+31 50 363 4336
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Re: [gmx-users] VAL group

2006-09-19 Thread Mark Abraham

Owen, Michael wrote:


Hello gmx users,

when I convert a pdb file of a peptide that contains a valyl residue 
into a .gro file a separate group is made for the atoms in the valyl 
residue.


In what sense...? please include a relevant file excerpt, and the 
commands that created it.


 This has happened when OPLSAA/l and the GROMOS96 53a6 force 
fields were used.  The molecule appears as one in the topology file,  
and the atomic description of the valyl residue in the pdb file matches 
that of the ffoplsa.rtp file.


Have these forcefields really being modified for a radical, or are you 
really describing a valine residue?


Mark
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Re: [gmx-users] Re: The molecule size (jiqing)

2006-09-19 Thread 主月 :)




》Has this force field been demonstrated to be effective for this sort 
ofsimulation? If not, maybe you've begun to demonstrate that it 
isn't?Mark

Yes , you are quite right. In GMX manual 3.2, 
at the end of chapter 4, it was said thatgromos96 is not, however, 
recommended for use with long alkanes and lipids.
So user has to validate force parameters. Now 
the problem is for a periodic boundary system, the density is ok but the Rg is 
too small. I feel the parameters for proper dihedrals need to be improved. Is it 
right?

*Ji 
QingInstitute of Chemistry, Chinese Academy of SciencesTel: 
0086-10-62562894 
,82618423*
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Re: [gmx-users] Re: The molecule size (jiqing)

2006-09-19 Thread Mark Abraham
主月 :) wrote:
  
 》Has this force field been demonstrated to be effective for this sort of
  simulation? If not, maybe you've begun to demonstrate that it isn't?
 
  Mark
  
 Yes , you are quite right. In GMX manual 3.2, at the end of chapter 4, 
 it was said that gromos96 is not, however, recommended for use with long 
 alkanes and lipids.
 So user has to validate force parameters. Now the problem is for a 
 periodic boundary system, the density is ok but the Rg is too small. I 
 feel the parameters for proper dihedrals need to be improved. Is it right?

It's likely that nobody knows.

Find a force field that does work for such simulations, or read
everything you can find on how to build force fields and do it from
scratch. Modifying one sort of parameter is like taking a Beethoven
symphony and substituting the second violin part with bass guitar line
from Smoke on the Water. It might work, but you'd be mad to bet on it.

Mark
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