[gmx-users] Error in .top when running grompp for final product MD

2007-01-05 Thread 한상화
Dear gromacs users,

 

I am running MD for a protein with 212 amino acid residues.

When I run grompp (grompp -f pn_md.mdp -c pn_md.pdb -r pn_md.pdb -p pn.top -
o pn_md.tpr ) for the final product MD, I receive the following error
message.

I properly included sol and ion in the temperature control part of
pn_md.mdp.

If I include “define = -DPORRES” in pn_md.mdp, both grompp and mdrun work
fine.

The topolofy file pn.top worked well in the previous steps (em.mdp and
pr.mdp).

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

 

Sanghwa Han

 

[Error Message]

creating statusfile for 1 node...
' for variable integrator, using 'md'
Next time use one of: 'md' 'steep' 'cg' 'bd' 'sd' 'nm' 'l-bfgs' 'tpi'
' for variable ns-type, using 'Grid'
Next time use one of: 'Grid' 'Simple'
' for variable coulombtype, using 'Cut-off'
Next time use one of: 'Cut-off' 'Reaction-Field' 'Generalized-Reaction-
Field' 'PME' 'Ewald' 'PPPM' 'Poisson' 'Switch' 'Shift' 'User' 'Generalized-
Born' 'Reaction-Field-nec' 'Encad-shift' 'PME-User'
' for variable optimize_fft, using 'no'
Next time use one of: 'no' 'yes'
' for variable tcoupl, using 'No'
Next time use one of: 'No' 'Berendsen' 'Nose-Hoover' 'yes' 'Andersen'
'Andersen-interval'
' for variable Pcoupl, using 'No'
Next time use one of: 'No' 'Berendsen' 'Parrinello-Rahman' 'Isotropic'
' for variable gen-vel, using 'no'
Next time use one of: 'no' 'yes'
' for variable constraints, using 'none'
Next time use one of: 'none' 'h-bonds' 'all-bonds' 'h-angles' 'all-angles'

Back Off! I just backed up mdout.mdp to ./#mdout.mdp.4#
checking input for internal consistency...
ling /usr/bin/cpp 
: no such file or directory
cpp: warning: '-x c' after last input file has no effect
cpp: no input files
cpp exit code: 256
  -I/usr/local/gromacs/share/gromacs/top  pn.top > gromppcHKNXc'
' command is defined in the .mdp file
processing topology...
processing coordinates...
---
Program grompp, VERSION 3.3.1
Source code file: grompp.c, line: 448

Fatal error:
number of coordinates in coordinate file (pn_md.pdb, 34158)
 does not match topology (pn.top, 0)
---

 

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[gmx-users] Interaction energy calculation in a radius

2007-01-05 Thread aloks
Hi all,
I want to calculate interaction energy between my ligand and residues of
proetins which come within 6A of any atoms of the raidus. I have defined
those residues and ligand as different groups. But how to select water
around 6A radius of the ligand during dynamicsfor the calculation. If I
consider all the water atoms for my calculation, huge contribution by
water molecules, i guess is giving lots of background and so I am getting
+ve values!

Any suggestion would be highly appreciated

alok
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[gmx-users] dihedral

2007-01-05 Thread Prasad Gajula
Dear Gromacs users,
Thanks a lot for your input so far.

my problem regarding the dihedral angle still suffering me. I need to
rotate a bond by certain angle, say from 30 to 150 degrees. i would like
to see how the peptide will change its conformation for example CIS to
TRANS by the rotation. I tried to use as chris suggested below. but could
not see any rotation around the bond. It is just fluctuating around its
original bond but not rotating. can u help me.

Thanks and regards
Gajula

>For example, my peptide is rotating 50 degrees about a bond B-C, out of
>four bonded atoms A-B-C-D.  I want to apply additional force on this
> dihedral(B-C) during my simulation(only for this particular atoms to
>make it rotate further till 180 degrees). All the remaining atoms in
the >peptide will have normal force as usual.
> May I ask you, how can I apply this in gromacs code.
> Any help will be appreciated!

The current manual is good at describing what the options do for
dihedral restraints, but (to my knowlegde) doesn't explain at all how
to get the implementation up and running. Here is how I have done it
based on searching the mailing list for answers. I suggest that
something like this is added by way of example to the manual for
future releases.

Also, the manual is a bit unclear about whether this type of dihedral
restraint is stable for use near 180deg. I have found that for my
system everything appears to behave normally and as expected over the
entire range of dihedral angles including 180deg.

In your .top file:

; Include forcefield parameters
#include "ffoplsaa.itp"
; Include topologies
#include "myprotein.itp"
[ dihedral_restraints ]
; ai   ajakal  type  label  phi  dphi  kfac  power
AB C D 1  1  180 0 1  2
#include "tip4p.itp"
etc...
Make sure that the dihedral_restraints section comes immediately after
the inclusion of the protein topology. If you have the protein
topology directly in your .top file then just include
dihedral_restraints after the protein listing but before any mention
of things that are not that protein molecule.

Add this to your .mdp
;dihedral restraints
dihre   =  simple
dihre_fc=  100 ; or whatever value you desire
dihre_tau   =  0.0
nstdihreout =  50

For more information about what these options mean, please refer to
the manual.

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Re: [gmx-users] Are the constraint forces included intheforcesoutputed in the

2007-01-05 Thread Pu Liu
  Could you please tell me if the constraint forces are included in the 
forces outputed in the trr file?


Constraint forces are not included. We should state this somewhere in the 
manual.


I wondered about this before as well. Shouldn't we include them  anyway?
It is quite important when you use the forces for e.g. computing a


You don't want to compute PMF from the forces in the trr file.
You need a lot of sampling for a PMF and the trr would become far too big.
Currently we have the pull code and free energy code, both with
umbrella sampling and constraints for determining PMF's.
I prefer to have F=-grad V in the trr file and not the constraint forces.


Thank you very much for all your helps.
That's great! The force without the constraint force is just what I want.
For free energy calculation, I will use thermodynamics intergration or pull 
code. Thank you for your kind suggestion.

I wondered about this before as well. Shouldn't we include them  anyway?
It might be a good idea to add an option to determine if writing the 
constraint force into trr file or not. How do you think?


-- Pu

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[gmx-users] gromacs 4 release date?

2007-01-05 Thread Chris Neale
Any projection date for a release? Of particular interest to me is 
whether it is very likely to come out before Jan 1 2008.


I have heard that v4 is expected to scale better for parallel runs than 
previous versions, is this correct? If so, how close to the namd scaling 
might gromacs get?


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Re: [gmx-users] tau_p

2007-01-05 Thread Mark Abraham
> Hi,
>
> Well, tau_p rather controls how the pressure fluctuates around the
> average..., ref_p is your attempt to control the average (if your
> system is set up properly).

Yeah, that :-)

Mark

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Re: [gmx-users] problem with genion

2007-01-05 Thread Abil Aliev
No, i am not. you?

On a serious note, bug 108  that David referred to (last modified this morning) 
suggests compilaton problems with gcc4 due to pbc.c, which doesnt sound healthy.

The same bugzilla page has a possible cure with suggestion to use gcc3, but 
changing from one gcc to another is not something i like doing. I used icc 9.1 
to compile gromacs-3.3.1. This solves the problem with genion I described 
earlier.

All under suse 10.2. Incidentally, non-oss repositary of this distro includes 
gromacs-3.3.1. But that has also got a problem with genion. 

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Re: [gmx-users] tau_p

2007-01-05 Thread Tsjerk Wassenaar

Hi,

Well, tau_p rather controls how the pressure fluctuates around the
average..., ref_p is your attempt to control the average (if your
system is set up properly).

Cheers,

Tsjerk

On 1/5/07, Mark Abraham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Dear all,
> I am running md simulations on a decapeptide, using pressure coupling
> [npt].
> My box is octahedral and box dimensions are set at peptide length plus
> twice
> the cut-off as recommended. I have set tau_p to be 1.0 ps. After 1 ns ,
> the
> average pressure had come down to 2.6 bar, though fluctuations were quite
> high. [Standard deviation 150.8 ] But after 6ns, the pressure has risen
> again to 4.6 bar. Can you please advise me on this?

What was your equilibration regime? Over what length of time are you
calculating these average pressures?

> Also, can you please
> tell me if there is any correlation between pressure average and tau_p
> values?

Yes, there will be for a properly set-up system.

Mark

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Junior UD (post-doc)
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Utrecht University
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Re: [gmx-users] About g_cluster

2007-01-05 Thread Caterina Arcangeli

Brigo et al. Biophys J. (2005) 88:3072
Smith et al. Proteins (2002) 48:487

Ciao
Caterina

Cesar Araujo ha scritto:

Hi,

Can anybody give some reference about a good explanation on how to use 
g_cluster in order to analyze a set of simulations on complexes 
differing one each other in their starting point conformation?


Thanks in adavance,
César.-

---
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Research Center for Molecular Endocrinology
P.O. Box 5000, FIN-90014 University of Oulu
Finland

phone: +358 8 3155632
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: [gmx-users] problem with genion

2007-01-05 Thread Mark Abraham
> While using genion with -np 3, i get 2 lines of Replacing sol. xxx with Na
> and it hangs up. With -np 1 it works fine and replaces 1 SOL with Na. I
> thought it might be my system, so went to /tutor/speptide, but it was the
> same behaviour. I am using gromacs 3.3.1. As I recall genion worked fine
> under 3.2.

That sounds very weird. Could you be running out of memory or some such?
What was your full command line?

Mark

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Re: [gmx-users] afm does not work!

2007-01-05 Thread Mark Abraham
> hi everyone
>   I need to pull the two parallel monolayers together,the two monolayers
> are in the x-y plane , so i pull the one along the z direction,but it
> stay still! i tried several times ,but all failed!
> i use the
> [position_restraints ]
>  1   1  9  9   4000
>  2   1  9  9   4000
> the 1 and £²¡¡are the atoms in the long molecules that form the monolayers
> ,if i decreased the fx,fy,fz,it show core fault and stopped!
>  the ; Force constants in kJ/(mol*nm^2)
> afm_k1   = 10
>   who can tell me why!

I can't even understand your statement of your problem, never mind
understanding the problem or helping to solve it.

If you want people to give free help, please write clearly, in full
sentences, describing what you wanted to do, what you actually did, what
the error messages actually were, and do all of the above using sensible
characters in sensible fonts.

Mark

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Re: [gmx-users] tau_p

2007-01-05 Thread Mark Abraham
> Dear all,
> I am running md simulations on a decapeptide, using pressure coupling
> [npt].
> My box is octahedral and box dimensions are set at peptide length plus
> twice
> the cut-off as recommended. I have set tau_p to be 1.0 ps. After 1 ns ,
> the
> average pressure had come down to 2.6 bar, though fluctuations were quite
> high. [Standard deviation 150.8 ] But after 6ns, the pressure has risen
> again to 4.6 bar. Can you please advise me on this?

What was your equilibration regime? Over what length of time are you
calculating these average pressures?

> Also, can you please
> tell me if there is any correlation between pressure average and tau_p
> values?

Yes, there will be for a properly set-up system.

Mark

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Re: Re: Re: [gmx-users] Installation of Gromacs and speed...

2007-01-05 Thread Mark Abraham
> Thank you for the reply. I have some more queries:
> So if I load Gromacs 3.3.1 on Octane will I gain on the time a bit ?

Maybe... depends if there were any meaningful speed-ups in parts of the
code you actually use.

> Do you suggest me to update the Gromacs versions on both the systems to
> Gromacs 3.3.1?

Yes.

> For this do I have to remove the older versions ? Will it over write.
> Can I keep both the versions loaded on the system or will there be  a
> clash ?

Save yourself some heartache and uninstall the old ones before installing
the new ones.

>  Do I have to load fftw once again ?

You can probably use the same fftw libraries, but you no longer need
parallel ones for 3.3.1.

Mark

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Re: [gmx-users] problem with genion

2007-01-05 Thread David van der Spoel

Abil Aliev wrote:
While using genion with -np 3, i get 2 lines of Replacing sol. xxx with 
Na and it hangs up. With -np 1 it works fine and replaces 1 SOL with Na. 
I thought it might be my system, so went to /tutor/speptide, but it was 
the same behaviour. I am using gromacs 3.3.1. As I recall genion worked 
fine under 3.2.


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there is a problem compiling gromacs using gcc 4.x that may cause this. 
see a recent bugzilla entry about it.


--
David.

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Dept. of Cell and Molecular Biology, Uppsala University.
Husargatan 3, Box 596,  75124 Uppsala, Sweden
phone:  46 18 471 4205  fax: 46 18 511 755
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Re: [gmx-users] problem regarding xmgr

2007-01-05 Thread David van der Spoel

sangeeta wrote:

Dear GROMACS list members,

It may be a very trivial question,But I can not solve it, please help,The 
commands like xmgrace,xpsview,xmgr, my-dssp are not working. How could I get 
out of that problem?


regards
Sangeeta 


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install the programs.

--
David.

David van der Spoel, PhD, Assoc. Prof., Molecular Biophysics group,
Dept. of Cell and Molecular Biology, Uppsala University.
Husargatan 3, Box 596,  75124 Uppsala, Sweden
phone:  46 18 471 4205  fax: 46 18 511 755
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[gmx-users] problem regarding xmgr

2007-01-05 Thread sangeeta
Dear GROMACS list members,

It may be a very trivial question,But I can not solve it, please help,The 
commands like xmgrace,xpsview,xmgr, my-dssp are not working. How could I get 
out of that problem?

regards
Sangeeta 

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[gmx-users] tau_p

2007-01-05 Thread chetana baliga

Dear all,
I am running md simulations on a decapeptide, using pressure coupling [npt].
My box is octahedral and box dimensions are set at peptide length plus twice
the cut-off as recommended. I have set tau_p to be 1.0 ps. After 1 ns , the
average pressure had come down to 2.6 bar, though fluctuations were quite
high. [Standard deviation 150.8 ] But after 6ns, the pressure has risen
again to 4.6 bar. Can you please advise me on this? Also, can you please
tell me if there is any correlation between pressure average and tau_p
values?
I have attached the md parameters file and the mdout files with this mail.
Thanks,
Chetana.
title   = MDP file for Full MD
cpp = /lib/cpp
integrator  = MD
tinit   = 0
dt  = 0.002
nstcomm = 1
nsteps  = 50 ; 1 ns (run control)
nstxout = 1
nstvout = 1
nstxtcout   = 250
nstenergy   = 250
energygrps  = Protein SOL ;(output control)
nstlist = 10
ns_type = grid
rlist   = 1.1 ;(neighbor searching)
coulombtype = PME
;rcoulomb_switch= 1.0
rcoulomb= 1.0
vdwtype = shift
rvdw_switch = 0.9
rvdw= 1.0
fourierspacing  = 0.12 ;(nm)
ewald_rtol  = 1e-5
pme_order   = 4  ;(electrostatics and VDW)
tcoupl  = berendsen
tc_grps = Protein SOL NA+
tau_t   = 0.1 0.1 0.1
ref_t   = 300 300 300;(Temperature coupling)
; pressure coupling is on
pcoupl  = berendsen
tau_p   = 1.0
compressibility = 4.5e-5
ref_p   = 1.0
gen_vel = no
constraints = all-bonds
constraint_algorithm= lincs
;   File 'mdout.mdp' was generated
;   By user: chetana (501)
;   On host: alanine
;   At date: Mon Jan  1 12:28:06 2007
;

; VARIOUS PREPROCESSING OPTIONS
title= MDP file for Full MD
cpp  = /lib/cpp
include  =
define   =

; RUN CONTROL PARAMETERS
integrator   = MD
; Start time and timestep in ps
tinit= 0
dt   = 0.002
nsteps   = 50
; For exact run continuation or redoing part of a run
init_step= 0
; mode for center of mass motion removal
comm-mode= Linear
; number of steps for center of mass motion removal
nstcomm  = 1
; group(s) for center of mass motion removal
comm-grps=

; LANGEVIN DYNAMICS OPTIONS
; Temperature, friction coefficient (amu/ps) and random seed
bd-temp  = 300
bd-fric  = 0
ld-seed  = 1993

; ENERGY MINIMIZATION OPTIONS
; Force tolerance and initial step-size
emtol= 10
emstep   = 0.01
; Max number of iterations in relax_shells
niter= 20
; Step size (1/ps^2) for minimization of flexible constraints
fcstep   = 0
; Frequency of steepest descents steps when doing CG
nstcgsteep   = 1000
nbfgscorr= 10

; OUTPUT CONTROL OPTIONS
; Output frequency for coords (x), velocities (v) and forces (f)
nstxout  = 1
nstvout  = 1
nstfout  = 0
; Checkpointing helps you continue after crashes
nstcheckpoint= 1000
; Output frequency for energies to log file and energy file
nstlog   = 100
nstenergy= 250
; Output frequency and precision for xtc file
nstxtcout= 250
xtc-precision= 1000
; This selects the subset of atoms for the xtc file. You can
; select multiple groups. By default all atoms will be written.
xtc-grps =
; Selection of energy groups
energygrps   = Protein SOL

; NEIGHBORSEARCHING PARAMETERS
; nblist update frequency
nstlist  = 10
; ns algorithm (simple or grid)
ns_type  = grid
; Periodic boundary conditions: xyz (default), no (vacuum)
; or full (infinite systems only)
pbc  = xyz
; nblist cut-off
rlist= 1.1
domain-decomposition = no

; OPTIONS FOR ELECTROSTATICS AND VDW
; Method for doing electrostatics
coulombtype  = PME
rcoulomb-switch  = 0
rcoulomb = 1.0
; Dielectric constant (DC) for cut-off or DC of reaction field
epsilon-r= 1
; Method for doing Van der Waals
vdwtype  = shift
; cut-off lengths
rvdw_switch  = 0.9
rvdw = 1.0
; Apply long range dispersion corrections for Energy and Pressure
DispCorr = No
; Extension of the potential lookup tables beyond the cut-off
table-extension  = 1
; Spacing for the PME/

[gmx-users] problem with genion

2007-01-05 Thread Abil Aliev
While using genion with -np 3, i get 2 lines of Replacing sol. xxx with Na and 
it hangs up. With -np 1 it works fine and replaces 1 SOL with Na. I thought it 
might be my system, so went to /tutor/speptide, but it was the same behaviour. 
I am using gromacs 3.3.1. As I recall genion worked fine under 3.2.

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[gmx-users] afm does not work!

2007-01-05 Thread zzhwise1
hi everyone
  I need to pull the two parallel monolayers together,the two monolayers are in 
the x-y plane , so i pull the one along the z direction,but it stay still! i 
tried several times ,but all failed! 
i use the 
[position_restraints ]  
   1   1  9  9   4000 
 2   1  9  9   4000
the 1 and 2 are the atoms in the long molecules that form the monolayers ,if i 
decreased the fx,fy,fz,it show core fault and stopped!
 the ; Force constants in kJ/(mol*nm^2)
afm_k1   = 10
  who can tell me why!
 
thanks !
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Re: [gmx-users] Installation of Gromacs and speed...

2007-01-05 Thread sharada





Swamy Kakumani,
 Thank you for the reply. I am not working on the parallel machines, Linux 
version is Fedora Core 4 System's configuration is listed below in my previous 
mail.  
regards 
sharada
-- Original Message --
From: swamy kakumani <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 08:26:29 + (GMT)
Subject: [gmx-users] Installation of Gromacs and speed...


sharada,

 

it is better to load new version and uninstall the older version. you have to 
load new fftw.

 

give the answers for following

 

1.are u working parallel or on one system?

2.mention your system configuration.?

3.ur linux version?

 

swamy,

bioinformatics centre,

dept. of biochemistry,

sri krishnadevaraya university,

anantapur-515003

andhra pradesh
sharada <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:







Thank you for the reply. I have some more queries:
So if I load Gromacs 3.3.1 on Octane will I gain on the time a bit ? 
Do you suggest me to update the Gromacs versions on both the systems to Gromacs 
3.3.1? 
For this do I have to remove the older versions ? Will it over write.
Can I keep both the versions loaded on the system or will there be  a clash ? 
Do I have to load fftw once again ?
Bothering you with too many questions ! Answers for these would help me to 
decide .
Thanks in advance.
sharada
-- Original Message --
From: "Mark Abraham" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Discussion list for GROMACS users" 
Date: Thu, 4 Jan  2007 19:32:27 +1100 (EST)
Subject: Re: Re: [gmx-users] Difference in the Forcefields and speed...
> If I do the MD studies using Gromacs 3.1 and Gromacs 3.3 with differennt
> forcefields like ffg43a1 and ffG53a5 respectively in the same simulating
> conditions how different would be my results ? or will there be any
> difference ?
In theory both forcefield models are accurate representations of reality
over the domain over which they were parametrized. There's no guarantee
that they'd be similar to each other on a given domain, or to reality, and
the further you get from their parameterization domain, the worse the
chances.
Ignoring a handful of bug fixes, gromacs 3.1 and 3.3 should produce
similar ensembles, but they cannot be exactly the same.
> Is there a difference in the speed of the simulations say if I run them
> on SGI Octane R12000 and a Personal computer with 512 RAM Pentium III ?
>  Incidently Gromacs 3.1 is loaded on Octane and Gromacs 3.3 on Pentium III
Yep.
> Why I am asking the second question is that the time taken on Octane is
> much larger ( around 9 days) compared to the Pentium III (3 days) what may
> be the reason ?
Probably, the assembly-language optimized inner loops are being used on
the PIII, and generic inner loops on the Octane. The vast majority of MD
simulation time is spent in these loops, so they are critical to
performance. Obviously, native CPU speed is also an issue here too.
Mark
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Re: [gmx-users] Are the constraint forces included inthe forcesoutputed in the

2007-01-05 Thread Berk Hess





From: David van der Spoel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: Discussion list for GROMACS users 
To: Discussion list for GROMACS users 
Subject: Re: [gmx-users] Are the constraint forces included 
inthe	forcesoutputed in the

Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 10:40:18 +0100

Berk Hess wrote:





From: "Pu Liu" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: Discussion list for GROMACS users 
To: gmx-users@gromacs.org
Subject: [gmx-users] Are the constraint forces included in the 
forcesoutputed in the trr file? Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 00:34:03 +


Dear GROMACS list members,

  Could you please tell me if the constraint forces are included in the 
forces outputed in the trr file, or just used to propagate the system?


Constraint forces are not included.

We should state this somewhere in the manual.

Berk.



I wondered about this before as well. Shouldn't we include them anyway?
It is quite important when you use the forces for e.g. computing a


You don't want to compute PMF from the forces in the trr file.
You need a lot of sampling for a PMF and the trr would become far
to big.
Currently we have the pull code and free energy code, both with
umbrella sampling and constraints for determining PMF's.

I prefer to have F=-grad V in the trr file and not the constraint forces.

Berk.

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Re: [gmx-users] Are the constraint forces included in the forcesoutputed in the

2007-01-05 Thread David van der Spoel

Berk Hess wrote:





From: "Pu Liu" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: Discussion list for GROMACS users 
To: gmx-users@gromacs.org
Subject: [gmx-users] Are the constraint forces included in the 
forcesoutputed in the trr file? Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 00:34:03 +


Dear GROMACS list members,

  Could you please tell me if the constraint forces are included in 
the forces outputed in the trr file, or just used to propagate the 
system?


Constraint forces are not included.

We should state this somewhere in the manual.

Berk.



I wondered about this before as well. Shouldn't we include them anyway?
It is quite important when you use the forces for e.g. computing a PMF.

--
David.

David van der Spoel, PhD, Assoc. Prof., Molecular Biophysics group,
Dept. of Cell and Molecular Biology, Uppsala University.
Husargatan 3, Box 596,  75124 Uppsala, Sweden
phone:  46 18 471 4205  fax: 46 18 511 755
[EMAIL PROTECTED]   [EMAIL PROTECTED]   http://folding.bmc.uu.se

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RE: [gmx-users] Are the constraint forces included in the forcesoutputed in the

2007-01-05 Thread Berk Hess





From: "Pu Liu" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: Discussion list for GROMACS users 
To: gmx-users@gromacs.org
Subject: [gmx-users] Are the constraint forces included in the 
forcesoutputed in the trr file? Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 00:34:03 +


Dear GROMACS list members,

  Could you please tell me if the constraint forces are included in the 
forces outputed in the trr file, or just used to propagate the system?


Constraint forces are not included.

We should state this somewhere in the manual.

Berk.

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