Re: [gmx-users] dssp and gromacs version

2012-03-02 Thread lina
On Fri, Mar 2, 2012 at 3:55 PM, Mark Abraham mark.abra...@anu.edu.au wrote:
 On 2/03/2012 6:52 PM, lina wrote:

 Hi,

 is the old dssp not compatible with the gromacs 4.5.5 ?

 I am confused,

 Thanks,

 Best regards,


 The new DSSP is not compatible with any GROMACS

Ha ... the dssp complain the segmentation fault in 4.5.5, but can run
smoothly in 4.5.3.

IIRC, seems there were some threads talked about that before.


 Mark
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Re: [gmx-users] dssp and gromacs version

2012-03-02 Thread João Henriques
Gromacs' 4.5.5 do_dssp is broken. There is a patch for it in git. I haven't
tried it out, so I can't say for sure it works. This is not a DSSP problem,
it's a Gromacs problem. Just to reinforce the idea, the new DSSP should not
be used, no matter which Gromacs version you're using.

Best regards,
Joao Henriques


On Fri, Mar 2, 2012 at 9:10 AM, lina lina.lastn...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Fri, Mar 2, 2012 at 3:55 PM, Mark Abraham mark.abra...@anu.edu.au
 wrote:
  On 2/03/2012 6:52 PM, lina wrote:
 
  Hi,
 
  is the old dssp not compatible with the gromacs 4.5.5 ?
 
  I am confused,
 
  Thanks,
 
  Best regards,
 
 
  The new DSSP is not compatible with any GROMACS

 Ha ... the dssp complain the segmentation fault in 4.5.5, but can run
 smoothly in 4.5.3.

 IIRC, seems there were some threads talked about that before.

 
  Mark
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Re: [gmx-users] MDrun append...

2012-03-02 Thread lloyd riggs
Dear Rama,

Since the latest version, I have to use -noappend and then just concantenate 
them when they are finished.  I gave up as no mater how many paths to files, 
listening to the error messages, I supplied to the mdrun it still complained.  
Dont know if this is a personalized bug or more general, but figured the former 
and was not such a big deal, so never wrote here.

Stephan

 Original-Nachricht 
 Datum: Fri, 02 Mar 2012 17:31:49 +1100
 Von: Mark Abraham mark.abra...@anu.edu.au
 An: Discussion list for GROMACS users gmx-users@gromacs.org
 Betreff: Re: [gmx-users] MDrun append...

 On 2/03/2012 3:59 PM, rama david wrote:
  Dear GROMACS Friends,
 
   my MD run get crashed , I foollow following command ..
 
  mdrun -s protein_md.tpr -c protein_md.trr -e protein_md.edr -g 
  protein_md.log -cpi -append -v
 
   the system respond in a way..
  Fatal error:
  The original run wrote a file called 'traj.trr' which is larger than 2 
  GB, but mdrun did not support large file offsets. Can not append. Run 
  mdrun with -noappend
  What to do ???
 
 Update whichever of your filesystem or mdrun is outdated, or use 
 -noappend and resign yourself to concatenation after the simulation 
 completes.
 
 Mark
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Re: [gmx-users] Gromacs-GPU benchmark test killed after exhausting the memory

2012-03-02 Thread Szilárd Páll
Hi,

First I thought that there might be a memory leak which could have
caused this if you ran for really long time. However, I've just ran
the very same benchmark (dhfr with PME) for one hour, monitored the
memory usage and I couldn't see any change whatsoever (see the plot
attached).

I've attached a script I used to monitor the memory usage, feel free
to use if you want check again.

Cheers,
--
Szilárd



On Wed, Feb 29, 2012 at 9:50 AM, Efrat Exlrod efrat.exl...@biu.ac.il wrote:
 Hi,

 I have Gromacs-GPU version 4.5.5 and GTX 580.
 I ran dhfr-solv-PME benchmark test (see below) and my run was killed after
 couple of hours exhausting all the computer memory, including the swap (2G
 + 4G swap).
 Has anyone encountered this problem? What is wrong?

 Thanks, Efrat

 mdrun-gpu -device
 OpenMM:platform=Cuda,memtest=15,deviceid=0,force-device=yes -deffnm md
  :-)  G  R  O  M  A  C  S  (-:

    Great Red Oystrich Makes All Chemists Sane

     :-)  VERSION 4.5.5  (-:

     Written by Emile Apol, Rossen Apostolov, Herman J.C. Berendsen,
   Aldert van Buuren, Pär Bjelkmar, Rudi van Drunen, Anton Feenstra,
 Gerrit Groenhof, Peter Kasson, Per Larsson, Pieter Meulenhoff,
    Teemu Murtola, Szilard Pall, Sander Pronk, Roland Schulz,
     Michael Shirts, Alfons Sijbers, Peter Tieleman,

    Berk Hess, David van der Spoel, and Erik Lindahl.

    Copyright (c) 1991-2000, University of Groningen, The Netherlands.
     Copyright (c) 2001-2010, The GROMACS development team at
     Uppsala University  The Royal Institute of Technology, Sweden.
     check out http://www.gromacs.org for more information.

  This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or
   modify it under the terms of the GNU General Public License
  as published by the Free Software Foundation; either version 2
  of the License, or (at your option) any later version.

   :-)  mdrun-gpu  (-:

 Option Filename  Type Description
 
   -s md.tpr  Input    Run input file: tpr tpb tpa
   -o md.trr  Output   Full precision trajectory: trr trj cpt
   -x md.xtc  Output, Opt. Compressed trajectory (portable xdr
 format)
 -cpi md.cpt  Input, Opt.  Checkpoint file
 -cpo md.cpt  Output, Opt. Checkpoint file
   -c md.gro  Output   Structure file: gro g96 pdb etc.
   -e md.edr  Output   Energy file
   -g md.log  Output   Log file
 -dhdlmd.xvg  Output, Opt. xvgr/xmgr file
 -field   md.xvg  Output, Opt. xvgr/xmgr file
 -table   md.xvg  Input, Opt.  xvgr/xmgr file
 -tablep  md.xvg  Input, Opt.  xvgr/xmgr file
 -tableb  md.xvg  Input, Opt.  xvgr/xmgr file
 -rerun   md.xtc  Input, Opt.  Trajectory: xtc trr trj gro g96 pdb cpt
 -tpi md.xvg  Output, Opt. xvgr/xmgr file
 -tpidmd.xvg  Output, Opt. xvgr/xmgr file
  -ei md.edi  Input, Opt.  ED sampling input
  -eo md.edo  Output, Opt. ED sampling output
   -j md.gct  Input, Opt.  General coupling stuff
  -jo md.gct  Output, Opt. General coupling stuff
 -ffout   md.xvg  Output, Opt. xvgr/xmgr file
 -devout  md.xvg  Output, Opt. xvgr/xmgr file
 -runav   md.xvg  Output, Opt. xvgr/xmgr file
  -px md.xvg  Output, Opt. xvgr/xmgr file
  -pf md.xvg  Output, Opt. xvgr/xmgr file
 -mtx md.mtx  Output, Opt. Hessian matrix
  -dn md.ndx  Output, Opt. Index file
 -multidirmd  Input, Opt., Mult. Run directory

 Option   Type   Value   Description
 --
 -[no]h   bool   no  Print help info and quit
 -[no]version bool   no  Print version info and quit
 -niceint    0   Set the nicelevel
 -deffnm  string md  Set the default filename for all file options
 -xvg enum   xmgrace  xvg plot formatting: xmgrace, xmgr or none
 -[no]pd  bool   no  Use particle decompostion
 -dd  vector 0 0 0   Domain decomposition grid, 0 is optimize
 -npmeint    -1  Number of separate nodes to be used for PME, -1
     is guess
 -ddorder enum   interleave  DD node order: interleave, pp_pme or
 cartesian
 -[no]ddcheck bool   yes Check for all bonded interactions with DD
 -rdd real   0   The maximum distance for bonded interactions
 with
     DD (nm), 0 is determine from initial coordinates
 -rcon    real   0   Maximum distance for P-LINCS (nm), 0 is estimate
 -dlb enum   auto    Dynamic load balancing (with DD): auto, no or
 yes
 -dds real   0.8 Minimum allowed dlb scaling of the DD cell size
 -gcomint    -1  Global communication frequency
 -[no]v   bool   no

Re: [gmx-users] impropers and residue number

2012-03-02 Thread Justin A. Lemkul



Lara Bunte wrote:

Hello

I got this error:

Fatal error:
Atom ON1 is used in an interaction of type improper in the topology
database, but an atom of that name was not found in residue
number 1.


What do this mean? How to fix it? 



The Atom ON1 is declared in atomtypes.atp file. 



In my .rtp file I used [ impropers ] and I use a charmm27 force field.




Impropers are specified in the .rtp file by atom name, not type.  So the error 
indicates that pdb2gmx (?) thinks an atom *named* ON1 should be present, which 
it is not.


-Justin

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Ph.D. Candidate
ICTAS Doctoral Scholar
MILES-IGERT Trainee
Department of Biochemistry
Virginia Tech
Blacksburg, VA
jalemkul[at]vt.edu | (540) 231-9080
http://www.bevanlab.biochem.vt.edu/Pages/Personal/justin


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[gmx-users] Lennard-Jones Interactions in Gromacs

2012-03-02 Thread Lara Bunte
Hi

In a supporting Information of a paper is written:

The description of the LF radical force fields is complete, as soon as also 
the parameters of the Lennard-Jones potentials are given. For these parameters 
we adopt the values specified in the CHARMM22 force field for the basic atom 
types


Please tell me how, what and where I have to do this. 

I know that Lennard-jones interactions are in the ffnonbonded.itp file in the 
section [ pairtypes ]but I don't know what to do. 


Sorry for my probably stupid question but I don't understand it. :-( 

Thank you very much for your help.

Greetings
Lara

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[gmx-users] Re: Re: mdrun -multi flag (Mark Abraham)

2012-03-02 Thread bo.shuang
Hi, Mark,

Thank you for help. It works. But now I have new fatal error:

Fatal error:
The number of nodes (1) is not a multiple of the number of simulations (2)

MPI_ABORT was invoked on rank 0 in communicator MPI_COMM_WORLD
with errorcode -1.

NOTE: invoking MPI_ABORT causes Open MPI to kill all MPI processes.
You may or may not see output from other processes, depending on
exactly when Open MPI kills them.


What does it mean about nodes? Thank you!

Bo

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 Today's Topics:

   1. Re: mdrun -multi flag (Mark Abraham)
   2. Re: dihedral distributions (Juliette N.)


 --

 Message: 1
 Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2012 10:17:12 +1100
 From: Mark Abraham mark.abra...@anu.edu.au
 Subject: Re: [gmx-users] mdrun -multi flag
 To: Discussion list for GROMACS users gmx-users@gromacs.org
 Message-ID: 4f500378.7030...@anu.edu.au
 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

 On 2/03/2012 10:15 AM, bo.shuang wrote:
  Hello, all,
 
  I am trying to do REMD simulation. So I used command:
 
  mdrun -s t2T.tpr -multi 2 -replex 1000
 
  And gromacs gives error report:
  Fatal error:
  mdrun -multi is not supported with the thread library.Please compile
  GROMACS with MPI support
  For more information and tips for troubleshooting, please check the
  GROMACS
  website at http://www.gromacs.org/Documentation/Errors
 
  Then I tried re-install mdrun:
  ./configure --enable-mpi --program-suffix=_mpiq
  make mdrun
  make install-mdrun
 
  It looks fine, but I still cannot use multi flag, and it is still the
  same error. I don't know what the problem is and what I should do
  next. Thank you for help!

 With that program suffix, you need to use mdrun_mpiq

 Mark


 --

 Message: 2
 Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2012 20:42:06 -0500
 From: Juliette N. joojoojo...@gmail.com
 Subject: Re: [gmx-users] dihedral distributions
 To: Discussion list for GROMACS users gmx-users@gromacs.org
 Message-ID:
cagdqh4os1kuuogwlncznyxrf9sra_+a8s0eku2bum6cojvz...@mail.gmail.com
 
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Re: [gmx-users] Re: Re: mdrun -multi flag (Mark Abraham)

2012-03-02 Thread Justin A. Lemkul



bo.shuang wrote:

Hi, Mark,

Thank you for help. It works. But now I have new fatal error:

Fatal error:
The number of nodes (1) is not a multiple of the number of simulations (2)

MPI_ABORT was invoked on rank 0 in communicator MPI_COMM_WORLD
with errorcode -1.

NOTE: invoking MPI_ABORT causes Open MPI to kill all MPI processes.
You may or may not see output from other processes, depending on
exactly when Open MPI kills them.


What does it mean about nodes? Thank you!



Running multiple simulations requires multiple processors.  For 2 simulations, 
you need at least 2 processors (one for each simulation).  More can be used, but 
it must be a multiple of the number of simulations, as the error message indicates.


-Justin

--


Justin A. Lemkul
Ph.D. Candidate
ICTAS Doctoral Scholar
MILES-IGERT Trainee
Department of Biochemistry
Virginia Tech
Blacksburg, VA
jalemkul[at]vt.edu | (540) 231-9080
http://www.bevanlab.biochem.vt.edu/Pages/Personal/justin


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Re: [gmx-users] Extending simulation with -pd

2012-03-02 Thread Peter C. Lai
On 2012-03-02 05:25:01PM +, Steven Neumann wrote:
 Dear Gmx Users,
 
 I run nvt simulation with small timestep with implicit solvent for 500 ps.
 I used particle decomposition for this run (-pd). No I want to extend my
 simulation with different mdp file from the previous nvt using:
 
 
 grompp -f new.mdp -c old.tpr -o new.tpr -t old.cpt
 
 mdrun -s new.tpr (-pd?)
 
 
 
 This is my question - shall use -pd option again or will it be considered
 automatically?

The manual entry for mdrun tells you what commandline switches are
considered enabled by default. I don't think -pd is one of them so you 
will have to specify it every time (it's safer to specify it anyway).

-- 
==
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Programmer/Analyst  | KAUL 752A
Genetics, Div. of Research  | 705 South 20th Street
p...@uab.edu| Birmingham AL 35294-4461
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[gmx-users] [ bondedtypes ]

2012-03-02 Thread Lara Bunte
Hi

The first part in a .rtp file is the [ bondedtypes ] with syntax

[ bondedtypes ]
; bonds    angles    dihedrals    impropers
 1 1  1 2



1.)

What do this numbers mean? I found nothing in the manual to that. 



2.)
If you have improper dihedrals, do you really nead both in this section? Why 
not only impropers? 

Thanks
Greetings

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[gmx-users] Re: Lennard-Jones Interactions in Gromacs

2012-03-02 Thread Lara Bunte
Please help :-(

Greetings
Lara

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Re: [gmx-users] Re: Lennard-Jones Interactions in Gromacs

2012-03-02 Thread Justin A. Lemkul



Lara Bunte wrote:

Please help :-(



Please realize that you're asking for free help from a global mailing list.  You 
may not get a reply from someone immediately, as that person may be busy with 
their own work, or even asleep ;)


From your original post:

 In a supporting Information of a paper is written:

 The description of the LF radical force fields is complete, as soon as also
 the parameters of the Lennard-Jones potentials are given. For these parameters
 we adopt the values specified in the CHARMM22 force field for the basic atom
 types


 Please tell me how, what and where I have to do this.

 I know that Lennard-jones interactions are in the ffnonbonded.itp file in the
 section [ pairtypes ]but I don't know what

The [pairtypes] directive is for adding special 1-4 interactions.  Everything 
else is simply stated in the [atomtypes] directive, providing sigma/epsilon or 
C6/C12 parameters, whatever is required by the force field.  L-J interactions 
between different atom types are then generated according to combination rules. 
 Some force fields (like Gromos) use additional [nonbond_params] for 
interactions that do not follow standard combination rules, but that's not 
necessarily relevant here.


-Justin

--


Justin A. Lemkul
Ph.D. Candidate
ICTAS Doctoral Scholar
MILES-IGERT Trainee
Department of Biochemistry
Virginia Tech
Blacksburg, VA
jalemkul[at]vt.edu | (540) 231-9080
http://www.bevanlab.biochem.vt.edu/Pages/Personal/justin


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Re: [gmx-users] [ bondedtypes ]

2012-03-02 Thread Justin A. Lemkul



Lara Bunte wrote:

Hi

The first part in a .rtp file is the [ bondedtypes ] with syntax

[ bondedtypes ]
; bondsanglesdihedralsimpropers
 1 1  1 2



1.)

What do this numbers mean? I found nothing in the manual to that. 



They are the function types for these different interactions.  Function types 
are listed in Table 5.5.





2.)
If you have improper dihedrals, do you really nead both in this section? Why not only impropers? 



The order of the function types must be adhered to so that the parameters are 
properly interpreted.  Check gmx.ff/aminoacids.rtp for a complete description of 
each of the 8 possible columns and the order that they must follow.


-Justin

--


Justin A. Lemkul
Ph.D. Candidate
ICTAS Doctoral Scholar
MILES-IGERT Trainee
Department of Biochemistry
Virginia Tech
Blacksburg, VA
jalemkul[at]vt.edu | (540) 231-9080
http://www.bevanlab.biochem.vt.edu/Pages/Personal/justin


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[gmx-users] Re: Re: Re: Re: mdrun -multi flag (Mark Abraham) (Justin A. Lemkul)

2012-03-02 Thread bo.shuang
Thank you for help! Is that possible to run REMD on a PC with only one
processor?

Bo

bo.shuang wrote:
 Hi, Mark,

 Thank you for help. It works. But now I have new fatal error:

 Fatal error:
 The number of nodes (1) is not a multiple of the number of simulations (2)

 MPI_ABORT was invoked on rank 0 in communicator MPI_COMM_WORLD
 with errorcode -1.

 NOTE: invoking MPI_ABORT causes Open MPI to kill all MPI processes.
 You may or may not see output from other processes, depending on
 exactly when Open MPI kills them.


 What does it mean about nodes? Thank you!


Running multiple simulations requires multiple processors.  For 2
simulations,
you need at least 2 processors (one for each simulation).  More can be
used, but
it must be a multiple of the number of simulations, as the error message
indicates.

-Justin
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Re: [gmx-users] [ bondedtypes ]

2012-03-02 Thread Mark Abraham

On 3/03/2012 5:17 AM, Lara Bunte wrote:

Hi

The first part in a .rtp file is the [ bondedtypes ] with syntax

[ bondedtypes ]
; bondsanglesdihedralsimpropers
  1 1  1 2



1.)

What do this numbers mean? I found nothing in the manual to that.


Manual 5.6.1 - title residue database.

Mark





2.)
If you have improper dihedrals, do you really nead both in this section? Why not only impropers? 


Thanks
Greetings



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Re: [gmx-users] Re: Re: Re: Re: mdrun -multi flag (Mark Abraham) (Justin A. Lemkul)

2012-03-02 Thread Mark Abraham

On 3/03/2012 7:34 AM, bo.shuang wrote:
Thank you for help! Is that possible to run REMD on a PC with only one 
processor?


No. See http://www.gromacs.org/Documentation/How-tos/REMD

Mark



Bo

bo.shuang wrote:
 Hi, Mark,

 Thank you for help. It works. But now I have new fatal error:

 Fatal error:
 The number of nodes (1) is not a multiple of the number of 
simulations (2)


 MPI_ABORT was invoked on rank 0 in communicator MPI_COMM_WORLD
 with errorcode -1.

 NOTE: invoking MPI_ABORT causes Open MPI to kill all MPI processes.
 You may or may not see output from other processes, depending on
 exactly when Open MPI kills them.


 What does it mean about nodes? Thank you!


Running multiple simulations requires multiple processors.  For 2 
simulations,
you need at least 2 processors (one for each simulation).  More can be 
used, but
it must be a multiple of the number of simulations, as the error 
message indicates.


-Justin




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[gmx-users] Anomalous temperature

2012-03-02 Thread zhongjin
Dear gmx users,
 
   It seems that I have found a strange temperature value after NVT equilibrium 
for 200 ps. I simulate a CNT with two graphite sheets in water box. I do not 
want to them to deform or change their shaps, So I use a very large position 
restraint (1*10^6) to keep their shaps. The temperature was set to 300 K, but 
after NVT equilibrium, the tempertaure was 330K.
 
.mdp content
define   = -DPOSRES_CNTGATE -DPOSRES_K -DPOSRES_CL
; OPTIONS FOR WEAK COUPLING ALGORITHMS
; Temperature coupling  
tcoupl   = v-rescale
nsttcouple   = -1
nh-chain-length  = 1
; Groups to couple separately
tc-grps  = Other Water_and_ions
; Time constant (ps) and reference temperature (K)
tau-t    = 0.1 0.1
ref-t    = 300 300
 
results
Energy  Average   Err.Est.   RMSD  Tot-Drift
---
Temperature 331.548    2.6    10.3739    15.0042  (K)
T-Other 436.927 12    39.4112    67.2519  (K)
T-Water_and_ions    303.349   0.16    6.07417    1.02328  (K)
 
the Other, that is CNT and two graphite sheets temperature is very high!!!
 
Howerver when I freeze them, the temperture is OK
 
freezegrps   = K CL Other
freezedim    = Y Y Y Y Y Y Y Y Y
 
the results is

Energy  Average   Err.Est.   RMSD  Tot-Drift
---
Temperature 299.998 0.0034    4.84173 -0.0066645  (K)
T-Other   0  0  0  0  (K)
T-Water_and_ions    299.998 0.0034    4.84173 -0.0066645  (K)
 
So I should freeze them or use a small postion restraint to constaint them, in 
order to get the correct temperture?
 
Zhongjin He-- 
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[gmx-users] do_dssp segmentation fault

2012-03-02 Thread arun kumar
Dear all,

Iam trying to generate secondary structure plot through do_dssp program,
but there was an error like segmentation fault

Reading file md.tpr, VERSION 4.0.7 (single precision)
Reading file md.tpr, VERSION 4.0.7 (single precision)
Segmentation fault (core dumped)
bash-4.1#

can anybody please say what it means and how to solve it

Regards,
-- 
Arun Kumar Somavarapu
Project-JRF
Dr. Prasanna's lab
TMC, ACTREC
Navi Mumbai-410210
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Re: [gmx-users] do_dssp segmentation fault

2012-03-02 Thread Mark Abraham

On 3/03/2012 5:14 PM, arun kumar wrote:

Dear all,

Iam trying to generate secondary structure plot through do_dssp 
program, but there was an error like segmentation fault


Reading file md.tpr, VERSION 4.0.7 (single precision)
Reading file md.tpr, VERSION 4.0.7 (single precision)
Segmentation fault (core dumped)
bash-4.1#

can anybody please say what it means and how to solve it


No, because there's no diagnostic information. Do other GROMACS tools 
work? Does the DSSP executable work?


Mark
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Re: [gmx-users] Anomalous temperature

2012-03-02 Thread Mark Abraham

On 3/03/2012 5:08 PM, zhongjin wrote:

Dear gmx users,
   It seems that I have found a strange temperature value after NVT 
equilibrium for 200 ps. I simulate a CNT with two graphite sheets in 
water box. I do not want to them to deform or change their shaps, So I 
use a very large position restraint (1*10^6) to keep their shaps. The 
temperature was set to 300 K, but after NVT equilibrium, the 
tempertaure was 330K.

.mdp content
define   = -DPOSRES_CNTGATE -DPOSRES_K -DPOSRES_CL
; OPTIONS FOR WEAK COUPLING ALGORITHMS
; Temperature coupling
tcoupl   = v-rescale
nsttcouple   = -1
nh-chain-length  = 1
; Groups to couple separately
tc-grps  = Other Water_and_ions
; Time constant (ps) and reference temperature (K)
tau-t= 0.1 0.1
ref-t= 300 300
results
Energy  Average   Err.Est.   RMSD  Tot-Drift
---
Temperature 331.5482.610.373915.0042  (K)
T-Other 436.927 1239.411267.2519  (K)
T-Water_and_ions303.349   0.166.074171.02328  (K)
the Other, that is CNT and two graphite sheets temperature is very high!!!
Howerver when I freeze them, the temperture is OK
freezegrps   = K CL Other
freezedim= Y Y Y Y Y Y Y Y Y
the results is

Energy  Average   Err.Est.   RMSD  Tot-Drift
---
Temperature 299.998 0.00344.84173 -0.0066645  (K)
T-Other   0  0  0  0  (K)
T-Water_and_ions299.998 0.00344.84173 -0.0066645  (K)
So I should freeze them or use a small postion restraint to constaint 
them, in order to get the correct temperture?




By introducing position restraints, you cause local heating because 
there is a force whenever the positions deviate. Don't try to measure 
local temperature until the model might make a sensible measurement, 
i.e. after equilibration. That might mean several equilibration phases 
where you relax your position restraints gradually.


The thin nature of the sheet and tube is also somewhat unfavorable for 
the correct function of separate T-coupling groups. See manual 3.4.8, 
particularly final subsection and ref therein.


Mark
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