[gmx-users] 1. better tool: g_hbond or trjorder 2. g_energy: specific heat and compressibility

2007-09-12 Thread Frankie Montenegro
Hi again guys,

Few more questions:

1. I would like to calculate compressibility of the protein+water
system, but separating it into bulk water, hydration water and
protein.  So I need to pick these and compute volumes separately. When
picking hydration water molecules, two tools are mentioned on the
List: trjorder and g_hbond. Which one would you recommend for my task?

2. a)The program g_energy gives output for compressibility. What
method was used for that calculation?
   b) When running g_energy I noticed a particularly crappy number for
the specific heat of SPC water with ffgmx forcefield. It is about
17J/mol.K (should be about 75).
I get similar number with my code using energy fluctuation method.
Do you guys have any suggestions? I cut and paste my equilibration and
production run mdp files.


Equilibration

Thanks,
Frankie
cpp =  /lib/cpp
define  =  -DPOSRES
constraints =  all-bonds
integrator  =  md
tinit   =  0.0
dt  =  0.001; ps !
nsteps  =  1; total 10 ps.
nstcomm =  1
nstxout =  1000
nstvout =  1000
nstfout =  0
nstlog  =  100
nstenergy   =  100
nstlist =  10
ns_type =  grid

comm-mode   =  Angular
nstcomm =  1
comm-grps   =  System

pbc =  xyz

coulombtype =  PME
rvdw=  0.9
rlist   =  0.9
rcoulomb=  0.9
fourierspacing  =  0.12
pme_order   =  4
ewald_rtol  =  1e-5

; Berendsen temperature coupling is on in two groups
Tcoupl  =  berendsen
tc-grps = System
tau_t   =  0.1
ref_t   =  275
; Energy monitoring
energygrps  = System
; Pressure coupling is not on
Pcoupl  =  no
; Random seed for Andersen thermostat
andersen_seed= 815131
; Generate velocites is on at 275 K.
gen_vel =  yes
gen_temp=  275.0
gen_seed=  173529


NVT run

cpp =  /lib/cpp
constraints =  all-bonds
integrator  =  md
dt  =  0.001; ps !
nsteps  =  110  ; total 1.1ns.
nstcomm =  1
nstxout =  1000
nstvout =  1000
nstfout =  0
nstlog  =  1000
nstenergy   =  1000
nstlist =  10
ns_type =  grid

comm-mode   =  Angular
nstcomm =  1
comm-grps   =  System

pbc =  xyz

coulombtype =  PME
rvdw=  0.9
rlist   =  0.9
rcoulomb=  0.9
fourierspacing  =  0.12
pme_order   =  4
ewald_rtol  =  1e-5

; Berendsen temperature coupling is on in two groups
Tcoupl  =  berendsen
tc-grps =  System
tau_t   =  0.1
ref_t   =  275
; Energy monitoring
energygrps  =  System
; Pressure coupling is not on
Pcoupl  =  no
; Generate velocites is on at 275 K.
gen_vel =  yes
gen_temp=  275.0
gen_seed=  173529
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Re: [gmx-users] 1. better tool: g_hbond or trjorder 2. g_energy: specific heat and compressibility

2007-09-12 Thread David van der Spoel

Frankie Montenegro wrote:

Hi again guys,

Few more questions:

1. I would like to calculate compressibility of the protein+water
system, but separating it into bulk water, hydration water and
protein.  So I need to pick these and compute volumes separately. When
picking hydration water molecules, two tools are mentioned on the
List: trjorder and g_hbond. Which one would you recommend for my task?
That sounds difficult because computing volume is difficult. We should 
write a better program for this, but the problem lies in definition: 
where does one water molecule stop and the next begin?




2. a)The program g_energy gives output for compressibility. What
method was used for that calculation?
   b) When running g_energy I noticed a particularly crappy number for
the specific heat of SPC water with ffgmx forcefield. It is about
17J/mol.K (should be about 75).


This is because of Berendsen coupling. It should be better with 
Nose-Hoover or without (using shifted vdw potential as well).



I get similar number with my code using energy fluctuation method.
Do you guys have any suggestions? I cut and paste my equilibration and
production run mdp files.


Equilibration

Thanks,
Frankie
cpp =  /lib/cpp
define  =  -DPOSRES
constraints =  all-bonds
integrator  =  md
tinit   =  0.0
dt  =  0.001; ps !
nsteps  =  1; total 10 ps.
nstcomm =  1
nstxout =  1000
nstvout =  1000
nstfout =  0
nstlog  =  100
nstenergy   =  100
nstlist =  10
ns_type =  grid

comm-mode   =  Angular
nstcomm =  1
comm-grps   =  System

pbc =  xyz

coulombtype =  PME
rvdw=  0.9
rlist   =  0.9
rcoulomb=  0.9
fourierspacing  =  0.12
pme_order   =  4
ewald_rtol  =  1e-5

; Berendsen temperature coupling is on in two groups
Tcoupl  =  berendsen
tc-grps = System
tau_t   =  0.1
ref_t   =  275
; Energy monitoring
energygrps  = System
; Pressure coupling is not on
Pcoupl  =  no
; Random seed for Andersen thermostat
andersen_seed= 815131
; Generate velocites is on at 275 K.
gen_vel =  yes
gen_temp=  275.0
gen_seed=  173529


NVT run

cpp =  /lib/cpp
constraints =  all-bonds
integrator  =  md
dt  =  0.001; ps !
nsteps  =  110  ; total 1.1ns.
nstcomm =  1
nstxout =  1000
nstvout =  1000
nstfout =  0
nstlog  =  1000
nstenergy   =  1000
nstlist =  10
ns_type =  grid

comm-mode   =  Angular
nstcomm =  1
comm-grps   =  System

pbc =  xyz

coulombtype =  PME
rvdw=  0.9
rlist   =  0.9
rcoulomb=  0.9
fourierspacing  =  0.12
pme_order   =  4
ewald_rtol  =  1e-5

; Berendsen temperature coupling is on in two groups
Tcoupl  =  berendsen
tc-grps =  System
tau_t   =  0.1
ref_t   =  275
; Energy monitoring
energygrps  =  System
; Pressure coupling is not on
Pcoupl  =  no
; Generate velocites is on at 275 K.
gen_vel =  yes
gen_temp=  275.0
gen_seed=  173529
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--
David van der Spoel, Ph.D.
Molec. Biophys. group, Dept. of Cell  Molec. Biol., Uppsala University.
Box 596, 75124 Uppsala, Sweden. Phone:  +46184714205. Fax: +4618511755.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]   [EMAIL PROTECTED]   http://folding.bmc.uu.se
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Re: [gmx-users] 1. better tool: g_hbond or trjorder 2. g_energy: specific heat and compressibility

2007-09-12 Thread Mark Abraham

Frankie Montenegro wrote:

Hi again guys,

Few more questions:

1. I would like to calculate compressibility of the protein+water
system, but separating it into bulk water, hydration water and
protein.  So I need to pick these and compute volumes separately. When
picking hydration water molecules, two tools are mentioned on the
List: trjorder and g_hbond. Which one would you recommend for my task?


Don't know, but I'd start by reading the man pages for each of those tools.


2. a)The program g_energy gives output for compressibility. What
method was used for that calculation?


See the manual first.


   b) When running g_energy I noticed a particularly crappy number for
the specific heat of SPC water with ffgmx forcefield. It is about
17J/mol.K (should be about 75).
I get similar number with my code using energy fluctuation method.
Do you guys have any suggestions? I cut and paste my equilibration and
production run mdp files.


Why are you generating velocities post-equilibration?

Mark
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Re: [gmx-users] 1. better tool: g_hbond or trjorder 2. g_energy: specific heat and compressibility

2007-09-12 Thread Frankie Montenegro
On 9/11/07, David van der Spoel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Frankie Montenegro wrote:

 That sounds difficult because computing volume is difficult. We should
 write a better program for this, but the problem lies in definition:
 where does one water molecule stop and the next begin?

 

Thanks. I was hoping to use Voronoi volume for compressibility
calculation. That should ensure that individual partial volumes add up
to the complete volume. So, is any of the two (trjorder vs g_hbond)
better?

 This is because of Berendsen coupling. It should be better with
 Nose-Hoover or without (using shifted vdw potential as well).

I suspected Berendsen coupling might be the problem. Should I expect
anything close to the measured value with Nose-Hoover, but keeping vdw
the way it is?

Regards,
Frankie
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Re: [gmx-users] 1. better tool: g_hbond or trjorder 2. g_energy: specific heat and compressibility

2007-09-12 Thread David van der Spoel

Frankie Montenegro wrote:

On 9/11/07, David van der Spoel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Frankie Montenegro wrote:



That sounds difficult because computing volume is difficult. We should
write a better program for this, but the problem lies in definition:
where does one water molecule stop and the next begin?



Thanks. I was hoping to use Voronoi volume for compressibility
calculation. That should ensure that individual partial volumes add up
to the complete volume. So, is any of the two (trjorder vs g_hbond)
better?
but neither of these programs calculate volumes. for selecting the 
nearest waters trjorder is easiest.



This is because of Berendsen coupling. It should be better with
Nose-Hoover or without (using shifted vdw potential as well).


I suspected Berendsen coupling might be the problem. Should I expect
anything close to the measured value with Nose-Hoover, but keeping vdw
the way it is?


I suggest you try both on pure water. Will take you half an hour.


Regards,
Frankie
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--
David van der Spoel, Ph.D.
Molec. Biophys. group, Dept. of Cell  Molec. Biol., Uppsala University.
Box 596, 75124 Uppsala, Sweden. Phone:  +46184714205. Fax: +4618511755.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]   [EMAIL PROTECTED]   http://folding.bmc.uu.se
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Re: [gmx-users] 1. better tool: g_hbond or trjorder 2. g_energy: specific heat and compressibility

2007-09-12 Thread Frankie Montenegro
On 9/11/07, Mark Abraham [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Frankie Montenegro wrote:
  Hi again guys,
 
  Few more questions:
 
  1. I would like to calculate compressibility of the protein+water
  system, but separating it into bulk water, hydration water and
  protein.  So I need to pick these and compute volumes separately. When
  picking hydration water molecules, two tools are mentioned on the
  List: trjorder and g_hbond. Which one would you recommend for my task?

 Don't know, but I'd start by reading the man pages for each of those tools.


I did that. They both seem OK to me. I am not that experienced with
Gromacs though, which is why I'm asking for suggestion.

  2. a)The program g_energy gives output for compressibility. What
  method was used for that calculation?

 See the manual first.



Did that too. Didn't find anything. I suppose I could go through the code.


 b) When running g_energy I noticed a particularly crappy number for
  the specific heat of SPC water with ffgmx forcefield. It is about
  17J/mol.K (should be about 75).
  I get similar number with my code using energy fluctuation method.
  Do you guys have any suggestions? I cut and paste my equilibration and
  production run mdp files.

 Why are you generating velocities post-equilibration?


Upps! Thanks.
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Re: [gmx-users] 1. better tool: g_hbond or trjorder 2. g_energy: specific heat and compressibility

2007-09-12 Thread Frankie Montenegro
I am not sure what I'm missing here. I just ran an example from
/tutor/water and got even worse
number for specific heat, around 12.5 J/mol.K. Sure, it was with
Berendsen T-coupling, no shifted VdW, but one would still expect
better number.  Anyone?
Thanks, Frankie
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Re: [gmx-users] 1. better tool: g_hbond or trjorder 2. g_energy: specific heat and compressibility

2007-09-12 Thread David van der Spoel

Frankie Montenegro wrote:

I am not sure what I'm missing here. I just ran an example from
/tutor/water and got even worse
number for specific heat, around 12.5 J/mol.K. Sure, it was with
Berendsen T-coupling, no shifted VdW, but one would still expect
better number.  Anyone?


Berendsen t coupling completely screws up the fluctuations. Not a chance 
to come even close.



Thanks, Frankie
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--
David van der Spoel, Ph.D.
Molec. Biophys. group, Dept. of Cell  Molec. Biol., Uppsala University.
Box 596, 75124 Uppsala, Sweden. Phone:  +46184714205. Fax: +4618511755.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]   [EMAIL PROTECTED]   http://folding.bmc.uu.se
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Re: [gmx-users] 1. better tool: g_hbond or trjorder 2. g_energy: specific heat and compressibility

2007-09-12 Thread Frankie Montenegro
OK but I thought your number comes from equipartition theorem, not
fluctuations. I think I remember correctly someone posting the code on
the list a while ago.

Besides, I am also running 3000 SPC waters with Nose-Hoover. After
250ps, the number is identical to the one from the example: 12.5
J/mol.K

F.

On 9/12/07, Frankie Montenegro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I am not sure what I'm missing here. I just ran an example from
 /tutor/water and got even worse
 number for specific heat, around 12.5 J/mol.K. Sure, it was with
 Berendsen T-coupling, no shifted VdW, but one would still expect
 better number.  Anyone?
 Thanks, Frankie

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Re: [gmx-users] 1. better tool: g_hbond or trjorder 2. g_energy: specific heat and compressibility

2007-09-12 Thread David van der Spoel

Frankie Montenegro wrote:

OK but I thought your number comes from equipartition theorem, not
fluctuations. I think I remember correctly someone posting the code on
the list a while ago.

Besides, I am also running 3000 SPC waters with Nose-Hoover. After
250ps, the number is identical to the one from the example: 12.5
J/mol.K


did you use
g_energy -nmol 3000 -ndf 6 ?



F.

On 9/12/07, Frankie Montenegro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

I am not sure what I'm missing here. I just ran an example from
/tutor/water and got even worse
number for specific heat, around 12.5 J/mol.K. Sure, it was with
Berendsen T-coupling, no shifted VdW, but one would still expect
better number.  Anyone?
Thanks, Frankie


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--
David van der Spoel, Ph.D.
Molec. Biophys. group, Dept. of Cell  Molec. Biol., Uppsala University.
Box 596, 75124 Uppsala, Sweden. Phone:  +46184714205. Fax: +4618511755.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]   [EMAIL PROTECTED]   http://folding.bmc.uu.se
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Re: [gmx-users] 1. better tool: g_hbond or trjorder 2. g_energy: specific heat and compressibility

2007-09-12 Thread Frankie Montenegro
Correction: the number is -706.4J/mol.K (negative) . Are you sure 6 is
correct for ndf? I am running  ffgmx force field and all bonds
constrained spc water.
F.


On 9/12/07, Frankie Montenegro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 David,
 I didn't realize what the nmol option does, thanks for the tip. But
 the number went from 12.5 to 706.4 (I'm hiting my forehead on my desk
 as I type this). BTW why ndf 6 and not 3? For rotation?

 On 9/12/07, David van der Spoel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Frankie Montenegro wrote:
   OK but I thought your number comes from equipartition theorem, not
   fluctuations. I think I remember correctly someone posting the code on
   the list a while ago.
  
   Besides, I am also running 3000 SPC waters with Nose-Hoover. After
   250ps, the number is identical to the one from the example: 12.5
   J/mol.K
 
  did you use
  g_energy -nmol 3000 -ndf 6 ?
 
  
   F.
  
   On 9/12/07, Frankie Montenegro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   I am not sure what I'm missing here. I just ran an example from
   /tutor/water and got even worse
   number for specific heat, around 12.5 J/mol.K. Sure, it was with
   Berendsen T-coupling, no shifted VdW, but one would still expect
   better number.  Anyone?
   Thanks, Frankie
  
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  --
  David van der Spoel, Ph.D.
  Molec. Biophys. group, Dept. of Cell  Molec. Biol., Uppsala University.
  Box 596, 75124 Uppsala, Sweden. Phone:  +46184714205. Fax: +4618511755.
  [EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED]   http://folding.bmc.uu.se
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Re: [gmx-users] 1. better tool: g_hbond or trjorder 2. g_energy: specific heat and compressibility

2007-09-12 Thread David van der Spoel

Frankie Montenegro wrote:

Correction: the number is -706.4J/mol.K (negative) . Are you sure 6 is
correct for ndf? I am running  ffgmx force field and all bonds
constrained spc water.

constrained SPC water has 6 dof (3x3 - 3 constraints).

Is the temperature constant?

Maybe you do not need the -nmol flag, otherwise it is time to check the 
g_energy source code maybe.



F.


On 9/12/07, Frankie Montenegro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

David,
I didn't realize what the nmol option does, thanks for the tip. But
the number went from 12.5 to 706.4 (I'm hiting my forehead on my desk
as I type this). BTW why ndf 6 and not 3? For rotation?

On 9/12/07, David van der Spoel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Frankie Montenegro wrote:

OK but I thought your number comes from equipartition theorem, not
fluctuations. I think I remember correctly someone posting the code on
the list a while ago.

Besides, I am also running 3000 SPC waters with Nose-Hoover. After
250ps, the number is identical to the one from the example: 12.5
J/mol.K

did you use
g_energy -nmol 3000 -ndf 6 ?


F.

On 9/12/07, Frankie Montenegro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

I am not sure what I'm missing here. I just ran an example from
/tutor/water and got even worse
number for specific heat, around 12.5 J/mol.K. Sure, it was with
Berendsen T-coupling, no shifted VdW, but one would still expect
better number.  Anyone?
Thanks, Frankie


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--
David van der Spoel, Ph.D.
Molec. Biophys. group, Dept. of Cell  Molec. Biol., Uppsala University.
Box 596, 75124 Uppsala, Sweden. Phone:  +46184714205. Fax: +4618511755.
[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED]   http://folding.bmc.uu.se
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David van der Spoel, Ph.D.
Molec. Biophys. group, Dept. of Cell  Molec. Biol., Uppsala University.
Box 596, 75124 Uppsala, Sweden. Phone:  +46184714205. Fax: +4618511755.
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Re: [gmx-users] 1. better tool: g_hbond or trjorder 2. g_energy: specific heat and compressibility

2007-09-12 Thread Frankie Montenegro
I got a fairly good number using fluctuations formula: cv=3.91J/K.g. I
can't seem to figure out what am I doing wrong with g_energy. If
someone could run /tutor/water/spc216 and get Cv it would be greatly
appreciated.

BTW, I do get interesting numbers for that system when I run
g_energy -nmol 216 -ndf 9; Cv=55J/mol.K (close)
g_energy -nmol 216 -ndf 10; Cv=88J/mol.K (even closer)

Not that I can justify  those ndf values though.
F.

On 9/12/07, David van der Spoel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Frankie Montenegro wrote:
  Correction: the number is -706.4J/mol.K (negative) . Are you sure 6 is
  correct for ndf? I am running  ffgmx force field and all bonds
  constrained spc water.
 constrained SPC water has 6 dof (3x3 - 3 constraints).

 Is the temperature constant?

 Maybe you do not need the -nmol flag, otherwise it is time to check the
 g_energy source code maybe.

  F.
 
 
  On 9/12/07, Frankie Montenegro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  David,
  I didn't realize what the nmol option does, thanks for the tip. But
  the number went from 12.5 to 706.4 (I'm hiting my forehead on my desk
  as I type this). BTW why ndf 6 and not 3? For rotation?
 
  On 9/12/07, David van der Spoel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Frankie Montenegro wrote:
  OK but I thought your number comes from equipartition theorem, not
  fluctuations. I think I remember correctly someone posting the code on
  the list a while ago.
 
  Besides, I am also running 3000 SPC waters with Nose-Hoover. After
  250ps, the number is identical to the one from the example: 12.5
  J/mol.K
  did you use
  g_energy -nmol 3000 -ndf 6 ?
 
  F.
 
  On 9/12/07, Frankie Montenegro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  I am not sure what I'm missing here. I just ran an example from
  /tutor/water and got even worse
  number for specific heat, around 12.5 J/mol.K. Sure, it was with
  Berendsen T-coupling, no shifted VdW, but one would still expect
  better number.  Anyone?
  Thanks, Frankie
 
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  Molec. Biophys. group, Dept. of Cell  Molec. Biol., Uppsala University.
  Box 596, 75124 Uppsala, Sweden. Phone:  +46184714205. Fax: +4618511755.
  [EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED]   http://folding.bmc.uu.se
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 --
 David van der Spoel, Ph.D.
 Molec. Biophys. group, Dept. of Cell  Molec. Biol., Uppsala University.
 Box 596, 75124 Uppsala, Sweden. Phone:  +46184714205. Fax: +4618511755.
 [EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED]   http://folding.bmc.uu.se
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