Re: [gmx-users] Dummies usage doubts

[Jones de Andrade]

Hi all.

Ok, I found the erors. One small in the topology, and another huge in the
.gro formating.

I'll deal with a few other molecules in the next days, and hopefully I'll be
able to make a small contribution to the programs library with a little
"add_dummies" program.

Will test it a bit more, though.

Anyway, thanks a lot everybody for all help!  :)

Sincerally yours,

Jones

On 10/11/07, Jones de Andrade <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Hi all.
>
> Just informing, I tried a single molecule, and the topology with all
> dummies minimize (despite taking loads of steps bfgs steps).
>
> The interesting thing is that the distance between atom 6 and 17 at
> beggining reads 3.1 angstrons, and at the end read 2.9 angstrons.
>
> Why it's going bad with many molecules or even single molecule MD, God?
>
> Thanks a lot everybody in advance,
>
> Sincerally yours,
>
> Jones
>
> On 10/11/07, Jones de Andrade <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Prof. David.
> >
> > Yes, it a self created topology. This one is based on another self
> > created topology that runs perfectly for cyclohexane. It was adapted to
> > include the dummy atoms.
> >
> > I guess there is something wrong in the definition of the dummies in the
> > topology. But I have no clue where it is. Can you provide me some clue on
> > this?
> >
> > I'll run a single molecule now.
> >
> > Thanks a lot in advance,
> >
> > Sincerally yours,
> >
> > Jones
> >
> > On 10/11/07, David van der Spoel < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > > Jones de Andrade wrote:
> > > > Hi Prof. David.
> > > >
> > > > What details do you mean? Actual topology files are attached.
> > > Anything else?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks a lot in advance!
> > > >
> > > > Sincerally yours,
> > > >
> > > > Jones
> > > >
> > > There is something wrong in the topology, youäll have to debug it
> > > yourself...
> > >
> > > --
> > > David van der Spoel, Ph.D.
> > > Molec. Biophys. group, Dept. of Cell & Molec. Biol., Uppsala
> > > University.
> > > Box 596, 75124 Uppsala, Sweden. Phone:  +46184714205. Fax:
> > > +4618511755.
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]   http://folding.bmc.uu.se
> > > ___
> > > gmx-users mailing listgmx-users@gromacs.org
> > > http://www.gromacs.org/mailman/listinfo/gmx-users
> > > Please search the archive at http://www.gromacs.org/search before
> > > posting!
> > > Please don't post (un)subscribe requests to the list. Use the
> > > www interface or send it to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Can't post? Read http://www.gromacs.org/mailing_lists/users.php
> > >
> >
> >
>
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Re: [gmx-users] Dummies usage doubts

[Jones de Andrade]

Hi all.

Just informing, I tried a single molecule, and the topology with all dummies
minimize (despite taking loads of steps bfgs steps).

The interesting thing is that the distance between atom 6 and 17 at
beggining reads 3.1 angstrons, and at the end read 2.9 angstrons.

Why it's going bad with many molecules or even single molecule MD, God?

Thanks a lot everybody in advance,

Sincerally yours,

Jones

On 10/11/07, Jones de Andrade <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Hi Prof. David.
>
> Yes, it a self created topology. This one is based on another self created
> topology that runs perfectly for cyclohexane. It was adapted to include the
> dummy atoms.
>
> I guess there is something wrong in the definition of the dummies in the
> topology. But I have no clue where it is. Can you provide me some clue on
> this?
>
> I'll run a single molecule now.
>
> Thanks a lot in advance,
>
> Sincerally yours,
>
> Jones
>
> On 10/11/07, David van der Spoel < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > Jones de Andrade wrote:
> > > Hi Prof. David.
> > >
> > > What details do you mean? Actual topology files are attached. Anything
> > else?
> > >
> > > Thanks a lot in advance!
> > >
> > > Sincerally yours,
> > >
> > > Jones
> > >
> > There is something wrong in the topology, youäll have to debug it
> > yourself...
> >
> > --
> > David van der Spoel, Ph.D.
> > Molec. Biophys. group, Dept. of Cell & Molec. Biol., Uppsala University.
> > Box 596, 75124 Uppsala, Sweden. Phone:  +46184714205. Fax: +4618511755.
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED]   http://folding.bmc.uu.se
> > ___
> > gmx-users mailing listgmx-users@gromacs.org
> > http://www.gromacs.org/mailman/listinfo/gmx-users
> > Please search the archive at http://www.gromacs.org/search before
> > posting!
> > Please don't post (un)subscribe requests to the list. Use the
> > www interface or send it to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Can't post? Read http://www.gromacs.org/mailing_lists/users.php
> >
>
>
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Re: [gmx-users] Dummies usage doubts

[David van der Spoel]

Jones de Andrade wrote:

Hi Prof. David.

Yes, it a self created topology. This one is based on another self 
created topology that runs perfectly for cyclohexane. It was adapted to 
include the dummy atoms.


I guess there is something wrong in the definition of the dummies in the 
topology. But I have no clue where it is. Can you provide me some clue 
on this?


no time. but start by adding one dummy at a time run EM and check 
whether they end up in the same place.




I'll run a single molecule now.

Thanks a lot in advance,

Sincerally yours,

Jones

On 10/11/07, *David van der Spoel* < [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> wrote:


Jones de Andrade wrote:
 > Hi Prof. David.
 >
 > What details do you mean? Actual topology files are attached.
Anything else?
 >
 > Thanks a lot in advance!
 >
 > Sincerally yours,
 >
 > Jones
 >
There is something wrong in the topology, youäll have to debug it
yourself...

--
David van der Spoel, Ph.D.
Molec. Biophys. group, Dept. of Cell & Molec. Biol., Uppsala University.
Box 596, 75124 Uppsala, Sweden. Phone:  +46184714205. Fax: +4618511755.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
   http://folding.bmc.uu.se
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--
David van der Spoel, Ph.D.
Molec. Biophys. group, Dept. of Cell & Molec. Biol., Uppsala University.
Box 596, 75124 Uppsala, Sweden. Phone:  +46184714205. Fax: +4618511755.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]   [EMAIL PROTECTED]   http://folding.bmc.uu.se
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Re: [gmx-users] Dummies usage doubts

[Jones de Andrade]

Hi Prof. David.

Yes, it a self created topology. This one is based on another self created
topology that runs perfectly for cyclohexane. It was adapted to include the
dummy atoms.

I guess there is something wrong in the definition of the dummies in the
topology. But I have no clue where it is. Can you provide me some clue on
this?

I'll run a single molecule now.

Thanks a lot in advance,

Sincerally yours,

Jones

On 10/11/07, David van der Spoel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Jones de Andrade wrote:
> > Hi Prof. David.
> >
> > What details do you mean? Actual topology files are attached. Anything
> else?
> >
> > Thanks a lot in advance!
> >
> > Sincerally yours,
> >
> > Jones
> >
> There is something wrong in the topology, youäll have to debug it
> yourself...
>
> --
> David van der Spoel, Ph.D.
> Molec. Biophys. group, Dept. of Cell & Molec. Biol., Uppsala University.
> Box 596, 75124 Uppsala, Sweden. Phone:  +46184714205. Fax: +4618511755.
> [EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED]   http://folding.bmc.uu.se
> ___
> gmx-users mailing listgmx-users@gromacs.org
> http://www.gromacs.org/mailman/listinfo/gmx-users
> Please search the archive at http://www.gromacs.org/search before posting!
> Please don't post (un)subscribe requests to the list. Use the
> www interface or send it to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Can't post? Read http://www.gromacs.org/mailing_lists/users.php
>
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Re: [gmx-users] Dummies usage doubts

[David van der Spoel]

Jones de Andrade wrote:

Hi Prof. David.

What details do you mean? Actual topology files are attached. Anything else?

Thanks a lot in advance!

Sincerally yours,

Jones

There is something wrong in the topology, youäll have to debug it 
yourself...


--
David van der Spoel, Ph.D.
Molec. Biophys. group, Dept. of Cell & Molec. Biol., Uppsala University.
Box 596, 75124 Uppsala, Sweden. Phone:  +46184714205. Fax: +4618511755.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]   [EMAIL PROTECTED]   http://folding.bmc.uu.se
___
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http://www.gromacs.org/mailman/listinfo/gmx-users
Please search the archive at http://www.gromacs.org/search before posting!
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Re: [gmx-users] Dummies usage doubts

[David van der Spoel]

Jones de Andrade wrote:

Hi Prof. David.

What details do you mean? Actual topology files are attached. Anything else?


Is this a topology from pd2gmx or did you write it yourself?
Please check chapter 5 of the manual.

You want to check exclusions ánd start with one molecule.


Thanks a lot in advance!

Sincerally yours,

Jones

On 10/11/07, * David van der Spoel* <[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> wrote:


Jones de Andrade wrote:
 > Thanks Prof. David.
 >
 > I've done all that now, but at the moment I'm locked getting lots
of the
 > "lovelly" error:
 >
 > Warning: 1-4 interaction between 7 and 16 at distance 4.302 which is
 > larger than the 1-4 table size 1.000 nm
 > These are ignored for the rest of the simulation
 > This usually means your system is exploding,
 > if not, you should increase table-extension in your mdp file
 > step 0Segmentation fault

please give more details...


 >
 > I've visually checked the .gro file, and the atoms mentioned are not
 > from start at such crazy distances. I've included extra exclusions
 > between the virtual sites and the atoms that are at "one" and "two"
 > "bonds" away.
 >
 > Does it means I should include also the 1-4 in the exclusions or pair
 > sections? Sorry, never dealt with dummy sites before this. I thought
 > using a pre-equilibrated box with a different model would at
least avoid
 > explosion problems, so or I missing something, of this assumption was
 > completelly wrong.
 >
 > Thanks a lot in advance,
 >
 > Sincerally yours
 >
 > Jones
 >
 > On 10/11/07, *David van der Spoel* <[EMAIL PROTECTED]

 > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>> wrote:
 >
 > Jones de Andrade wrote:
 >  > Hi all.
 >  >
 >  > Well, I'm having a bit of trouble here because the work has
 > decided to
 >  > go in the direction of something I've never used before
with gromacs:
 >  > dummy atoms (or now "virtual sites").
 >
 > I assume this is not for a protein, in which case pdb2gmx
does it
 > for you.
 >  >
 >  > I've got at least three questions in order to use them:
 >  >
 >  > 1 - does the virtual sites need to be included in the .gro
files in
 >  > order to make a simulation run?
 >  >
 > Yes.
 >
 >  > 2 - do I need to include them in the "exclusion list"?
 > It depends, but usually yes.
 >
 >  >
 >  > 3 - do I need to include them in the "atoms" section?
 > Yes.
 >
 >  >
 >  >
 >  > Thanks a lot in advance for any help anyone can provide in
these
 >  > subjects. ;)
 > Check the mannual too. Chapter 5. An dtopologies for TIP4P,
TIP5P etc.
 >
 >
 >  >
 >  > Sincerally yours,
 >  >
 >  > Jones
 >  >
 >  >
 >  >
 >


 >
 >  >
 >  > ___
 >  > gmx-users mailing listgmx-users@gromacs.org

 > >
 >  > http://www.gromacs.org/mailman/listinfo/gmx-users
 >  > Please search the archive at http://www.gromacs.org/search
before
 > posting!
 >  > Please don't post (un)subscribe requests to the list. Use the
 >  > www interface or send it to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 > >.
 >  > Can't post? Read
http://www.gromacs.org/mailing_lists/users.php
 > < http://www.gromacs.org/mailing_lists/users.php>
 >
 >
 > --
 > David.
 >


 > David van der Spoel, PhD, Assoc. Prof., Molecular Biophysics
group,
 > Dept. of Cell and Molecular Biology, Uppsala University.
 > Husargatan 3, Box 596,  75124 Uppsala, Sweden
 > phone:  46 18 471 4205  fax: 46 18 511 755
 > [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 > >[EMAIL PROTECTED]

 > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>  
http://folding.bmc.uu.se
 >


 > ___
 > gmx-users mailing list gmx-users@gromacs.org

 > >
 > http://www.gromacs.org/mailman/listinfo/gmx-users
  

Re: [gmx-users] Dummies usage doubts

[Jones de Andrade]

Hi Prof. David.

What details do you mean? Actual topology files are attached. Anything else?

Thanks a lot in advance!

Sincerally yours,

Jones

On 10/11/07, David van der Spoel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Jones de Andrade wrote:
> > Thanks Prof. David.
> >
> > I've done all that now, but at the moment I'm locked getting lots of the
> > "lovelly" error:
> >
> > Warning: 1-4 interaction between 7 and 16 at distance 4.302 which is
> > larger than the 1-4 table size 1.000 nm
> > These are ignored for the rest of the simulation
> > This usually means your system is exploding,
> > if not, you should increase table-extension in your mdp file
> > step 0Segmentation fault
>
> please give more details...
>
>
> >
> > I've visually checked the .gro file, and the atoms mentioned are not
> > from start at such crazy distances. I've included extra exclusions
> > between the virtual sites and the atoms that are at "one" and "two"
> > "bonds" away.
> >
> > Does it means I should include also the 1-4 in the exclusions or pair
> > sections? Sorry, never dealt with dummy sites before this. I thought
> > using a pre-equilibrated box with a different model would at least avoid
> > explosion problems, so or I missing something, of this assumption was
> > completelly wrong.
> >
> > Thanks a lot in advance,
> >
> > Sincerally yours
> >
> > Jones
> >
> > On 10/11/07, *David van der Spoel* <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > wrote:
> >
> > Jones de Andrade wrote:
> >  > Hi all.
> >  >
> >  > Well, I'm having a bit of trouble here because the work has
> > decided to
> >  > go in the direction of something I've never used before with
> gromacs:
> >  > dummy atoms (or now "virtual sites").
> >
> > I assume this is not for a protein, in which case pdb2gmx does it
> > for you.
> >  >
> >  > I've got at least three questions in order to use them:
> >  >
> >  > 1 - does the virtual sites need to be included in the .gro files
> in
> >  > order to make a simulation run?
> >  >
> > Yes.
> >
> >  > 2 - do I need to include them in the "exclusion list"?
> > It depends, but usually yes.
> >
> >  >
> >  > 3 - do I need to include them in the "atoms" section?
> > Yes.
> >
> >  >
> >  >
> >  > Thanks a lot in advance for any help anyone can provide in these
> >  > subjects. ;)
> > Check the mannual too. Chapter 5. An dtopologies for TIP4P, TIP5P
> etc.
> >
> >
> >  >
> >  > Sincerally yours,
> >  >
> >  > Jones
> >  >
> >  >
> >  >
> >
> 
> >
> >  >
> >  > ___
> >  > gmx-users mailing listgmx-users@gromacs.org
> > 
> >  > http://www.gromacs.org/mailman/listinfo/gmx-users
> >  > Please search the archive at http://www.gromacs.org/search before
> > posting!
> >  > Please don't post (un)subscribe requests to the list. Use the
> >  > www interface or send it to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > .
> >  > Can't post? Read http://www.gromacs.org/mailing_lists/users.php
> > 
> >
> >
> > --
> > David.
> >
> 
> > David van der Spoel, PhD, Assoc. Prof., Molecular Biophysics group,
> > Dept. of Cell and Molecular Biology, Uppsala University.
> > Husargatan 3, Box 596,  75124 Uppsala, Sweden
> > phone:  46 18 471 4205  fax: 46 18 511 755
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >    http://folding.bmc.uu.se
> >
> 
> > ___
> > gmx-users mailing list gmx-users@gromacs.org
> > 
> > http://www.gromacs.org/mailman/listinfo/gmx-users
> > Please search the archive at http://www.gromacs.org/search before
> > posting!
> > Please don't post (un)subscribe requests to the list. Use the
> > www interface or send it to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > .
> > Can't post? Read http://www.gromacs.org/mailing_lists/users.php
> >
> >
> >
> > 
> >
> > ___
> > gmx-users mailing listgmx-users@gromacs.org
> > http://www.gromacs.org/mailman/listinfo/gmx-users
> > Please search the archive at http://www.gromacs.org/search before
> posting!
> > Please don't post (un)subscribe requests to the list. Use the
> > www interface or send it to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Can't post? Read http://www.gromacs.org/mailing_lists/users.php
>
>
> --
> David van der Spoel, Ph.D.
> Molec. Biophys. group,

Re: [gmx-users] Dummies usage doubts

[David van der Spoel]

Jones de Andrade wrote:

Thanks Prof. David.

I've done all that now, but at the moment I'm locked getting lots of the 
"lovelly" error:


Warning: 1-4 interaction between 7 and 16 at distance 4.302 which is 
larger than the 1-4 table size 1.000 nm

These are ignored for the rest of the simulation
This usually means your system is exploding,
if not, you should increase table-extension in your mdp file
step 0Segmentation fault


please give more details...




I've visually checked the .gro file, and the atoms mentioned are not 
from start at such crazy distances. I've included extra exclusions 
between the virtual sites and the atoms that are at "one" and "two" 
"bonds" away.


Does it means I should include also the 1-4 in the exclusions or pair 
sections? Sorry, never dealt with dummy sites before this. I thought 
using a pre-equilibrated box with a different model would at least avoid 
explosion problems, so or I missing something, of this assumption was 
completelly wrong.


Thanks a lot in advance,

Sincerally yours

Jones

On 10/11/07, *David van der Spoel* <[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> wrote:


Jones de Andrade wrote:
 > Hi all.
 >
 > Well, I'm having a bit of trouble here because the work has
decided to
 > go in the direction of something I've never used before with gromacs:
 > dummy atoms (or now "virtual sites").

I assume this is not for a protein, in which case pdb2gmx does it
for you.
 >
 > I've got at least three questions in order to use them:
 >
 > 1 - does the virtual sites need to be included in the .gro files in
 > order to make a simulation run?
 >
Yes.

 > 2 - do I need to include them in the "exclusion list"?
It depends, but usually yes.

 >
 > 3 - do I need to include them in the "atoms" section?
Yes.

 >
 >
 > Thanks a lot in advance for any help anyone can provide in these
 > subjects. ;)
Check the mannual too. Chapter 5. An dtopologies for TIP4P, TIP5P etc.


 >
 > Sincerally yours,
 >
 > Jones
 >
 >
 >


 >
 > ___
 > gmx-users mailing listgmx-users@gromacs.org

 > http://www.gromacs.org/mailman/listinfo/gmx-users
 > Please search the archive at http://www.gromacs.org/search before
posting!
 > Please don't post (un)subscribe requests to the list. Use the
 > www interface or send it to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
.
 > Can't post? Read http://www.gromacs.org/mailing_lists/users.php



--
David.

David van der Spoel, PhD, Assoc. Prof., Molecular Biophysics group,
Dept. of Cell and Molecular Biology, Uppsala University.
Husargatan 3, Box 596,  75124 Uppsala, Sweden
phone:  46 18 471 4205  fax: 46 18 511 755
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
   http://folding.bmc.uu.se

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--
David van der Spoel, Ph.D.
Molec. Biophys. group, Dept. of Cell & Molec. Biol., Uppsala University.
Box 596, 75124 Uppsala, Sweden. Phone:  +46184714205. Fax: +4618511755.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]   [EMAIL PROTECTED]   http://folding.bmc.uu.se
___
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Re: [gmx-users] Dummies usage doubts

[Jones de Andrade]

Thanks Prof. David.

I've done all that now, but at the moment I'm locked getting lots of the
"lovelly" error:

Warning: 1-4 interaction between 7 and 16 at distance 4.302 which is larger
than the 1-4 table size 1.000 nm
These are ignored for the rest of the simulation
This usually means your system is exploding,
if not, you should increase table-extension in your mdp file
step 0Segmentation fault

I've visually checked the .gro file, and the atoms mentioned are not from
start at such crazy distances. I've included extra exclusions between the
virtual sites and the atoms that are at "one" and "two" "bonds" away.

Does it means I should include also the 1-4 in the exclusions or pair
sections? Sorry, never dealt with dummy sites before this. I thought using a
pre-equilibrated box with a different model would at least avoid explosion
problems, so or I missing something, of this assumption was completelly
wrong.

Thanks a lot in advance,

Sincerally yours

Jones

On 10/11/07, David van der Spoel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Jones de Andrade wrote:
> > Hi all.
> >
> > Well, I'm having a bit of trouble here because the work has decided to
> > go in the direction of something I've never used before with gromacs:
> > dummy atoms (or now "virtual sites").
>
> I assume this is not for a protein, in which case pdb2gmx does it for you.
> >
> > I've got at least three questions in order to use them:
> >
> > 1 - does the virtual sites need to be included in the .gro files in
> > order to make a simulation run?
> >
> Yes.
>
> > 2 - do I need to include them in the "exclusion list"?
> It depends, but usually yes.
>
> >
> > 3 - do I need to include them in the "atoms" section?
> Yes.
>
> >
> >
> > Thanks a lot in advance for any help anyone can provide in these
> > subjects. ;)
> Check the mannual too. Chapter 5. An dtopologies for TIP4P, TIP5P etc.
>
>
> >
> > Sincerally yours,
> >
> > Jones
> >
> >
> > 
> >
> > ___
> > gmx-users mailing listgmx-users@gromacs.org
> > http://www.gromacs.org/mailman/listinfo/gmx-users
> > Please search the archive at http://www.gromacs.org/search before
> posting!
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> > www interface or send it to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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>
>
> --
> David.
> 
> David van der Spoel, PhD, Assoc. Prof., Molecular Biophysics group,
> Dept. of Cell and Molecular Biology, Uppsala University.
> Husargatan 3, Box 596,  75124 Uppsala, Sweden
> phone:  46 18 471 4205  fax: 46 18 511 755
> [EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED]   http://folding.bmc.uu.se
> 
> ___
> gmx-users mailing listgmx-users@gromacs.org
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Re: [gmx-users] Dummies usage doubts

[David van der Spoel]

Jones de Andrade wrote:

Hi all.

Well, I'm having a bit of trouble here because the work has decided to 
go in the direction of something I've never used before with gromacs: 
dummy atoms (or now "virtual sites").


I assume this is not for a protein, in which case pdb2gmx does it for you.


I've got at least three questions in order to use them:

1 - does the virtual sites need to be included in the .gro files in 
order to make a simulation run?



Yes.


2 - do I need to include them in the "exclusion list"?

It depends, but usually yes.



3 - do I need to include them in the "atoms" section?

Yes.




Thanks a lot in advance for any help anyone can provide in these 
subjects. ;)

Check the mannual too. Chapter 5. An dtopologies for TIP4P, TIP5P etc.




Sincerally yours,

Jones




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--
David.

David van der Spoel, PhD, Assoc. Prof., Molecular Biophysics group,
Dept. of Cell and Molecular Biology, Uppsala University.
Husargatan 3, Box 596,  75124 Uppsala, Sweden
phone:  46 18 471 4205  fax: 46 18 511 755
[EMAIL PROTECTED]   [EMAIL PROTECTED]   http://folding.bmc.uu.se

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[gmx-users] Dummies usage doubts

[Jones de Andrade]

Hi all.

Well, I'm having a bit of trouble here because the work has decided to go in
the direction of something I've never used before with gromacs: dummy atoms
(or now "virtual sites").

I've got at least three questions in order to use them:

1 - does the virtual sites need to be included in the .gro files in order to
make a simulation run?

2 - do I need to include them in the "exclusion list"?

3 - do I need to include them in the "atoms" section?


Thanks a lot in advance for any help anyone can provide in these subjects.
;)

Sincerally yours,

Jones
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