Re: [gmx-users] How to add another electrostatic summation methodin Gromacs

2009-03-27 Thread Mark Abraham

Shuangxing Dai wrote:
Yes, but I still cannot write out the pair interaction for each ion 
since there is cut off. With cut off, I need to assign a averge value of 
the last two constants to each ion. But I cannot get the total number of 
neighbours in a cut off distance in advance. So I cannot use the user 
defined part to do my eletrostatic summation.


If N is the number of neighbours inside the cutoff distance, then you 
might be right. If so, then I don't understand why the inner summation 
constrains "j != i" and "r_ij < R_c" since the latter is implied by 
formation of the set over which the summations are occurring.


If N is the total number of ions then the last few terms are all 
system-wide constants.


I also don't understand why the limit expression exists. For any values 
actually used in a simulation, that expression is just a constant.


I compared carefully with Wolf summation with the Ewald summation, the 
differences are:

1. There is no reciprocal term in Wolf.
2.Instead, the Wolf assums that the ions out side the truncations sphere 
is exactly located at the sphere. That is how the extra two terms come out.
3. Wolf uses cut-off, while Ewald can only deal with peoriodical 
boundary conditions cases.
So I need to add a similiar summation like Ewald to treat with the 
long-range electrostatic force, not a non-bonded interaction. Then which 
parts needs to be read and modified?


I don't understand your conclusion, here.

Mark
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Re: [gmx-users] How to add another electrostatic summation methodin Gromacs

2009-03-27 Thread Shuangxing Dai
Yes, but I still cannot write out the pair interaction for each ion since 
there is cut off. With cut off, I need to assign a averge value of the last 
two constants to each ion. But I cannot get the total number of neighbours 
in a cut off distance in advance. So I cannot use the user defined part to 
do my eletrostatic summation.


I compared carefully with Wolf summation with the Ewald summation, the 
differences are:

1. There is no reciprocal term in Wolf.
2.Instead, the Wolf assums that the ions out side the truncations sphere is 
exactly located at the sphere. That is how the extra two terms come out.
3. Wolf uses cut-off, while Ewald can only deal with peoriodical boundary 
conditions cases.
So I need to add a similiar summation like Ewald to treat with the 
long-range electrostatic force, not a non-bonded interaction. Then which 
parts needs to be read and modified?

Thank you for your kindly help.
Shuangxing Dai

- Original Message - 
From: "Mark Abraham" 

To: "Discussion list for GROMACS users" 
Sent: 26 March, 2009 4:56 PM
Subject: Re: [gmx-users] How to add another electrostatic summation methodin 
Gromacs




Shuangxing Dai wrote:
Thank you for your help. I attached the page of the form of potential. 
The equation (5.13) gives all the potential energy of neighbours of one 
ion in a truncation sphere.  Rc is cut-off. Since this potential depends 
on all the neighbours in a cut-off distance, I cannot give the pair 
interaction because in this method, only the total potential energy of 
one ion maks sense. In Ewald summation, both the real space and 
reciprocal space summation can be written as the summation of pair 
potential. But in wolf, I cannot do that.


It looks separable into a double sum over atom pairs from within a cutoff, 
since the value of that limit is constant.


Since I cannot use Ewald without peoriodical boundary conditions while 
this Wolf method can, so I cannot simply use Gromacs to do my simulation. 
The question is which files needed to be modified if I want to add a new 
one? Is there any direct way? Or I should read all the whole code?


You can start by reading the kernel code generated by mknb during the make 
process and found in src/gmxlib/nonbonded/nb_kernel. If you play with the 
flags to mknb you can get comments embedded in the C files. Find the one 
that does Ewald without table lookups and consider how you'd need to 
change it to suit your needs.


Mark
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