Re: [gmx-users] NVE of water

2010-03-01 Thread Ran Friedman
Hi Andrea,
Did you use double precision? Also, I'd try a lower dt (say 1fs) and
shake tolerance (maybe 1E-8).
Good luck,
Ran

Andrea wrote:
 Dear users,
  
 for test purposes in order to set up a bigger system, I try to run NVE
 simulations of SPC water, but the energy increases very rapidely. My
 guess is that the cutoffs I use are not good for water. I that the
 case ( I would be grateful for a good reference for suitable SPC water
 parameters) or do I miss something else?
 My parameter file for the NVE is:
  
 title= NVE
 cpp  = /lib/cpp
 integrator   = md
 dt   = 0.002   ; ps ! = 2 fs
 nsteps   = 5   ; total 100 ps
 nstxout  = 5000
 nstvout  = 5000
 nstxtcout= 0
 nstlog   = 5000
 nstenergy= 5000
 nstlist  = 10
 ns_type  = grid
 rlist= 1.1

 unconstrained-start  = yes
 constraints  = all-bonds
 constraint_algorithm = shake
 shake_tol= 0.0001
 ;VdW
 vdwtype  = Switch
 rvdw = 1.0  ; rvdw+ (0.1:0.3)=  rlist
 rvdw_switch  = 0.9
 gen_vel  = no   ; yes
 gen_temp = 300
 gen_seed = -1
 ;Temperature coupling
 tc_grps  = system
 tcoupl   = no   ;nose-hoover
 tau_t= 0.1
 ref_t= 300
 ;Pressure coupling
 pcoupl   = no
 optimize_fft = yes
  
 Any suggesions are really welcome.
  
 Thank you.
  
 Regards,
 Andrea Muntean


-- 
--
Ran Friedman
Postdoctoral Fellow
Computational Structural Biology Group (A. Caflisch)
Department of Biochemistry
University of Zurich
Winterthurerstrasse 190
CH-8057 Zurich, Switzerland
Tel. +41-44-639
Email: r.fried...@bioc.uzh.ch
Skype: ran.friedman
--

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RE: [gmx-users] NVE of water

2010-03-01 Thread Berk Hess

Hi,

Shake is not relevant for water and also a time step of 2 fs should be fine.
The cut-off's are the problem. You have a buffer size of 0.1 nm,
which is already smaller than 2 times the distance from the center of geometry
of a water molecule to a hydrogen. You need some additional distance
for water diffusion. I would use a buffer of 0.25 to 0.3 nm.
You don't list you coulombtype setting. Use pme (or if you want perfect energy
conservation: pme-switch), you can also use reaction-field-zero if you really 
don't
want to use PME.
Then use nstlist=-1, run a short simulation and check in at the end of your log 
file
that the neighbor list lifetime is somewhere between 5 and 20 steps.

We should have a wiki entry for such details. Maybe there is one, but I was too 
lazy
to check or make one.

Berk

 Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 09:16:36 +0100
 From: r.fried...@bioc.uzh.ch
 To: gmx-users@gromacs.org
 Subject: Re: [gmx-users] NVE of water
 
 Hi Andrea,
 Did you use double precision? Also, I'd try a lower dt (say 1fs) and
 shake tolerance (maybe 1E-8).
 Good luck,
 Ran
 
 Andrea wrote:
  Dear users,
   
  for test purposes in order to set up a bigger system, I try to run NVE
  simulations of SPC water, but the energy increases very rapidely. My
  guess is that the cutoffs I use are not good for water. I that the
  case ( I would be grateful for a good reference for suitable SPC water
  parameters) or do I miss something else?
  My parameter file for the NVE is:
   
  title= NVE
  cpp  = /lib/cpp
  integrator   = md
  dt   = 0.002   ; ps ! = 2 fs
  nsteps   = 5   ; total 100 ps
  nstxout  = 5000
  nstvout  = 5000
  nstxtcout= 0
  nstlog   = 5000
  nstenergy= 5000
  nstlist  = 10
  ns_type  = grid
  rlist= 1.1
 
  unconstrained-start  = yes
  constraints  = all-bonds
  constraint_algorithm = shake
  shake_tol= 0.0001
  ;VdW
  vdwtype  = Switch
  rvdw = 1.0  ; rvdw+ (0.1:0.3)=  rlist
  rvdw_switch  = 0.9
  gen_vel  = no   ; yes
  gen_temp = 300
  gen_seed = -1
  ;Temperature coupling
  tc_grps  = system
  tcoupl   = no   ;nose-hoover
  tau_t= 0.1
  ref_t= 300
  ;Pressure coupling
  pcoupl   = no
  optimize_fft = yes
   
  Any suggesions are really welcome.
   
  Thank you.
   
  Regards,
  Andrea Muntean
 
 
 -- 
 --
 Ran Friedman
 Postdoctoral Fellow
 Computational Structural Biology Group (A. Caflisch)
 Department of Biochemistry
 University of Zurich
 Winterthurerstrasse 190
 CH-8057 Zurich, Switzerland
 Tel. +41-44-639
 Email: r.fried...@bioc.uzh.ch
 Skype: ran.friedman
 --
 
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Re: [gmx-users] NVE of water

2010-03-01 Thread Andrea
Thank you for your hints. I'll give it a try right now.

Regards,
Andrea

2010/3/1 Berk Hess g...@hotmail.com

 Hi,

 Shake is not relevant for water and also a time step of 2 fs should be
 fine.
 The cut-off's are the problem. You have a buffer size of 0.1 nm,
 which is already smaller than 2 times the distance from the center of
 geometry
 of a water molecule to a hydrogen. You need some additional distance
 for water diffusion. I would use a buffer of 0.25 to 0.3 nm.
 You don't list you coulombtype setting. Use pme (or if you want perfect
 energy
 conservation: pme-switch), you can also use reaction-field-zero if you
 really don't
 want to use PME.
 Then use nstlist=-1, run a short simulation and check in at the end of your
 log file
 that the neighbor list lifetime is somewhere between 5 and 20 steps.

 We should have a wiki entry for such details. Maybe there is one, but I was
 too lazy
 to check or make one.

 Berk

  Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 09:16:36 +0100
  From: r.fried...@bioc.uzh.ch
  To: gmx-users@gromacs.org
  Subject: Re: [gmx-users] NVE of water

 
  Hi Andrea,
  Did you use double precision? Also, I'd try a lower dt (say 1fs) and
  shake tolerance (maybe 1E-8).
  Good luck,
  Ran
 
  Andrea wrote:
   Dear users,
  
   for test purposes in order to set up a bigger system, I try to run NVE
   simulations of SPC water, but the energy increases very rapidely. My
   guess is that the cutoffs I use are not good for water. I that the
   case ( I would be grateful for a good reference for suitable SPC water
   parameters) or do I miss something else?
   My parameter file for the NVE is:
  
   title = NVE
   cpp = /lib/cpp
   integrator = md
   dt = 0.002 ; ps ! = 2 fs
   nsteps = 5 ; total 100 ps
   nstxout = 5000
   nstvout = 5000
   nstxtcout = 0
   nstlog = 5000
   nstenergy = 5000
   nstlist = 10
   ns_type = grid
   rlist = 1.1
  
   unconstrained-start = yes
   constraints = all-bonds
   constraint_algorithm = shake
   shake_tol = 0.0001
   ;VdW
   vdwtype = Switch
   rvdw = 1.0 ; rvdw+ (0.1:0.3)= rlist
   rvdw_switch = 0.9
   gen_vel = no ; yes
   gen_temp = 300
   gen_seed = -1
   ;Temperature coupling
   tc_grps = system
   tcoupl = no ;nose-hoover
   tau_t = 0.1
   ref_t = 300
   ;Pressure coupling
   pcoupl = no
   optimize_fft = yes
  
   Any suggesions are really welcome.
  
   Thank you.
  
   Regards,
   Andrea Muntean
 
 
  --
  --
  Ran Friedman
  Postdoctoral Fellow
  Computational Structural Biology Group (A. Caflisch)
  Department of Biochemistry
  University of Zurich
  Winterthurerstrasse 190
  CH-8057 Zurich, Switzerland
  Tel. +41-44-639
  Email: r.fried...@bioc.uzh.ch
  Skype: ran.friedman
  --
 
  --
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Re: [gmx-users] NVE of water

2010-03-01 Thread Justin A. Lemkul



Berk Hess wrote:

Hi,

Shake is not relevant for water and also a time step of 2 fs should be fine.
The cut-off's are the problem. You have a buffer size of 0.1 nm,
which is already smaller than 2 times the distance from the center of 
geometry

of a water molecule to a hydrogen. You need some additional distance
for water diffusion. I would use a buffer of 0.25 to 0.3 nm.
You don't list you coulombtype setting. Use pme (or if you want perfect 
energy
conservation: pme-switch), you can also use reaction-field-zero if you 
really don't

want to use PME.
Then use nstlist=-1, run a short simulation and check in at the end of 
your log file

that the neighbor list lifetime is somewhere between 5 and 20 steps.

We should have a wiki entry for such details. Maybe there is one, but I 
was too lazy

to check or make one.


There was a basic NVE page; I have updated it based on your notes above:

http://www.gromacs.org/Documentation/Terminology/NVE

-Justin



Berk

  Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 09:16:36 +0100
  From: r.fried...@bioc.uzh.ch
  To: gmx-users@gromacs.org
  Subject: Re: [gmx-users] NVE of water
 
  Hi Andrea,
  Did you use double precision? Also, I'd try a lower dt (say 1fs) and
  shake tolerance (maybe 1E-8).
  Good luck,
  Ran
 
  Andrea wrote:
   Dear users,
  
   for test purposes in order to set up a bigger system, I try to run NVE
   simulations of SPC water, but the energy increases very rapidely. My
   guess is that the cutoffs I use are not good for water. I that the
   case ( I would be grateful for a good reference for suitable SPC water
   parameters) or do I miss something else?
   My parameter file for the NVE is:
  
   title = NVE
   cpp = /lib/cpp
   integrator = md
   dt = 0.002 ; ps ! = 2 fs
   nsteps = 5 ; total 100 ps
   nstxout = 5000
   nstvout = 5000
   nstxtcout = 0
   nstlog = 5000
   nstenergy = 5000
   nstlist = 10
   ns_type = grid
   rlist = 1.1
  
   unconstrained-start = yes
   constraints = all-bonds
   constraint_algorithm = shake
   shake_tol = 0.0001
   ;VdW
   vdwtype = Switch
   rvdw = 1.0 ; rvdw+ (0.1:0.3)= rlist
   rvdw_switch = 0.9
   gen_vel = no ; yes
   gen_temp = 300
   gen_seed = -1
   ;Temperature coupling
   tc_grps = system
   tcoupl = no ;nose-hoover
   tau_t = 0.1
   ref_t = 300
   ;Pressure coupling
   pcoupl = no
   optimize_fft = yes
  
   Any suggesions are really welcome.
  
   Thank you.
  
   Regards,
   Andrea Muntean
 
 
  --
  --
  Ran Friedman
  Postdoctoral Fellow
  Computational Structural Biology Group (A. Caflisch)
  Department of Biochemistry
  University of Zurich
  Winterthurerstrasse 190
  CH-8057 Zurich, Switzerland
  Tel. +41-44-639
  Email: r.fried...@bioc.uzh.ch
  Skype: ran.friedman
  --
 
  --
  gmx-users mailing list gmx-users@gromacs.org
  http://lists.gromacs.org/mailman/listinfo/gmx-users
  Please search the archive at http://www.gromacs.org/search before 
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New Windows 7: Find the right PC for you. Learn more. 
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--


Justin A. Lemkul
Ph.D. Candidate
ICTAS Doctoral Scholar
MILES-IGERT Trainee
Department of Biochemistry
Virginia Tech
Blacksburg, VA
jalemkul[at]vt.edu | (540) 231-9080
http://www.bevanlab.biochem.vt.edu/Pages/Personal/justin


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Re: [gmx-users] NVE of water

2010-03-01 Thread Ran Friedman
Hi,

I would still argue that double precision is important.
My comment on SHAKE was based on CHARMM - in Gromacs it indeed doesn't
matter for water.

Ran

Justin A. Lemkul wrote:


 Berk Hess wrote:
 Hi,

 Shake is not relevant for water and also a time step of 2 fs should
 be fine.
 The cut-off's are the problem. You have a buffer size of 0.1 nm,
 which is already smaller than 2 times the distance from the center of
 geometry
 of a water molecule to a hydrogen. You need some additional distance
 for water diffusion. I would use a buffer of 0.25 to 0.3 nm.
 You don't list you coulombtype setting. Use pme (or if you want
 perfect energy
 conservation: pme-switch), you can also use reaction-field-zero if
 you really don't
 want to use PME.
 Then use nstlist=-1, run a short simulation and check in at the end
 of your log file
 that the neighbor list lifetime is somewhere between 5 and 20 steps.

 We should have a wiki entry for such details. Maybe there is one, but
 I was too lazy
 to check or make one.

 There was a basic NVE page; I have updated it based on your notes above:

 http://www.gromacs.org/Documentation/Terminology/NVE

 -Justin


 Berk

   Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 09:16:36 +0100
   From: r.fried...@bioc.uzh.ch
   To: gmx-users@gromacs.org
   Subject: Re: [gmx-users] NVE of water
  
   Hi Andrea,
   Did you use double precision? Also, I'd try a lower dt (say 1fs) and
   shake tolerance (maybe 1E-8).
   Good luck,
   Ran
  
   Andrea wrote:
Dear users,
   
for test purposes in order to set up a bigger system, I try to
 run NVE
simulations of SPC water, but the energy increases very
 rapidely. My
guess is that the cutoffs I use are not good for water. I that the
case ( I would be grateful for a good reference for suitable SPC
 water
parameters) or do I miss something else?
My parameter file for the NVE is:
   
title = NVE
cpp = /lib/cpp
integrator = md
dt = 0.002 ; ps ! = 2 fs
nsteps = 5 ; total 100 ps
nstxout = 5000
nstvout = 5000
nstxtcout = 0
nstlog = 5000
nstenergy = 5000
nstlist = 10
ns_type = grid
rlist = 1.1
   
unconstrained-start = yes
constraints = all-bonds
constraint_algorithm = shake
shake_tol = 0.0001
;VdW
vdwtype = Switch
rvdw = 1.0 ; rvdw+ (0.1:0.3)= rlist
rvdw_switch = 0.9
gen_vel = no ; yes
gen_temp = 300
gen_seed = -1
;Temperature coupling
tc_grps = system
tcoupl = no ;nose-hoover
tau_t = 0.1
ref_t = 300
;Pressure coupling
pcoupl = no
optimize_fft = yes
   
Any suggesions are really welcome.
   
Thank you.
   
Regards,
Andrea Muntean
  
  
   --
   --
   Ran Friedman
   Postdoctoral Fellow
   Computational Structural Biology Group (A. Caflisch)
   Department of Biochemistry
   University of Zurich
   Winterthurerstrasse 190
   CH-8057 Zurich, Switzerland
   Tel. +41-44-639
   Email: r.fried...@bioc.uzh.ch
   Skype: ran.friedman
   --
  
   --
   gmx-users mailing list gmx-users@gromacs.org
   http://lists.gromacs.org/mailman/listinfo/gmx-users
   Please search the archive at http://www.gromacs.org/search before
 posting!
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   www interface or send it to gmx-users-requ...@gromacs.org.
   Can't post? Read http://www.gromacs.org/mailing_lists/users.php

 
 New Windows 7: Find the right PC for you. Learn more.
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Re: [gmx-users] NVE of water

2010-03-01 Thread Mark Abraham

On 2/03/2010 12:39 AM, Ran Friedman wrote:

Hi,

I would still argue that double precision is important.


Oh? The discussion of Table 4 of 
http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/ct700301q (2008 GROMACS 4 JCTC 
paper) suggested to me that single-precision NVE could be done well in 
GROMACS. Am I missing something?


Mark


My comment on SHAKE was based on CHARMM - in Gromacs it indeed doesn't
matter for water.

Ran

Justin A. Lemkul wrote:



Berk Hess wrote:

Hi,

Shake is not relevant for water and also a time step of 2 fs should
be fine.
The cut-off's are the problem. You have a buffer size of 0.1 nm,
which is already smaller than 2 times the distance from the center of
geometry
of a water molecule to a hydrogen. You need some additional distance
for water diffusion. I would use a buffer of 0.25 to 0.3 nm.
You don't list you coulombtype setting. Use pme (or if you want
perfect energy
conservation: pme-switch), you can also use reaction-field-zero if
you really don't
want to use PME.
Then use nstlist=-1, run a short simulation and check in at the end
of your log file
that the neighbor list lifetime is somewhere between 5 and 20 steps.

We should have a wiki entry for such details. Maybe there is one, but
I was too lazy
to check or make one.


There was a basic NVE page; I have updated it based on your notes above:

http://www.gromacs.org/Documentation/Terminology/NVE

-Justin



Berk

Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 09:16:36 +0100
From: r.fried...@bioc.uzh.ch
To: gmx-users@gromacs.org
Subject: Re: [gmx-users] NVE of water
  
Hi Andrea,
Did you use double precision? Also, I'd try a lower dt (say 1fs) and
shake tolerance (maybe 1E-8).
Good luck,
Ran
  
Andrea wrote:
  Dear users,

  for test purposes in order to set up a bigger system, I try to
run NVE
  simulations of SPC water, but the energy increases very
rapidely. My
  guess is that the cutoffs I use are not good for water. I that the
  case ( I would be grateful for a good reference for suitable SPC
water
  parameters) or do I miss something else?
  My parameter file for the NVE is:

  title = NVE
  cpp = /lib/cpp
  integrator = md
  dt = 0.002 ; ps ! = 2 fs
  nsteps = 5 ; total 100 ps
  nstxout = 5000
  nstvout = 5000
  nstxtcout = 0
  nstlog = 5000
  nstenergy = 5000
  nstlist = 10
  ns_type = grid
  rlist = 1.1

  unconstrained-start = yes
  constraints = all-bonds
  constraint_algorithm = shake
  shake_tol = 0.0001
  ;VdW
  vdwtype = Switch
  rvdw = 1.0 ; rvdw+ (0.1:0.3)= rlist
  rvdw_switch = 0.9
  gen_vel = no ; yes
  gen_temp = 300
  gen_seed = -1
  ;Temperature coupling
  tc_grps = system
  tcoupl = no ;nose-hoover
  tau_t = 0.1
  ref_t = 300
  ;Pressure coupling
  pcoupl = no
  optimize_fft = yes

  Any suggesions are really welcome.

  Thank you.

  Regards,
  Andrea Muntean
  
  
--
--
Ran Friedman
Postdoctoral Fellow
Computational Structural Biology Group (A. Caflisch)
Department of Biochemistry
University of Zurich
Winterthurerstrasse 190
CH-8057 Zurich, Switzerland
Tel. +41-44-639
Email: r.fried...@bioc.uzh.ch
Skype: ran.friedman
--
  
--
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RE: [gmx-users] NVE of water

2010-03-01 Thread Berk Hess



 Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 15:44:28 +0100
 From: r.fried...@bioc.uzh.ch
 To: gmx-users@gromacs.org
 Subject: Re: [gmx-users] NVE of water
 
 Mark Abraham wrote:
  On 2/03/2010 12:39 AM, Ran Friedman wrote:
  Hi,
 
  I would still argue that double precision is important.
 
  Oh? The discussion of Table 4 of
  http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/ct700301q (2008 GROMACS 4 JCTC
  paper) suggested to me that single-precision NVE could be done well in
  GROMACS. Am I missing something?
 
  Mark
 The presented benchmarks were performed in the NVT ensemble (section IX).
 Or am I missing something?

No, but everything that affects energy conservation in NVE also affects it in 
NVT,
in addition the thermostat affect the integration accuracy in NVT (and in NVT
you do not measure energy conservation from the total energy, but from the
conserved energy quantity).

Double precision can be important for energy conservation, but often other
factors deteriorate the energy conservation orders of magnitude from what
can be reached in single precision already. Double precision is only required
for testing or when you really need to generate an NVE ensemble.

Berk

 
 Ran
 
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Re: [gmx-users] NVE of water

2010-03-01 Thread Ran Friedman
Berk Hess wrote:


  Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2010 15:44:28 +0100
  From: r.fried...@bioc.uzh.ch
  To: gmx-users@gromacs.org
  Subject: Re: [gmx-users] NVE of water
 
  Mark Abraham wrote:
   On 2/03/2010 12:39 AM, Ran Friedman wrote:
   Hi,
  
   I would still argue that double precision is important.
  
   Oh? The discussion of Table 4 of
   http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/ct700301q (2008 GROMACS 4 JCTC
   paper) suggested to me that single-precision NVE could be done well in
   GROMACS. Am I missing something?
  
   Mark
  The presented benchmarks were performed in the NVT ensemble
 (section IX).
  Or am I missing something?

 No, but everything that affects energy conservation in NVE also
 affects it in NVT,
 in addition the thermostat affect the integration accuracy in NVT (and
 in NVT
 you do not measure energy conservation from the total energy, but from the
 conserved energy quantity).

 Double precision can be important for energy conservation, but often other
 factors deteriorate the energy conservation orders of magnitude from what
 can be reached in single precision already. Double precision is only
 required
 for testing or when you really need to generate an NVE ensemble.

 Berk
Thanks for clarifying Berk - I was referring to the latter (i.e., when
you really need to generate an NVE ensemble). I guess this is the main
reason to run with NVE. Since most people are not running NVE with large
systems or for production simulations, the added accuracy often
justifies the use of double precision.

Best,
Ran

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[gmx-users] NVE of water

2010-02-28 Thread Andrea
Dear users,

for test purposes in order to set up a bigger system, I try to run NVE
simulations of SPC water, but the energy increases very rapidely. My guess
is that the cutoffs I use are not good for water. I that the case ( I would
be grateful for a good reference for suitable SPC water parameters) or do I
miss something else?
My parameter file for the NVE is:

title= NVE
cpp  = /lib/cpp
integrator   = md
dt   = 0.002   ; ps ! = 2 fs
nsteps   = 5   ; total 100 ps
nstxout  = 5000
nstvout  = 5000
nstxtcout= 0
nstlog   = 5000
nstenergy= 5000
nstlist  = 10
ns_type  = grid
rlist= 1.1

unconstrained-start  = yes
constraints  = all-bonds
constraint_algorithm = shake
shake_tol= 0.0001
;VdW
vdwtype  = Switch
rvdw = 1.0  ; rvdw+ (0.1:0.3)=  rlist
rvdw_switch  = 0.9
gen_vel  = no   ; yes
gen_temp = 300
gen_seed = -1
;Temperature coupling
tc_grps  = system
tcoupl   = no   ;nose-hoover
tau_t= 0.1
ref_t= 300
;Pressure coupling
pcoupl   = no
optimize_fft = yes

Any suggesions are really welcome.

Thank you.

Regards,
Andrea Muntean
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