[gmx-users] Re: Specific question regarding SPC water model

2013-06-03 Thread Someone Else
Thanks for the answer.

You're introducing atomic overlap and thus an energetic singularity from
the infinite Coulombic attraction.
Is there anything I can do  with this?

I posted this question because I'm trying to run a Monte Carlo simulation
of a water box but eventually it finds the global energy minimum (-Inf) and
can't escape from it.


2013/6/4 Justin Lemkul [via GROMACS] ml-node+s5086n5008760...@n6.nabble.com




 On 6/3/13 7:49 PM, tnorgd wrote:
  Dear group,
 
  I am not sure how SPC energy actually works - is there really just one
 VdW
  interaction - just between two oxygen atoms?
 

 Yep.  A lot of force fields work like that.  Given the size of H atoms
 relative
 to their heavy atom counterparts, the heavy atom to which they are
 connected
 generally governs the vdW interactions.

  If so, when I place a hydrogen atom of one water molecule at the
 location of
  the oxygen from another water,
  the two oxygens are separated by the distance of H-O bond length i.e.
 1.0A.
  The only VdW interaction is repulsive but finite (and equal ~4E6) but
 the
  electrostatic between H and O is -Inf = 1/0.0
 
  What's wrong?
 

 Nothing.  That makes perfect sense.  You're introducing atomic overlap and
 thus
 an energetic singularity from the infinite Coulombic attraction.

 -Justin

 --
 

 Justin A. Lemkul, Ph.D.
 Research Scientist
 Department of Biochemistry
 Virginia Tech
 Blacksburg, VA
 jalemkul[at]vt.edu | (540) 231-9080
 http://www.bevanlab.biochem.vt.edu/Pages/Personal/justin

 
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Re: [gmx-users] Re: Specific question regarding SPC water model

2013-06-03 Thread Justin Lemkul



On 6/3/13 8:12 PM, Someone Else wrote:

Thanks for the answer.


You're introducing atomic overlap and thus an energetic singularity from

the infinite Coulombic attraction.
Is there anything I can do  with this?

I posted this question because I'm trying to run a Monte Carlo simulation
of a water box but eventually it finds the global energy minimum (-Inf) and
can't escape from it.




That sounds like something done outside of Gromacs, is it not?  I would think 
that properly accounting for Coulombic interactions would have prevented this 
from occurring, but I don't do MC so I can't go beyond speculation.


-Justin


2013/6/4 Justin Lemkul [via GROMACS] ml-node+s5086n5008760...@n6.nabble.com







On 6/3/13 7:49 PM, tnorgd wrote:

Dear group,

I am not sure how SPC energy actually works - is there really just one

VdW

interaction - just between two oxygen atoms?



Yep.  A lot of force fields work like that.  Given the size of H atoms
relative
to their heavy atom counterparts, the heavy atom to which they are
connected
generally governs the vdW interactions.


If so, when I place a hydrogen atom of one water molecule at the

location of

the oxygen from another water,
the two oxygens are separated by the distance of H-O bond length i.e.

1.0A.

The only VdW interaction is repulsive but finite (and equal ~4E6) but

the

electrostatic between H and O is -Inf = 1/0.0

What's wrong?



Nothing.  That makes perfect sense.  You're introducing atomic overlap and
thus
an energetic singularity from the infinite Coulombic attraction.

-Justin

--


Justin A. Lemkul, Ph.D.
Research Scientist
Department of Biochemistry
Virginia Tech
Blacksburg, VA
jalemkul[at]vt.edu | (540) 231-9080
http://www.bevanlab.biochem.vt.edu/Pages/Personal/justin


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--


Justin A. Lemkul, Ph.D.
Research Scientist
Department of Biochemistry
Virginia Tech
Blacksburg, VA
jalemkul[at]vt.edu | (540) 231-9080
http://www.bevanlab.biochem.vt.edu/Pages/Personal/justin


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