Re: [gmx-users] 1. better tool: g_hbond or trjorder 2. g_energy: specific heat and compressibility

2007-09-12 Thread Frankie Montenegro
I got a fairly good number using fluctuations formula: cv=3.91J/K.g. I
can't seem to figure out what am I doing wrong with g_energy. If
someone could run /tutor/water/spc216 and get Cv it would be greatly
appreciated.

BTW, I do get interesting numbers for that system when I run
g_energy -nmol 216 -ndf 9; Cv=55J/mol.K (close)
g_energy -nmol 216 -ndf 10; Cv=88J/mol.K (even closer)

Not that I can justify  those ndf values though.
F.

On 9/12/07, David van der Spoel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Frankie Montenegro wrote:
> > Correction: the number is -706.4J/mol.K (negative) . Are you sure 6 is
> > correct for ndf? I am running  ffgmx force field and all bonds
> > constrained spc water.
> constrained SPC water has 6 dof (3x3 - 3 constraints).
>
> Is the temperature constant?
>
> Maybe you do not need the -nmol flag, otherwise it is time to check the
> g_energy source code maybe.
>
> > F.
> >
> >
> > On 9/12/07, Frankie Montenegro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> David,
> >> I didn't realize what the nmol option does, thanks for the tip. But
> >> the number went from 12.5 to 706.4 (I'm hiting my forehead on my desk
> >> as I type this). BTW why ndf 6 and not 3? For rotation?
> >>
> >> On 9/12/07, David van der Spoel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>> Frankie Montenegro wrote:
>  OK but I thought your number comes from equipartition theorem, not
>  fluctuations. I think I remember correctly someone posting the code on
>  the list a while ago.
> 
>  Besides, I am also running 3000 SPC waters with Nose-Hoover. After
>  250ps, the number is identical to the one from the example: 12.5
>  J/mol.K
> >>> did you use
> >>> g_energy -nmol 3000 -ndf 6 ?
> >>>
>  F.
> 
>  On 9/12/07, Frankie Montenegro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I am not sure what I'm missing here. I just ran an example from
> > /tutor/water and got even worse
> > number for specific heat, around 12.5 J/mol.K. Sure, it was with
> > Berendsen T-coupling, no shifted VdW, but one would still expect
> > better number.  Anyone?
> > Thanks, Frankie
> >
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> >>> Molec. Biophys. group, Dept. of Cell & Molec. Biol., Uppsala University.
> >>> Box 596, 75124 Uppsala, Sweden. Phone:  +46184714205. Fax: +4618511755.
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> Box 596, 75124 Uppsala, Sweden. Phone:  +46184714205. Fax: +4618511755.
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Re: [gmx-users] 1. better tool: g_hbond or trjorder 2. g_energy: specific heat and compressibility

2007-09-12 Thread David van der Spoel

Frankie Montenegro wrote:

Correction: the number is -706.4J/mol.K (negative) . Are you sure 6 is
correct for ndf? I am running  ffgmx force field and all bonds
constrained spc water.

constrained SPC water has 6 dof (3x3 - 3 constraints).

Is the temperature constant?

Maybe you do not need the -nmol flag, otherwise it is time to check the 
g_energy source code maybe.



F.


On 9/12/07, Frankie Montenegro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

David,
I didn't realize what the nmol option does, thanks for the tip. But
the number went from 12.5 to 706.4 (I'm hiting my forehead on my desk
as I type this). BTW why ndf 6 and not 3? For rotation?

On 9/12/07, David van der Spoel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Frankie Montenegro wrote:

OK but I thought your number comes from equipartition theorem, not
fluctuations. I think I remember correctly someone posting the code on
the list a while ago.

Besides, I am also running 3000 SPC waters with Nose-Hoover. After
250ps, the number is identical to the one from the example: 12.5
J/mol.K

did you use
g_energy -nmol 3000 -ndf 6 ?


F.

On 9/12/07, Frankie Montenegro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

I am not sure what I'm missing here. I just ran an example from
/tutor/water and got even worse
number for specific heat, around 12.5 J/mol.K. Sure, it was with
Berendsen T-coupling, no shifted VdW, but one would still expect
better number.  Anyone?
Thanks, Frankie


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Molec. Biophys. group, Dept. of Cell & Molec. Biol., Uppsala University.
Box 596, 75124 Uppsala, Sweden. Phone:  +46184714205. Fax: +4618511755.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]   [EMAIL PROTECTED]   http://folding.bmc.uu.se
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Re: [gmx-users] 1. better tool: g_hbond or trjorder 2. g_energy: specific heat and compressibility

2007-09-12 Thread Frankie Montenegro
Correction: the number is -706.4J/mol.K (negative) . Are you sure 6 is
correct for ndf? I am running  ffgmx force field and all bonds
constrained spc water.
F.


On 9/12/07, Frankie Montenegro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> David,
> I didn't realize what the nmol option does, thanks for the tip. But
> the number went from 12.5 to 706.4 (I'm hiting my forehead on my desk
> as I type this). BTW why ndf 6 and not 3? For rotation?
>
> On 9/12/07, David van der Spoel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Frankie Montenegro wrote:
> > > OK but I thought your number comes from equipartition theorem, not
> > > fluctuations. I think I remember correctly someone posting the code on
> > > the list a while ago.
> > >
> > > Besides, I am also running 3000 SPC waters with Nose-Hoover. After
> > > 250ps, the number is identical to the one from the example: 12.5
> > > J/mol.K
> >
> > did you use
> > g_energy -nmol 3000 -ndf 6 ?
> >
> > >
> > > F.
> > >
> > > On 9/12/07, Frankie Montenegro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >> I am not sure what I'm missing here. I just ran an example from
> > >> /tutor/water and got even worse
> > >> number for specific heat, around 12.5 J/mol.K. Sure, it was with
> > >> Berendsen T-coupling, no shifted VdW, but one would still expect
> > >> better number.  Anyone?
> > >> Thanks, Frankie
> > >>
> > > ___
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> > --
> > David van der Spoel, Ph.D.
> > Molec. Biophys. group, Dept. of Cell & Molec. Biol., Uppsala University.
> > Box 596, 75124 Uppsala, Sweden. Phone:  +46184714205. Fax: +4618511755.
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED]   http://folding.bmc.uu.se
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Re: [gmx-users] 1. better tool: g_hbond or trjorder 2. g_energy: specific heat and compressibility

2007-09-12 Thread Frankie Montenegro
David,
I didn't realize what the nmol option does, thanks for the tip. But
the number went from 12.5 to 706.4 (I'm hiting my forehead on my desk
as I type this). BTW why ndf 6 and not 3? For rotation?

On 9/12/07, David van der Spoel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Frankie Montenegro wrote:
> > OK but I thought your number comes from equipartition theorem, not
> > fluctuations. I think I remember correctly someone posting the code on
> > the list a while ago.
> >
> > Besides, I am also running 3000 SPC waters with Nose-Hoover. After
> > 250ps, the number is identical to the one from the example: 12.5
> > J/mol.K
>
> did you use
> g_energy -nmol 3000 -ndf 6 ?
>
> >
> > F.
> >
> > On 9/12/07, Frankie Montenegro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> I am not sure what I'm missing here. I just ran an example from
> >> /tutor/water and got even worse
> >> number for specific heat, around 12.5 J/mol.K. Sure, it was with
> >> Berendsen T-coupling, no shifted VdW, but one would still expect
> >> better number.  Anyone?
> >> Thanks, Frankie
> >>
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> --
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> Molec. Biophys. group, Dept. of Cell & Molec. Biol., Uppsala University.
> Box 596, 75124 Uppsala, Sweden. Phone:  +46184714205. Fax: +4618511755.
> [EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED]   http://folding.bmc.uu.se
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Re: [gmx-users] 1. better tool: g_hbond or trjorder 2. g_energy: specific heat and compressibility

2007-09-12 Thread David van der Spoel

Frankie Montenegro wrote:

OK but I thought your number comes from equipartition theorem, not
fluctuations. I think I remember correctly someone posting the code on
the list a while ago.

Besides, I am also running 3000 SPC waters with Nose-Hoover. After
250ps, the number is identical to the one from the example: 12.5
J/mol.K


did you use
g_energy -nmol 3000 -ndf 6 ?



F.

On 9/12/07, Frankie Montenegro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

I am not sure what I'm missing here. I just ran an example from
/tutor/water and got even worse
number for specific heat, around 12.5 J/mol.K. Sure, it was with
Berendsen T-coupling, no shifted VdW, but one would still expect
better number.  Anyone?
Thanks, Frankie


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Box 596, 75124 Uppsala, Sweden. Phone:  +46184714205. Fax: +4618511755.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]   [EMAIL PROTECTED]   http://folding.bmc.uu.se
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Re: [gmx-users] 1. better tool: g_hbond or trjorder 2. g_energy: specific heat and compressibility

2007-09-12 Thread Frankie Montenegro
OK but I thought your number comes from equipartition theorem, not
fluctuations. I think I remember correctly someone posting the code on
the list a while ago.

Besides, I am also running 3000 SPC waters with Nose-Hoover. After
250ps, the number is identical to the one from the example: 12.5
J/mol.K

F.

On 9/12/07, Frankie Montenegro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I am not sure what I'm missing here. I just ran an example from
> /tutor/water and got even worse
> number for specific heat, around 12.5 J/mol.K. Sure, it was with
> Berendsen T-coupling, no shifted VdW, but one would still expect
> better number.  Anyone?
> Thanks, Frankie
>
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Re: [gmx-users] 1. better tool: g_hbond or trjorder 2. g_energy: specific heat and compressibility

2007-09-12 Thread David van der Spoel

Frankie Montenegro wrote:

I am not sure what I'm missing here. I just ran an example from
/tutor/water and got even worse
number for specific heat, around 12.5 J/mol.K. Sure, it was with
Berendsen T-coupling, no shifted VdW, but one would still expect
better number.  Anyone?


Berendsen t coupling completely screws up the fluctuations. Not a chance 
to come even close.



Thanks, Frankie
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Box 596, 75124 Uppsala, Sweden. Phone:  +46184714205. Fax: +4618511755.
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Re: [gmx-users] 1. better tool: g_hbond or trjorder 2. g_energy: specific heat and compressibility

2007-09-12 Thread Frankie Montenegro
I am not sure what I'm missing here. I just ran an example from
/tutor/water and got even worse
number for specific heat, around 12.5 J/mol.K. Sure, it was with
Berendsen T-coupling, no shifted VdW, but one would still expect
better number.  Anyone?
Thanks, Frankie
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Re: [gmx-users] 1. better tool: g_hbond or trjorder 2. g_energy: specific heat and compressibility

2007-09-12 Thread Frankie Montenegro
On 9/11/07, Mark Abraham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Frankie Montenegro wrote:
> > Hi again guys,
> >
> > Few more questions:
> >
> > 1. I would like to calculate compressibility of the protein+water
> > system, but separating it into bulk water, hydration water and
> > protein.  So I need to pick these and compute volumes separately. When
> > picking hydration water molecules, two tools are mentioned on the
> > List: trjorder and g_hbond. Which one would you recommend for my task?
>
> Don't know, but I'd start by reading the man pages for each of those tools.
>

I did that. They both seem OK to me. I am not that experienced with
Gromacs though, which is why I'm asking for suggestion.

> > 2. a)The program g_energy gives output for compressibility. What
> > method was used for that calculation?
>
> See the manual first.
>


Did that too. Didn't find anything. I suppose I could go through the code.


> >b) When running g_energy I noticed a particularly crappy number for
> > the specific heat of SPC water with ffgmx forcefield. It is about
> > 17J/mol.K (should be about 75).
> > I get similar number with my code using energy fluctuation method.
> > Do you guys have any suggestions? I cut and paste my equilibration and
> > production run mdp files.
>
> Why are you generating velocities post-equilibration?
>

Upps! Thanks.
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Re: [gmx-users] 1. better tool: g_hbond or trjorder 2. g_energy: specific heat and compressibility

2007-09-12 Thread David van der Spoel

Frankie Montenegro wrote:

On 9/11/07, David van der Spoel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Frankie Montenegro wrote:



That sounds difficult because computing volume is difficult. We should
write a better program for this, but the problem lies in definition:
where does one water molecule stop and the next begin?



Thanks. I was hoping to use Voronoi volume for compressibility
calculation. That should ensure that individual partial volumes add up
to the complete volume. So, is any of the two (trjorder vs g_hbond)
better?
but neither of these programs calculate volumes. for selecting the 
nearest waters trjorder is easiest.



This is because of Berendsen coupling. It should be better with
Nose-Hoover or without (using shifted vdw potential as well).


I suspected Berendsen coupling might be the problem. Should I expect
anything close to the measured value with Nose-Hoover, but keeping vdw
the way it is?


I suggest you try both on pure water. Will take you half an hour.


Regards,
Frankie
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Box 596, 75124 Uppsala, Sweden. Phone:  +46184714205. Fax: +4618511755.
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Re: [gmx-users] 1. better tool: g_hbond or trjorder 2. g_energy: specific heat and compressibility

2007-09-12 Thread Frankie Montenegro
On 9/11/07, David van der Spoel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Frankie Montenegro wrote:

> That sounds difficult because computing volume is difficult. We should
> write a better program for this, but the problem lies in definition:
> where does one water molecule stop and the next begin?
>
> >

Thanks. I was hoping to use Voronoi volume for compressibility
calculation. That should ensure that individual partial volumes add up
to the complete volume. So, is any of the two (trjorder vs g_hbond)
better?

> This is because of Berendsen coupling. It should be better with
> Nose-Hoover or without (using shifted vdw potential as well).

I suspected Berendsen coupling might be the problem. Should I expect
anything close to the measured value with Nose-Hoover, but keeping vdw
the way it is?

Regards,
Frankie
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Re: [gmx-users] 1. better tool: g_hbond or trjorder 2. g_energy: specific heat and compressibility

2007-09-12 Thread Mark Abraham

Frankie Montenegro wrote:

Hi again guys,

Few more questions:

1. I would like to calculate compressibility of the protein+water
system, but separating it into bulk water, hydration water and
protein.  So I need to pick these and compute volumes separately. When
picking hydration water molecules, two tools are mentioned on the
List: trjorder and g_hbond. Which one would you recommend for my task?


Don't know, but I'd start by reading the man pages for each of those tools.


2. a)The program g_energy gives output for compressibility. What
method was used for that calculation?


See the manual first.


   b) When running g_energy I noticed a particularly crappy number for
the specific heat of SPC water with ffgmx forcefield. It is about
17J/mol.K (should be about 75).
I get similar number with my code using energy fluctuation method.
Do you guys have any suggestions? I cut and paste my equilibration and
production run mdp files.


Why are you generating velocities post-equilibration?

Mark
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Re: [gmx-users] 1. better tool: g_hbond or trjorder 2. g_energy: specific heat and compressibility

2007-09-12 Thread David van der Spoel

Frankie Montenegro wrote:

Hi again guys,

Few more questions:

1. I would like to calculate compressibility of the protein+water
system, but separating it into bulk water, hydration water and
protein.  So I need to pick these and compute volumes separately. When
picking hydration water molecules, two tools are mentioned on the
List: trjorder and g_hbond. Which one would you recommend for my task?
That sounds difficult because computing volume is difficult. We should 
write a better program for this, but the problem lies in definition: 
where does one water molecule stop and the next begin?




2. a)The program g_energy gives output for compressibility. What
method was used for that calculation?
   b) When running g_energy I noticed a particularly crappy number for
the specific heat of SPC water with ffgmx forcefield. It is about
17J/mol.K (should be about 75).


This is because of Berendsen coupling. It should be better with 
Nose-Hoover or without (using shifted vdw potential as well).



I get similar number with my code using energy fluctuation method.
Do you guys have any suggestions? I cut and paste my equilibration and
production run mdp files.


Equilibration

Thanks,
Frankie
cpp =  /lib/cpp
define  =  -DPOSRES
constraints =  all-bonds
integrator  =  md
tinit   =  0.0
dt  =  0.001; ps !
nsteps  =  1; total 10 ps.
nstcomm =  1
nstxout =  1000
nstvout =  1000
nstfout =  0
nstlog  =  100
nstenergy   =  100
nstlist =  10
ns_type =  grid

comm-mode   =  Angular
nstcomm =  1
comm-grps   =  System

pbc =  xyz

coulombtype =  PME
rvdw=  0.9
rlist   =  0.9
rcoulomb=  0.9
fourierspacing  =  0.12
pme_order   =  4
ewald_rtol  =  1e-5

; Berendsen temperature coupling is on in two groups
Tcoupl  =  berendsen
tc-grps = System
tau_t   =  0.1
ref_t   =  275
; Energy monitoring
energygrps  = System
; Pressure coupling is not on
Pcoupl  =  no
; Random seed for Andersen thermostat
andersen_seed= 815131
; Generate velocites is on at 275 K.
gen_vel =  yes
gen_temp=  275.0
gen_seed=  173529


NVT run

cpp =  /lib/cpp
constraints =  all-bonds
integrator  =  md
dt  =  0.001; ps !
nsteps  =  110  ; total 1.1ns.
nstcomm =  1
nstxout =  1000
nstvout =  1000
nstfout =  0
nstlog  =  1000
nstenergy   =  1000
nstlist =  10
ns_type =  grid

comm-mode   =  Angular
nstcomm =  1
comm-grps   =  System

pbc =  xyz

coulombtype =  PME
rvdw=  0.9
rlist   =  0.9
rcoulomb=  0.9
fourierspacing  =  0.12
pme_order   =  4
ewald_rtol  =  1e-5

; Berendsen temperature coupling is on in two groups
Tcoupl  =  berendsen
tc-grps =  System
tau_t   =  0.1
ref_t   =  275
; Energy monitoring
energygrps  =  System
; Pressure coupling is not on
Pcoupl  =  no
; Generate velocites is on at 275 K.
gen_vel =  yes
gen_temp=  275.0
gen_seed=  173529
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--
David van der Spoel, Ph.D.
Molec. Biophys. group, Dept. of Cell & Molec. Biol., Uppsala University.
Box 596, 75124 Uppsala, Sweden. Phone:  +46184714205. Fax: +4618511755.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]   [EMAIL PROTECTED]   http://folding.bmc.uu.se
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