Re: Time flies when you're chasing bugs and LARTing lusers
On Fri, 28 Jul 2006 16:24:25 -0400, Mark E. Mallett wrote: > On Fri, Jul 28, 2006 at 03:35:53PM -0400, Bill Mullen wrote: > > > > That's right, it's here again ... > > > > Happy SysAdmin Day to everyone in GNHLUG! > > > > http://www.sysadminday.com/ > > How self-serving :-) > >(wait for it ...) Now now, don't get your back up over it ... ;-) -- Bill Mullen RLU #270075 ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Time flies when you're chasing bugs and LARTing lusers
On Fri, Jul 28, 2006 at 03:35:53PM -0400, Bill Mullen wrote: > > That's right, it's here again ... > > Happy SysAdmin Day to everyone in GNHLUG! > > http://www.sysadminday.com/ How self-serving :-) (wait for it ...) mm ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Time flies when you're chasing bugs and LARTing lusers
That's right, it's here again ... Happy SysAdmin Day to everyone in GNHLUG! http://www.sysadminday.com/ -- Bill Mullen RLU #270075 ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: OT: Whirled Peas (was Re: Malware "best practices")
[EMAIL PROTECTED] said: > Plowshares? Is that publicly traded? Well, in a odd little way, they are: http://www.boingboing.net/2005/11/29/buy_tanks_and_guns_t.html >People who can't communicate should shut up about it. With all due respect to Mr. Lehrer, that is what causes war. I would suggest this thought: People who can't communicate should try harder. md -- Jon "maddog" Hall Executive Director Linux International(R) email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 80 Amherst St. Voice: +1.603.672.4557 Amherst, N.H. 03031-3032 U.S.A. WWW: http://www.li.org Board Member: Uniforum Association Board Member Emeritus: USENIX Association (2000-2006) (R)Linux is a registered trademark of Linus Torvalds in several countries. (R)Linux International is a registered trademark in the USA used pursuant to a license from Linux Mark Institute, authorized licensor of Linus Torvalds, owner of the Linux trademark on a worldwide basis (R)UNIX is a registered trademark of The Open Group in the USA and other countries. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: FOSS benefits the field of computer engineering
On Fri, Jul 28, 2006 at 02:19:18PM -0400, Jon maddog Hall wrote: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: > > I'd be interested in seeing a presentation like that. Afterwards, we could > > discuss taking the GNHLUG public. > > > > From my viewpoint it is "public", it is just not "profitable". :-) Who says you have to be profitable for an IPO? or for VC money? C'mon now! ;) -- Christopher Schmidt Web Developer ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: FOSS benefits the field of computer engineering
[EMAIL PROTECTED] said: > I'd be interested in seeing a presentation like that. Afterwards, we could > discuss taking the GNHLUG public. > >From my viewpoint it is "public", it is just not "profitable". :-) md -- Jon "maddog" Hall Executive Director Linux International(R) email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 80 Amherst St. Voice: +1.603.672.4557 Amherst, N.H. 03031-3032 U.S.A. WWW: http://www.li.org Board Member: Uniforum Association Board Member Emeritus: USENIX Association (2000-2006) (R)Linux is a registered trademark of Linus Torvalds in several countries. (R)Linux International is a registered trademark in the USA used pursuant to a license from Linux Mark Institute, authorized licensor of Linus Torvalds, owner of the Linux trademark on a worldwide basis (R)UNIX is a registered trademark of The Open Group in the USA and other countries. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: FOSS benefits the field of computer engineering
> He is with a VC firm, still just as "giving" and "open" > (and technical) as before. He has offered to come and speak > at the group if people would like tips on how to approach a > VC for funding, or just to understand more about what a VC > would be looking for in a company. I'd be interested in seeing a presentation like that. Afterwards, we could discuss taking the GNHLUG public. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: FOSS benefits the field of computer engineering
[EMAIL PROTECTED] said: > Again, this is just learning from experience, it has nothing to do with FOSS > specifically. Stick with a closed-source project for a few release cycles > and you will see the same thing. I will agree with this, but only to a point. A lot of shops have "coding practices" that may or may not be useful. Exposure to many different types of coding methods makes the better programmer, IMHO, and that leans towards FOSS, where outside ideas and skills are just as visible as those inside the organization. I worked with two types of programmers in my very early days. One type was very willing to share their code, their ideas and their skills with a young programmer. The other type was very secretive, and did not share, trying to protect "their edge" in the company. This latter group was not very "open". It is from the first set of programmers that I learned the most. Ironically (due to good management) it was the first set of programmers that moved forward in the company. The benefits of the closed-source project that you espouse are only valid if the programmer can see the source code for that closed project. In effect, you are validating the concept of FOSS over closed source. md P.S. I recently ran into one of these programmers after thirty years. He is with a VC firm, still just as "giving" and "open" (and technical) as before. He has offered to come and speak at the group if people would like tips on how to approach a VC for funding, or just to understand more about what a VC would be looking for in a company. -- Jon "maddog" Hall Executive Director Linux International(R) email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 80 Amherst St. Voice: +1.603.672.4557 Amherst, N.H. 03031-3032 U.S.A. WWW: http://www.li.org Board Member: Uniforum Association Board Member Emeritus: USENIX Association (2000-2006) (R)Linux is a registered trademark of Linus Torvalds in several countries. (R)Linux International is a registered trademark in the USA used pursuant to a license from Linux Mark Institute, authorized licensor of Linus Torvalds, owner of the Linux trademark on a worldwide basis (R)UNIX is a registered trademark of The Open Group in the USA and other countries. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
PBNJ - a suite of tools to monitor changes on a network.
So I have been working on a tool that I have just released the 2nd version too. Here is a description of it: PBNJ is a network suite to monitor changes that occur on a network over time. It does this by checking for changes on the target machine(s), which includes the details about the services running on them as well as the service state. PBNJ parses the data from a scan and stores it in a database. PBNJ uses Nmap to perform scans. It can be downloaded from: http://puzzle.dl.sourceforge.net/sourceforge/pbnj/pbnj-2.0.tar.bz2 http://puzzle.dl.sourceforge.net/sourceforge/pbnj/pbnj-2.0.tar.gz http://puzzle.dl.sourceforge.net/sourceforge/pbnj/pbnj-2.0.zip I would love to hear comments, suggestions or questions that anyone has. Regards, Josh -- Joshua D. Abraham Northeastern University College of Computer and Information Science www.ccs.neu.edu/home/jabra ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: FOSS benefits the field of computer engineering (was: Malware "best practices")
Ben Scott wrote: On 7/27/06, Jason Stephenson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: In the commercial realm of closed source software most programmers only get to see the code of the project(s) to which they are assigned. They never get to see much code that's better or worse than what they are used to seeing. I think you've got a very good point there. Not just the code, either, but the whole experience. Learning a FOSS project means you have to learn the data structures and program flow of someone else's code. You get to appreciate the value of good design and good comments/documentation, and/or see how hard the lack of same makes picking up a project. All of this is true for a programmer coming in to an existing closed-source project as well. You also get to see, first hand, how software evolves over time, and the consequences of bad work. You also see how abuses and bad assumptions lead to software failures in the field. Again, this is just learning from experience, it has nothing to do with FOSS specifically. Stick with a closed-source project for a few release cycles and you will see the same thing. The availability of open-source code and projects increases the opportunities to learn these lessons, but the lessons will be learned from experience whether the code is open or closed. Kent ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
FOSS as a "good code" enabler
[EMAIL PROTECTED] said: > I think you've got a very good point there. Not just the code, either, but > the whole experience. Learning a FOSS project means you have to learn the > data structures and program flow of someone else's code. You get to > appreciate the value of good design and good comments/documentation, and/or > see how hard the lack of same makes picking up a project. You also get to > see, first hand, how software evolves over time, and the consequences of bad > work. You also see how abuses and bad assumptions lead to software failures > in the field. > Wow. This is actually pretty deep stuff. Another benefit of FOSS. I > haven't seen this particular angle "sold" before. Wow. This is a huge > point. FOSS is good because it improves the overall quality of software > *everywhere*. I cover this topic in several of my talks. The side effects are also: o Going for a job? - Showing your coding ability is better than a resume. - Allowing your potential employer to see how you interact with others on mailing lists, etc. is a selling point For example, if I were to look over the gnhlug mail archive for the past couple of years, I know who I would hire, and who I would not. :-} This was how Mark Shuttleworth put together his Ubuntu team. He took the Debian email archives to Antarctica (where he would not be disturbed) for three months and scoured through them. md -- Jon "maddog" Hall Executive Director Linux International(R) email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 80 Amherst St. Voice: +1.603.672.4557 Amherst, N.H. 03031-3032 U.S.A. WWW: http://www.li.org Board Member: Uniforum Association Board Member Emeritus: USENIX Association (2000-2006) (R)Linux is a registered trademark of Linus Torvalds in several countries. (R)Linux International is a registered trademark in the USA used pursuant to a license from Linux Mark Institute, authorized licensor of Linus Torvalds, owner of the Linux trademark on a worldwide basis (R)UNIX is a registered trademark of The Open Group in the USA and other countries. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
FOSS benefits the field of computer engineering (was: Malware "best practices")
On 7/27/06, Jason Stephenson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: The MySpace "worm" does highlight something important: Programmers keep making the same stupid mistakes, over and over and over and over and over again. As a programmer, I can tell you why. Most programmers are not well versed in the art or the science (if there really is any) of programming. Indeed. From what I've seen, most aspects of computing are not approached with any kind of engineering discipline. That includes not only traditional programming, but software design, data design, UI design, integration, systems management, etc. People just throw stuff together and hope it works. Small wonder that things fall down so often. This can also be applied to help requests and problem solving. I'm amazed at how often, when I ask a colleague for a cause/solution summary on a trouble case, they can't give a coherent answer. They don't really understand what was wrong, how or why it happened, or what they did to fix it. Which usually leads to them fixing the same problem over and over again. Heck, most of the human history seems to involve this syndrome. In the commercial realm of closed source software most programmers only get to see the code of the project(s) to which they are assigned. They never get to see much code that's better or worse than what they are used to seeing. I think you've got a very good point there. Not just the code, either, but the whole experience. Learning a FOSS project means you have to learn the data structures and program flow of someone else's code. You get to appreciate the value of good design and good comments/documentation, and/or see how hard the lack of same makes picking up a project. You also get to see, first hand, how software evolves over time, and the consequences of bad work. You also see how abuses and bad assumptions lead to software failures in the field. Wow. This is actually pretty deep stuff. Another benefit of FOSS. I haven't seen this particular angle "sold" before. Wow. This is a huge point. FOSS is good because it improves the overall quality of software *everywhere*. -- Ben ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Pranking wifi intruders
As soon as I get a wireless rig I wanna do this: http://www.ex-parrot.com/~pete/upside-down-ternet.html ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Google hosting FOSS projects?
At the risk of getting more on topic (*grin*), did anybody catch yesterdays slashdot story about Google hosting F/OSS projects? What do folks think about this? Has anybody tried it out? -- Cole Tuininga <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: OT: Whirled Peas (was Re: Malware "best practices")
On Friday, Jul 28th 2006 at 06:42 -0400, quoth Jon maddog Hall: =>No, I think the way to "world peace" is to beat the swords into =>plowshares, make sure everyone has enough to eat, a decent life for =>themselves and a better life for their children. To make life so sweet =>that people will be loath to give it up. And when old men want to =>fight, they do it themselves, face to face, hand to hand, instead of =>sending young men off to die. Plowshares? Is that publicly traded? I would like to quote that famous philosopher of the 50's from right here in our very own Cambridge, Tom Lehrer: People who can't communicate should shut up about it. A serious contribution to the causes of war. -- Time flies like the wind. Fruit flies like a banana. Stranger things have .0. happened but none stranger than this. Does your driver's license say Organ ..0 Donor?Black holes are where God divided by zero. Listen to me! We are all- 000 individuals! What if this weren't a hypothetical question? steveo at syslang.net ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Malware "best practices"
On 7/27/06, Jason Stephenson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Do you know why? Most programmers don't really get to see that muchsource code. It's true. In the commercial realm of closed sourcesoftware most programmers only get to see the code of the project(s) towhich they are assigned. They never get to see much code that's better
or worse than what they are used to seeing.The same is true in most university CS programs. Students are notexposed to all that much code. It's mostly theory and mathematics andthen applying that theory and mathematics in code.
Code Review (auditing?) would be a good class subject. This is very far from what most architects or engineers do in their
educations or their careers. They study other's designs andimplementations. They appreciate one another's work as art. ClosedI got my training as a Mechanical Engineer ('88). We really didn't study real world stuff. We worked on theoretical models. Think physics type stuff, but much more in depth - no frictionless surfaces :-)
We had a few project classes an a lab that dealt with more real world stuff but most of those projects were electives.One thing that appeared in many equations was a factor of safety. A NASA program would wittle that to the bone (<2) and a bridge would be closer to 3. Redundencies were usually built in. How much software crashes instead of failing gracefully?
And of course, it's easy to analyze the design and redo it with a different tact (what if I used 1040 steel instead of 1060? Change the gear driven stuff to chain or belt driven?)I don't think that's easy to do in software. If it was, you'd see more things like emacs vs xemacs which (from what I understand) are different in thier data structures and programming style.
source programmers cannot do this, while open source programmers have
the opportunity. (However, I doubt very many of them do this.)Additionally, software is in its infancy. I imagine that the first fewthousand bridges that were built were pretty dodgy things. They wereprobably very likely to collapse under you. It took mankind a long time
to figure all this out. (They still don't always do it right as the bigdig mess is proving.) Software is a bit more complicated on the insidethan making a bridge, too.Writing software is like writing fiction or nonfiction in the sense that
the only way to really get better is to do it. You read a lot and youwrite a lot.--It helps to eat your own dog food, too.___gnhlug-discuss mailing list
gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.orghttp://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
OT: Whirled Peas (was Re: Malware "best practices")
> Humans will never learn to live in peace (I pray that I am wrong here). Oh > well. Perhaps the way to induce peaceful living would be to give the > cyber-equivalent of the thermonuclear bomb to everyone. Kinda like giving > everyone a lit match whilst standing in a pool of petrol. If everyone were sane, this might have a chance. Unfortunately there are quite a few insane people in the world, and with this scenario it only takes one. How many times have you seen pictures of people who set themselves on fire to protest something? It is even a smaller step if they thought they could take the people they blame their plight on with them. There is a reason for the locks, double locks, cross-over locks, etc in the missle bunkers that we have. And we will probably never know how many times at least one of the sets of hands needed to launch a missle went "bonkers" and tried to "end it all". No, I think the way to "world peace" is to beat the swords into plowshares, make sure everyone has enough to eat, a decent life for themselves and a better life for their children. To make life so sweet that people will be loath to give it up. And when old men want to fight, they do it themselves, face to face, hand to hand, instead of sending young men off to die. md -- Jon "maddog" Hall Executive Director Linux International(R) email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 80 Amherst St. Voice: +1.603.672.4557 Amherst, N.H. 03031-3032 U.S.A. WWW: http://www.li.org Board Member: Uniforum Association Board Member Emeritus: USENIX Association (2000-2006) (R)Linux is a registered trademark of Linus Torvalds in several countries. (R)Linux International is a registered trademark in the USA used pursuant to a license from Linux Mark Institute, authorized licensor of Linus Torvalds, owner of the Linux trademark on a worldwide basis (R)UNIX is a registered trademark of The Open Group in the USA and other countries. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
