[GNHLUG] Seacoast/UNH/Durham/SLUG - Mon 15 June - Google Chrome
What : Alternative browsers for the alternative OS Date : Mon 15 June 2010 Time : 7 PM to 9 PM Where: Room 301, Morse Hall, UNH, Durham, NH This month at SLUG, we will be exploring Chrome[1], Google's web browser. Chrome has been available for Linux for some time now, but just recently had the Beta label removed (although with Google, there's not really much of a difference). I (Ben) thought it might be interesting to explore Chrome a bit more. I'll show off the obvious to those who haven't seen it before. Then we'll all explore what's out there for add-ons and extensions, and try and look under the hood. We'll be making this up as we go along[2], so bring your laptop and join the discovery.Free copy of Google Chrome to anyone who attends. If that can't fill two hours, we'll check out the latest incarnation of the Opera[3] web browser, too. [1] http://www.google.com/chrome [2] Like that's anything new ;-) [3] http://www.opera.com/browser/ === About SLUG === SLUG is the Seacoast Linux User Group, and is a chapter of GNHLUG, the Greater NH Linux User Group. Rob Anderson is the SLUG coordinator, and reliably comes up with interesting topics each month. SLUG meets the second Monday of every month, same time, same place. You can find out more about SLUG and GNHLUG at their websites. http://slug.gnhlug.org http://www.gnhlug.org Meetings take place starting at 7:00 PM. Meetings are open to all. The meeting proper ends around 9ish, but it's not uncommon to find hangers-on there until 10 or later. They take place in Room 301 (the third floor conference room), of Morse Hall, at the University of New Hampshire, in Durham. ___ gnhlug-announce mailing list gnhlug-annou...@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-announce/ ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Broadcom WiFi -- for a public library -- in Fedora 13 maybe?
I got an e-mail a couple of weeks ago, from a public library in a small New Hampshire town, with the subject HELP SAVE US FROM MICROSOFT! (I am not making this up.) Such a plea caused me to do some perhaps-foolish things. I called the library; I volunteered to help them; I omitted to ask what hardware was involved. Turns out they had acquired a pair of Dell E5500 laptops (under a Gates Foundation grant, I believe), and of course the machines came with you-know-who's software. And not just the operating system, but a selection of add-on cruft including DeepFreeze and role management apps, the combination of which proved to be a nightmare and impossible to get or keep working. Eventually someone suggested to the library that the Linux community might be able to help; somehow my name came up, and I received the HELP SAVE US message. After an initial visit, I burned a Fedora 13 live CD for them to try, took it over to the library, booted it and showed it off. All OK. But then the zinger: of COURSE...they only use wireless. And of COURSE...the laptop has a Broadcom Wifi adapter. And of course it doesn't work. I've spent today so far researching. I searched my GNHLUG archives and found only one discussion, circa 2/22.(*) From the Web it looks like fwcutter, proprietary firmware copyrights, kernel modules...pretty ugly. (And Latitudes use Nvidia, but it does seem that Fedora 13 has the Nvidia part working.) Does anyone have experience, either with this laptop (Dell Dimension E5500) or with getting a $#! Broadcom adapter to work (a 4318 apparently) -- or experience which justifies a decision to just not do this? Many thanks! Be_careful_what_you_volunteer_for'ly yrs, -Bill (*) 2/22: Wherein Alan Johnson offers the clearly definitive advice, In any case, be sure to steer clear of Broadcom. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Broadcom WiFi -- for a public library -- in Fedora 13 maybe?
On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 2:11 PM, Bill Sconce sco...@in-spec-inc.com wrote: After an initial visit, I burned a Fedora 13 live CD for them to try, took it over to the library, booted it and showed it off. All OK. But then the zinger: of COURSE...they only use wireless. And of COURSE...the laptop has a Broadcom Wifi adapter. And of course it doesn't work. I've since install Ubuntu 9.10 on a really old Dell laptop with broadcom wifi and it works beautifully. It is not there right after install, but when connected wired, it hardware driver tool finds the necessary packages and installs them with minimal effort. You must simply agree to the warnings about installing prorpietary crap, and it just works. That said, I don't believe all broadcoms are the same, so YMMV, but it is worth a shot IMHO. If it were me, I'd tried 10.04 first since that is long term service. In full disclosure, this machine was rebuild for my son to use with an Arduino board I got him for his 5th birthday, so it has not spent much time in the on state. So, I can't speak explicitly to stability, but I never had trouble keeping these Broadcoms on line once they were on. (*) 2/22: Wherein Alan Johnson offers the clearly definitive advice, In any case, be sure to steer clear of Broadcom. Awe, shucks. =) Also, I think that same thread lists several very cheap USB wifi options that just work in Linux. You can find a nice list of them some where on wiki.ubuntu.com and I expect Fedora has something similar. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Broadcom WiFi -- for a public library -- in Fedora 13 maybe?
Bill Sconce wrote: But then the zinger: of COURSE...they only use wireless. And of COURSE...the laptop has a Broadcom Wifi adapter. And of course it doesn't work. My netbook reports having a Network controller: Broadcom Corporation BCM4312 802.11b/g (rev 01). It's currently running Ubuntu 10.04, with the proprietary broadcom drives (installed by the handy Hardware Drivers application). I didn't have to do any work to get it going ... just installed the driver and all was seemingly well. This is not intended as a my distro is better than insert other distro - just a data point that it worked fine for me. -- Cole Tuininga Lead Developer co...@code-energy.com ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Broadcom WiFi -- for a public library -- in Fedora 13 maybe?
On 06/10/2010 02:30 PM, Alan Johnson wrote: On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 2:11 PM, Bill Sconce sco...@in-spec-inc.com mailto:sco...@in-spec-inc.com wrote: After an initial visit, I burned a Fedora 13 live CD for them to try, took it over to the library, booted it and showed it off. All OK. But then the zinger: of COURSE...they only use wireless. And of COURSE...the laptop has a Broadcom Wifi adapter. And of course it doesn't work. I've since install Ubuntu 9.10 on a really old Dell laptop with broadcom wifi and it works beautifully. It is not there right after install, but when connected wired, it hardware driver tool finds the necessary packages and installs them with minimal effort. You must simply agree to the warnings about installing prorpietary crap, and it just works. That said, I don't believe all broadcoms are the same, so YMMV, but it is worth a shot IMHO. If it were me, I'd tried 10.04 first since that is long term service. In full disclosure, this machine was rebuild for my son to use with an Arduino board I got him for his 5th birthday, so it has not spent much time in the on state. So, I can't speak explicitly to stability, but I never had trouble keeping these Broadcoms on line once they were on. (*) 2/22: Wherein Alan Johnson offers the clearly definitive advice, In any case, be sure to steer clear of Broadcom. Awe, shucks. =) Also, I think that same thread lists several very cheap USB wifi options that just work in Linux. You can find a nice list of them some where on wiki.ubuntu.com http://wiki.ubuntu.com and I expect Fedora has something similar. Most Broadcom chips work fine in Linux. Like Alan, my laptop is running fine with Ubuntu 9.10, but it also ran SuSE and Fedora. First of all you need to install /b43/-/fwcutter. This tool is needed to extract and install the firmware. The ubuntu packages for fwcutter will prompt you to automatically download and install the firmware, but other distros do not. I recently helped a guy at the installfest who was installing Linux Mint. In his case, rather than doing it the manual way I removed the fwcutter package he installed and installed the Ubuntu 9.10 version. His wireless worked after that. /Here is a pretty decent site that tells you how to install fwcutter and the firmware: http://wireless.kernel.org/en/users/Drivers/b43. Additionally, do not use ndiswrapper unless you absolutely have to. That is like flying a 150 upside down with a manual fuel pump. -- Jerry Feldman g...@blu.org Boston Linux and Unix PGP key id: 537C5846 PGP Key fingerprint: 3D1B 8377 A3C0 A5F2 ECBB CA3B 4607 4319 537C 5846 signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Broadcom WiFi -- for a public library -- in Fedora 13 maybe?
On 06/10/2010 02:33 PM, Cole Tuininga wrote: Bill Sconce wrote: But then the zinger: of COURSE...they only use wireless. And of COURSE...the laptop has a Broadcom Wifi adapter. And of course it doesn't work. My netbook reports having a Network controller: Broadcom Corporation BCM4312 802.11b/g (rev 01). It's currently running Ubuntu 10.04, with the proprietary broadcom drives (installed by the handy Hardware Drivers application). I didn't have to do any work to get it going ... just installed the driver and all was seemingly well. This is not intended as a my distro is better than insert other distro - just a data point that it worked fine for me. Coreection my laptop is currently running 10.04 not 9.10 not that it matters -- Jerry Feldman g...@blu.org Boston Linux and Unix PGP key id: 537C5846 PGP Key fingerprint: 3D1B 8377 A3C0 A5F2 ECBB CA3B 4607 4319 537C 5846 signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Broadcom WiFi -- for a public library -- in Fedora 13 maybe?
Google results seem to suggest for Fedora that you have 2 options: * Get the proprietary Broadcom firmware and use the fw-cutter tool to extract the firmware and drop it in /lib/firmware http://linuxwireless.org/en/users/Drivers/b43#device_firmware_installation * Use the open rewrite/replacement from the OpenFWWF project which is allegedly as simple as a yum install b43-openfwwf Project: http://www.ing.unibs.it/openfwwf/ Forum post where I read about it: http://fedoraforum.org/forum/showthread.php?t=228418 -Shawn On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 2:11 PM, Bill Sconce sco...@in-spec-inc.com wrote: I got an e-mail a couple of weeks ago, from a public library in a small New Hampshire town, with the subject HELP SAVE US FROM MICROSOFT! (I am not making this up.) Such a plea caused me to do some perhaps-foolish things. I called the library; I volunteered to help them; I omitted to ask what hardware was involved. Turns out they had acquired a pair of Dell E5500 laptops (under a Gates Foundation grant, I believe), and of course the machines came with you-know-who's software. And not just the operating system, but a selection of add-on cruft including DeepFreeze and role management apps, the combination of which proved to be a nightmare and impossible to get or keep working. Eventually someone suggested to the library that the Linux community might be able to help; somehow my name came up, and I received the HELP SAVE US message. After an initial visit, I burned a Fedora 13 live CD for them to try, took it over to the library, booted it and showed it off. All OK. But then the zinger: of COURSE...they only use wireless. And of COURSE...the laptop has a Broadcom Wifi adapter. And of course it doesn't work. I've spent today so far researching. I searched my GNHLUG archives and found only one discussion, circa 2/22.(*) From the Web it looks like fwcutter, proprietary firmware copyrights, kernel modules...pretty ugly. (And Latitudes use Nvidia, but it does seem that Fedora 13 has the Nvidia part working.) Does anyone have experience, either with this laptop (Dell Dimension E5500) or with getting a $#! Broadcom adapter to work (a 4318 apparently) -- or experience which justifies a decision to just not do this? Many thanks! Be_careful_what_you_volunteer_for'ly yrs, -Bill (*) 2/22: Wherein Alan Johnson offers the clearly definitive advice, In any case, be sure to steer clear of Broadcom. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/ ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Broadcom WiFi -- for a public library -- in Fedora 13 maybe?
On Thu, 10 Jun 2010 14:11:01 -0400 Bill Sconce sco...@in-spec-inc.com wrote: Does anyone have experience, either with this laptop (Dell Dimension E5500) or with getting a $#! Broadcom adapter to work (a 4318 apparently) Wow. Before I could finish typing this after interruption I see several have pointed out my suggestions which is to try Ubuntu. It has quite a few debs for proprietary drivers including some Broadcom Wireless cards which have worked for me in the past. -- Ed Lawson Ham Callsign: K1VP PGP Key ID: 1591EAD3 PGP Key Fingerprint: 79A1 CDC3 EF3D 7F93 1D28 2D42 58E4 2287 1591 EAD3 ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Broadcom WiFi -- for a public library -- in Fedora 13 maybe?
On 06/10/2010 02:35 PM, kenta wrote: Why not use fwcutter? I used it recently with Ubuntu 10 .04 on an aging Dell laptop (I don't remember the model, but it was about an 2 inch thick brick of a laptop). It too had a Broadcomm chip based wireless adapter and after an apt-get and hitting OK a few times I was on 'net in under 5 minutes. The alternative for broadcom's seems to be to setup NDISWRAPPER with the windows driver which takes some additional time. If my memory serves me correctly, a lot more of a hassle. As I mentioned, the Ubuntu version of b43_fwcutter package will automatically prompt you to download the firmware, but other distros do not. What fwcutter does is to cut out the firmware from the windows driver and with the appropriate options place it into /lib/modules/kernel version/kernel/drivers/firmware. If you take a look at dmesg, you will see that the b43 driver fails because the firmware has not been loaded. -- Jerry Feldman g...@blu.org Boston Linux and Unix PGP key id: 537C5846 PGP Key fingerprint: 3D1B 8377 A3C0 A5F2 ECBB CA3B 4607 4319 537C 5846 signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Broadcom WiFi -- for a public library -- in Fedora 13 maybe?
On 06/10/2010 02:11 PM, Bill Sconce wrote: (I am not making this up.) Such a plea caused me to do some perhaps-foolish things. I called the library; I volunteered to help them; I omitted to ask what hardware was involved. No good deed goes unpunished. Does anyone have experience, either with this laptop (Dell Dimension E5500) or with getting a $#! Broadcom adapter to work (a 4318 apparently) -- or experience which justifies a decision to just not do this? Linksys uses Broadcom drivers in their wireless access points, so apparently I've gotten quite a few drivers working. I stumbled across this page which seems to have a lot of suggestions, Fedora-specific: http://forums.fedoraforum.org/archive/index.php/t-239922.html As an alternative, you might suggest they buy a wireless card which is supportable, but then you'll be responsible for identifying the correct card: ExpressCard, CardBus, PCMCIA and which vendor is using which chip in which revision... -- Ted Roche Ted Roche Associates, LLC http://www.tedroche.com ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Broadcom WiFi -- for a public library -- in Fedora 13 maybe?
On Thu, 10 Jun 2010 14:11:01 -0400 Bill Sconce sco...@in-spec-inc.com wrote: Does anyone have experience, either with this laptop (Dell Dimension E5500) or with getting a $#! Broadcom adapter to work (a 4318 apparently) -- or experience which justifies a decision to just not do this? Look at that! Before I can even get back from customer site to check my mail, a whole stream of replies -- and most significantly, an answer to the last question. (I.e., don't give up.) Thanks to everyone who responded. I'll do some more reading and choose a new approach. The library shall have its laptops FREE OF MICROSOFT after all! More later... -Bill ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Broadcom WiFi -- for a public library -- in Fedora 13 maybe?
On Thu, 10 Jun 2010 16:50:27 -0400 Bill Sconce sco...@in-spec-inc.com wrote: The library shall have its laptops FREE OF MICROSOFT after all! More later... Of course you could go crazy and turn them into thin clients. You have seen how well that works as I recall in an educational environment. Might be a gig there...as if you needed one. Ed Lawson Ham Callsign: K1VP PGP Key ID: 1591EAD3 PGP Key Fingerprint: 79A1 CDC3 EF3D 7F93 1D28 2D42 58E4 2287 1591 EAD3 ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Broadcom WiFi -- for a public library -- in Fedora 13 maybe?
On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 2:43 PM, Shawn O'Shea sh...@eth0.net wrote: Google results seem to suggest for Fedora that you have 2 options: * Get the proprietary Broadcom firmware and use the fw-cutter tool to extract the firmware and drop it in /lib/firmware http://linuxwireless.org/en/users/Drivers/b43#device_firmware_installation * Use the open rewrite/replacement from the OpenFWWF project which is allegedly as simple as a yum install b43-openfwwf Project: http://www.ing.unibs.it/openfwwf/ Forum post where I read about it: http://fedoraforum.org/forum/showthread.php?t=228418 There's an option #3 for Broadcom wifi cards, Broadcom's hybrid-wl driver, which I suspect is what Cole is running on Ubuntu, and which is also packaged for Fedora in the RPM Fusion repositories. http://www.broadcom.com/support/802.11/linux_sta.php http://download1.rpmfusion.org/nonfree/fedora/updates/13/x86_64/kmod-wl-2.6.33.5-112.fc13.x86_64-5.60.48.36-1.fc13.7.x86_64.rpm On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 2:11 PM, Bill Sconce sco...@in-spec-inc.com wrote: I got an e-mail a couple of weeks ago, from a public library in a small New Hampshire town, with the subject HELP SAVE US FROM MICROSOFT! (I am not making this up.) Such a plea caused me to do some perhaps-foolish things. I called the library; I volunteered to help them; I omitted to ask what hardware was involved. Turns out they had acquired a pair of Dell E5500 laptops (under a Gates Foundation grant, I believe), and of course the machines came with you-know-who's software. And not just the operating system, but a selection of add-on cruft including DeepFreeze and role management apps, the combination of which proved to be a nightmare and impossible to get or keep working. Eventually someone suggested to the library that the Linux community might be able to help; somehow my name came up, and I received the HELP SAVE US message. After an initial visit, I burned a Fedora 13 live CD for them to try, took it over to the library, booted it and showed it off. All OK. But then the zinger: of COURSE...they only use wireless. And of COURSE...the laptop has a Broadcom Wifi adapter. And of course it doesn't work. I've spent today so far researching. I searched my GNHLUG archives and found only one discussion, circa 2/22.(*) From the Web it looks like fwcutter, proprietary firmware copyrights, kernel modules...pretty ugly. (And Latitudes use Nvidia, but it does seem that Fedora 13 has the Nvidia part working.) Does anyone have experience, either with this laptop (Dell Dimension E5500) or with getting a $#! Broadcom adapter to work (a 4318 apparently) -- or experience which justifies a decision to just not do this? Many thanks! Be_careful_what_you_volunteer_for'ly yrs, -Bill (*) 2/22: Wherein Alan Johnson offers the clearly definitive advice, In any case, be sure to steer clear of Broadcom. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/ ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/ -- Jarod Wilson ja...@wilsonet.com ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Broadcom WiFi -- for a public library -- in Fedora 13 maybe?
On 6/10/2010 2:11 PM, Bill Sconce wrote: I got an e-mail a couple of weeks ago, from a public library in a small New Hampshire town, with the subject HELP SAVE US FROM MICROSOFT! (I am not making this up.) Such a plea caused me to do some perhaps-foolish things. I called the library; I volunteered to help them; I omitted to ask what hardware was involved. Does anyone have experience, either with this laptop (Dell Dimension E5500) or with getting a $#! Broadcom adapter to work (a 4318 apparently) -- or experience which justifies a decision to just not do this? I've had almost no trouble getting Broadcom to work with Ubuntu and Mandriva distros. Just get the most current versions. I haven't had as much luck with Fedora and Centos, though I didn't really try to; just gave the folk network cards which did work and put the Broadcoms in Windows laptops. (I had a surplus of laptops to exchange components between, and an enormous time crunch to just get things working.) ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Broadcom WiFi -- for a public library -- in Fedora 13 maybe?
Dan Jenkins d...@rastech.com writes: On 6/10/2010 2:11 PM, Bill Sconce wrote: I got an e-mail a couple of weeks ago, from a public library in a small New Hampshire town, with the subject HELP SAVE US FROM MICROSOFT! (I am not making this up.) Such a plea caused me to do some perhaps-foolish things. I called the library; I volunteered to help them; I omitted to ask what hardware was involved. Does anyone have experience, either with this laptop (Dell Dimension E5500) or with getting a $#! Broadcom adapter to work (a 4318 apparently) -- or experience which justifies a decision to just not do this? I've had almost no trouble getting Broadcom to work with Ubuntu and Mandriva distros. Just get the most current versions. I haven't had as much luck with Fedora and Centos, though I didn't really try to; just gave the folk network cards which did work and put the Broadcoms in Windows laptops. (I had a surplus of laptops to exchange components between, and an enormous time crunch to just get things working.) I just had a thought along those lines, myself: depending on how much Bill's time is worth to him, might it actually make sense to just donate the $10-per ($20 total?) required to buy Linux-compatible WiFi adaptors? -- Don't be afraid to ask (λf.((λx.xx) (λr.f(rr. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Broadcom WiFi -- for a public library -- in Fedora 13 maybe?
On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 5:56 PM, Ed lawson elaw...@grizzy.com wrote: On Thu, 10 Jun 2010 16:50:27 -0400 Bill Sconce sco...@in-spec-inc.com wrote: The library shall have its laptops FREE OF MICROSOFT after all! More later... Of course you could go crazy and turn them into thin clients. You have seen how well that works as I recall in an educational environment. Might be a gig there...as if you needed one. Thin clients over wifi? Ew, no thanks. :) -- Jarod Wilson ja...@wilsonet.com ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
Re: Broadcom WiFi -- for a public library -- in Fedora 13 maybe?
On 06/10/2010 05:32 PM, Joshua Judson Rosen wrote: Dan Jenkins d...@rastech.com writes: I haven't had as much luck with Fedora and Centos, though I didn't really try to; just gave the folk network cards which did work and put the Broadcoms in Windows laptops. (I had a surplus of laptops to exchange components between, and an enormous time crunch to just get things working.) I just had a thought along those lines, myself: depending on how much Bill's time is worth to him, might it actually make sense to just donate the $10-per ($20 total?) required to buy Linux-compatible WiFi adaptors? That was my very first thought as well. I was even going to ask what library it was. If it's one of the ones I visit, I'd be willing to chip in (or outright pay for it) too. If there are a lot of libraries being infected with Micros~1 generosity someone should form a roving band of Software Freedom Fighters... ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/