Re: Remote Debian install?

[Andrew W. Gaunt]

http://www.addertec.com/products/remote_ip/adderlink_ip.html
Adding tho this thread of remote control, we've looked into this box
and have placed an order for one with an 8 port KVM (e/w cables etc).
The  addertec rep. (Tim Conway in NBPT) provided an online demo
for us which was quite impressive. It uses VNC to connect one to a
virtualized remote console. The client is a proprietary (some added
security) version of the VNC client -- Ugh...
It should work well in our situation where we have a gaggle of
intel arch. linux and windoze servers that can be difficult to get to
remotely. This box will allow us switch between 8 (more if the KVM
is expanded/chained) boxen and get right down to the Bios screen
if necessary. There is a remote power option that requires additional
hardware. We have not opted for it as some of our servers have
three power cords connected to independent UPS circuits.
I think I can cobble up somethimg on my own to provide remote
hardware resets, anyone have an idea on that one?

Bill McGonigle wrote:
On Nov 29, 2004, at 13:09, Marc Nozell wrote:
Vendor plug: The iLO in most hp/Compaq ProLiants take the fear out of
remote installs.

This looks pretty neat - I haven't used an integrated solution before:
  http://h18004.www1.hp.com/products/quickspecs/10861_div/10861_div.html
Very convenient, probably necessarily insecure too.  I wonder if you 
can flash the firmware without a system reboot.

-Bill

Bill McGonigle, Owner   Work: 603.448.4440
BFC Computing, LLC  Home: 603.448.1668
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Re: Remote Debian install?

[Bill McGonigle]

On Nov 29, 2004, at 13:09, Marc Nozell wrote:
Vendor plug: The iLO in most hp/Compaq ProLiants take the fear out of
remote installs.
This looks pretty neat - I haven't used an integrated solution before:
  http://h18004.www1.hp.com/products/quickspecs/10861_div/10861_div.html
Very convenient, probably necessarily insecure too.  I wonder if you 
can flash the firmware without a system reboot.

-Bill

Bill McGonigle, Owner   Work: 603.448.4440
BFC Computing, LLC  Home: 603.448.1668
[EMAIL PROTECTED]   Cell: 603.252.2606
http://www.bfccomputing.com/Text: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: Remote Debian install?

[Marc Nozell]

On Thu, 2004-11-25 at 11:41, Ken D'Ambrosio wrote:
> Hi, all.  I've got a machine I want to install Debian on.  So far, so 
> good.  Now the bad news: it's in California, at a hosting service.  It's 
> running RH (Fedora).  I can get the hosting service to install Debian 
> for me, but it'll cost me $150.  Can anyone think of a mechanism by 
> which I could install Debian from a RH box?
> 

http://twiki.iwethey.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/DebianChrootInstall

I've used these steps to convert a local system from RH9 to debian.
Granted I was right in front of the system when I did it, but it should
work just fine. 

Vendor plug: The iLO in most hp/Compaq ProLiants take the fear out of
remote installs.

-marc
-- 
Marc Nozell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

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Re: Remote Debian install?

[Jeff Smith]

On  Sat, 27 Nov 2004, Derek Martin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
said:


> On Fri, Nov 26, 2004 at 08:57:16PM -0500, Bill Mullen
wrote:
>> Rather than setting up the Debian install as the default
option in 
RH's
>> lilo.conf (as I had originally suggested), a more
prudent approach would
>> be to leave the default set to RH, run "/sbin/lilo -v"
to write out the
>> new MBR, and then run "/sbin/lilo -R debian" (assuming
that "debian" is
>> the label you gave to the new "image=" entry).

> You can do this with grub also, though I don't remember
how.
> Presumably the info documentation will have it.

Set a "Default=" with whatever the name of your red-hat
system is.  I've got mine set up to default to "Safe" 
which is my known working solution.  

jeff
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Re: Remote Debian install?

[Derek Martin]

On Fri, Nov 26, 2004 at 08:57:16PM -0500, Bill Mullen wrote:
> Rather than setting up the Debian install as the default option in RH's
> lilo.conf (as I had originally suggested), a more prudent approach would
> be to leave the default set to RH, run "/sbin/lilo -v" to write out the
> new MBR, and then run "/sbin/lilo -R debian" (assuming that "debian" is
> the label you gave to the new "image=" entry).

You can do this with grub also, though I don't remember how.
Presumably the info documentation will have it.

-- 
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Re: Remote Debian install?

[Bill Mullen]

On Fri, 2004-11-26 at 10:44, Ken D'Ambrosio wrote:
> Between Randy's and Bill's replies, I think I've figured it out.  Please 
> let me know if anyone sees any holes in it:
> 
> 1) Log into my RH box.
1a) Run swapoff. ;)
> 2) Take the swap partition out of /etc/fstab.
> 3) Fdisk the swap partition to be type 83, and format it with a "real" FS.
> 4) Do a minimal install of Debian on a machine local to me.
> 5) Tar the files over (via SSH or somesuch) to the RH box's former swap 
> partition.
> 6) Configure /etc/fstab to reflect its new reality.
> 7) MAKE SURE that networking (modules and config) are correct.
> 8) MAKE SURE that ssh is set to start automatically.
> 9) Make the bootloader on the RH side point to the Debian side.
> 10) Type "reboot", and hope...
> 
> Assuming it comes up, I've got a minimal Debian install.

It occurs to me that if RH is now using lilo as its bootloader, you are
lucky, as this gives you a useful safety valve in the event that the
Debian install *doesn't* boot properly for whatever reason.

Rather than setting up the Debian install as the default option in RH's
lilo.conf (as I had originally suggested), a more prudent approach would
be to leave the default set to RH, run "/sbin/lilo -v" to write out the
new MBR, and then run "/sbin/lilo -R debian" (assuming that "debian" is
the label you gave to the new "image=" entry).

When you reboot, the "debian" option will be selected, even though the
default remains intact. If it fails, all it takes is asking the host to
reboot the machine manually, and it will come back up running RH again.

One hopes that they don't charge an arm and a leg for a button push. :)

The only other consideration that comes to mind as a possible obstacle
to a successful Debian boot is the initrd file that will be created on
the local Debian machine, and then used on the target system; if the
target box has SCSI drives, or anything else that would require one or
more kernel modules to be present in the initrd, you may need to remake
the Debian initrd to include them. An examination of the current RH
install (lsmod, etc.) should tell you if this will be necessary or not,
and if it is, which module(s) you'll need.

You should be able to work "within" the Debian install on the remote
system, at least to some extent, while RH is running by doing:

mount -t proc proc /mnt/debian/proc
chroot /mnt/debian /bin/bash
source /etc/profile

Hopefully, this will let you run mkinitrd or whatever else is needed to
tweak Debian into a working state. At the very least, apt-get and such
should work properly from here. If you need to remake the initrd file,
though, it'd probably be easier to just do that on the local install and
then copy the thus-created file over to the remote one. If RH uses lilo,
you'll have to run /sbin/lilo again after replacing the Deb initrd file.

-- 
Bill Mullen
RLU# 270075

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Re: Remote Debian install?

[Bill McGonigle]

Make sure you know all the features your hosting service offers.
For instance, I recently found out my ISP (1&1) has a spot on the 
control panel where you can switch your machine from booting from disk 
to booting to a vanilla Debian image (CD?  PXE?  Terminal Servers? - 
their boot-fu is stronger than mine) complete with your account 
password as root.

It got me out of a kernel upgrade where the new kernel had the network 
module not working under insmod (had to statically build it in).  
There's a bad feeling very deep inside when you reboot that server in 
New York and the pings never start coming back...

In your case, doing a debian upgrade would be a snap if you had this.
-Bill

Bill McGonigle, Owner   Work: 603.448.4440
BFC Computing, LLC  Home: 603.448.1668
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Re: Remote Debian install?

[Randy Edwards]

 >From there, you only need to fiddle with the /boot/grub/menu.lst to
 > make sure it's pointing to the right kernel and boot partition.  Double
 > check that menu.lst -- I've been bitten more than once relying on Debian's
 > auto-detect-the-kernels when booting from an odd root partition.
 
   Whoops, I should have said ...check menu.lst and run "update-grub" 
afterwards.

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Re: Remote Debian install?

[Randy Edwards]

 > Assuming it comes up, I've got a minimal Debian install.

   It always works that smoothly in my assumptions too. :-)  (I assume you're 
testing this on a local box just to make sure you don't have to blow $150, 
eh?)

 > I've tried to install GRUB from scratch before, and failed -- and RTFM'ing
 > was kind of opaque.

   Is that what they call that black color?!  My French was never that 
good. :-)

 > Can  anyone supply me with the magick(tm) one-line command that would
 > install GRUB with a /boot/vmlinuz kernel, from partition /dev/hda4?

   Debian includes a magical "grub-install" command.  It'll probe your 
disks/BIOS and set up the master boot record.

   From there, you only need to fiddle with the /boot/grub/menu.lst to make 
sure it's pointing to the right kernel and boot partition.  Double check that 
menu.lst -- I've been bitten more than once relying on Debian's 
auto-detect-the-kernels when booting from an odd root partition.

 Regards,
 .
 Randy

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Re: Remote Debian install?

[Ken D'Ambrosio]

Between Randy's and Bill's replies, I think I've figured it out.  Please 
let me know if anyone sees any holes in it:

1) Log into my RH box.
2) Take the swap partition out of /etc/fstab.
3) Fdisk the swap partition to be type 83, and format it with a "real" FS.
4) Do a minimal install of Debian on a machine local to me.
5) Tar the files over (via SSH or somesuch) to the RH box's former swap 
partition.
6) Configure /etc/fstab to reflect its new reality.
7) MAKE SURE that networking (modules and config) are correct.
8) MAKE SURE that ssh is set to start automatically.
9) Make the bootloader on the RH side point to the Debian side.
10) Type "reboot", and hope...

Assuming it comes up, I've got a minimal Debian install.  As far as I 
see, here comes the hard part.  Because now I want to blow away the RH 
stuff.  Which means I really should install a new bootloader.  LILO is 
the one I'm more familiar with installing from scratch, but it also 
seems to be the one where you wind up looking at a lot of 
0101010101010101 or somesuch on the console.  I've tried to install GRUB 
from scratch before, and failed -- and RTFM'ing was kind of opaque. Can 
anyone supply me with the magick(tm) one-line command that would install 
GRUB with a /boot/vmlinuz kernel, from partition /dev/hda4?  I'm 
conversant enough with the menu.lst file that I don't think I'll need 
any help there.

Thanks!
-Ken
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Re: Remote Debian install?

[Randy Edwards]

 > Can anyone think of a mechanism by which I could install Debian from a RH
 > box? 

   Far be it for me to give a RTFM answer, but have you checked out the docs 
at 
?

   There exists a number of how-tos on upgrading Red Hat to Debian.  As I 
recall, most were from the RH 6/7 days, and I'm not sure if they'd work on 
later versions or remotely, but there are a lot of people who have gone that 
route.  Myself, I don't know what my confidence level would be in such an 
upgrade for a production server, but for a hobbyist-type box and considering 
any stupid move would have a max "dumb fee" of $150, it's worth a shot... :-)

 > P.S.  Two cents' worth (har) re: credit unions: DCU.  I love 'em.

   I agree wholeheartedly.  I had a job once where one of the benefits was a 
membership to NorthEast CU in Portsmouth.  That was the only thing good about 
that job.  I've used that CU for about 20 years, as I've lived in many 
states.  NECU had electronic banking (Sun-based) long before it came into 
vogue and I couldn't be happier with their fees and service.

   There's something about the way CUs are oriented towards their 
customers/owners -- compared to a normal commercial bank which is oriented 
first and foremost towards their stockholders -- that is simply a superior 
way of doing business.

 Regards,
 .
 Randy

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blind person) Helen Keller, 1911.

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Re: Remote Debian install?

[Bill Mullen]

On Thu, 2004-11-25 at 11:41, Ken D'Ambrosio wrote:

> Hi, all.  I've got a machine I want to install Debian on.  So far, so 
> good.  Now the bad news: it's in California, at a hosting service. 
> It's running RH (Fedora).  I can get the hosting service to install
> Debian for me, but it'll cost me $150.  Can anyone think of a
> mechanism by which I could install Debian from a RH box?

I'm not up on the various ways one can install Debian, but you could do
this with Gentoo easily enough; perhaps there is a parallel method for
Debian? The key is to create new partitions for the new install - you
won't be able to install "over" the existing RH install remotely.

http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/handbook/handbook-x86.xml?part=1&chap=0

I suppose that one could ... 

1. Create a fairly minimal Debian install locally, on any convenient
partition, to form the basis for your target system (you can flesh it
out later, once it's up & running on the target box);

2. Configure the networking on this local install as would be correct on
the target system (as to IP address, gateway, resolv.conf);

3. Install sshd & configure it to run at boot time;

4. Edit /etc/mod{ules,probe}.conf to load the correct module for the NIC
on the target system;

5. Edit /etc/fstab to reflect where the various partitions will live on
the target system;

6. Shut it down, reboot the box to another Linux (either one installed
on that system or one on a livecd/rescue disk, doesn't matter);

5. Tar up the entire Debian installation into a single tarball;

6. Use scp to get the tarball onto the target box;

7. Ssh in and create the new partitions, mkfs 'em, and mount them as
/mnt/debian (this will be Debian's root partition), /mnt/debian/usr,
/mnt/debian/var, etc.;

8. "cd /mnt/debian && tar xzvf /path/to/tarball.tar.gz";

9. Adjust the RH bootloader config to add an entry for the Debian kernel
& root partition, and make that the default option (if RH uses lilo,
don't forget to run "/sbin/lilo -v" after editing /etc/lilo.conf );

10. Reboot, ssh in, re-configure the bootloader from the Debian install
(thereby rewriting the RH-created MBR with one created from Debian);

11. Reboot once more, ssh in again, and take it from there.

I hope I haven't left anything out ... who knows, it just might work! ;)


HTH!

-- 
Bill Mullen
RLU# 270075

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