Re: tech recruiters you like?

2016-09-01 Thread Michael ODonnell 
I shouted with joy when it was announced that the completely vile
practice of prospective employers demanding that you reveal your
compensation history will (at least in MA) become illegal next year:

   http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/03/business/dealbook/wage-gap-massachusetts-l
aw-salary-history.html

...and even though it's reported as being intended largely to defend
against gender discrimination it is *long* overdue in all cases.
Our skills/abilities/services have a market value and it's arrogant
for a prospective employer to attempt to decide what's "proper" based
on whatever our previous circumstances were; if I was overpaid in my
previous gig it's not their responsibility to perpetuate that error,
and if I was underpaid they are not somehow entitled to continue
the punishment, either.

I'm mentioning this because in my experience headhunters/ recruiters
ask early and often for lots of sensitive info about a candidate's
circumstances (not just compensation) while offering as little as
possible in return.  This new legislation applies directly to them
because in many cases they end up being your employer in contract
situations, even though it's easy to forget that because you may
never lay eyes on them or their place of business.

I've had some success deflecting rudely inapprpriate questions
along these lines by ignoring them and countering with:

   What do you know about the client?
   Do you have an existing relationship?
   What do you know about the hiring manager(s)?  the team?
 [ Too often, they only know what
   they've scraped off the prospective
   client's WWW site, ie.  nothing...  ]
   What's their budget?
   What rate would you intend to charge them for my services?
   What rate are you offering me?
   How do you account for the difference?"

...etc.  Obviously, every situation is different; sometimes
we're in the driver's seat and sometimes we're nearly powerless,
often it's a distasteful mix.

  --M




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Re: tech recruiters you like?

2016-09-01 Thread Tom Buskey 
+1 on Social networking (& LinkedIn to a lesser part)

Where I am now is a small group (10-15).  We all have 10+ years of
experience (20+) and the youngest is 41(!).  We want people we can work
with when we hire so internal recommendations go to the top of the list.

We were bought in Jan and HR changed.  Formally, we used recruiters.  The
new company wants to do it internally on the web sites from outside
Boston.  We didn't get many candidates with the recruiters (how many 15+ yr
Java devs with Cloud experience are there?) and probably will have fewer
with the new HR.

Put a keyword search at the end of the resume for Monster, LinkedIn and
internal scanning services.  I remember someone missing a cut because he
had Unix but not Solaris, Linux, etc.  He had a friend bring him in that
got past HR & the scanner.

A followup email/call/letter goes a long ways.  Most interviewees do not do
them so it makes you stand out.  Managers will remember you if another
position opens up.

If there is a company you're interested in, go to their web site.  It
doesn't cost them $ like Monster, etc.  If they're frugal, they may wait
for internal resources before paying to advertise the position.

My last job search took a month.  A friend with similar sysadmin experience
(18-20 yrs) also took a month.  If you have experience, things are out
there.





On Thu, Sep 1, 2016 at 1:32 PM, Jerry Feldman  wrote:

> As a contractor in the 80s, 90s, and 2000s I almost always used a
> headhunter. but now with LinkedIn, and the other online services companies
> post their jobs and get 1000s or applicants. When I was RA'd by IBM, the
> first thing I did was email a few people I know and that is how I ended up
> at Red Hat. I also host WIND (Wednesday Is Networking Day) on the BLU
> server. Groups like WIND help getting some people together. While I was at
> IBM I had some recruiters contact me, but they never got anything.
>
> Another thing is that your resume (and cover letter) can be very
> important. Remember that the HR people are not going to read your resume,
> they will just look the first few lines. But mostly these days there is
> software that scans it. So, make sure your skills are listed that match the
> job req.
>
> On Thu, Sep 1, 2016 at 11:41 AM, Richard Kolb II 
> wrote:
>
>> I would have to agree with the personal network comments. The last job
>> that I applied for, and got, was in 2003. I've had 3 jobs since then, and
>> they've all been through contacts from linkedin or a personal reference.
>>
>>
>> Richard Kolb II
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 31, 2016 at 9:54 PM, Bill Ricker 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> The ones i liked retired.
>>>
>>> Outplacement firm i worked with most recently said % of jobs found
>>> through personal network is growing. Getting hired as an internal
>>> referral saves them the hassle of dealing with Monster or Zip or ... ,
>>> and is usually better per-screened by the referrer, for free. They
>>> recommended strong use of LinkedIn to reconstruct who you used to know
>>> so you can leverage their eyes and ears.
>>> ___
>>> gnhlug-discuss mailing list
>>> gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org
>>> http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
>>>
>>
>>
>> ___
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>> http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> --
> Jerry Feldman 
> Boston Linux and Unix
> PGP key id: B7F14F2F
> Key fingerprint: D937 A424 4836 E052 2E1B  8DC6 24D7 000F B7F1 4F2F
>
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Re: tech recruiters you like?

2016-09-01 Thread Ken D'Ambrosio 
 

On 2016-09-01 14:39, Richard Kolb II wrote: 

> There's a GNHLUG jobs list?

http://wiki.gnhlug.org/twiki2/bin/view/Www/MailingLists#Jobs_gnhlug_jobs


> Richard Kolb II 
> 
> On Thu, Sep 1, 2016 at 2:27 PM, Ken D'Ambrosio  wrote:
> 
> I've gotten one (1) job -- a contracting gig -- by way of a headhunter, clear 
> back in '91. Since then, I've left my name with a few headhunters, but have 
> gotten no good leads, and one headhunter flat-out tried to screw me over. (Or 
> lied. Or both.) Since I moved to NH in '93, I've gotten one job via Usenet, 
> and the remaining four by way of personal networking. I guess it's hard to 
> overstate just how important that is. One thing to consider is the GNHLUG 
> jobs list, which is how I got my most-recent[-1] job. 
> 
> -Ken 
> 
> On 2016-09-01 13:52, Arc Riley wrote: 
> My experience with recruiters is an extremely high signal:noise ratio. 
> Increasingly, recruiters (not company staff) are conducting phone interviews, 
> setting up on-site interviews themselves, and provide little to no 
> information on the actual position you're interviewing for. 
> I've had recruiters line up job interviews "that you're a perfect match for" 
> that turn out to be for .Net, Ruby, even one that was a windows sysadmin 
> position. I've also shown up for interviews which were not actually scheduled 
> (including Google, who flew me to NYC without actually scheduling the 
> interview) or shown up to find a waiting area full of applicants with staff 
> scrambling to conduct "speed dating" style 15 minute interviews. 
> After it all my recommendation is to mark any contact from a recruiter as 
> spam. To +1 previous advice on this thread, the best way to find a job is 
> going to meetups and making personal connections with employees. 
> 
> On Thu, Sep 1, 2016 at 11:41 AM, Richard Kolb II  
> wrote:
> 
> I would have to agree with the personal network comments. The last job that I 
> applied for, and got, was in 2003. I've had 3 jobs since then, and they've 
> all been through contacts from linkedin or a personal reference. 
> 
> Richard Kolb II 
> 
> On Wed, Aug 31, 2016 at 9:54 PM, Bill Ricker  wrote:
> The ones i liked retired.
> 
> Outplacement firm i worked with most recently said % of jobs found
> through personal network is growing. Getting hired as an internal
> referral saves them the hassle of dealing with Monster or Zip or ... ,
> and is usually better per-screened by the referrer, for free. They
> recommended strong use of LinkedIn to reconstruct who you used to know
> so you can leverage their eyes and ears.
> 
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Re: tech recruiters you like?

2016-09-01 Thread Richard Kolb II 
There's a GNHLUG jobs list?


Richard Kolb II

On Thu, Sep 1, 2016 at 2:27 PM, Ken D'Ambrosio  wrote:

> I've gotten one (1) job -- a contracting gig -- by way of a headhunter,
> clear back in '91.  Since then, I've left my name with a few headhunters,
> but have gotten no good leads, and one headhunter flat-out tried to screw
> me over.  (Or lied.  Or both.)  Since I moved to NH in '93, I've gotten one
> job via Usenet, and the remaining four by way of personal networking.  I
> guess it's hard to overstate just how important that is.  One thing to
> consider is the GNHLUG jobs list, which is how I got my most-recent[-1] job.
>
> -Ken
>
> On 2016-09-01 13:52, Arc Riley wrote:
>
> My experience with recruiters is an extremely high signal:noise
> ratio. Increasingly, recruiters (not company staff) are conducting phone
> interviews, setting up on-site interviews themselves, and provide little to
> no information on the actual position you're interviewing for.
>
> I've had recruiters line up job interviews "that you're a perfect match
> for" that turn out to be for .Net, Ruby, even one that was a windows
> sysadmin position. I've also shown up for interviews which were not
> actually scheduled (including Google, who flew me to NYC without actually
> scheduling the interview) or shown up to find a waiting area full of
> applicants with staff scrambling to conduct "speed dating" style 15 minute
> interviews.
>
> After it all my recommendation is to mark any contact from a recruiter as
> spam. To +1 previous advice on this thread, the best way to find a job is
> going to meetups and making personal connections with employees.
>
> On Thu, Sep 1, 2016 at 11:41 AM, Richard Kolb II 
> wrote:
>
>> I would have to agree with the personal network comments. The last job
>> that I applied for, and got, was in 2003. I've had 3 jobs since then, and
>> they've all been through contacts from linkedin or a personal reference.
>>
>>
>> Richard Kolb II
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 31, 2016 at 9:54 PM, Bill Ricker 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> The ones i liked retired.
>>>
>>> Outplacement firm i worked with most recently said % of jobs found
>>> through personal network is growing. Getting hired as an internal
>>> referral saves them the hassle of dealing with Monster or Zip or ... ,
>>> and is usually better per-screened by the referrer, for free. They
>>> recommended strong use of LinkedIn to reconstruct who you used to know
>>> so you can leverage their eyes and ears.
>>> ___
>>> gnhlug-discuss mailing list
>>> gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org
>>> http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
>>>
>>
>> ___
>> gnhlug-discuss mailing list
>> gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org
>> http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
>>
>
> ___
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> gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org
> http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
>
>
>
>
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Re: tech recruiters you like?

2016-09-01 Thread Ken D'Ambrosio 
 

I've gotten one (1) job -- a contracting gig -- by way of a headhunter,
clear back in '91. Since then, I've left my name with a few headhunters,
but have gotten no good leads, and one headhunter flat-out tried to
screw me over. (Or lied. Or both.) Since I moved to NH in '93, I've
gotten one job via Usenet, and the remaining four by way of personal
networking. I guess it's hard to overstate just how important that is.
One thing to consider is the GNHLUG jobs list, which is how I got my
most-recent[-1] job. 

-Ken 

On 2016-09-01 13:52, Arc Riley wrote: 

> My experience with recruiters is an extremely high signal:noise ratio. 
> Increasingly, recruiters (not company staff) are conducting phone interviews, 
> setting up on-site interviews themselves, and provide little to no 
> information on the actual position you're interviewing for. 
> 
> I've had recruiters line up job interviews "that you're a perfect match for" 
> that turn out to be for .Net, Ruby, even one that was a windows sysadmin 
> position. I've also shown up for interviews which were not actually scheduled 
> (including Google, who flew me to NYC without actually scheduling the 
> interview) or shown up to find a waiting area full of applicants with staff 
> scrambling to conduct "speed dating" style 15 minute interviews. 
> 
> After it all my recommendation is to mark any contact from a recruiter as 
> spam. To +1 previous advice on this thread, the best way to find a job is 
> going to meetups and making personal connections with employees. 
> 
> On Thu, Sep 1, 2016 at 11:41 AM, Richard Kolb II  
> wrote:
> 
> I would have to agree with the personal network comments. The last job that I 
> applied for, and got, was in 2003. I've had 3 jobs since then, and they've 
> all been through contacts from linkedin or a personal reference. 
> 
> Richard Kolb II 
> 
> On Wed, Aug 31, 2016 at 9:54 PM, Bill Ricker  wrote:
> The ones i liked retired.
> 
> Outplacement firm i worked with most recently said % of jobs found
> through personal network is growing. Getting hired as an internal
> referral saves them the hassle of dealing with Monster or Zip or ... ,
> and is usually better per-screened by the referrer, for free. They
> recommended strong use of LinkedIn to reconstruct who you used to know
> so you can leverage their eyes and ears.
> 
> ___
> gnhlug-discuss mailing list
> gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org
> http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/ [1] 
> ___
> gnhlug-discuss mailing list
> gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org
> http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/ [1]

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Re: tech recruiters you like?

2016-09-01 Thread Arc Riley 
My experience with recruiters is an extremely high signal:noise
ratio. Increasingly, recruiters (not company staff) are conducting phone
interviews, setting up on-site interviews themselves, and provide little to
no information on the actual position you're interviewing for.

I've had recruiters line up job interviews "that you're a perfect match
for" that turn out to be for .Net, Ruby, even one that was a windows
sysadmin position. I've also shown up for interviews which were not
actually scheduled (including Google, who flew me to NYC without actually
scheduling the interview) or shown up to find a waiting area full of
applicants with staff scrambling to conduct "speed dating" style 15 minute
interviews.

After it all my recommendation is to mark any contact from a recruiter as
spam. To +1 previous advice on this thread, the best way to find a job is
going to meetups and making personal connections with employees.

On Thu, Sep 1, 2016 at 11:41 AM, Richard Kolb II 
wrote:

> I would have to agree with the personal network comments. The last job
> that I applied for, and got, was in 2003. I've had 3 jobs since then, and
> they've all been through contacts from linkedin or a personal reference.
>
>
> Richard Kolb II
>
> On Wed, Aug 31, 2016 at 9:54 PM, Bill Ricker  wrote:
>
>> The ones i liked retired.
>>
>> Outplacement firm i worked with most recently said % of jobs found
>> through personal network is growing. Getting hired as an internal
>> referral saves them the hassle of dealing with Monster or Zip or ... ,
>> and is usually better per-screened by the referrer, for free. They
>> recommended strong use of LinkedIn to reconstruct who you used to know
>> so you can leverage their eyes and ears.
>> ___
>> gnhlug-discuss mailing list
>> gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org
>> http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
>>
>
>
> ___
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>
>
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Re: tech recruiters you like?

2016-09-01 Thread Jerry Feldman 
As a contractor in the 80s, 90s, and 2000s I almost always used a
headhunter. but now with LinkedIn, and the other online services companies
post their jobs and get 1000s or applicants. When I was RA'd by IBM, the
first thing I did was email a few people I know and that is how I ended up
at Red Hat. I also host WIND (Wednesday Is Networking Day) on the BLU
server. Groups like WIND help getting some people together. While I was at
IBM I had some recruiters contact me, but they never got anything.

Another thing is that your resume (and cover letter) can be very important.
Remember that the HR people are not going to read your resume, they will
just look the first few lines. But mostly these days there is software that
scans it. So, make sure your skills are listed that match the job req.

On Thu, Sep 1, 2016 at 11:41 AM, Richard Kolb II 
wrote:

> I would have to agree with the personal network comments. The last job
> that I applied for, and got, was in 2003. I've had 3 jobs since then, and
> they've all been through contacts from linkedin or a personal reference.
>
>
> Richard Kolb II
>
> On Wed, Aug 31, 2016 at 9:54 PM, Bill Ricker  wrote:
>
>> The ones i liked retired.
>>
>> Outplacement firm i worked with most recently said % of jobs found
>> through personal network is growing. Getting hired as an internal
>> referral saves them the hassle of dealing with Monster or Zip or ... ,
>> and is usually better per-screened by the referrer, for free. They
>> recommended strong use of LinkedIn to reconstruct who you used to know
>> so you can leverage their eyes and ears.
>> ___
>> gnhlug-discuss mailing list
>> gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org
>> http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
>>
>
>
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>
>


-- 
--
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Boston Linux and Unix
PGP key id: B7F14F2F
Key fingerprint: D937 A424 4836 E052 2E1B  8DC6 24D7 000F B7F1 4F2F
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Re: tech recruiters you like?

2016-09-01 Thread Richard Kolb II 
I would have to agree with the personal network comments. The last job that
I applied for, and got, was in 2003. I've had 3 jobs since then, and
they've all been through contacts from linkedin or a personal reference.


Richard Kolb II

On Wed, Aug 31, 2016 at 9:54 PM, Bill Ricker  wrote:

> The ones i liked retired.
>
> Outplacement firm i worked with most recently said % of jobs found
> through personal network is growing. Getting hired as an internal
> referral saves them the hassle of dealing with Monster or Zip or ... ,
> and is usually better per-screened by the referrer, for free. They
> recommended strong use of LinkedIn to reconstruct who you used to know
> so you can leverage their eyes and ears.
> ___
> gnhlug-discuss mailing list
> gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org
> http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss/
>
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Re: tech recruiters you like?

2016-08-31 Thread Bill Ricker 
The ones i liked retired.

Outplacement firm i worked with most recently said % of jobs found
through personal network is growing. Getting hired as an internal
referral saves them the hassle of dealing with Monster or Zip or ... ,
and is usually better per-screened by the referrer, for free. They
recommended strong use of LinkedIn to reconstruct who you used to know
so you can leverage their eyes and ears.
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Re: tech recruiters you like?

2016-08-31 Thread Brian Chabot 
These folks have been good to me in the past:
http://workbridgeassociates.com/

Tell them Brian Chabot sent you.

Brian

Brian Chabot

On Wed, Aug 31, 2016 at 7:46 PM, Bill McGonigle 
wrote:

> Hi, everybody,
>
> I know some of you have landed good gigs using recruiters.  I have a
> friend who will be relocating to my area who has a couple decades of
> UNIX and, more recently, Linux sysadmin experience, along with
> management skills.  I'm thinking a recruiter is going to be a better use
> of time than filling out job applications, but I know there are lots of
> numbskulls out there (they call me, frequently).  If anybody has
> somebody to recommend, please reply here or contact me directly.
>
> Thanks!
>
> -Bill
>
> --
> Bill McGonigle, Owner
> BFC Computing, LLC
> http://bfccomputing.com/
> Telephone: +1.855.SW.LIBRE
> Email, IM, VOIP: b...@bfccomputing.com
> VCard: http://bfccomputing.com/vcard/bill.vcf
> Social networks: bill_mcgonigle/bill.mcgonigle
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tech recruiters you like?

2016-08-31 Thread Bill McGonigle 
Hi, everybody,

I know some of you have landed good gigs using recruiters.  I have a
friend who will be relocating to my area who has a couple decades of
UNIX and, more recently, Linux sysadmin experience, along with
management skills.  I'm thinking a recruiter is going to be a better use
of time than filling out job applications, but I know there are lots of
numbskulls out there (they call me, frequently).  If anybody has
somebody to recommend, please reply here or contact me directly.

Thanks!

-Bill

-- 
Bill McGonigle, Owner
BFC Computing, LLC
http://bfccomputing.com/
Telephone: +1.855.SW.LIBRE
Email, IM, VOIP: b...@bfccomputing.com
VCard: http://bfccomputing.com/vcard/bill.vcf
Social networks: bill_mcgonigle/bill.mcgonigle
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