Re: [orca-list] RFP - Guadalinex a11y edition
From: Samuel Thibault samuel.thiba...@ens-lyon.org Luke Yelavich, le Fri 11 Jun 2010 08:45:22 +1000, a écrit : What is needed, is a way to signal all existing applications using GTK to retroactively load the atk/gail GTK modules. I guess it'd be far easier to convince gtk people to do that than keeping at-spi-registryd enabled by default. I really doubt it. Right now in order to load gail/atk-bridge modules, there isn't anything on GTK like load accessibility modules as in the deprecated libgnome-ui. In order to load the modules you use GTK_MODULES, an environment variable used to load any general purpose module during gtk_init. So, in order to be accepted a procedure like this, it should be a general method to load any general purpose module during runtime. You also have the problem of how signal gtk applications on runtime. You would require a IPC to do that, so the best candidate would be DBUS. This would mean add a new dependency to gtk+. === API (apinhe...@igalia.com) ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list
Re: [orca-list] RFP - Guadalinex a11y edition
Hello, Just some thoughts quickly put together: * I assume the gnome desktop will load automatically. When gnome starts it would be useful to have the start up sound enabled then a blind user knows the system is ready to start using. * Following from the above, people may say, why is the sound needed if orca starts automatically. My problem with that idea is that either all users have orca starting or a blind user has to navigate a boot menu to choose the blind boot process and normally these boot menus are inaccessible (you are relying on doing it right). * It might be nice to have a shortcut key to start orca, but this at the moment would be non-standard and should be documented. Admittedly the user could press alt+f2 and type orca but again that relies on doing multiple things correctly (eg. did the user start typing orca before the run dialog appears). * Braille displays, not sure, USB ones tend to be correctly detected by brltty but I think serial and bluetooth would need additional configuration before you are able to use it. * As for starting other tools, I guess that depends on the needs of those users. I don't see the need for all start up methods to apply to all ATs. As an example a keyboard shortcut to me sounds a bit pointless for starting an onscreen keyboard (I am logically working that through, a user who can't use the keyboard won't be able to press a keyboard shortcut, but you probably would be best to check). Like wise, an icon to start Braille seems a little pointless as how would a blind user visually find the icon (OK, may be a partially sighted Braille user, but if they knew of the shortcut would they just press the keys). I think that covers certain desktop integration issues, a quick glance at some of the specifics like evince, etc I don't notice anything I really want to comment on. Michael Whapples On 01/-10/-28163 08:59 PM, Mario wrote: Hello everybody, As you probably know, we're making an incredible effort to improve the accessibility in GNOME because it's the desktop used in the customized GNU/Linux distribution called Guadalinex which is used in Andalusia (Spain). In fact, there are three different flavours of Guadalinex: Guadalinex as such is a standard distribution aimed at home users. Guadalinex-edu is intended to be used in schools and by students. Finally there is the Guadalinex Guadalinfo version used in our telecentres spread out in Andalusia. Currently we are planning to create a special edition that would run from a USB key with all the a11y features enabled by default. Its main use is intended for users who want to make use of a computer where a11y software is not installed. Then the user could plug the USB, reboot the computer and can use the computer in a live session, of course ifspecial hardware is not needed. Don't forget that we're not only working towards blind people, so we'd need to extend Vinux and Tiflolinux capabilities. We ask you for help about how this a11y edition should be, look and feel. Specially, we are interested in: 1. How should the environment be at startup in order to be the most inclusive? 2. How should be enabled/disabled the different options? by keystrokes? by mouse movements? by voice orders? 3. How should be the user informed of the different options? audio? audio+text? 4. Anything else you think is important to include We'd love if all the development that will stem from this a11y edition could be encapsulated somehow so that it could be re-used to derive a11y editions from other GNU/Linux distributions (Ubuntu, Debian, ...). Any comment or suggestion you can make will be greatly appreciated and included in our formal RFP for bidders. The planned release date for this a11y edition is november 2010. In order to fulfil our schedule only comments/suggestions received by June 16th will taken into account for the bid. Just for your information, the current developments that we're funding or planning to fund and that will be included in this a11y edition, along with all other GNOME 3.0 a11y applications, are: 1. Improvements to ORCA [1] 2. Improvements to OCRFeeder [2] 3. Improvements to Evince [3] 4. Improvements to dots [4] 5. Improvements to Caribou [5] 6. Improvements to Eviacam [6] 7. Creation of a spanish equivalent of gnome-voice-control 8. Improvements to Webkitgtk+ [7] 9. Improvements to Cally and GNOME Shell [8] 10. Improvements to mousetweaks [9] Please, feel free to redistribute this email to other lists/persons who can give their opinion or to open a thread in the GNOME website to discuss this topic. Mario Cámara. Consorcio Fernando de los Ríos. Links [1] http://live.gnome.org/Orca [2] http://live.gnome.org/OCRFeeder [3] http://projects.gnome.org/evince/ [4] http://www.mail-archive.com/gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org/msg03816.html [5] http://live.gnome.org/Caribou [6] http://eviacam.sourceforge.net/eviacam.php [7] http://webkitgtk.org/ [8]
Re: [orca-list] RFP - Guadalinex a11y edition
I'll just take this example. Michael Whapples, le Thu 10 Jun 2010 15:24:51 +0100, a écrit : Like wise, an icon to start Braille seems a little pointless as how would a blind user visually find the icon (OK, may be a partially sighted Braille user, but if they knew of the shortcut would they just press the keys). But what about a sighted user (who knows not much about accessibility) who introduces another non-sighted user to Linux ? It'd still be good to have a simple clear icon to enable braille: oh, there's braille support, let's try. It's probably simpler to just have the same lists, and not try to exclude anything just because we can't imagine a scenario. We might just lack imagination, you know :) Samuel ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list
Re: [orca-list] RFP - Guadalinex a11y edition
On 06/10/2010 03:35 PM, Samuel Thibault wrote: I'll just take this example. Michael Whapples, le Thu 10 Jun 2010 15:24:51 +0100, a écrit : Like wise, an icon to start Braille seems a little pointless as how would a blind user visually find the icon (OK, may be a partially sighted Braille user, but if they knew of the shortcut would they just press the keys). But what about a sighted user (who knows not much about accessibility) who introduces another non-sighted user to Linux ? It'd still be good to have a simple clear icon to enable braille: oh, there's braille support, let's try. Oh, how do I enable it by myself in the future? OK, I am possibly arguing the point. I see logic in what you say and it was something I tried to mention is if a mode is removed then it must be explored well. I guess the other argument for not having the icon is to protect against the reason we have orca main window enabled by default, protect against curiosity (Braille may be is a poor example here, but you possibly want to protect against where user interaction is altered). Michael Whapples It's probably simpler to just have the same lists, and not try to exclude anything just because we can't imagine a scenario. We might just lack imagination, you know :) Samuel ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list
Re: [orca-list] RFP - Guadalinex a11y edition
Michael Whapples, le Thu 10 Jun 2010 15:42:58 +0100, a écrit : On 06/10/2010 03:35 PM, Samuel Thibault wrote: I'll just take this example. Michael Whapples, le Thu 10 Jun 2010 15:24:51 +0100, a écrit : Like wise, an icon to start Braille seems a little pointless as how would a blind user visually find the icon (OK, may be a partially sighted Braille user, but if they knew of the shortcut would they just press the keys). But what about a sighted user (who knows not much about accessibility) who introduces another non-sighted user to Linux ? It'd still be good to have a simple clear icon to enable braille: oh, there's braille support, let's try. Oh, how do I enable it by myself in the future? By waiting for the pop bubble that gives the shortcut. but you possibly want to protect against where user interaction is altered). Right. That's why gnome warns when you enable sticky keys etc. just to make sure you didn't enable them by accident. Samuel ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list
Re: [orca-list] RFP - Guadalinex a11y edition
On Fri, Jun 11, 2010 at 08:38:56AM EST, Samuel Thibault wrote: Bill Cox, le Thu 10 Jun 2010 13:39:06 -0400, a écrit : However, if at-spi-registryd isn't already running, then starting Orca wont work - Can't at-spi-registryd be run along Orca when the shortcut is pressed? No, because the gail/atk GTK modules need to have already been loaded for applications to be accessible. I.e if you log into a session, run at-spi-registryd and then run Orca, the only applications that will be accessible are those run after at-spi-registryd was launched. What is needed, is a way to signal all existing applications using GTK to retroactively load the atk/gail GTK modules. Luke ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list
Re: [orca-list] RFP - Guadalinex a11y edition
Luke Yelavich, le Fri 11 Jun 2010 08:45:22 +1000, a écrit : What is needed, is a way to signal all existing applications using GTK to retroactively load the atk/gail GTK modules. I guess it'd be far easier to convince gtk people to do that than keeping at-spi-registryd enabled by default. Samuel ___ gnome-accessibility-list mailing list gnome-accessibility-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-accessibility-list
