Re: Res: Adding context information for tooltips
On Ma, 2008-12-08 at 18:42 -0200, Leonardo Ferreira Fontenelle wrote: Hi, Joao; hi, all! I agree such metadata (eg this message comes from a checkbox label) would be very valuable. Technically I believe it should be part of the automatic comments, leaving msgctxt for disambiguation. I'm not confident we can expect from developers to systematically add such comments (even the Orca develpers don't do this), but maybe Glade or any other develpment tool could do it. Does anyone know if, and how, coukd we get this kind of information in the translator comments? It will be very cool if this extra information is given. It can even be useful as an extra entry in the #: comments. I agree that msgctxt should only be used for disambiguation context. Not notes from the programmers to help translators (although the context will obviously also help :-) What we might need to do is to adapt intltool to add the extra comment when creating the POT file from the .glade file. Friedel -- Recently on my blog: http://translate.org.za/blogs/friedel/en/content/blurred-vision-beeld ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Adding context information for tooltips
Hi there,
It is the first time I write to this list. and actually I've never before been
subscribed to this list, although I've been maintaning GIMP and its
associated modules to pt_BR for the last few years.
When I opened the po files for updating today, I noticed a large number of new
fuzzy strings, and soon found out they had only changed because the gettext
calls in GIMP got updated to the NC_ call which allows the inclusion of a
context comment for translators.
So, a previously uncommented string like _Add to Selection now shows up on
the translation GUI tool I use with a comment like channels-action.
That is actually great, and will surely ease the work for translators and make
translations less prone to context related errors.
However, on the very same call that sets the above string, a tooltip is also
set. In this case Add this channel to the current selection. However, this
one is also contexted as channels-action.
Now, a thing that is always difficult for me as a translator is exactly to
distinguish which strings are for labels, and which ones are for tooltips -
that makes a big difference at least for Portguese, but I suppose for a lot
of languages as well, due to the fact that Labels are usually tranaslated to
infinitive or imperative form, and tooltips are translated to the third
person form (as they describe an action). In English, both forms usually are
written the same way, so looking only at the string is hard to know if a
Rename file string refers to a label - in which case, I ṕd transalte it
to Renomear arquivo, or to a tooltip, in which case the pratice, and mos t
confortable form for users, is to have it as Renomear arquivo.
I know the example I picked with the GIMP tooltips above is a case in which it
is easy to distinguish the label and the tooltip, but, that is not always the
case.
I ḋ like to propose, since thses NC_ calls are being introduced now (at least
in GIMP - I don't know about other gnome-projects) to have teh context string
to distinguish between the Label and the Tooltip strings.
In the example above, instead of having channels-action describing
both _Add to Selection and Add this channel to the current selection,
I'd propose describing the lable _Add to selection
with channels-action-label and the tooltip with channels-action-tooltip.
In other words source code for that would change from:
{ channels-selection-add, GIMP_STOCK_SELECTION_ADD,
NC_(channels-action, _Add to Selection), NULL,
NC_(channels-action, Add this channel to the current selection),
GIMP_CHANNEL_OP_ADD, FALSE,
GIMP_HELP_CHANNEL_SELECTION_ADD },
to
{ channels-selection-add, GIMP_STOCK_SELECTION_ADD,
NC_(channels-action-label, _Add to Selection), NULL,
NC_(channels-action-tooltip, Add this channel to the current
selection),
GIMP_CHANNEL_OP_ADD, FALSE,
GIMP_HELP_CHANNEL_SELECTION_ADD },
What do you think of this as a general policy? At least for .pt_BR it would
make a lot of sense and help translators all over.
(If you like the idea, I would make available a script to help the updating of
these NC_ calls )
Regards,
js
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Re: Adding context information for tooltips
Hi,
On Mon, 2008-12-08 at 14:38 -0200, Joao S. O. Bueno wrote:
I ḋ like to propose, since thses NC_ calls are being introduced now (at least
in GIMP - I don't know about other gnome-projects) to have teh context string
to distinguish between the Label and the Tooltip strings.
In the example above, instead of having channels-action describing
both _Add to Selection and Add this channel to the current selection,
I'd propose describing the lable _Add to selection
with channels-action-label and the tooltip with channels-action-tooltip.
In other words source code for that would change from:
{ channels-selection-add, GIMP_STOCK_SELECTION_ADD,
NC_(channels-action, _Add to Selection), NULL,
NC_(channels-action, Add this channel to the current selection),
GIMP_CHANNEL_OP_ADD, FALSE,
GIMP_HELP_CHANNEL_SELECTION_ADD },
to
{ channels-selection-add, GIMP_STOCK_SELECTION_ADD,
NC_(channels-action-label, _Add to Selection), NULL,
NC_(channels-action-tooltip, Add this channel to the current
selection),
GIMP_CHANNEL_OP_ADD, FALSE,
GIMP_HELP_CHANNEL_SELECTION_ADD },
That would not be sufficient. You would also have to pass both contexts
to the gimp_action_group_add*() functions and change the code there to
take the two different contexts into account. I am not sure if that is
worth the effort.
Sven
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Re: Adding context information for tooltips
Le lundi 08 décembre 2008 à 21:29 +0100, Sven Neumann a écrit :
Hi,
On Mon, 2008-12-08 at 14:38 -0200, Joao S. O. Bueno wrote:
I ḋ like to propose, since thses NC_ calls are being introduced now (at
least
in GIMP - I don't know about other gnome-projects) to have teh context
string
to distinguish between the Label and the Tooltip strings.
In the example above, instead of having channels-action describing
both _Add to Selection and Add this channel to the current selection,
I'd propose describing the lable _Add to selection
with channels-action-label and the tooltip with channels-action-tooltip.
In other words source code for that would change from:
{ channels-selection-add, GIMP_STOCK_SELECTION_ADD,
NC_(channels-action, _Add to Selection), NULL,
NC_(channels-action, Add this channel to the current selection),
GIMP_CHANNEL_OP_ADD, FALSE,
GIMP_HELP_CHANNEL_SELECTION_ADD },
to
{ channels-selection-add, GIMP_STOCK_SELECTION_ADD,
NC_(channels-action-label, _Add to Selection), NULL,
NC_(channels-action-tooltip, Add this channel to the current
selection),
GIMP_CHANNEL_OP_ADD, FALSE,
GIMP_HELP_CHANNEL_SELECTION_ADD },
That would not be sufficient. You would also have to pass both contexts
to the gimp_action_group_add*() functions and change the code there to
take the two different contexts into account. I am not sure if that is
worth the effort.
I think we should not mingle translator comments and context specifier.
The former should be used for adding verbose comments to help
translating a string (e.g. This is a tooltip), and the latter should
be used to disambiguate two identical strings where their context differ
(it would be the case here if the tooltip and the label were identical
strings).
If we abuse the context specifier, we'll end up with duplicated strings
when there should not.
Claude
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Res: Adding context information for tooltips
Hi, Joao; hi, all!
I agree such metadata (eg this message comes from a checkbox label) would be
very valuable. Technically I believe it should be part of the automatic
comments, leaving msgctxt for disambiguation. I'm not confident we can expect
from developers to systematically add such comments (even the Orca develpers
don't do this), but maybe Glade or any other develpment tool could do it. Does
anyone know if, and how, coukd we get this kind of information in the
translator comments?
- Mensagem original -
Hi there,
It is the first time I write to this list. and actually I've never before been
subscribed to this list, although I've been maintaning GIMP and its
associated modules to pt_BR for the last few years.
When I opened the po files for updating today, I noticed a large number of new
fuzzy strings, and soon found out they had only changed because the gettext
calls in GIMP got updated to the NC_ call which allows the inclusion of a
context comment for translators.
So, a previously uncommented string like _Add to Selection now shows up on
the translation GUI tool I use with a comment like channels-action.
That is actually great, and will surely ease the work for translators and make
translations less prone to context related errors.
However, on the very same call that sets the above string, a tooltip is also
set. In this case Add this channel to the current selection. However, this
one is also contexted as channels-action.
Now, a thing that is always difficult for me as a translator is exactly to
distinguish which strings are for labels, and which ones are for tooltips -
that makes a big difference at least for Portguese, but I suppose for a lot
of languages as well, due to the fact that Labels are usually tranaslated to
infinitive or imperative form, and tooltips are translated to the third
person form (as they describe an action). In English, both forms usually are
written the same way, so looking only at the string is hard to know if a
Rename file string refers to a label - in which case, I ṕd transalte it
to Renomear arquivo, or to a tooltip, in which case the pratice, and mos t
confortable form for users, is to have it as Renomear arquivo.
I know the example I picked with the GIMP tooltips above is a case in which it
is easy to distinguish the label and the tooltip, but, that is not always the
case.
I ḋ like to propose, since thses NC_ calls are being introduced now (at least
in GIMP - I don't know about other gnome-projects) to have teh context string
to distinguish between the Label and the Tooltip strings.
In the example above, instead of having channels-action describing
both _Add to Selection and Add this channel to the current selection,
I'd propose describing the lable _Add to selection
with channels-action-label and the tooltip with channels-action-tooltip.
In other words source code for that would change from:
{ channels-selection-add, GIMP_STOCK_SELECTION_ADD,
NC_(channels-action, _Add to Selection), NULL,
NC_(channels-action, Add this channel to the current selection),
GIMP_CHANNEL_OP_ADD, FALSE,
GIMP_HELP_CHANNEL_SELECTION_ADD },
to
{ channels-selection-add, GIMP_STOCK_SELECTION_ADD,
NC_(channels-action-label, _Add to Selection), NULL,
NC_(channels-action-tooltip, Add this channel to the current
selection),
GIMP_CHANNEL_OP_ADD, FALSE,
GIMP_HELP_CHANNEL_SELECTION_ADD },
What do you think of this as a general policy? At least for .pt_BR it would
make a lot of sense and help translators all over.
(If you like the idea, I would make available a script to help the updating of
these NC_ calls )
Regards,
js
--
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Re: Adding context information for tooltips
On 12/8/08, Claude Paroz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [...] I ḋ like to propose, since thses NC_ calls are being introduced now (at least in GIMP - I don't know about other gnome-projects) to have teh context string to distinguish between the Label and the Tooltip strings. In the example above, instead of having channels-action describing both _Add to Selection and Add this channel to the current selection, I'd propose describing the lable _Add to selection with channels-action-label and the tooltip with channels-action-tooltip. [...] I think we should not mingle translator comments and context specifier. The former should be used for adding verbose comments to help translating a string (e.g. This is a tooltip), and the latter should be used to disambiguate two identical strings where their context differ (it would be the case here if the tooltip and the label were identical strings). If we abuse the context specifier, we'll end up with duplicated strings when there should not. Totally agree. Translator comments are (or should be) there to help translators know how a string is used. Message context is there to disambiguate strings that would otherwise be identical in English writing, but differ in contextual meaning. Examples: NC_(keyboard-key, _Add key) NC_(ssh-key, _Add key) /* TRANSLATORS: This is shown in the menu. */ N_(_Help) Christian ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: Res: Adding context information for tooltips
Gnome-i18n moderators, sorry for sending this e-mail from the wrong address before: Em Seg, 2008-12-08 às 18:42 -0200, Leonardo Ferreira Fontenelle escreveu: Hi, Joao; hi, all! I agree such metadata (eg this message comes from a checkbox label) would be very valuable. Technically I believe it should be part of the automatic comments, leaving msgctxt for disambiguation. I'm not confident we can expect from developers to systematically add such comments (even the Orca develpers don't do this), but maybe Glade or any other develpment tool could do it. Does anyone know if, and how, coukd we get this kind of information in the translator comments? ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: Adding context information for tooltips
On Monday 08 December 2008, Christian Rose wrote: Totally agree. Translator comments are (or should be) there to help translators know how a string is used. Message context is there to disambiguate strings that would otherwise be identical in English writing, but differ in contextual meaning. Examples: NC_(keyboard-key, _Add key) NC_(ssh-key, _Add key) /* TRANSLATORS: This is shown in the menu. */ N_(_Help) This clarifies a lot, thank you. Indeed - what I was asking for (distinguishing tooltip strings from label strings) would require translation comments to be interleaved inside function calls - I don'tṫ think that is feasible (having coding style in mind) - or is it? js -- Christian ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
