Re: Sun contributed l10n documentation
On Wo, 2006-11-08 at 17:32 -0200, Leonardo Fontenelle wrote: One of Pootle's current aim is to improve support for XLIFF. Pootle is an online translation tool; although offline (e.g. gtranslator) tools are and will remain very important, I believe an online tool should lower barriers to contribute and improve translation consistency. Pootle's documentation is located in http://translate.sf.net; the following pages cover XLIFF: . http://translate.sourceforge.net/wiki/wordforge/roadmap . http://translate.sourceforge.net/wiki/friedel/xliff Debian is working with Pootle to move Debian's translation process into Pootle. GNOME could do that too! IMHO it would be great to have a GNOME server à la Pootle, and an off-line translation tool (gtranslator?) comunicating with it à la bug-buddy. (Note: I don't do code, I think as a software _user_). Leonardo Fontenelle 2006/11/8, Francisco Javier F. Serrador [EMAIL PROTECTED]: The problem with XLIFF I think there are not enough free software tools to have a complete globalization stack. As mentioned in my separate e-mail about Pootle, we consider our move to XLIFF as a really important task. We are also busy building an offline translation editor that is made with Qt4 and Python and will therefore be cross platform. It will work with PO and XLIFF files and also be based on the translate toolkit, like Pootle. It will also sport many of the same features of the Pootle editor like checks (see my separate e-mail), and extra features such as translation memory. Another aspect that we have planned for the future, is indeed this kind of integration between client translation programs and the Pootle server, where the server facilitates the translation management and workflow. So yes, we definitely are working on the complete stack, as Javier Serrador calls it Dwayne Bailey and Javier Solá from our team recently met with Damien Donlon of Sun to explored ways of working together around Pootle, XLIFF and OpenOffice.org localisation. I think we will see more in this space in future. Friedel Pootle programmer ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: Sun contributed l10n documentation
On Wo, 2006-11-08 at 23:51 +0100, Francisco Javier F. Serrador wrote: Well, I think we are reusing some libs of translate-toolkit (which is part of pootle). I know about Debian and Pootle experiment, but I have some concerns about lowering barriers and not lowering quality at the same time. Lowering technological barriers is good, you get more people involved, but the QA group can be overhelmed by hundreds of low quality translations easily. Your concerns are legitimate and (perhaps because of other similar projects) many people have these concerns. Let me outline some features that I think will interest people that are concerned about quality: * A project admin (for a certain language and project) can setup access permissions for users on the Pootle server. The administrators can allow only certain users to translate, while limiting others to only providing suggestions, which have to be reviewed by someone with the appropriate privileges. This can also make it much easier for people to provide suggestions for small fixes, since one can simply search for a wrong string and provide a suggestion. Even the right to suggest can be limited to certain users. We plan to extend this in future to make role based privileges possible. * Pootle can make use of terminology files (http://pootle.wordforge.org currently makes use of files from the GNOME glossary project). It scans the original string for terms in the terminology project, and displays the official translation to the translator (with the definition/notes provided in the comments displayed in the tooltip). As an example, visit this URL: http://pootle.wordforge.org/sv/pootle/translate.html?searchtext=GNU It shows a message from the Swedish translation of Pootle, using the terminology defined in the GNOME glossary (which can be maintained as a separate translation project with separate access rights, etc.). * Pootle checks translations for many types of common errors, for example accelerators, variables, punctuation, etc. A full list of checks can be viewed here: http://translate.sourceforge.net/wiki/toolkit/pofilter_tests Not all the checks currently work equally well for all languages (punctuation tests, for example), but should provide a useful way for people to catch many common errors. We plan to implement language and script customised checks in future. To view these on Pootle, click on Show editing functions and then Show checks. (Hopefully our Pootle server won't be a good demonstration, because the translators already removed all of the valid errors ;-) * Another important feature that we are currently working on, and our XLIFF work is very much part of that, is to make it easier for teams to implement their desired workflow and to help them enforce it - however simple or complex they might want it to be. So although Pootle can act as an online translation tool, the translation management is very much a central part of it. We intend to work very well with all offline editors (PO and XLIFF based). Also see my separate mail about our offline editor. There are more issues and ideas that are discussed on our mailing lists and the wiki. We would really like people to get involved to ensure that we do things right. Our goals aren't just to make things easier, but also better. We do localisation ourselves (we don't just make tools) so we understand the importance of quality. If there are issues that are needed, please get involved and help us to go in the right direction. So although Pootle lowers the barrier of entry, we hope it also makes it easier for people to make high quality translations, and to aid inexperienced and experienced translators alike. Friedel Pootle programmer ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: Sun contributed l10n documentation
That sound very good notices. I will setup a pootle server as soon as possible. Maybe it is the thing we are looking for. El jue, 09-11-2006 a las 10:02 +0200, F Wolff escribió: On Wo, 2006-11-08 at 23:51 +0100, Francisco Javier F. Serrador wrote: Well, I think we are reusing some libs of translate-toolkit (which is part of pootle). I know about Debian and Pootle experiment, but I have some concerns about lowering barriers and not lowering quality at the same time. Lowering technological barriers is good, you get more people involved, but the QA group can be overhelmed by hundreds of low quality translations easily. Your concerns are legitimate and (perhaps because of other similar projects) many people have these concerns. Let me outline some features that I think will interest people that are concerned about quality: * A project admin (for a certain language and project) can setup access permissions for users on the Pootle server. The administrators can allow only certain users to translate, while limiting others to only providing suggestions, which have to be reviewed by someone with the appropriate privileges. This can also make it much easier for people to provide suggestions for small fixes, since one can simply search for a wrong string and provide a suggestion. Even the right to suggest can be limited to certain users. We plan to extend this in future to make role based privileges possible. * Pootle can make use of terminology files (http://pootle.wordforge.org currently makes use of files from the GNOME glossary project). It scans the original string for terms in the terminology project, and displays the official translation to the translator (with the definition/notes provided in the comments displayed in the tooltip). As an example, visit this URL: http://pootle.wordforge.org/sv/pootle/translate.html?searchtext=GNU It shows a message from the Swedish translation of Pootle, using the terminology defined in the GNOME glossary (which can be maintained as a separate translation project with separate access rights, etc.). * Pootle checks translations for many types of common errors, for example accelerators, variables, punctuation, etc. A full list of checks can be viewed here: http://translate.sourceforge.net/wiki/toolkit/pofilter_tests Not all the checks currently work equally well for all languages (punctuation tests, for example), but should provide a useful way for people to catch many common errors. We plan to implement language and script customised checks in future. To view these on Pootle, click on Show editing functions and then Show checks. (Hopefully our Pootle server won't be a good demonstration, because the translators already removed all of the valid errors ;-) * Another important feature that we are currently working on, and our XLIFF work is very much part of that, is to make it easier for teams to implement their desired workflow and to help them enforce it - however simple or complex they might want it to be. So although Pootle can act as an online translation tool, the translation management is very much a central part of it. We intend to work very well with all offline editors (PO and XLIFF based). Also see my separate mail about our offline editor. There are more issues and ideas that are discussed on our mailing lists and the wiki. We would really like people to get involved to ensure that we do things right. Our goals aren't just to make things easier, but also better. We do localisation ourselves (we don't just make tools) so we understand the importance of quality. If there are issues that are needed, please get involved and help us to go in the right direction. So although Pootle lowers the barrier of entry, we hope it also makes it easier for people to make high quality translations, and to aid inexperienced and experienced translators alike. Friedel Pootle programmer ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: Sun contributed l10n documentation
On 10/11/2006, at 12:50 AM, Francisco Javier F. Serrador wrote: That sound very good notices. I will setup a pootle server as soon as possible. Maybe it is the thing we are looking for. The Pootle developers are very keen to help projects integrate their tools. You'll be very welcome on translate-pootle [1], or #pootle on Freenode. :) from Clytie (vi-VN, Vietnamese free-software translation team / nhóm Việt hóa phần mềm tự do) http://groups-beta.google.com/group/vi-VN [1] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/translate-pootle Other info: http://pootle.wordforge.org/ http://translate.sourceforge.net/wiki/pootle PGP.sig Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: Sun contributed l10n documentation
Thanks for the email/blog responses. Is there a plan to move to Xliff? I saw this question in one of the blog comments. regards, Young Danilo Šegan wrote On 2006년 11월 07일 오후 04:25,: ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: Sun contributed l10n documentation
The problem with XLIFF I think there are not enough free software tools to have a complete globalization stack. We could use xliff for documentation now, but many of our teams should learn how to operate with java language tools, (that's the only free software reliable application dealing with XLIFF, I think). In my team there are at least two people who have given a try, (doing some OpenOffice localization) but found the application too heavy (using a PIII and 128 Mb is not enough). Also if we can use gettext to spit and eat xliff (which version? how to deal with plural forms?) directly, it would be significanly easier to port the rest of our infrastructure maybe using translate-tools to deal with xliff on websites, or implementing some xslt transformations to generate a propoer xhtml. Cheers! El mié, 08-11-2006 a las 08:27 -0800, Young Joo Pintaske escribió: Thanks for the email/blog responses. Is there a plan to move to Xliff? I saw this question in one of the blog comments. regards, Young Danilo Šegan wrote On 2006년 11월 07일 오후 04:25,: ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: Sun contributed l10n documentation
One of Pootle's current aim is to improve support for XLIFF. Pootle is an online translation tool; although offline (e.g. gtranslator) tools are and will remain very important, I believe an online tool should lower barriers to contribute and improve translation consistency. Pootle's documentation is located in http://translate.sf.net; the following pages cover XLIFF: . http://translate.sourceforge.net/wiki/wordforge/roadmap . http://translate.sourceforge.net/wiki/friedel/xliff Debian is working with Pootle to move Debian's translation process into Pootle. GNOME could do that too! IMHO it would be great to have a GNOME server à la Pootle, and an off-line translation tool (gtranslator?) comunicating with it à la bug-buddy. (Note: I don't do code, I think as a software _user_). Leonardo Fontenelle 2006/11/8, Francisco Javier F. Serrador [EMAIL PROTECTED]: The problem with XLIFF I think there are not enough free software tools to have a complete globalization stack. ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: Sun contributed l10n documentation
Well, I think we are reusing some libs of translate-toolkit (which is part of pootle). I know about Debian and Pootle experiment, but I have some concerns about lowering barriers and not lowering quality at the same time. Lowering technological barriers is good, you get more people involved, but the QA group can be overhelmed by hundreds of low quality translations easily. El mié, 08-11-2006 a las 17:32 -0200, Leonardo Fontenelle escribió: One of Pootle's current aim is to improve support for XLIFF. Pootle is an online translation tool; although offline (e.g. gtranslator) tools are and will remain very important, I believe an online tool should lower barriers to contribute and improve translation consistency. Pootle's documentation is located in http://translate.sf.net; the following pages cover XLIFF: . http://translate.sourceforge.net/wiki/wordforge/roadmap . http://translate.sourceforge.net/wiki/friedel/xliff Debian is working with Pootle to move Debian's translation process into Pootle. GNOME could do that too! IMHO it would be great to have a GNOME server à la Pootle, and an off-line translation tool (gtranslator?) comunicating with it à la bug-buddy. (Note: I don't do code, I think as a software _user_). Leonardo Fontenelle 2006/11/8, Francisco Javier F. Serrador [EMAIL PROTECTED]: The problem with XLIFF I think there are not enough free software tools to have a complete globalization stack. ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: Sun contributed l10n documentation
We use docbook-xml El lun, 06-11-2006 a las 13:27 -0800, Young Joo Pintaske escribió: Hi! A few days ago a colleague wrote a blog: http://blogs.sun.com/calum/date/20061101 There he refers to IRC conversation about l10n docs that Sun contributed a while ago and that they were useless because of the imcompatible file format. Please forgive my ignorance in the Gnome community process. Which file formats are acceptable to the community? I'd like to understand precisely what the issue was, and how we can resolve it going forward. Your comments are appreciated. :-) regards, Young ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
