(Approved) string change in Orca
Hi all. As discussed [1] on the gnome-18n list, we had been told [2] that one of the strings in Orca is too long and needed to be changed. I have received the requisite two responses. [3][4] Therefore, the following change has just been committed to master: -_(Enable notification message list mode. \ - Press Escape to exit or h for help)) +_(Present notification messages list)) Sorry for any inconvenience. --joanie [1] http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnome-i18n/2010-September/msg00027.html [2] https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=628589 [3] http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnome-i18n/2010-September/msg00060.html [4] http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnome-i18n/2010-September/msg00064.html ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
String change for orca
Hi All: At the request of our Hungarian translator, we've changed a string in Orca. The old string was this: #. Translators: this is in reference to a heading level #. in HTML (e.g., For h3, the level is 3). #. #: ../src/orca/scripts/toolkits/Gecko/speech_generator.py:90 #, python-format msgid level %d The new string is this: #. Translators: the %d is in reference to a heading #. level in HTML (e.g., For h3, the level is 3) #. and the %s is in reference to a previously #. translated rolename for the heading. If you #. change the order of the %s and %d in the string #. (as needed for Hungarian, for example), Orca will #. detect it and do the right thing. #. #: ../src/orca/scripts/toolkits/Gecko/speech_generator.py:93 #, python-format msgid %s level %d Thanks! Will ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Format specifier (re)ordering in Python (was: String change for orca)
Hi all,
The format specifiers should be in a different order problem is not new,
and not specific to Python. Let's look into this specific case once more:
2009-02-11 klockan 20:58 skrev Willie Walker:
At the request of our Hungarian translator, we've changed a string in
Orca. The old string was this:
#. Translators: this is in reference to a heading level
#. in HTML (e.g., For h3, the level is 3).
#.
#: ../src/orca/scripts/toolkits/Gecko/speech_generator.py:90
#, python-format
msgid level %d
The new string is this:
#. Translators: the %d is in reference to a heading
#. level in HTML (e.g., For h3, the level is 3)
#. and the %s is in reference to a previously
#. translated rolename for the heading. If you
#. change the order of the %s and %d in the string
#. (as needed for Hungarian, for example), Orca will
#. detect it and do the right thing.
#.
#: ../src/orca/scripts/toolkits/Gecko/speech_generator.py:93
#, python-format
msgid %s level %d
While this may work in this specific case, this is by no means a generally
acceptable solution to this kind of problem. What happens if both arguments
are strings? Or both are numbers? Or if you had 4 format specifiers? Well,
it would break horribly. So we need something more reliable :)
In C, sprintf() supports reordering format specifiers using %n$f, where n
is a number. Python does not support the %1$d syntax to its built-in
sprintf-like string formatting operator, %, but it does support named
parameter substitution when a mapping (e.g. a dictionary instance) is passed
to the % operator.
This may sound cryptic, so let's illustrate this with a few examples:
'the role is %(role)s and the level is %(level)d' % {'role': 'test',
'level': 3}
'the role is test and the level is 3'
If translators decide the order has to be changed, this will result in
something like this:
'the level is %(level)d and the role is %(role)s' % {'role': 'test',
'level': 3}
'the level is 3 and the role is test'
This approach works in all cases, even in the case that the two format
specifiers are the same (e.g. both are numbers).
There is one downside though: translators MUST NOT translate the keywords
(level and role in my case), since those are the keys used to lookup the
value in the mapping passed to the % operator. But then, translators can
just as well mess up format specifiers that are used in the traditional,
positional way, e.g. by translating '%.3f' to %.0f', which will result in
the fraction being removed upon display. So... a short translator notice
should be fine to avoid this problem.
Hope this helps others as well.
— Wouter
signature.asc
Description: Digital signature
___
gnome-i18n mailing list
gnome-i18n@gnome.org
http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: Format specifier (re)ordering in Python (was: String change for orca)
Hi Wouter:
From my experiences with the Q_ vs. C_ change, for example, I saw
translators being overly aggressive in their translations, translating
stuff the comments explicitly told them not to translate. Hence, I
definitely supported the change to C_ because it helped prevent this.
At the risk of translators being more likely to get %s level %d right
and %(role)s level %(level)d wrong, however, I think I'd prefer to
reserve the use of format specifiers where disambiguation is necessary.
But, if the gnome-i18n team makes a decree that thou shalt always use
format specifier reordering, perhaps a rule of thumb might be to use
cryptic parameter names, like:
_(%(p1)s blah %(p2)d) % {'p1' : 'foo', 'p2' : 3 }
Will
Wouter Bolsterlee wrote:
Hi all,
The format specifiers should be in a different order problem is not new,
and not specific to Python. Let's look into this specific case once more:
2009-02-11 klockan 20:58 skrev Willie Walker:
At the request of our Hungarian translator, we've changed a string in
Orca. The old string was this:
#. Translators: this is in reference to a heading level
#. in HTML (e.g., For h3, the level is 3).
#.
#: ../src/orca/scripts/toolkits/Gecko/speech_generator.py:90
#, python-format
msgid level %d
The new string is this:
#. Translators: the %d is in reference to a heading
#. level in HTML (e.g., For h3, the level is 3)
#. and the %s is in reference to a previously
#. translated rolename for the heading. If you
#. change the order of the %s and %d in the string
#. (as needed for Hungarian, for example), Orca will
#. detect it and do the right thing.
#.
#: ../src/orca/scripts/toolkits/Gecko/speech_generator.py:93
#, python-format
msgid %s level %d
While this may work in this specific case, this is by no means a generally
acceptable solution to this kind of problem. What happens if both arguments
are strings? Or both are numbers? Or if you had 4 format specifiers? Well,
it would break horribly. So we need something more reliable :)
In C, sprintf() supports reordering format specifiers using %n$f, where n
is a number. Python does not support the %1$d syntax to its built-in
sprintf-like string formatting operator, %, but it does support named
parameter substitution when a mapping (e.g. a dictionary instance) is passed
to the % operator.
This may sound cryptic, so let's illustrate this with a few examples:
'the role is %(role)s and the level is %(level)d' % {'role': 'test',
'level': 3}
'the role is test and the level is 3'
If translators decide the order has to be changed, this will result in
something like this:
'the level is %(level)d and the role is %(role)s' % {'role': 'test',
'level': 3}
'the level is 3 and the role is test'
This approach works in all cases, even in the case that the two format
specifiers are the same (e.g. both are numbers).
There is one downside though: translators MUST NOT translate the keywords
(level and role in my case), since those are the keys used to lookup the
value in the mapping passed to the % operator. But then, translators can
just as well mess up format specifiers that are used in the traditional,
positional way, e.g. by translating '%.3f' to %.0f', which will result in
the fraction being removed upon display. So... a short translator notice
should be fine to avoid this problem.
Hope this helps others as well.
— Wouter
___
gnome-i18n mailing list
gnome-i18n@gnome.org
http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: Format specifier (re)ordering in Python (was: String change for orca)
On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 09:37:20PM +0100, Wouter Bolsterlee wrote:
'the role is %(role)s and the level is %(level)d' % {'role': 'test',
'level': 3}
'the role is test and the level is 3'
If translators decide the order has to be changed, this will result in
something like this:
'the level is %(level)d and the role is %(role)s' % {'role': 'test',
'level': 3}
'the level is 3 and the role is test'
This approach works in all cases, even in the case that the two format
specifiers are the same (e.g. both are numbers).
There is one downside though: translators MUST NOT translate the keywords
Isn't this checked by the msgfmt command? If not, it should be, IMHO.
Bug in gettext?
(level and role in my case), since those are the keys used to lookup the
value in the mapping passed to the % operator. But then, translators can
just as well mess up format specifiers that are used in the traditional,
positional way, e.g. by translating '%.3f' to %.0f', which will result in
the fraction being removed upon display. So... a short translator notice
should be fine to avoid this problem.
--
+---+
| Marcel Telka e-mail: mar...@telka.sk |
|homepage: http://telka.sk/ |
|jabber: mar...@jabber.sk |
+---+
___
gnome-i18n mailing list
gnome-i18n@gnome.org
http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: [+gnome] Re: Format specifier (re)ordering in Python (was: String change for orca)
2009-02-11 klockan 21:58 skrev Willie Walker: But, if the gnome-i18n team makes a decree that thou shalt always use format specifier reordering, [...] Hi Willie, No worries, if your current approach to this specific case works, by all means leave it like it currently is. It's simpler after all. Sorry if I wasn't clear about this: my intention was not to correct you or urge you to revisit the changes you made. I just sent out this message for future reference. Keep up the good work, and take care not to insult gnome-i18n, ;) — Wouter signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: [+gnome] Re: Format specifier (re)ordering in Python (was: String change for orca)
2009-02-11 klockan 22:03 skrev Marcel Telka: On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 09:37:20PM +0100, Wouter Bolsterlee wrote: There is one downside though: translators MUST NOT translate the keywords Isn't this checked by the msgfmt command? If not, it should be, IMHO. Bug in gettext? If I recall correctly (it's been a while), this is not checked. However, things might have changed in the mean time. — Wouter signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: [+gnome] Re: Format specifier (re)ordering in Python (was: String change for orca)
On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 10:07:25PM +0100, Wouter Bolsterlee wrote: 2009-02-11 klockan 22:03 skrev Marcel Telka: On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 09:37:20PM +0100, Wouter Bolsterlee wrote: There is one downside though: translators MUST NOT translate the keywords Isn't this checked by the msgfmt command? If not, it should be, IMHO. Bug in gettext? If I recall correctly (it's been a while), this is not checked. However, things might have changed in the mean time. I tested it and it works! $ tail sk.po -n 3 #, python-format msgid %(aaa)s %(bbb)d msgstr %(bbb)d %(zzz)s $ LC_ALL=C msgfmt -c sk.po sk.po:20: a format specification for argument 'aaa' doesn't exist in 'msgstr' msgfmt: found 1 fatal error $ msgfmt -V msgfmt (GNU gettext-tools) 0.17 Copyright (C) 1995-1998, 2000-2007 Free Software Foundation, Inc. License GPLv3+: GNU GPL version 3 or later http://gnu.org/licenses/gpl.html This is free software: you are free to change and redistribute it. There is NO WARRANTY, to the extent permitted by law. Napísal Ulrich Drepper. $ -- +---+ | Marcel Telka e-mail: mar...@telka.sk | |homepage: http://telka.sk/ | |jabber: mar...@jabber.sk | +---+ ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
String change in Orca
Hi all. In the spirit of a more user-friendly Orca Preferences dialog, we've gotten rid of the string update interval:, replacing it with every. :-) ~~ #. Translators: Here 'every' labels a spin button through which a user can customize the frequency in seconds an announcement should be made. (The spin button is followed by the label 'seconds'.) Thus if a user chooses 5 in the spin button, the complete phrase would be 'every 5 seconds'. #: ../src/orca/orca-setup.glade.h:178 msgid every msgstr ~~ As always, the Orca team is very grateful for all the work y'all do! Take care. --Joanie ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
String change in Orca trunk
Hi, We have a minor string change in Orca. Instead of France French 1, it is France French Grade 1. It was probably obvious anyway. Thanks! Eitan. ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
String change for orca module.
Per the String Announcement Period request in the July 10th entry on the GNOME 2.15 release planning web page ( http://live.gnome.org/TwoPointFifteen ), this is to inform you that we've made a string change in the orca module. The string: Speaks the current flat review item or word. in .../src/orca/default.py has been changed to: Speaks or spells the current flat review item or word. Thanks. ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
