Re: l10n for clutter
On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 10:32 PM, Petr Kovar wrote: > Hi! > > Dimitris Glezos , Mon, 19 Jul 2010 19:03:56 +0300: > > (...) > >> Tao, I think you're 100% right that certain projects and translators >> would prefer having a more "global" system of translation teams. >> That's why projects such as GNOME, Fedora and others have such a >> strong L10n community. These were the communities we had in mind when >> adding the support for "Project Team Re-using/Outsourcing", giving the >> choice to developers to choose this model. Additionally, for some >> other upstream projects, having an upstream team might make more >> sense. > > This seems to be quite a recurring issue, for what it's worth, since we've > had this (or similar) discussion before. The support for "Project Team > Re-using/Outsourcing" is surely an improvement in the current Transifex > implementation, so thanks for that, but from a translation community > perspective, I'm afraid it's still quite missing a point. > > I think that community-empowered l10n infrastructure should be built upon a > paradigm that by default stress out the need for creating and/or > facilitating per-translation-team-based global translation community. I > believe that's the only effective way to do [community] translations in the > FLOSS world. Every time I tried thinking how this could scale to thousands of projects with different release cycles, while keeping some kind of quality control in place, I failed miserably. Ideas are welcome! =) -d -- Dimitris Glezos Transifex: The Multilingual Publishing Revolution http://www.transifex.net/ -- http://www.indifex.com/ ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: l10n for clutter
Hi! Dimitris Glezos , Mon, 19 Jul 2010 19:03:56 +0300: (...) > Tao, I think you're 100% right that certain projects and translators > would prefer having a more "global" system of translation teams. > That's why projects such as GNOME, Fedora and others have such a > strong L10n community. These were the communities we had in mind when > adding the support for "Project Team Re-using/Outsourcing", giving the > choice to developers to choose this model. Additionally, for some > other upstream projects, having an upstream team might make more > sense. This seems to be quite a recurring issue, for what it's worth, since we've had this (or similar) discussion before. The support for "Project Team Re-using/Outsourcing" is surely an improvement in the current Transifex implementation, so thanks for that, but from a translation community perspective, I'm afraid it's still quite missing a point. I think that community-empowered l10n infrastructure should be built upon a paradigm that by default stress out the need for creating and/or facilitating per-translation-team-based global translation community. I believe that's the only effective way to do [community] translations in the FLOSS world. My 50 hellers, Petr Kovar ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: l10n for clutter
Op maandag 19-07-2010 om 10:51 uur [tijdzone +0100], schreef Emmanuele Bassi: > no. apparently, transifex does not handle custom prefixes for > translatable strings - and Clutter uses the P_() prefix to distinguish > between strings and properties (like gtk+ and glib do) - in case we > decide to switch to a different gettext domain for properties, to avoid > overloading the default one. Perhaps P_() is not detected correctly? IIRC this is just pgettext() under the hood, right? — Wouter signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: l10n for clutter
On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 3:40 PM, Tao Wang wrote: > > On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 9:39 PM, Dimitris Glezos wrote: >> >> You can define per-project teams in two different ways. A project like >> Clutter can either: >> >> 1. Have its translation teams with team leaders, join requests and >> approvals. >> 2. Re-use the teams of another project on Transifex.net. This is >> done, for example, by MeeGo: all MeeGo sub-projects re-use the >> translation teams of the main MeeGo project: >> >> http://meego.transifex.net/projects/p/meego/teams/ >> > > It's a little bit off topic of the list, but frankly speaking, I really > don't like the way of Transifex.net, I mean, for each language, there is one > team of the language for every project. > > That is annoy for both translators and project maintainers. For translators > they have to request to join the translation for each project. And for the > project maintainers, they don't automatically get the translation teams for > all languages as l10n.gnome.org does, they have to assign/approval for each > language. > > As a translator on l10.gnome.org, it's quite easy for me to have a general > idea which project needs more translation, and it's free for me to pick one > and translate it. It's not to request to the maintainer for the translation. > I don't think the project maintainer should worry too much about the quality > in this way, since there are team coordinators who will review every > translation before they commit. And the team is not specific for any > project, that is, the team have successfully translate maybe hundreds of > projects. Based on the experience, it's trustful for any new project. At > least it's better than project maintainer manually pick someone he don't > know, and maybe he/she is just the first one request for translation for the > project. > > I love doing translation on l10n.gnome.org. The only problem is missing > connection to external repositories, which is better at Transifex.net. They > create accounts on sourceforge/github etc, so to allow the project hosting > on Transifex.net for translation, the only thing need to do is add the > specific user, someone like 'transifex', to the project as developer. That > is, it's possible to commit the translation directly to the repository. Tao, I think you're 100% right that certain projects and translators would prefer having a more "global" system of translation teams. That's why projects such as GNOME, Fedora and others have such a strong L10n community. These were the communities we had in mind when adding the support for "Project Team Re-using/Outsourcing", giving the choice to developers to choose this model. Additionally, for some other upstream projects, having an upstream team might make more sense. There are a whole multitude of ways to make l10n.gnome.org and Transifex.net talk together, should we want something like this. I'm positive that the project owners will be thrilled to know they have more people to contribute to their projects. -d -- Dimitris Glezos Transifex: The Multilingual Publishing Revolution http://www.transifex.net/ -- http://www.indifex.com/ ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: l10n for clutter
Hi! > I love doing translation on l10n.gnome.org. The only problem is missing > connection to external repositories, which is better at Transifex.net. > They > create accounts on sourceforge/github etc, so to allow the project hosting > on Transifex.net for translation, the only thing need to do is add the > specific user, someone like 'transifex', to the project as developer. That > is, it's possible to commit the translation directly to the repository. The point is: Can we make l10n.gnome.org also monitor external (git-)repositories? IMHO, the workflow could be like this: * l10n generates po files from the external repository (should be rather easy) * Translators uploads to l10n.gnome.org * Coordinator approves translation * Mail is automatically send to the responsible person for the sub-project to commit things (probably sign with GPG to authenticate properly). I think that would open us a number of projects hosted on external git repositories (clutter, gstreamer, freedesktop) and would unify the access. Anyway, it might be some workload for Claude and other l10n.gnome.org maintainers. Regards, Johannes ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: l10n for clutter
I don't think using the existing MeeGo team is a good choice, I've requested for membership at the same time I submit my translation to clutter (almost 3 days ago), and there isn't any response till now. There aren't any activity recorded of any members in that team, translations are just the initial copy-n-paste ones from GNOME, using teams like this will significantly make the maintenance harder. Another solution is making a copy of clutter on git.gnome.org and let gnome translation teams maintain translations there, then developers pull translations from git.gnome.org and merge them to clutter's development repository. If this is not allowed by policy, we may find another solution. 于 2010年07月19日 19:39, Dimitris Glezos 写道: > On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 1:06 PM, Kenneth Nielsen > wrote: >>> no. apparently, transifex does not handle custom prefixes for >>> translatable strings - and Clutter uses the P_() prefix to distinguish >>> between strings and properties (like gtk+ and glib do) - in case we >>> decide to switch to a different gettext domain for properties, to avoid >>> overloading the default one. > > Kenneth, could you maybe help in explaining this a bit more? FWIW, > Transifex uses the standard gettext and intltool libraries to extract > the strings. I also think Clutter is currently configured to use > "Plain POT" instead of "intltool". > > I guess this is probably a topic for another mailing list (most likely > transifex-devel), so feel free to open a thread there and a ticket to > trac.transifex.org. > >> That is not Transifex specific but applies to all localisation. If you >> care about quality you should restrict acces to registered translation >> teams. Not sure how that works in Transifex though, but there usually >> are a few Transifex experts lurking on this list, so maybe they can >> explain. > > You can define per-project teams in two different ways. A project like > Clutter can either: > > 1. Have its translation teams with team leaders, join requests and approvals. > 2. Re-use the teams of another project on Transifex.net. This is > done, for example, by MeeGo: all MeeGo sub-projects re-use the > translation teams of the main MeeGo project: > > http://meego.transifex.net/projects/p/meego/teams/ > > Hope this helps! > > -d > > -- Regards, Aron Xu signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: l10n for clutter
On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 9:39 PM, Dimitris Glezos wrote: > You can define per-project teams in two different ways. A project like > Clutter can either: > > 1. Have its translation teams with team leaders, join requests and > approvals. > 2. Re-use the teams of another project on Transifex.net. This is > done, for example, by MeeGo: all MeeGo sub-projects re-use the > translation teams of the main MeeGo project: > > http://meego.transifex.net/projects/p/meego/teams/ > > It's a little bit off topic of the list, but frankly speaking, I really don't like the way of Transifex.net, I mean, for each language, there is one team of the language for every project. That is annoy for both translators and project maintainers. For translators they have to request to join the translation for each project. And for the project maintainers, they don't automatically get the translation teams for all languages as l10n.gnome.org does, they have to assign/approval for each language. As a translator on l10.gnome.org, it's quite easy for me to have a general idea which project needs more translation, and it's free for me to pick one and translate it. It's not to request to the maintainer for the translation. I don't think the project maintainer should worry too much about the quality in this way, since there are team coordinators who will review every translation before they commit. And the team is not specific for any project, that is, the team have successfully translate maybe hundreds of projects. Based on the experience, it's trustful for any new project. At least it's better than project maintainer manually pick someone he don't know, and maybe he/she is just the first one request for translation for the project. I love doing translation on l10n.gnome.org. The only problem is missing connection to external repositories, which is better at Transifex.net. They create accounts on sourceforge/github etc, so to allow the project hosting on Transifex.net for translation, the only thing need to do is add the specific user, someone like 'transifex', to the project as developer. That is, it's possible to commit the translation directly to the repository. -- Regards Tao Wang ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: l10n for clutter
On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 1:06 PM, Kenneth Nielsen wrote: >> no. apparently, transifex does not handle custom prefixes for >> translatable strings - and Clutter uses the P_() prefix to distinguish >> between strings and properties (like gtk+ and glib do) - in case we >> decide to switch to a different gettext domain for properties, to avoid >> overloading the default one. Kenneth, could you maybe help in explaining this a bit more? FWIW, Transifex uses the standard gettext and intltool libraries to extract the strings. I also think Clutter is currently configured to use "Plain POT" instead of "intltool". I guess this is probably a topic for another mailing list (most likely transifex-devel), so feel free to open a thread there and a ticket to trac.transifex.org. > That is not Transifex specific but applies to all localisation. If you > care about quality you should restrict acces to registered translation > teams. Not sure how that works in Transifex though, but there usually > are a few Transifex experts lurking on this list, so maybe they can > explain. You can define per-project teams in two different ways. A project like Clutter can either: 1. Have its translation teams with team leaders, join requests and approvals. 2. Re-use the teams of another project on Transifex.net. This is done, for example, by MeeGo: all MeeGo sub-projects re-use the translation teams of the main MeeGo project: http://meego.transifex.net/projects/p/meego/teams/ Hope this helps! -d -- Dimitris Glezos Transifex: The Multilingual Publishing Revolution http://www.transifex.net/ -- http://www.indifex.com/ ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: l10n for clutter
2010/7/19 Emmanuele Bassi : > On Mon, 2010-07-19 at 11:03 +0200, Kenneth Nielsen wrote: >> 2010/7/15 Emmanuele Bassi : >> > hi everyone; >> > >> > Clutter[0] has some strings that might end up being displayed in a GUI >> > application - most notably, error strings - just like GLib and GTK+. >> > also, like GLib and GTK+, Clutter's classes properties can be used by UI >> > building tools, so they should be localized as well. >> > >> > since Clutter is not hosted on gnome.org, I set up a Clutter project >> > page on Transifex[1] to incorporate eventual translations. >> > >> > the amount of strings is in the same ballpark figure as GLib (~400). >> >> Currently I can only see 22 strings in the master branch in Transifex. >> Am I doing it wrong or are there in fact only 22 at the moment? > > no. apparently, transifex does not handle custom prefixes for > translatable strings - and Clutter uses the P_() prefix to distinguish > between strings and properties (like gtk+ and glib do) - in case we > decide to switch to a different gettext domain for properties, to avoid > overloading the default one. Hmm. I'm not sure I understand it completely. I hope it can be fixed though, maybe the Transifex people will add the feature. >> Being a GNOME guy myself, I would of course prefer it to be hosted in >> GNOME as well, mostly because there I know how to handle acces >> restrictions. > > unfortunately, we cannot move the gnome.org infrastructure: Clutter, > though very much part of GNOME, exists in different ecosystems, like > GStreamer. I understand. >> On that topic, is it on purpose that this translation is >> open to everyone? > > if open access is problematic, I can make it so that only registered > users and language teams are going to be accepted. also, since > translations arrive at my email address, I can filter them out. > > transifex is a new tool for me, and that's also why I asked for > feedback. That is not Transifex specific but applies to all localisation. If you care about quality you should restrict acces to registered translation teams. Not sure how that works in Transifex though, but there usually are a few Transifex experts lurking on this list, so maybe they can explain. Regards Kenneth ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: l10n for clutter
On Mon, 2010-07-19 at 11:03 +0200, Kenneth Nielsen wrote: > 2010/7/15 Emmanuele Bassi : > > hi everyone; > > > > Clutter[0] has some strings that might end up being displayed in a GUI > > application - most notably, error strings - just like GLib and GTK+. > > also, like GLib and GTK+, Clutter's classes properties can be used by UI > > building tools, so they should be localized as well. > > > > since Clutter is not hosted on gnome.org, I set up a Clutter project > > page on Transifex[1] to incorporate eventual translations. > > > > the amount of strings is in the same ballpark figure as GLib (~400). > > Currently I can only see 22 strings in the master branch in Transifex. > Am I doing it wrong or are there in fact only 22 at the moment? no. apparently, transifex does not handle custom prefixes for translatable strings - and Clutter uses the P_() prefix to distinguish between strings and properties (like gtk+ and glib do) - in case we decide to switch to a different gettext domain for properties, to avoid overloading the default one. > Being a GNOME guy myself, I would of course prefer it to be hosted in > GNOME as well, mostly because there I know how to handle acces > restrictions. unfortunately, we cannot move the gnome.org infrastructure: Clutter, though very much part of GNOME, exists in different ecosystems, like GStreamer. > On that topic, is it on purpose that this translation is > open to everyone? if open access is problematic, I can make it so that only registered users and language teams are going to be accepted. also, since translations arrive at my email address, I can filter them out. transifex is a new tool for me, and that's also why I asked for feedback. ciao, Emmanuele. -- W: http://www.emmanuelebassi.name B: http://blogs.gnome.org/ebassi ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: l10n for clutter
2010/7/15 Emmanuele Bassi : > hi everyone; > > Clutter[0] has some strings that might end up being displayed in a GUI > application - most notably, error strings - just like GLib and GTK+. > also, like GLib and GTK+, Clutter's classes properties can be used by UI > building tools, so they should be localized as well. > > since Clutter is not hosted on gnome.org, I set up a Clutter project > page on Transifex[1] to incorporate eventual translations. > > the amount of strings is in the same ballpark figure as GLib (~400). Currently I can only see 22 strings in the master branch in Transifex. Am I doing it wrong or are there in fact only 22 at the moment? Being a GNOME guy myself, I would of course prefer it to be hosted in GNOME as well, mostly because there I know how to handle acces restrictions. On that topic, is it on purpose that this translation is open to everyone? Regards Kenneth > any help from the GNOME l10n community would be greatly appreciated. > > ciao, > Emmanuele. > > [0] http://www.clutter-project.org > [1] http://www.transifex.net/projects/p/clutter/ > > -- > W: http://www.emmanuelebassi.name > B: http://blogs.gnome.org/ebassi > > ___ > gnome-i18n mailing list > gnome-i18n@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n > ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: l10n for clutter
Sorry, they're just listed there, but submission should go to the respective upstream projects. It doesn't make sense when the team committers doesn't have access to push translations to the repository. Regards, Aron Xu On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 2:44 PM, Tao Wang wrote: > Hi, > > Did a project translated on l10n.gnome.org have to be hosted on > git.gnome.org? > > I found many projects on l10n.gnome.org for translation, and they are not > hosted on git.gnome.org. See the below for example: > > WebKitGTK+ > Translation: http://l10n.gnome.org/module/webkit/ > Repository: http://svn.webkit.org/repository/webkit/trunk/WebKit/gtk/ > > NetworkManager > Translation: http://l10n.gnome.org/module/NetworkManager/ > Repository: http://cgit.freedesktop.org/NetworkManager/NetworkManager/ > > So, I think maybe clutter is still able to translate on l10n.gnome.org. > > On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 11:44 AM, Aron Xu wrote: >> >> Working on zh_CN translations, thanks. >> >> Regards, >> Aron Xu >> >> On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 6:15 AM, Emmanuele Bassi wrote: >> > On Thu, 2010-07-15 at 22:49 +0200, Luca Ferretti wrote: >> > >> >> > since Clutter is not hosted on gnome.org, I set up a Clutter project >> >> > page on Transifex[1] to incorporate eventual translations. >> >> >> >> Hmm... it seems Clutter "Master" component on transifex doesn't allow >> >> submission. This means nobody can add a translation :( >> > >> > yep, fixed that. I'm a transifex newbie - in case you didn't notice. :-) >> > >> > ciao, >> > Emmanuele. >> > >> > -- >> > W: http://www.emmanuelebassi.name >> > B: http://blogs.gnome.org/ebassi >> > >> > ___ >> > gnome-i18n mailing list >> > gnome-i18n@gnome.org >> > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n >> > >> ___ >> gnome-i18n mailing list >> gnome-i18n@gnome.org >> http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n > > > > -- > Regards > > Tao Wang > ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: l10n for clutter
Hi, Did a project translated on l10n.gnome.org have to be hosted on git.gnome.org? I found many projects on l10n.gnome.org for translation, and they are not hosted on git.gnome.org. See the below for example: WebKitGTK+ Translation: http://l10n.gnome.org/module/webkit/ Repository: http://svn.webkit.org/repository/webkit/trunk/WebKit/gtk/ NetworkManager Translation: http://l10n.gnome.org/module/NetworkManager/ Repository: http://cgit.freedesktop.org/NetworkManager/NetworkManager/ So, I think maybe clutter is still able to translate on l10n.gnome.org. On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 11:44 AM, Aron Xu wrote: > Working on zh_CN translations, thanks. > > Regards, > Aron Xu > > On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 6:15 AM, Emmanuele Bassi wrote: > > On Thu, 2010-07-15 at 22:49 +0200, Luca Ferretti wrote: > > > >> > since Clutter is not hosted on gnome.org, I set up a Clutter project > >> > page on Transifex[1] to incorporate eventual translations. > >> > >> Hmm... it seems Clutter "Master" component on transifex doesn't allow > >> submission. This means nobody can add a translation :( > > > > yep, fixed that. I'm a transifex newbie - in case you didn't notice. :-) > > > > ciao, > > Emmanuele. > > > > -- > > W: http://www.emmanuelebassi.name > > B: http://blogs.gnome.org/ebassi > > > > ___ > > gnome-i18n mailing list > > gnome-i18n@gnome.org > > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n > > > ___ > gnome-i18n mailing list > gnome-i18n@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n > -- Regards Tao Wang ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: l10n for clutter
Working on zh_CN translations, thanks. Regards, Aron Xu On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 6:15 AM, Emmanuele Bassi wrote: > On Thu, 2010-07-15 at 22:49 +0200, Luca Ferretti wrote: > >> > since Clutter is not hosted on gnome.org, I set up a Clutter project >> > page on Transifex[1] to incorporate eventual translations. >> >> Hmm... it seems Clutter "Master" component on transifex doesn't allow >> submission. This means nobody can add a translation :( > > yep, fixed that. I'm a transifex newbie - in case you didn't notice. :-) > > ciao, > Emmanuele. > > -- > W: http://www.emmanuelebassi.name > B: http://blogs.gnome.org/ebassi > > ___ > gnome-i18n mailing list > gnome-i18n@gnome.org > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n > ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: l10n for clutter
On Thu, 2010-07-15 at 22:49 +0200, Luca Ferretti wrote: > > since Clutter is not hosted on gnome.org, I set up a Clutter project > > page on Transifex[1] to incorporate eventual translations. > > Hmm... it seems Clutter "Master" component on transifex doesn't allow > submission. This means nobody can add a translation :( yep, fixed that. I'm a transifex newbie - in case you didn't notice. :-) ciao, Emmanuele. -- W: http://www.emmanuelebassi.name B: http://blogs.gnome.org/ebassi ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
Re: l10n for clutter
Il giorno gio, 15/07/2010 alle 17.34 +0100, Emmanuele Bassi ha scritto: > since Clutter is not hosted on gnome.org, I set up a Clutter project > page on Transifex[1] to incorporate eventual translations. Hmm... it seems Clutter "Master" component on transifex doesn't allow submission. This means nobody can add a translation :( ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
l10n for clutter
hi everyone; Clutter[0] has some strings that might end up being displayed in a GUI application - most notably, error strings - just like GLib and GTK+. also, like GLib and GTK+, Clutter's classes properties can be used by UI building tools, so they should be localized as well. since Clutter is not hosted on gnome.org, I set up a Clutter project page on Transifex[1] to incorporate eventual translations. the amount of strings is in the same ballpark figure as GLib (~400). any help from the GNOME l10n community would be greatly appreciated. ciao, Emmanuele. [0] http://www.clutter-project.org [1] http://www.transifex.net/projects/p/clutter/ -- W: http://www.emmanuelebassi.name B: http://blogs.gnome.org/ebassi ___ gnome-i18n mailing list gnome-i18n@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-i18n
