Re: [GNU-linux-libre] LibertyBSD - OpenBSD minus the blobs
There are currently no FSF-approved BSD distributions, and not many designed for servers. Do the GNU/Linux-libre distributions need separate design to be useful on servers? LibertyBSD is a fork of OpenBSD that contains only free software. That is, the firmware blobs - both distributed with the system, and downloaded at first boot - have been removed. How do you check if there are any blobs left or if new upstream releases add them? Do you change or remove userspace packages? (GNU/Linux distros usually need to adapt man pages and programs recommending nonfree software, and remove several nonfree programs.) signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [GNU-linux-libre] LibertyBSD - OpenBSD minus the blobs
On 30/12/14 07:13, Luke Shumaker wrote: At Mon, 29 Dec 2014 15:43:42 +1100, Riley Baird wrote: On 29/12/14 15:31, Jason Self wrote: Riley Baird orthogo...@librewrt.org wrote .. So, it is with great excitement that I announce today LibertyBSD. I wonder if there is an advantage to work with the people of NuBSD [0] instead of starting another free BSD? I hadn't heard of them. It seems that they're system is based on FreeBSD, though. In any case, since I've already finished making LibertyBSD, I don't see any point in not releasing it. If I'm not mistaken, NuBSD is eventually going to have a variant based of of each of the popular BSDs. NuBSD Fire is FreeBSD. There are plans for eventual Air, Aqua, and Earth variants based on the other popular BSDs (I'm not sure which is which); though Fire is being prioritized as a first release. Ah, I didn't know that; I thought they were only working on FreeBSD. I'll contact them to let them know about LibertyBSD.
Re: [GNU-linux-libre] LibertyBSD - OpenBSD minus the blobs
I wonder if there is an advantage to work with the people of NuBSD [0] instead of starting another free BSD? I hadn't heard of them. It seems that they're system is based on FreeBSD, though. In any case, since I've already finished making LibertyBSD, I don't see any point in not releasing it. All NuBSD work that I know about is the wiki and an incomplete deblobbing script. (All that I currently do for NuBSD is wiki hosting.) In my experience, every person interested in FSDG-freeing a BSD distro prefers a different BSD distro, so due to limited time of a single contributor no such project has enough work done to be posted on this list. Yours might change this. I already strongly recommend against using the ports tree. However, the BSDs being what they are, a ports tree fetched two weeks from now may not work on a release downloaded today. It's the same if you mix repos for different versions of a GNU/Linux distro. For this reason, I would like to provide the tarball of a working ports tree, such that people can work on deblobbing it if they wish to do so. Otherwise, there is no hope of ever having a free ports tree. Deblobbing can be done incrementally, with scripts that adapt a current revision of the upstream ports tree into one compliant with the FSDG. This might be similar to how Parabola or Trisquel removes some packages and modifies the rest (with nice scripts editing source packages in Trisquel). signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [GNU-linux-libre] LibertyBSD - OpenBSD minus the blobs
On 30/12/14 07:17, Michał Masłowski wrote: There are currently no FSF-approved BSD distributions, and not many designed for servers. Do the GNU/Linux-libre distributions need separate design to be useful on servers? Yes. Most GNU/Linux-libre distributions have a GUI and various other unnecessary, potentially vulnerable programs. These are useful for desktop users, but not for server users. LibertyBSD is a fork of OpenBSD that contains only free software. That is, the firmware blobs - both distributed with the system, and downloaded at first boot - have been removed. How do you check if there are any blobs left or if new upstream releases add them? OpenBSD has a strict policy against non-free software, making an exception for microcode, which they don't see as software. They would not accept any other blobs, and if, in some strange accident, they did, then they would want to remove it very quickly once informed. Do you change or remove userspace packages? (GNU/Linux distros usually need to adapt man pages and programs recommending nonfree software, and remove several nonfree programs.) I don't think it is very practical to change the manpages to remove all reference to non-free software - I'd have to read every single manpage, and even then I'd probably miss some. I'm happy to accept patches for this once LibertyBSD is released, however.
Re: [GNU-linux-libre] LibertyBSD - OpenBSD minus the blobs
On 30/12/14 07:29, Michał Masłowski wrote: I wonder if there is an advantage to work with the people of NuBSD [0] instead of starting another free BSD? I hadn't heard of them. It seems that they're system is based on FreeBSD, though. In any case, since I've already finished making LibertyBSD, I don't see any point in not releasing it. All NuBSD work that I know about is the wiki and an incomplete deblobbing script. (All that I currently do for NuBSD is wiki hosting.) In my experience, every person interested in FSDG-freeing a BSD distro prefers a different BSD distro, so due to limited time of a single contributor no such project has enough work done to be posted on this list. Yours might change this. That's exactly what I hope. But I need the help of the free software community for this to become a reality. You can: 1. Make a donation to 1BFQEqzhxTbvfjZ3f9eoTbeEBgJdkVcj4m 2. Buy a pre-release copy. I've already had one order, so contact me for more details. 3. Help my submission to Slashdot be accepted: http://slashdot.org/submission/4088331/openbsd-forked-to-remove-non-free-firmware I already strongly recommend against using the ports tree. However, the BSDs being what they are, a ports tree fetched two weeks from now may not work on a release downloaded today. It's the same if you mix repos for different versions of a GNU/Linux distro. From OpenBSD's FAQ, it seems to be a lot worse: http://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq15.html#NoFun For this reason, I would like to provide the tarball of a working ports tree, such that people can work on deblobbing it if they wish to do so. Otherwise, there is no hope of ever having a free ports tree. Deblobbing can be done incrementally, with scripts that adapt a current revision of the upstream ports tree into one compliant with the FSDG. This might be similar to how Parabola or Trisquel removes some packages and modifies the rest (with nice scripts editing source packages in Trisquel). That's a good idea. But let's see if we can at least get the base released first. :)
Re: [GNU-linux-libre] LibertyBSD - OpenBSD minus the blobs
Michał Masłowski asked: Do the GNU/Linux-libre distributions need separate design to be useful on servers? Riley Baird replied: Yes. Most GNU/Linux-libre distributions have a GUI and various other unnecessary, potentially vulnerable programs. These are useful for desktop users, but not for server users. That's just what packages are installed by default, not an argument to why the underlying system itself needs to be designed differently. Seems more a perception thing. If your point is over what packages are installed by default then Trisquel, gNewSense, and Parabola all have minimal ISO images which are enough to boot your computer, bring up networking, and then install exactly (and only) what you say to, thereby eliminating all of that stuff you mentioned. (And really that copy of Postfix I install on my server is the same as that which I'd get from most any other system.)
Re: [GNU-linux-libre] LibertyBSD - OpenBSD minus the blobs
On 30/12/14 11:19, Jason Self wrote: Michał Masłowski asked: Do the GNU/Linux-libre distributions need separate design to be useful on servers? Riley Baird replied: Yes. Most GNU/Linux-libre distributions have a GUI and various other unnecessary, potentially vulnerable programs. These are useful for desktop users, but not for server users. That's just what packages are installed by default, not an argument to why the underlying system itself needs to be designed differently. Seems more a perception thing. If your point is over what packages are installed by default then Trisquel, gNewSense, and Parabola all have minimal ISO images which are enough to boot your computer, bring up networking, and then install exactly (and only) what you say to, thereby eliminating all of that stuff you mentioned. (And really that copy of Postfix I install on my server is the same as that which I'd get from most any other system.) To some degree, what you're saying is true, but LibertyBSD is generally easier to setup as a server. Of course, there's nothing stopping you from using it as a desktop, it just takes more effort.
[GNU-linux-libre] LibertyBSD - OpenBSD minus the blobs
Greetings, fellow free software enthusiasts! There are currently no FSF-approved BSD distributions, and not many designed for servers. So, it is with great excitement that I announce today LibertyBSD. LibertyBSD is a fork of OpenBSD that contains only free software. That is, the firmware blobs - both distributed with the system, and downloaded at first boot - have been removed. However, although the system has already been completed, before it is released, 3 BTC will need to be raised. 10% of the money raised will be donated to the OpenBSD Foundation. For more information, see http://www.libertybsd.net Contributions can be made to 1BFQEqzhxTbvfjZ3f9eoTbeEBgJdkVcj4m
Re: [GNU-linux-libre] LibertyBSD - OpenBSD minus the blobs
On 29/12/14 15:31, Jason Self wrote: Riley Baird orthogo...@librewrt.org wrote .. So, it is with great excitement that I announce today LibertyBSD. I wonder if there is an advantage to work with the people of NuBSD [0] instead of starting another free BSD? I hadn't heard of them. It seems that they're system is based on FreeBSD, though. In any case, since I've already finished making LibertyBSD, I don't see any point in not releasing it. LibertyBSD is a fork of OpenBSD that contains only free software. I've not been able to examine LibrertyBSD, mostly due to the last item I mention, but from the website I do have a concern. The FAQ mentions: Does the ports tree work with LibertyBSD? Most likely yes, but it has not been tested. However, usage is discouraged for the following reasons: * Programs in the ports tree have not undergone a security audit by OpenBSD's developers. By using the ports tree, you may very well be undermining the security of your own system. * The ports tree contains Makefiles for some non-free programs, and these are not labelled as such. If this concerns you, you'll need to do some research on the program that you're building first. Do you have plans to make a ports tree with only free software? Depending on how this fundraiser goes, I might be interested in starting a fundraiser for a free ports tree later on. (I don't have the time or the skills to do a security audit of the ports, though, so that problem would still remain.) Until/unless an FSDG ports tree exists, I suspect that this means that LibertyBSD would need to not have a ports tree at all in order be compliant with the GNU FSDG. (The system should have no repositories for nonfree software and no specific recipes for installation of particular nonfree programs.) I already strongly recommend against using the ports tree. However, the BSDs being what they are, a ports tree fetched two weeks from now may not work on a release downloaded today. For this reason, I would like to provide the tarball of a working ports tree, such that people can work on deblobbing it if they wish to do so. Otherwise, there is no hope of ever having a free ports tree. It seems that this is okay with the FSDG, For a borderline case, a clear and serious exhortation not to use the nonfree program would move it to the acceptable side of the line.
