$B!y(B10000$B1_J,L5NA!y(B

[info]

$B"#"#"#!V(B1$B1_!WJ,L5NA%]%$%s%HB#Dh%-%c%s%Z!<%se$2$^$9!*(B

$B"!(B1$B1_L5NA%]%$%s%H$H?7$7$$=P2q$$(BGET$B!*"*"*"*(B 
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$B!zL5NA$GAjEvM7$Y$^$9$N$G@'Hs$*;n$72<$5$$$M"v(B
$B!z;HMQ$7$F$_$F!V$3$l$O!*!W$H;W$C$FD:$$$?J}$N$_!VM-NA!W$X$*?J$_2<$5$$!#(B



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Re: People paid to create arguments

[Raging Lunatic]

Chris Wilkinson wrote:
for that NG prohibits any commercial activity, yet seeing these
MS employees openly defending their OS on the group I believe is
a breach of the group charter. They are obviously paid to do that,
and I think there are plenty of other posters who are there for
little other reason to defend MS to the (eventual) death, for
their own gain...
They're probably bored and have nothing better to do...
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Re: Richard Stallman

[Keith Thompson]

"Boer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Is Richard Stallman a Jew? No offense to Stallman or Jew's.

I don't know.  Why do you want to know?

-- 
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) [EMAIL PROTECTED]  
San Diego Supercomputer Center <*>  
We must do something.  This is something.  Therefore, we must do this.
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Re: People paid to create arguments

[Chris Wilkinson]

Hi there,
Yibbels wrote:
Hi all,
In nz.comp newsgroup there are several Microsoft employees that
post quite regularly (they openly show they are working for MS).
That includes one key Manager, and a few techs. Their posting is
none too friendly towards Linux, although they tend not to use
the childish insults that trollers tend to use. Nonetheless it
is obvious to many they are there to defend Windows from any
defamatory statements, be they baseless or factual. The charter
for that NG prohibits any commercial activity, yet seeing these
MS employees openly defending their OS on the group I believe is
a breach of the group charter. They are obviously paid to do that,
and I think there are plenty of other posters who are there for
little other reason to defend MS to the (eventual) death, for
their own gain...
--
Kind regards,
Chris Wilkinson, Brisbane, Australia.
Anyone wishing to email me directly can remove the obvious
spamblocker, and replace it with  t p g  c o m  a u
Software patents are killing YOUR freedom, STOP THEM NOW!
http://swpat.ffii.org/http://nosoftwarepatents.com/
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Re: People paid to create arguments

[Tatu Portin]

Yibbels wrote:
Hi all,
1. Observation
There are those who wonder why so vociferous if not obstreperous
attacks on free software and particularly Linux occur, and who
postulate that perhaps the people doing the attacking are paid
to do so.
which is novel for a different reason: it is the marshalling of
cheap foreign labor in the pursuit of not so much marketing, by
"psy-ops"
(psychological operations) since ultimately the attack-dog work
is intended to
  - intimidate
  - demoralize
  - emasculate
  - subjugate
the opposite camp.
8. Definition
IDES != FUD
IDES = intimidate demoralize emasculate subjugate
-Yib

If feeling intimidated, then, you could read this article.
Made me feel human again.
http://www.larouchepub.com/lar/2004/webcasts/3145_nov9_webcast.html
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Re: People paid to write crap

[Yibbels]

Pot kettle black, little dick.

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Re: People paid to write crap

[Alexander Cline]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
He does have a point. Anyone ever seen that episode of Frontline where 
they talked about Astroturfing? Very interesting stuff. There were 
people in congressional offices showing off piles of letters that were 
all nearly identical because they had been sent by "grassroots 
activists", or rather paid individuals passing themselves off as such. 
It's like political junkmail/spam! Yay!

After Armstrong Williams, I can only imagine that paid opinion is a 
very lucrative job...


http://alex.theclines.net/
Pubkey at http://alex.theclines.net/pubkeys.htm
On Apr 15, 2005, at 12:03, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
troll
*plonk*
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Re: People paid to write crap

[dick_machete]

troll

*plonk*

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Re: People paid to create arguments

[7]

Yibbels wrote:

> Hi all,

> Whereas the term FUD (fear uncertainty doubt) describes a novel
> but non-attacking marketing technique, what I am describing is
> something
> which is novel for a different reason: it is the marshalling of
> cheap foreign labor in the pursuit of not so much marketing, by


You have got to be kidding!
Only in amerikkkaaa is astroturfing is so bad.
The likes of edelman and dci working for microshaft
are all headquarted over there. The industry must
generate some 100 million letters, is at least 1bn
dollars in size at last estimate,
and must employ at least 100,000 staff.
In amerikkkaaa its meaningless to discuss a blog
with discussing astroturds.
Some of the letters cost $500 per letter.
It is big business!

Most other countries have political machinery
for politicking, but not the new wave of internet led 
sophisticated astroturfing seen in amerikkkaaa.
No fool would pay $500 per letter pretending
its from a general member of public. 

In any case, this kind of work isn't offshored.
There needs to be close communication between astroturds
and the companies that hire them. Give it to foreigners,
and it all falls apart, because of language barriers and also
no one likes amerikkkaaans any way, so they are just
gonna snitch on them some time or the other.

I say, we must legalize astroturfing.
Its undermining democracy when you have 10,000
letters in front of you, and you can't decide
in good faith if all of it was written by
one person, or 10, or 20, or 10,000.
Politicians in amerikkkaaa are too dumb to check.
So we must legalize astroturfing.

Here is my campaign manifesto...


Legalise astroturfing now!
--

The rights of astro turfers are in danger because
they are continually bashed for fun.
This is not fair on the bashees and the bashers
because of nym shifting and other issues that are
making life difficult for point scoring to stick.
Astro turfing now is a big industry and part of
the landscape of the services industry with giants
like dci, bivings, atl, cagw, adti, edelman,
csws, olc, akaw, arcfcp, acsh, cse, nesarc,
bonner, burson, act, nsa, idc, giga, meta, apco,
hillard, ketchum, ogc, etc
employing hundreds of thousands of people.
Obviously employees must now be given extra rights
as authors of 100 million+ letters annually, with each
letter costing $500 or more per letter. The employees
see very little of that money, losing 98% of the income to
the proprietors for the unregulated businesses
they operate. Being part a legalized astro turfing
organisation can bring job security and improve
income which is the aim of this legislation quest.


The Engines of Democracy Astro Turfing Rights Bill
--
1. All astro turfers must register for employment and obtain employee ID.

2. Clients are nice people too, and deserve every contract to be
   to be displayed openly with a contract ID so that everyone may know
   astroturfing company / client relationship and how much money
   has parted hands. Particularly important for politicos who
   are worried of excessive spending by the other side.

3. All astro turfers must show their employer registration ID, and client
   contract ID with any works of art and fiction they produce.
   In return legal immunity is provided to the astro turfer,
   the client and astroturfing from any prosecution for opionins
   expressed, except for anything that falls under existing libel laws.

4. Failure to do so can net unlimited liability for its employers
   and the clients who use the services.

5. This allows all astro turfed hooting tooting votes and opinions
   to be counted as just one vote and make democracy work fairly.

6. Bring astro turfing in line with current advertising rules
   i.e. a. they must be factual
b. they have been refereed
c. they have paid tax

7. Any mis information reported by astro turfers is subject
   to laws of libel, and through use of employee ID, can
   render the employee, the employer and the client liable.

8. All astro turfers have the right to snitch on their employers
   and clients with legal protection from the law if they
   choose to do so. That is employers and clients must not compel
   employees into signing any agreements that prohibit their
   god given rights of freedom of speech.

9. Public companies must register transactions with astro turfing
   companies and make available to investors and the SEC the full
   nature of the contract between them and their astro turfing
   companies so that investors can be confident of the investments
   they are making, and that it is not based on faked misinformation
   inadvertently supplied by astro turfers.

Client and Employer Misconduct
--

10. Should the employer or the Client is found to be in misconduct
   when hiring astro turfers to put out incorrect information,
   the client and the employer gurantees to indemnify the employee
   from an

Re: People paid to create arguments

[Alexander Cline]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
It's a funny thought... I would have to say that Terekhov is just a 
jerk, though.


http://alex.theclines.net/
Pubkey at http://alex.theclines.net/pubkeys.htm
On Apr 15, 2005, at 10:02, Yibbels wrote:
Hi all,
1. Observation
There are those who wonder why so vociferous if not obstreperous
attacks on free software and particularly Linux occur, and who
postulate that perhaps the people doing the attacking are paid
to do so.
2. Observation
In these modern times, with capitalist globalization in full swing
and many jobs being "shipped" from rich countries to poorer countries
to yet-poorer countries, there is no reason to believe that any
job that can be shipped overseas won't be, if the new site offers
an adequate labor pool, or if any negative consequences of offshoring
will not appear in the short term. Capitalists are always trying to
reduce labor costs and doing so benefits individual executives who
promote the idea.
3. "Assertion A"
If a company is paying X number of dollars to market their products,
and to denegrate competing products, it is only logical that their
attention would be drawn to Usenet because Usenet reaches a segment
of the public and there is no cost involved in transmitting a message
to recipients.
4. Inference
If Assertion A holds, and if capitalists wish to minimize labor costs,
then a thoughtful executive will want to act upon Usenet by hiring
Third World workers to perform marketing or other work on Usenet,
so long as they can type sufficient English and represent themselves
as knowing enough so as to make a difference. Which is to say,
of course people (probably Indians, Eastern-Europeans etc) are being
paid
to post to Usenet.
5. Observation
In many an American political Usenet group, one can observe people who
perform attacks on "liberal" (American leftwing) ideas and people,
which often are nonsensical, incoherent, incorrect English, without
termination, often without apparent point except "attack for the sake
of attack".
6. Inference
Given the screwdness of the current US rightwing regime and their
willingness to sink to any new low, and if Assertion A holds (political
ideas being the 'product'), then it is reasonable to say that rightwing
American political leaders will want to offshore any attack-dog work on
Usenet to the cheapest English-capable providers, which would be in any
Third World country where there are English-capable workers.
7. "Assertion B"
Whereas the term FUD (fear uncertainty doubt) describes a novel
but non-attacking marketing technique, what I am describing is
something
which is novel for a different reason: it is the marshalling of
cheap foreign labor in the pursuit of not so much marketing, by
"psy-ops"
(psychological operations) since ultimately the attack-dog work
is intended to
  - intimidate
  - demoralize
  - emasculate
  - subjugate
the opposite camp.
8. Definition
IDES != FUD
IDES = intimidate demoralize emasculate subjugate
-Yib
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People paid to create arguments

[Yibbels]

Hi all,

1. Observation

There are those who wonder why so vociferous if not obstreperous
attacks on free software and particularly Linux occur, and who
postulate that perhaps the people doing the attacking are paid
to do so.

2. Observation

In these modern times, with capitalist globalization in full swing
and many jobs being "shipped" from rich countries to poorer countries
to yet-poorer countries, there is no reason to believe that any
job that can be shipped overseas won't be, if the new site offers
an adequate labor pool, or if any negative consequences of offshoring
will not appear in the short term. Capitalists are always trying to
reduce labor costs and doing so benefits individual executives who
promote the idea.

3. "Assertion A"

If a company is paying X number of dollars to market their products,
and to denegrate competing products, it is only logical that their
attention would be drawn to Usenet because Usenet reaches a segment
of the public and there is no cost involved in transmitting a message
to recipients.

4. Inference

If Assertion A holds, and if capitalists wish to minimize labor costs,
then a thoughtful executive will want to act upon Usenet by hiring
Third World workers to perform marketing or other work on Usenet,
so long as they can type sufficient English and represent themselves
as knowing enough so as to make a difference. Which is to say,
of course people (probably Indians, Eastern-Europeans etc) are being
paid
to post to Usenet.

5. Observation

In many an American political Usenet group, one can observe people who
perform attacks on "liberal" (American leftwing) ideas and people,
which often are nonsensical, incoherent, incorrect English, without
termination, often without apparent point except "attack for the sake
of attack".

6. Inference

Given the screwdness of the current US rightwing regime and their
willingness to sink to any new low, and if Assertion A holds (political

ideas being the 'product'), then it is reasonable to say that rightwing
American political leaders will want to offshore any attack-dog work on
Usenet to the cheapest English-capable providers, which would be in any
Third World country where there are English-capable workers.

7. "Assertion B"

Whereas the term FUD (fear uncertainty doubt) describes a novel
but non-attacking marketing technique, what I am describing is
something
which is novel for a different reason: it is the marshalling of
cheap foreign labor in the pursuit of not so much marketing, by
"psy-ops"
(psychological operations) since ultimately the attack-dog work
is intended to
  - intimidate
  - demoralize
  - emasculate
  - subjugate
the opposite camp.

8. Definition

IDES != FUD
IDES = intimidate demoralize emasculate subjugate

-Yib

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