Re: Shannon Dosemagen and the FSF

[Alfred M. Szmidt]

   Etc is indeed orthogonal to the software freedoms, but the FSF
   does not focus on it.

There is a slight confusion here and it is the line between the FSF
and the GNU project -- the GNU project (nee RMS) started the FSF to
support it -- so by extention it has always focused on the same issues
as the GNU project.  Specially in its infancy.

Later, the FSF has broadend its scope, and several of the issues you
raise are issues that the FSF has concentrated its efforts towards.
https://www.fsf.org/campaigns/ has a very good run down on current,
and previous campaigns.  For example, with regard to privacy:
https://www.fsf.org/campaigns/surveillance/

Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] openspace

[Alexander Vdolainen]

hi

On Wednesday, 4 March 2020 16:47:21 EET Ruben Safir wrote:
> On 3/4/20 8:41 AM, Alexander Vdolainen wrote:
> > On Wednesday, 4 March 2020 15:15:15 EET Ruben Safir wrote:
> >> http://wiki.openspaceproject.com/docs/developers/compiling/ubuntu
> >> 
> >> :(
> >> 
> >> Umbuntu is not Linux.  :(
> > 
> > Why ?
> > 
> > Linux is a kernel, ubuntu is running on the linux kernel.
> > Going further, as far as I know ubuntu uses GNU userland and some common
> > things like X11 etc ...  - that means instruction is applicable for other
> > linux-running Oses with the same userland (excluding stuff about package
> > management).
> 
> I think they also have a custom kernel, much like SuSE, although I might
> be wrong.  Did you compile it and run with the the GIEA data?
I've spent some time, and I was able to build this. It's trying to run (I've 
got a startup screen with a lot of messages about data downloading), but my 
version from the git has a bug:

*** longjmp causes uninitialized stack frame ***: ./OpenSpace terminated
zsh: abort  ./OpenSpace

At the moment my spare time is quite limited to go deeper than already made, 
but will try to do it later. (openspace is going to be interesting).


PS I'm using gentoo (the cause has been lost during the last 10yrs.), well - 
in my configuration only gdal were required to install. 


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Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] openspace

[Alexander Vdolainen]

On Wednesday, 4 March 2020 14:14:26 EET Ruben Safir wrote:
> On 3/4/20 7:09 AM, Alexander Vdolainen wrote:
> > hi
> > 
> > On Wednesday, 4 March 2020 04:05:08 EET Ruben Safir wrote:
> >> https://www.openspaceproject.com/
> >> 
> >> Check this out.  It should be ported to GNU/Linux
> > 
> > it's already done. you can build this.
> > 
> >> Reuvain
> 
> there is source but it doesn't compile
> You have instructions? 
instruction is there - http://wiki.openspaceproject.com/docs/developers/
compiling/ubuntu

> This is an important NASA initiative.


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Re: [Hangout - NYLXS] openspace

[Alexander Vdolainen]

On Wednesday, 4 March 2020 15:15:15 EET Ruben Safir wrote:
> http://wiki.openspaceproject.com/docs/developers/compiling/ubuntu
> 
> :(
> 
> Umbuntu is not Linux.  :(
Why ?

Linux is a kernel, ubuntu is running on the linux kernel. 
Going further, as far as I know ubuntu uses GNU userland and some common 
things like X11 etc ...  - that means instruction is applicable for other 
linux-running Oses with the same userland (excluding stuff about package 
management). 


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Re: Shannon Dosemagen and the FSF

[Kaz Kylheku (gnu-misc-discuss)]

On 2020-03-02 11:01, Leo Famulari wrote:

I am familiar with the Public Lab (2 words) and I think their work
will be quite interesting to free software hackers.


I don't have a shred of interest in it; I must not be a free
software hacker.


collaborations, not just over email. It makes sense to me to exclude
people who would find their Code of Conduct off-putting.


But the Code of Conduct is supposed to exclude those who violate
it, not those who find it off-putting.

Plenty of perfectly good people find that sort of thing
off-putting, and you will find plenty of those sorts of free
thinkers in the realm of free software hacking.

Check this out:

https://nocodeofconduct.com/

Re: Shannon Dosemagen and the FSF

[Ineiev]

On Mon, Mar 02, 2020 at 02:06:25PM -0500, Leo Famulari wrote:
> John Darrington wrote:
>
> > Over the last few years many people have noticed a shift towards
> > extremist support of idealogy which is orthogonal to the Free
> > Software cause.
>
> Issues like privacy online, software patents, DRM, open document
> formats, etc are also orthogonal to the 4 software freedoms but I
> do think they are relevant enough that it makes sense for the FSF
> to focus on them.

Privacy online is a complicated issue, and parts of it do
relate to giving up control over one's own computing,
https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/who-does-that-server-really-serve.html

Software patents directly obstruct software freedom,
https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/software-patents.html

DRM denies people freedom 1,
https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/opposing-drm.html

Proprietary formats are impossible (or very hard) to process
with free software,
https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html

Etc is indeed orthogonal to the software freedoms, but the FSF
does not focus on it.


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Re: Shannon Dosemagen and the FSF

[Greg Farough]

On Mon, Mar 02 2020, "Leo Famulari"  wrote:

> I am familiar with the Public Lab (2 words) and I think their work
> will be quite interesting to free software hackers. They design and
> sell open-source tools for things like environmental testing, which
> is typically the realm of government and big business. It's not a
> direct correlation to software but I'm sure we can all see the
> similarities.

Public Lab was also a winner of the 2017 Free Software Awards:


-g

Re: feeling intimidated for endorsing the GNU social contract

[Jean Louis]

* Mark Wielaard  [2020-02-29 02:39]:
> Of course the FSF is involved in GNU governance. They raise money in
> the name of GNU, we assign copyright to the FSF, they hold all our
> assets, and they keep lists of people who may use those resources for
> which purposes.

First there was RMS, then GNU, then FSF.

Raising money in the name of GNU is quite welcome by anybody, you are
also free to raise money in the name of GNU, why not, GNU project will
gladly accept donations. That does not relate to any governance.

Assigning copyrights to FSF is quite a good protection that is
expected to last over longer periods of time. Foundations as FSF are
founded for the reason to carry on in the future and ensure the
financial existence of various projects. There is nothing wrong that
any type of foundation holds funds for GNU and financially supports
GNU and any other free software. This alone does not speak or relate
to any governance by definition. In fact, me or you, we could setup a
foundation for the same purpose and collect funds for GNU, but we do
not govern it.

Holding "all assets" is also similar, it is and may not be
"governance". Foundations are registered for exactly such purposes to
hold assets, so that assets are not in personal name. Normally,
foundations have control over assets, however, that is up to the
founder to decide what type of control is given to the
foundation. That still does not say nor automatically assign
governance of GNU to the FSF. It is obvious from both websites that
FSF does not govern GNU project, so your statements lack some legal
analysis.

Keeping a list of people means not that organization is governing
something else, like GNU, but only the list in question.

I have 26 employees currently, each of them is having their tools,
uniforms, and they govern what they were given to govern, exactly
those specific tools and uniforms, and that is all by my decision, so
that does not make those people "govern" the business.

> The FSF is the legal entity which runs GNU.

Incorrect.

> We should coordinate governance issues with the FSF.

Ha ha ha.

Number one, if you are not voting member in the FSF, there is nothing
to say for FSF. If you are not on board, there is nothing to say or
demand, it is private foundation, not public.

Number two, both GNU and FSF are private projects. Your attempts are
not legitimate.

> There are lots of issues which are the shared responsibility of GNU
> volunteers and the FSF.

Responsibility and control are related but not same. You may have
responsibility and promote GNU and free software in your own area. I
am doing it myself in my specific area. Thus responsibility is always
free to take and to conduct.

> Given that GNU is a program of the FSF I do think they have such a
> responsibility to all GNU volunteers.

Sorry.

First there was RMS, then GNU, then FSF.

RMS have founded FSF for the financial survival and promotion of free
software.

GNU is not a program of the FSF, just as the father cannot be the son
of his own son. It is not logical.

First there was RMS, then GNU, then FSF.

> The FSF encourages adopting an anti-harassment guide and I think we
> should take that much more serious:
> https://www.fsf.org/campaigns/priority-projects/contribute

Harassment is in many countries illegal, feel free to use the legal
recourses if you feel harassed.

In many civilized countries it is also illegal to accuse a person of
harassment if it was not the case, as that may amount to defamation,
and various other illegal acts.

Jean