Re: [News] SFLC Responds to Copyright Misconceptions, Presents Moglen Talk

2010-02-10 Thread Alexander Terekhov

Spamowitz Roy
http://boycott-boycottnovell.com/index.php/the-news/88-roy-schestowitz-demands-expansion-of-qgodwins-lawq
wrote:
 
 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
 Hash: SHA1
 
 Copyrights and wrongs
 
 http://blogs.the451group.com/opensource/2010/02/08/copyrights-and-wrongs/
 
 See comments.

Huh?

In comments, Larry Rosen correctly noted:

Under US copyright law, only “the legal or beneficial owner of an
exclusive right is entitled ... to institute an action for any
infringement of that particular right...” 17 USC 501. So if all you have
is a non-exclusive license, or indeed if all you have is joint
ownership, you cannot enforce that copyright in court without the other
owners joining in. 

At some point, the New York bar will have no choice but to disbar the
entire gang of utterly incompetent GNU arch legal beagles from SFLC for
consistent filing of frivolous lawsuits such as
http://www.softwarefreedom.org/news/2009/dec/14/busybox-gpl-lawsuit/ in
which (1) the Software Freedom Conservancy is utterly frivolous
'plaintiff' because it doesn't own ANY busybox copyrights and (2) Erik
Andersen is also utterly frivolous 'plaintiff' because he was NOT joined
by Bruce Perens and other contributors to the joint work known as
busybox at http://busybox.net/.

regards,
alexander.

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Re: [News] SFLC Responds to Copyright Misconceptions, Presents Moglen Talk

2010-02-10 Thread David Kastrup
Alexander Terekhov terek...@web.de writes:

 At some point, the New York bar will have no choice but to disbar the
 entire gang of utterly incompetent GNU arch legal beagles from SFLC
 for consistent filing of frivolous lawsuits such as
 http://www.softwarefreedom.org/news/2009/dec/14/busybox-gpl-lawsuit/
 in which (1) the Software Freedom Conservancy is utterly frivolous
 'plaintiff' because it doesn't own ANY busybox copyrights and (2) Erik
 Andersen is also utterly frivolous 'plaintiff' because he was NOT
 joined by Bruce Perens and other contributors to the joint work known
 as busybox at http://busybox.net/.

Under your legal theories, Apple could not sue for violation of MacOSX
licenses unless Berkeley university joins their lawsuit.

But it's certainly not the first time that the reality in the courts
does not match your wet dreams.  You'll be sulking over drunken judges
and whatever else soon again, no doubt.

-- 
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Re: [News] SFLC Responds to Copyright Misconceptions, Presents Moglen Talk

2010-02-10 Thread Hyman Rosen

On 2/10/2010 10:08 AM, Alexander Terekhov wrote:

At some point, the New York bar will have no choice but to disbar the
entire gang of utterly incompetent GNU arch legal beagles from SFLC for
consistent filing of frivolous lawsuits such as
http://www.softwarefreedom.org/news/2009/dec/14/busybox-gpl-lawsuit/ in
which (1) the Software Freedom Conservancy is utterly frivolous
'plaintiff' because it doesn't own ANY busybox copyrights and (2) Erik
Andersen is also utterly frivolous 'plaintiff' because he was NOT joined
by Bruce Perens and other contributors to the joint work known as
busybox at http://busybox.net/.


The SFLC has had successful outcomes in every single case
that it has filed - all defendants have come into compliance
with the GPL. No defendant has chosen to fight the plaintiffs.
I understand how frustrating it must be for the GPL skeptics
to see such untrammeled success, and how they must hope for
some external force to appear and turn things their way. But
that won't happen.

You are also quite wrong about joint works in at leats
four separate ways.

http://library.findlaw.com/1999/Jan/1/241478.html,
According to the Copyright Act, the authors of a joint
work jointly own the copyright in the work they create.
A joint work is defined in Section 101 of the Copyright
Act as a work prepared by two or more authors with the
intention that their contributions be merged into
inseparable or interdependent parts of a unitary whole.

When the copyright in a work is jointly owned, each joint
owner can use or license the work in the United States
without the consent of the other owner, provided that the
use does not destroy the value of the work and the parties
do not have an agreement requiring the consent of each
owner for use or licensing. A joint owner who licenses a
work must share any royalties he or she receives with the
other owners.

First, BusyBox is a joint work only if all the authors have
agreed to make it so. Given that one of the authors is a party
to the suit and can insist that he did not intend to form such
a joint work, the plaintiffs might have a difficult time showing
otherwise.

Second, if BusyBox is a joint work, then each author has full
rights in the work and may sue for infringement without needing
permission from the other authors.

Third, even if BusyBox is a joint work, each contributing author
has released his changes under the GPL, and therefore it may be
argued that there is an agreement in place among the authors that
the only way their work may be copied and distributed is by GPL.

Fourth, even if BusyBox is a joint work, the plaintiffs need to
demonstrate that they have permission to copy and distribute it
in some way other than under the GPL, granted to them by some
author of the joint work. That one author has said after the
suit was filed that he does not want to be a party to it does
not mean that he has granted permission to copy and distribute
BusyBox outside of the GPL.
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Re: [News] SFLC Responds to Copyright Misconceptions, Presents Moglen Talk

2010-02-10 Thread Alexander Terekhov

David Kastrup wrote:
 
 Alexander Terekhov terek...@web.de writes:
 
  David Kastrup wrote:
  [...]
   A compilation work which you call 'MacOSX' is a collective work (see
   17 USC 101 for both 'compilation' and 'collective work') of Apple and
   only Apple, silly.
 
  Without any components with copyright by other parties?
 
  The copyright on components (distinct from the compilation work) is
  totally separate/independent copyright (distinct from the copyright on
  compilation) you retard dak.
 
 So for any component with copyrighted parts from other parties (like
 BSD), Apple could not sue for breach of copyright without having the
 other parties joining the suit?
 
 Reality check...

Apple's COMPILATION WORK is NOT A JOINT WORK you retard.

Apple took some BSD'd works and included that stuff in a compilation
work exclusively (C) by Apple and only Apple.

It's not a joint work under 17 USC 101.

regards,
alexander.

--
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Re: [News] SFLC Responds to Copyright Misconceptions, Presents Moglen Talk

2010-02-10 Thread Hyman Rosen

On 2/10/2010 11:30 AM, RJack wrote:

The plaintiffs chose to file automatic involuntary dismissals


The words chose and involuntary don't go together.
You appear to have ongoing difficulties with the English
language, which perhaps explains some of your difficulty
understanding the GPL and the law.


Why why would a plaintiff answer a Complaint that has been dismissed?


The plaintiffs dismissed their cases once the defendants
agreed to a settlement whereby they would comply with the
GPL, as evidenced by the fact that after the cases were
ended, all the defendants came into compliance with the GPL.
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Re: [News] SFLC Responds to Copyright Misconceptions, Presents Moglen Talk

2010-02-10 Thread David Kastrup
Alexander Terekhov terek...@web.de writes:

 David Kastrup wrote:
 
 So for any component with copyrighted parts from other parties (like
 BSD), Apple could not sue for breach of copyright without having the
 other parties joining the suit?
 
 Reality check...

 Apple's COMPILATION WORK is NOT A JOINT WORK you retard.

 Apple took some BSD'd works and included that stuff in a compilation
 work exclusively (C) by Apple and only Apple.

How did the copyright of BSD come to cease on the portions that Apple
changed?

-- 
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Re: [News] SFLC Responds to Copyright Misconceptions, Presents Moglen Talk

2010-02-10 Thread David Kastrup
RJack u...@example.net writes:

 Hyman Rosen wrote:
 On 2/10/2010 10:08 AM, Alexander Terekhov wrote:
 At some point, the New York bar will have no choice but to disbar
 the entire gang of utterly incompetent GNU arch legal beagles from
 SFLC for consistent filing of frivolous lawsuits such as
 http://www.softwarefreedom.org/news/2009/dec/14/busybox-gpl-lawsuit/
 in which (1) the Software Freedom Conservancy is utterly frivolous
 'plaintiff' because it doesn't own ANY busybox copyrights and (2)
 Erik Andersen is also utterly frivolous 'plaintiff' because he was
 NOT joined by Bruce Perens and other contributors to the joint work
 known as busybox at http://busybox.net/.

 The SFLC has had successful outcomes in every single case that it has
 filed - all defendants have come into compliance with the GPL. No
 defendant has chosen to fight the plaintiffs.

 The plaintiffs chose to file automatic involuntary dismissals before

What's automatic and involuntary about dismissals that are filed
after settling?

 any judge could ever read their frivolous Complaints. Why why would a
 plaintiff answer a Complaint that has been dismissed?

Why would a defendant make the GPLed sources available in the course of
a settlement?

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Re: [News] SFLC Responds to Copyright Misconceptions, Presents Moglen Talk

2010-02-10 Thread Alexander Terekhov

David Kastrup wrote:
[...]
  Apple took some BSD'd works and included that stuff in a compilation
  work exclusively (C) by Apple and only Apple.
 
 How did the copyright of BSD come to cease on the portions that Apple
 changed?

BSD copyright didn't come to cease (it's too early for expiration
and I'm unaware of any abandonment/dedications to the public domain of
the BSD'd works) on the BSD'd portions that Apple changed unless Apple's
changes resulted in a complete removal of BSD'd protected expression.

At this point, why don't you just piss off and call 

http://www.justlanded.com/english/Germany/Germany-Guide/Health/Emergencies

you retard dak?

regards,
alexander.

P.S. It is just like a suit to enforce a copyright license, which
arises under state law rather than under the Copyright Act. 

Hyman's lovin' http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Gaiman_v._McFarlane

P.P.S. the registered work is a compilation

Hyman's lovin' http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Gaiman_v._McFarlane

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Re: [News] SFLC Responds to Copyright Misconceptions, Presents Moglen Talk

2010-02-10 Thread David Kastrup
Alexander Terekhov terek...@web.de writes:

 David Kastrup wrote:
 [...]
  Apple took some BSD'd works and included that stuff in a compilation
  work exclusively (C) by Apple and only Apple.
 
 How did the copyright of BSD come to cease on the portions that Apple
 changed?

 BSD copyright didn't come to cease (it's too early for expiration
 and I'm unaware of any abandonment/dedications to the public domain of
 the BSD'd works) on the BSD'd portions that Apple changed unless
 Apple's changes resulted in a complete removal of BSD'd protected
 expression.

Ah, so that means that according to your legal theories, we have a
joint copyright situation for those portions, and anybody can take any
parts of Apple's changes and use them without worry, since Apple could
only possibly sue if it managed to get Berkeley interested to sue
together with them, and Berkeley's choice of license made perfectly
clear that Berkeley is not interested much in suing.

Do you really not understand why your theories about the GPL case are so
absurd and don't stand up to real world cases?

 At this point, why don't you just piss off and call 

 http://www.justlanded.com/english/Germany/Germany-Guide/Health/Emergencies

 you retard dak?

It's funny how every time you are shown to be wrong, you holler for
doctors, medications, and retards.  Not to mention drunk judges.

Such a transparent maneuver, and what a pathetic excuse for a smoke
screen.

-- 
David Kastrup
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Re: [News] SFLC Responds to Copyright Misconceptions, Presents Moglen Talk

2010-02-10 Thread Alexander Terekhov

David Kastrup wrote:
[...]
 Why would a defendant make the GPLed sources available

There's no reason to do it -- to wit:

http://www2.verizon.net/micro/actiontec/actiontec.asp

To Hyman: take your meds first!

regards,
alexander.

P.S. It is just like a suit to enforce a copyright license, which
arises under state law rather than under the Copyright Act. 

Hyman's lovin' http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Gaiman_v._McFarlane

P.P.S. the registered work is a compilation

Hyman's lovin' http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Gaiman_v._McFarlane

--
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Re: [News] SFLC Responds to Copyright Misconceptions, Presents Moglen Talk

2010-02-10 Thread David Kastrup
Alexander Terekhov terek...@web.de writes:

 David Kastrup wrote:
 [...]
 Why would a defendant make the GPLed sources available

 There's no reason to do it -- to wit:

 http://www2.verizon.net/micro/actiontec/actiontec.asp

That's a link to a firmware upgrade.  This firmware update is
applicable to both Actiontec and Verizon branded FiOS Routers.  As I
hear, those routers come with a manual detailing where to get the source
to the firmware.  The links have been pointed out to you as well.

 To Hyman: take your meds first!

Oh you are running out of arguments again?

-- 
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Re: [News] SFLC Responds to Copyright Misconceptions, Presents Moglen Talk

2010-02-10 Thread Alexander Terekhov

David Kastrup wrote:
[...]
  BSD copyright didn't come to cease (it's too early for expiration
  and I'm unaware of any abandonment/dedications to the public domain of
  the BSD'd works) on the BSD'd portions that Apple changed unless
  Apple's changes resulted in a complete removal of BSD'd protected
  expression.
 
 Ah, so that means that according to your legal theories, we have a
 joint copyright situation for those portions, and anybody can take any

It's quite reasonable to expect that Apple's BSD layer fork known as
Darwin http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwin_(operating_system) work may
well contain joint copyright portions, dak.

I know this whole material is too complicated to grok for someone of
your intellectual capacity...

Hey GNUtian dak, BTW:

http://www.tug.org/interviews/kastrup.html

Please note that shareware is not free software. The principal problem
with free software as a business model is that there really is little in
the way of bootstrapping it. Programmers tend to be “mad scientists” to
some degree or other, and TeX programming mostly has attraction for the
worst of those. This means that you often have people with a bad
judgment concerning business requirements and project management and
time planning and customer interaction. For proprietary software, this
is less of a problem: if you are the only supplier for a marketable
product, poor market interaction does not kill your business prospects.
In a free software market, however, being the developer of a product
gives you just a headstart for marketing your own product, but it does
not put anybody else out of the race. 

(LOL)

Don't you know that

http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/words-to-avoid.html

“Market”

It is misleading to describe the users of free software, or the software
users in general, as a “market.”

right, GNUtian dak?

regards,
alexander.

P.S. It is just like a suit to enforce a copyright license, which
arises under state law rather than under the Copyright Act. 

Hyman's lovin' http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Gaiman_v._McFarlane

P.P.S. the registered work is a compilation

Hyman's lovin' http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Gaiman_v._McFarlane

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Re: [News] SFLC Responds to Copyright Misconceptions, Presents Moglen Talk

2010-02-10 Thread Alexander Terekhov

David Kastrup wrote:
 
 Alexander Terekhov terek...@web.de writes:
 
  David Kastrup wrote:
  [...]
  Why would a defendant make the GPLed sources available
 
  There's no reason to do it -- to wit:
 
  http://www2.verizon.net/micro/actiontec/actiontec.asp
 
 That's a link to a firmware upgrade.  This firmware update is
 applicable to both Actiontec and Verizon branded FiOS Routers.  As I
 hear, those routers come with a manual detailing where to get the source
 to the firmware.  The links have been pointed out to you as well.

That where to get is NOT Verizon's location and has nothing to do with
Verison's location above, silly dak.

regards,
alexander.

P.S. It is just like a suit to enforce a copyright license, which
arises under state law rather than under the Copyright Act. 

Hyman's lovin' http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Gaiman_v._McFarlane

P.P.S. the registered work is a compilation

Hyman's lovin' http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Gaiman_v._McFarlane

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Re: [News] SFLC Responds to Copyright Misconceptions, Presents Moglen Talk

2010-02-10 Thread RJack

Hyman Rosen wrote:

On 2/10/2010 10:39 AM, Alexander Terekhov wrote:

Erik Andersen's alleged (and fraudulent in fact) claim of ownership



http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Gaiman_v._McFarlane In addition to
the copyright notices, McFarlane registered copyright on the issues
and the books. ... McFarlane’s registrations no more revealed an
intent to claim copyright in Gaiman’s contributions, as distinct from
McFarlane’s own contributions as compiler and illustrator, than the
copyright notices did. The significance of registration is that it is
a prerequisite to a suit to enforce a copyright.

GPL skeptics are so wrong, in so many ways.


1) The Best Buys et.al. suit filed by the SFLC is in the Second Circuit
not the Seventh Circuit of the Gaiman_v._McFarlane suit.
2) The Gaiman_v._McFarlane suit was about a declaration of ownership,
not a copy infringement suit.
3) You're mixing out of context apples and oranges issues:
POSNER, Circuit Judge. Neil Gaiman brought suit under the Copyright Act
against Todd McFarlane and corporations controlled by him that we can
ignore, seeking a declaration that he (Gaiman) owns copyrights jointly
with McFarlane in certain comic-book characters.


Erik Andersen signed a *Complaint* explicitly claiming that:

20. Mr. Andersen is the author and developer of the BusyBox computer
program, and the owner of copyrights in that computer program. BusyBox
is a single computer program that comprises a set of computing tools and
optimizes them for computers with limited resources, such as cell
phones, PDAs, and other small, specialized electronic devices.

Erik Andersen is *not* the author of the single computer program
know as BusyBox -- this is a patently false statement.

23. Under the License, Mr. Andersen grants certain permissions to other
parties to copy, modify and redistribute BusyBox so long as those
parties satisfy certain conditions.

Notice that *Mr Andersen* grants... -- doesn't say *the developers*
of BusyBox grant...

31. Mr. Andersen is, and at all relevant times has been, a copyright
owner under United States copyright law in the FOSS software program
known as BusyBox. See, e.g., “BusyBox, v.0.60.3.”, Copyright Reg. No.
TX0006869051 (10/2/2008).

Here is the release of busybox-0.60.3 that Erik claims he authored.
http://www.busybox.net/downloads/legacy/

Decompress it and see if Erik claims a compilation copyright on the
arrangement and selection of the source code. Let's grant that he does
have a copyright on the arrangement of that specific tarball release.
Remember that the copyright resides in the specific arrangement and
selection of the constituent elements in a compilation. That was on
27-Apr-2002 (735K). Are you seriously claiming that the fourteen
defendants in the pending SFLC suit are infringing *that* particular
arrangement “BusyBox, v.0.60.3”? The last 2008 release is
busybox-1.13.2.tar.bz2-31-Dec-2008. The source tarball with more
efficient compression is 2.0M -- three times as large with thousands
of patches.

The current SFLC lawsuit is so fucked up it doesn't even deserve the
label wrong. Eben Moglen is an incompetent socialist moron.

Hyman Rosen sez, The Captain's scared them out of the water!
http://www.fini.tv/blog/finishing_line_files/a44f9390355368f87dc47b7ec094f93e-36.php

ROFL. ROFL. ROFL.

Sincerely,
Rjack :)








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Re: [News] SFLC Responds to Copyright Misconceptions, Presents Moglen Talk

2010-02-10 Thread David Kastrup
RJack u...@example.net writes:

 David Kastrup wrote:
 RJack u...@example.net writes:

 Hyman Rosen wrote:

 The SFLC has had successful outcomes in every single case that it
  has filed - all defendants have come into compliance with the
 GPL. No defendant has chosen to fight the plaintiffs.
 The plaintiffs chose to file automatic involuntary dismissals
 before

 What's automatic and involuntary about dismissals that are filed
 after settling?

 any judge could ever read their frivolous Complaints. Why why would
  a plaintiff answer a Complaint that has been dismissed?

 Why would a defendant make the GPLed sources available in the course
 of a settlement?

 If the full force and credibility of your arguments turn on others
 hurried typographical errors, you've got even bigger problems than I
 first imagined.  Retreat to that tactic implies an utterly desperate
 lack of serious intellect.

Well, appears like you have answered hurriedly again, since my reply had
nothing whatsoever to do with typographical errors.  Maybe you'll appear
like less of an idiot if you actually read what you are responding to.

What that does imply for the imaginary problems you fancy me having will
likely remain your secret.  And what this kind of evasive tactics and
nonsensical accusations imply for you in the category utterly desperate
lack of serious intellect is pretty easy for everyone to see.

-- 
David Kastrup
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Re: [News] SFLC Responds to Copyright Misconceptions, Presents Moglen Talk

2010-02-10 Thread Hyman Rosen

On 2/10/2010 1:15 PM, Alexander Terekhov wrote:

That where to get is NOT Verizon's location and has nothing to do with
Verison's location above, silly dak.


The online distribution of GPLed firmware by Verizon is
accompanied by source found at
http://www22.verizon.com/ResidentialHelp/FiOSInternet/Networking/Troubleshooting/QuestionsOne/124346.htm.
Verizon also makes source available through the offer of
a physical copy for no more than distribution costs ($10)
listed on the same page.

The manufacturers of the hardware also make source
available at http://opensource.actiontec.com/, and
offer physical copies for $10 as well.
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Re: [News] SFLC Responds to Copyright Misconceptions, Presents Moglen Talk

2010-02-10 Thread Peter Köhlmann
Alexander Terekhov wrote:

 
 Peter Köhlmann wrote:
 [...]
  That where to get is NOT Verizon's location and has nothing to do
  with Verison's location above, silly dak.
 
 
 Oh, and you twit can certainly point to the exact place in the GPL
 where
 
 http://linuxidiots.blogspot.com/2007/09/peter-khlmann-liar.html
 
 The Peter Köhlmann liar

So you admit that you have no such link or citation

Figures. You are as dishonest as Snot Michael Glasser
-- 
The probability of someone watching you is proportional to the
stupidity of your action.

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Re: [News] SFLC Responds to Copyright Misconceptions, Presents Moglen Talk

2010-02-10 Thread RJack

RJack wrote:

Hyman Rosen wrote:

On 2/10/2010 10:39 AM, Alexander Terekhov wrote:

Erik Andersen's alleged (and fraudulent in fact) claim of
ownership



http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Gaiman_v._McFarlane In addition to 
the copyright notices, McFarlane registered copyright on the issues
 and the books. ... McFarlane’s registrations no more revealed an 
intent to claim copyright in Gaiman’s contributions, as distinct

from McFarlane’s own contributions as compiler and illustrator,
than the copyright notices did. The significance of registration is
that it is a prerequisite to a suit to enforce a copyright.

GPL skeptics are so wrong, in so many ways.



37 CFR § 202.3   Registration of copyright.

(a) General.

(1) This section prescribes conditions for the registration of
copyright, and the application to be made for registration under
sections 408 and 409 of title 17 of the United States Code, as amended
by Pub. L. 94–553.

(2) For the purposes of this section, the terms audiovisual work ,
compilation , copy , derivative work , device , fixation , literary work
, motion picture , phonorecord , pictorial, graphic and sculptural works
, process , sound recording , and their variant forms, have the meanings
set forth in section 101 of title 17. The term author includes an
employer or other person for whom a work is “made for hire” under
section 101 of title 17.

(3) For the purposes of this section, a copyright claimant is either:

(i) The author of a work;

(ii) A person or organization that has obtained ownership of all rights
under the copyright initially belonging to the author.

---

1) Is Erik Anderson the author of release tarball BusyBox,
v.0.60.3.tar.bz2?

3) Is Erik Anderson a person that has obtained ownership of all rights
in release BusyBox, v.0.60.3.tar.bz2?

Sincerely,
RJack






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Re: [News] SFLC Responds to Copyright Misconceptions, Presents Moglen Talk

2010-02-10 Thread Hyman Rosen

On 2/10/2010 3:53 PM, RJack wrote:

37 CFR § 202.3 Registration of copyright.
(3) For the purposes of this section, a copyright claimant is either:
(i) The author of a work;
(ii) A person or organization that has obtained ownership of all rights
under the copyright initially belonging to the author.

1) Is Erik Anderson the author of release tarball BusyBox,
v.0.60.3.tar.bz2?


Yes: http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Gaiman_v._McFarlane
McFarlane’s registrations no more revealed an intent
to claim copyright in Gaiman’s contributions, as
distinct from McFarlane’s own contributions as compiler
and illustrator, than the copyright notices did. The
significance of registration is that it is a prerequisite
to a suit to enforce a copyright.


3) Is Erik Anderson a person that has obtained ownership of all rights
in release BusyBox, v.0.60.3.tar.bz2?


No.
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