Re: RFC: Bug in currency display in the main window

[Herbert Thoma]

You are absolutely right. "GnuCash does not cover all aspects
of multiple currencies yet", this is a quotation out of the
documentation. In fact it covers very few aspects.

There is an other problem: the status bar. If in your example

> export LC_ALL=; export LANG=C
> 
> Displays in gnucash:
> 
> account namecurrencybalance
> ---
> usbank  USD $1000
> swissbank   CHF $2000

usbank and swissbank are normal bank accounts (not currency accounts)
the assets value in the status bar gets $3000, which is nonsense, too.

> Another problem with the second solution is, that the routines dealing
> with the balance:
> 
> xaccPrintAmount()
> xaccSPrintAmount()
> gnc_localeconv()
> 
> don't give a frogs eye about their context, so that would be additional 
> trouble, to carry the correct context through all of them.

Yes. In my opinion the currency symbol should not be based on locale, but
on the account's curenncy field. this would require an additional
parameter to the ...PrintAmount() functions.

> I'm ready to try to figure out a patch. Any opinions?
> *t

The "main developers" are currently at the comdex (17. April - 20. April),
so I would wait with a patch until the main developers (Linas Vepstas, Dave
Peticolas, Rob Browning, and others) have commented to your RFC.

 Herbert.
-- 
Herbert Thoma
FhG-IIS A, Studio Department
Am Weichselgarten3, 91058 Erlangen, Germany
Phone: +49-9131-776-323
Fax:   +49-9131-776-399
email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
www: http://www.iis.fhg.de/

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Re: This isn't exactly development related but...

[Herbert Thoma]

Phil Sumner wrote:
> 
> It's the only support I can find :-\
> 
> I've got gnucash version 1.2.5 compiled and installed, but I'm unable to
> actually run the program.  I get the following startup msgs:
> 
> gnucash: bootstrap file is/usr/local/share/gnucash/scm/bootstrap.scm
> gnucash: [W] "failure loading ""/usr/local/share/gnucash/scm/prefs.scm"
> gnucash: [W] "failure loading ""/usr/local/share/gnucash/scm/text-export.scm"
> ERROR: Unbound variable: gnc:*config-dir*
> 
> I've looked around all the aforementioned files but can't find anything
> that looks promising :-(
> 
> Running SuSE 6.3.
> 
> Many thanks in advance,
> Phil Sumner

Do you have slib properly installed? You may need to run GnuCash once as
root because guile needs to setup some things for slib.

 Herbert.

BTW: You should try GnuCash 1.3.5. Despite its status as development
version it is stable, it has much more features and it brings a
README-SuSE6.3 ...
-- 
Herbert Thoma
FhG-IIS A, Studio Department
Am Weichselgarten3, 91058 Erlangen, Germany
Phone: +49-9131-776-323
Fax:   +49-9131-776-399
email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
www: http://www.iis.fhg.de/

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Re: multiple currencies

[Christopher Browne]

On Mon, 17 Apr 2000 16:50:05 +0200, the world broke into rejoicing as
Herbert Thoma <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  said:
> Peter van Rossum wrote:
> > Thanks. I'll look through the archives to see what is said there. I
> > do have the impression, though, that the problem with multiple currencies
> > is even worse. If I buy 100 shares at $20 and then another 100 shares
> > at $30, I have a total number of 200 shares at a value of $5000 (at least,
> > I hope that's what gnucash does and not 200 x $30 = $6000; I haven't
> > checked...). 
> 
> Actually GnuCash does 200 x $30. But I think most people want it this
> way. Your way (100 x $20 + 100 x $30) is "how much spent". Most people
> want "current worth". They do daily stock price update with gnc-prices
> and want to see their current value. So you must do 
> nr_of_shares x current_price.

The question is whether that's what you report in the _register_, 
or if that is what is reported in the share value reports.

My inclination (which is somewhat educated in the matter :-)) is to have
the register report _Cost._  Cost does not change over time, and since
it tends to reflect cash changing hands, it is _fairly_ objective.

Furthermore, this approach has the _further_ merit that the register's
contents don't have to change every time the portfolio gets revalued
based on the latest prices.

The alternative is that the amounts in the register keep changing, and
you have to have a "split" on the transaction that changes value every
time prices come in.  That would be rather _neat,_ but not terribly
sensible.  Transactions _shouldn't_ change all the time.
--
"The only ``intuitive'' interface is the nipple. After that, it's all
learned."  -- Bruce Ediger, [EMAIL PROTECTED] on X interfaces.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] - 

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Re: multiple currencies

[Herbert Thoma]

Christopher Browne wrote:
> 
> On Mon, 17 Apr 2000 16:50:05 +0200, the world broke into rejoicing as
> Herbert Thoma <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  said:
> > Peter van Rossum wrote:
> > > Thanks. I'll look through the archives to see what is said there. I
> > > do have the impression, though, that the problem with multiple currencies
> > > is even worse. If I buy 100 shares at $20 and then another 100 shares
> > > at $30, I have a total number of 200 shares at a value of $5000 (at least,
> > > I hope that's what gnucash does and not 200 x $30 = $6000; I haven't
> > > checked...).
> >
> > Actually GnuCash does 200 x $30. But I think most people want it this
> > way. Your way (100 x $20 + 100 x $30) is "how much spent". Most people
> > want "current worth". They do daily stock price update with gnc-prices
> > and want to see their current value. So you must do
> > nr_of_shares x current_price.
> 
> The question is whether that's what you report in the _register_,
> or if that is what is reported in the share value reports.
> 
> My inclination (which is somewhat educated in the matter :-)) is to have
> the register report _Cost._  Cost does not change over time, and since
> it tends to reflect cash changing hands, it is _fairly_ objective.

I agree. But I think that the engine does not work this way, although
I don't know the engine well enough to be sure. I think the engine
works this way: It has a balance of total shares and the most recent
price per share. The reported balance then gets total_shares x price_per_share.
To do it right we may have to change the engine and the stock register.

All those who know the engine better, please comment.

 Herbert.
-- 
Herbert Thoma
FhG-IIS A, Studio Department
Am Weichselgarten3, 91058 Erlangen, Germany
Phone: +49-9131-776-323
Fax:   +49-9131-776-399
email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
www: http://www.iis.fhg.de/

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Re: multiple currencies

[Hendrik Boom]

> Christopher Browne wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > My inclination (which is somewhat educated in the matter :-)) is to have
> > the register report _Cost._  Cost does not change over time, and since
> > it tends to reflect cash changing hands, it is _fairly_ objective.
> 
> I agree. But I think that the engine does not work this way, although
> I don't know the engine well enough to be sure. I think the engine
> works this way: It has a balance of total shares and the most recent
> price per share. The reported balance then gets total_shares x price_per_share.
> To do it right we may have to change the engine and the stock register.
> 
> All those who know the engine better, please comment.

It sounds to me that when the balance changes because of price changes,
this needs to be realized by a transaction, which, of course, needs to
be balanced by an entry into some kind of unrealized capital gains account.

-- hendrik.
 


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Re: RFC: Bug in currency display in the main window

[Bill Gribble]

Herbert Thoma <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> You are absolutely right. "GnuCash does not cover all aspects
> of multiple currencies yet", this is a quotation out of the
> documentation. In fact it covers very few aspects.

I am no expert on either internationalization or multiple currency
bookkeeping, which is why I have kept my mouth shut during this
discussion.  I just wanted to mention that getting
internationalization and multiple currency support correct is a major
priority with Rob, Dave, and Linas before a next big release; it's
just not crystal-clear what the correct answer is, and the guy with
the most knowledge (Linas) has been pretty darn busy lately what with
a new baby and everything else.

Bill Gribble


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dlpRecAttr* flags in pi-dlp.h

[Robert Graham Merkel]

I've finally found the time to have a look at modifying the expense
tracker conduit to support gnucash, and examining the existing code
to try and get it to only read new records.

It appears that reading the expense data from the existing conduit
does not modify any of the attributes (ie dlpRecAttrDirty is 
true for all records, and any archived records have dlpRecAttrArchived
set).

Based on the comments in pi-dlp.h, dlpRecAttrDirty is set if the
record has been modified (presumably meaning "since last
synchronization operation), and dlpRecAttrArchived is set if the
record is to be archived at the next synchronization.  I further
presume that these flags should then be cleared after synchronization.
Am I correct, and where do I go looking for functions to do this
stuff?

TIA for any help.

-- 

Robert Merkel  [EMAIL PROTECTED]



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Re: RFC: Bug in currency display in the main window

[T.Pospisek's MailLists]

On Tue, 18 Apr 2000, Herbert Thoma wrote:

> There is an other problem: the status bar. If in your example
> 
> > export LC_ALL=; export LANG=C
> > 
> > Displays in gnucash:
> > 
> > account namecurrencybalance
> > ---
> > usbank  USD $1000
> > swissbank   CHF $2000
> 
> usbank and swissbank are normal bank accounts (not currency accounts)
> the assets value in the status bar gets $3000, which is nonsense, too.

Actually it doesn't matter what they are - currency accounts, banks or
whatever. The balance is -allways- showing the symbol taken from the
locale and doesn't have anything to do with the semantics of the
account.

> Yes. In my opinion the currency symbol should not be based on locale, but
> on the account's curenncy field. this would require an additional
> parameter to the ...PrintAmount() functions.

Are you aware of any trick that's able to extract the currency symbol from
the locales, knowing the name of the currency?

USD -> .?. -> locales -> $
CHF -> .?. -> locales -> Fr.

*t


 Tomas Pospisek - Freelance: Linuxing, Networking
   http://spin.ch/~tpo/freelance



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Re: Reversed-balance accounts

[tboldt]

Accounts - credit - debit

According to Webster's Ninth New Collegiate Dictionary. (Hopefully by
the ninth they got it right).

Credit: 1) an entry on the right-hand side of an account
constituting an addition to a revenue, net worth, or liability
account. 2) a deduction from an expense or asset account.
-- a deduction from an amount otherwise due.

Debit: 1) a record of an indebtedness; specifically; an entry on
the left-hand side of an account constituting an addition to an
expense or asset account or a deduction from a revenue, net worth, or
liability account. 3) a charge against a bank deposit account.

Liability: pecuniary obligations: debts
- one that works as a disadvantage.

Net Worth: Free from all charges or deductions: as - remaining
after the deductions of all charges, outlays, or loss.

Revenue: the total income produced by a given source.

-

The definitions of 'credit' and 'debit' seem to be contradictory
and this leads to the confusion in most peoples minds. Take the
example of a bank and an individual dealing with the bank.

The individual deposits $1,000 USD into a bank checking account at
an agreed upon interest rate paid by the bank.

>From the banks perspective, this constitutues an indebtedness,
they are liable to the individual for $1,000 USD. Thus, the bank
'credits' a liability account and 'debits' an asset account. So far
this coincides with most peoples "common sense" understanding of
'credit' and 'debit'.

This also agrees with what most people would consider an asset and
a liability representing a future payment, $1,000 USD, and possible
expense, the agreed upon interest. The deposit of the $1,000 USD is a
liability to the bank, not an asset, thus 'credit liability' and
'debit assets'.

Now consider that the bank loans the individual $1,500 USD to
purchase some feed/seed grain. Again at an agreed upon interest rate.
>From the banks perspective, the $1,500 USD is an indebtedness TO them
by the individual and thus is an asset. Correspondingly they 'credit'
an asset account and 'debit' a liability account.

Again this agrees with the "common sense" definitions of most
people of assets and liabilities. The loan to the individual is an
asset for the bank representing a future return, with income in the
form of interest payments. Thus, the bank 'credits assets' and 'debits
liabilities'.

Now if all the 'accounting books' in the world were maintained
only by banks and only from the perspective of banks, we could stop
here and there would be no confusion. However, the individual
maintains his/her own account books and does so from their perspective
and not that of the bank.

>From the perspective of the individual, the $1,000 USD deposited
into the bank checking account is a loan to the bank for an
indefinite period at an agreed upon interest rate, which may be zero.
Thus, the bank deposit is an indebtedness TO the individual by the
bank and thus is an asset. Correspondingly, the individual makes a
'credit' to an asset account and a 'debit' to a liability account.
Just as the bank did for their loan of $1,500 USD to the individual.

Again, this really agrees with the "common sense" definition of
'credit' and 'debit'. The individual has made a loan to the bank
representing a future return and maybe income as interest. Thus, the
deposit is a 'credit to an asset account' and a 'debit to a liability
account' for the individual.

The $1,500 USD loaned to the individual by the bank at an agreed
upon interest rate is now a liability to the individual. The
individual is indebted to the bank for $1,500 USD. Correspondingly the
individual credits a liability account and debits an asset account.

Again, this agrees with the "common sense" definitions of most
people. The individual has received a loan from the bank representing
future payments on principle and future interest payments. Thus
'credit liabilities' and 'debit assets'.

To summarize:
Deposit $1,000 USD into bank checking account:
Bank: debit assets $1,000 USD and credit liabilities $1,000 USD
Indi: credit assets $1,000 USD and debit liabilites $1,000 USD

loan $1,500 USD from bank to individual
Bank: credit assets $1,500 USD and debit liabilities $1,500 USD
Indi: debit assets $1,500 USD and credit liabilities $1,500 USD

The two perspectives are complementary.

To state catagorically that:

An asset of $1000 is a _debit_ of $1000.

or

A debt of $1000 is a _credit_ to the liability account.

or

Nope. It is a _credit_ to checking, to reduce its _debit_ balance, and
a _debit_ to Accounts Payable, to reduce its _credit_ balance.

The fact that you have this backwards _probably_ results from looking at

bank statements that have "debit memos" and "credit memos," and thinking

that the bank is taking _your_ perspective when it describes them as
such.
Which is _not_ the case. A "debit memo," which tends to involve taking
money into your account, is a debit from _THEIR_ per

QIF Import patch + new search feature

[Bill Gribble]

I just sent a patch to gnucash-patches, but I'm not sure how quickly
it will make it to CVS with Dave gone.

I think I have fixed the QIF importer to correctly handle QIF files
with multiple accounts.  Those who were having problems with it, could
you please give it a try and let me know how it works?

I added a "Find" feature, sort of patterned after gtkfind and Sherlock
and all those, to allow you to search for and display an arbitrary set
of your transactions in an account-independent register.  Please give
it a try; especially I'd like to hear how reasonable/comprehensible
the multi-search narrowing feaatures are.  (To narrow a search, click
the "Find" button in the Search Results register of the search you
wish to refine).

I know the Search Results register display isn't perfect (it shows
some transactions twice) but it's almost there; other than things like
showing transactions twice, what's right or wrong with this display?
It's a little weird to be able to get stock transactions and bank
transactions showing up in the same window; is there a better way to
display things to distinguish stock xtns from bank xtns?

Thanks,
Bill Gribble




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QIF Import from ZKA4BTX

[Reinhold Schoeb]

As a new user of gnucash I found a problem with the QIF import
function.

I am using ZKA4BTX, a Linux software to receive account datas and
send transactions over the German Datex-J (BTX) homebanking system.
ZKA4BTX is able to write these informations into CBB-, Xfinans and
QIF-files.

Here is a short QIF file produced by ZKA4BTX :

!Type:Bank
D23.05.98 
T0.0 
N515 
MStartSaldoCredit:980523:07401,68:DEM 
P
L 
C 
^ 
D25.05.98 
T-00500.00 
N516 
M:60391310 0060 10 41 KARTE 2 SB-AUTOMAT 25.05 NEBRINGEN:SB-AUSZAHL9320:: 
P
L 
C 
^ 

As you see the transaction memo is in the M field (As mentioned in the
gnucash help). The P field is empty.

When I try to import this file, the transaction memo is not imported to
the description field in gnucash. But when I exchange the P and M field
as in the example below, the transaction memo is now correct imported
to gnucash :

!Type:Bank
D23.05.98 
T0.0 
N515 
PStartSaldoCredit:980523:07401,68:DEM 
M
L 
C 
^ 
D25.05.98 
T-00500.00 
N516 
P:60391310 0060 10 41 KARTE 2 SB-AUTOMAT 25.05 NEBRINGEN:SB-AUSZAHL9320:: 
M
L 
C 
^ 

Does anyone have an idea about this.

Reinhold


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Re: QIF Import from ZKA4BTX

[Bill Gribble]

Reinhold Schoeb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> When I try to import this file, the transaction memo is not imported to
> the description field in gnucash. But when I exchange the P and M field
> as in the example below, the transaction memo is now correct imported
> to gnucash :

The Description field in GnuCash is generally used for payee
information, and the Memo field for memos.  The QIF importer is
assigning the Quicken memo to a GnuCash memo, sensibly enough, and the
Quicken Payee to the GnuCash Description.

Your memo will always be displayed for imported transactions if you
select the "Double Line", "Multi Line", or "Auto Double" display modes
(under the Register/Style menu in the account register display).

In "Single Line" mode, the memo is not displayed.  If you select the
"Auto Single" mode, the memo will only be displayed for the selected
transaction.

Bill Gribble


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Re: Reversed-balance accounts

[John Hasler]

Tboldt writes:
> According to Webster's Ninth New Collegiate Dictionary. (Hopefully by the
> ninth they got it right).

I'm quite certain that Niswonger and Fess had it right by the tenth edition
of _Accounting Principles_, which happens to be right here on my desk.

> Deposit $1,000 USD into bank checking account:
> Bank: debit assets $1,000 USD and credit liabilities $1,000 USD

Yes.  They gained $1,000 in cash and so increased their assets, but they
also incurred a debt of $1,000 and so increased their liabilities.

> Indi: credit assets $1,000 USD and debit liabilites $1,000 USD

No.  Credit Assets:Cash $1,000 and debit Assets:Bank Deposits $1,000.
One assets was exchanged for another.

> loan $1,500 USD from bank to individual
> Bank: credit assets $1,500 USD and debit liabilities $1,500 USD

No.  Credit Assets:Cash $1,500 and debit Assets:Loans $1,500.
One asset was exchanged for another.

> Indi: debit assets $1,500 USD and credit liabilities $1,500 USD

Yes.  Indi gained $1,500 in cash and so increased his assets, but also 
incurred a debt of $1,500 and so increased his liabilities.
-- 
John Hasler
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, Wisconsin

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Re: Getting quotes several times a day

[Ken Schar]

Hi all,

Personally, on some (many) days I check the prices more than once and I
would certainly agree that it would best for the program to take the
latest update for any given day.

FWIW,
  Ken

On 17 Apr, Paul Fenwick wrote:
> G'day Hubert,
> 
> On Mon, Apr 17, 2000 at 01:50:06PM +0200, Hubert Figuiere wrote:
> 
>> I am having trouble getting stock quotes several times a day and having them
>> updated. It looks like they don't get updated if the stock has already a
>> price for the day. This cause me trouble since the stock price evolve al
>> along the day :-)
> 
> That's correct.  gnc-prices will only update a stock if it doesn't
> already have a price for the day.  This is documented (in the English
> help for the stock-ticker at least).  I'm not sure why this behaviour
> exists -- it certainly shouldn't be difficult to change.  Anyone else
> have opinions?
> 
> Cheers,
> 
>   Paul



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