Re: [GNC] GnuCash 4.4 Announcement/GnuCash 4.3 Announcement

[D. via gnucash-user]

Frank, 

I didn't receive either boilerplate announcement in my inboxes, either-- a 
point that John acknowledged directly. Something clearly went awry with the 
mail in these cases. 


 Original Message 
From: "Frank H. Ellenberger" 
Sent: Mon Dec 28 21:04:06 EST 2020
To: py...@cox.net, 'John Ralls' , 'GnuCash-User' 

Subject: Re: [GNC] GnuCash 4.4 Announcement/GnuCash 4.3 Announcement

Hello Ken,

Am 29.12.20 um 02:54 schrieb py...@cox.net:
> John - Thank you for the announcement - FYI -  Received this e-mail - but
> did not receive the regular nor the 4.3 announcement.  
> 
> Ken 

it is here:
https://lists.gnucash.org/pipermail/gnucash-announce/2020-December/000333.html

All in reverse chronological order:
https://www.gnucash.org/news.phtml


~Frank
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Re: [GNC] GnuCash 4.4 Announcement

[pyz01]

Yes -- this is normal.  Click through the false positive messages and say
that you wish to download anyway.  

Ken 

-Original Message-
From: gnucash-user  On
Behalf Of dull...@gmail.com
Sent: Monday, December 28, 2020 7:19 PM
To: 'John Ralls' ; 'GnuCash-User'

Subject: Re: [GNC] GnuCash 4.4 Announcement

Hi,

Microsoft Edge (smart screen) blocks the gnucash-4.4.setup.exe file from
this site 

https://github.com/Gnucash/gnucash/releases

Is that normal?


-Original Message-
From: gnucash-user  On
Behalf Of John Ralls
Sent: Tuesday, 29 December 2020 11:53 AM
To: GnuCash-User 
Subject: [GNC] GnuCash 4.4 Announcement

We did a snap release of GnuCash 4.4 in order to fix
https://bugs.gnucash.org/show_bug.cgi?id=798063. The regular announcement
email went out but like yesterday's announcement of 4.3 it seems to have
disappeared into the ether.

I'm trying this simpler notice to see if it gets through. Details of the
release can be found at https://www.gnucash.org/news.phtml or
https://github.com/Gnucash/gnucash/releases/.

Regards,
John Ralls

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Re: [GNC] GnuCash 4.4 Announcement

[dullege]

Hi,

Microsoft Edge (smart screen) blocks the gnucash-4.4.setup.exe file from
this site 

https://github.com/Gnucash/gnucash/releases

Is that normal?


-Original Message-
From: gnucash-user  On
Behalf Of John Ralls
Sent: Tuesday, 29 December 2020 11:53 AM
To: GnuCash-User 
Subject: [GNC] GnuCash 4.4 Announcement

We did a snap release of GnuCash 4.4 in order to fix
https://bugs.gnucash.org/show_bug.cgi?id=798063. The regular announcement
email went out but like yesterday's announcement of 4.3 it seems to have
disappeared into the ether.

I'm trying this simpler notice to see if it gets through. Details of the
release can be found at https://www.gnucash.org/news.phtml or
https://github.com/Gnucash/gnucash/releases/.

Regards,
John Ralls

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Re: [GNC] {GNC} How secure is Gnu-Cash? Good enough for a credit union?

[Adrien Monteleone]

While Rich, Dave & Michael have given you great responses, I'll offer my 
own condensed version:


'Accounting' is not about 'counting' (the math), but rather about 
control - "Who controls access to what, and how they are held 
'accountable' for that privilege."


Study methods of literal 'cash' control, and then consider methods and 
means to apply those principles to any non-cash (physical) accounting 
you require. You'll find that those basic principles apply nearly 
universally. 'Control' (in some cases synonymous with 'access') and 
managing it, is key. The application (use case, not computer app) isn't 
relevant to the basic question, but is relevant to the details and 
complexity of the implementation.


For example, proper cash handling/accounting and access/control 
procedures can catch someone stealing a physical $100 bill, not just the 
fact they pilfered $100 total. (I've caught such a case, because those 
procedures were in place.) No software can do this for you. This is 
entirely dependent on procedure and procedure discipline.


Regards,
Adrien

On 12/28/20 6:01 PM, Edward Bainton wrote:

Can anyone give a view on whether Gnucash is suitable for a very small
credit union?

How would easily can fraud be detected?

If not easily, could it be paired with, say, some kind of blockchain backup
system so as to make fraud detectable?


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Re: [GNC] GnuCash 4.4 Announcement/GnuCash 4.3 Announcement

[Frank H. Ellenberger]

Hello Ken,

Am 29.12.20 um 02:54 schrieb py...@cox.net:
> John - Thank you for the announcement - FYI -  Received this e-mail - but
> did not receive the regular nor the 4.3 announcement.  
> 
> Ken 

it is here:
https://lists.gnucash.org/pipermail/gnucash-announce/2020-December/000333.html

All in reverse chronological order:
https://www.gnucash.org/news.phtml


~Frank
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Re: [GNC] GnuCash 4.4 Announcement

[pyz01]

John - Thank you for the announcement - FYI -  Received this e-mail - but
did not receive the regular nor the 4.3 announcement.  

Ken 

-Original Message-
From: gnucash-user  On
Behalf Of John Ralls
Sent: Monday, December 28, 2020 4:53 PM
To: GnuCash-User 
Subject: [GNC] GnuCash 4.4 Announcement

We did a snap release of GnuCash 4.4 in order to fix
https://bugs.gnucash.org/show_bug.cgi?id=798063. The regular announcement
email went out but like yesterday's announcement of 4.3 it seems to have
disappeared into the ether.

I'm trying this simpler notice to see if it gets through. Details of the
release can be found at https://www.gnucash.org/news.phtml or
https://github.com/Gnucash/gnucash/releases/.

Regards,
John Ralls

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Re: [GNC] {GNC} How secure is Gnu-Cash? Good enough for a credit union?

[Michael or Penny Novack]

On 12/28/2020 7:01 PM, Edward Bainton wrote:

Can anyone give a view on whether Gnucash is suitable for a very small
credit union?

How would easily can fraud be detected?

If not easily, could it be paired with, say, some kind of blockchain backup
system so as to make fraud detectable?

Thanks,

Edward


Fraud detection is a matter of more than one trusted person in control 
of the books. When you say "blockchain backup" you are addressing a 
different problem, whether alteration is possible. Note that there are 
other ways of preventing alteration. For example read only copies being 
given into the custody of other officers of the credit union.


What you should perhaps do is imagine that it was 100 years ago and the 
books were kept the old fashioned way, pen and ink on paper. What are 
the fraud risks and what measures would be needed to prevent or detect 
fraud? Detect is really the key as you can't prevent fraud, only deter 
it because it would be detected. AUDITING is necessary (do the books 
reflect the real world -- spot checking that "the paper" matches what 
has been entered.


Understand? Preventing alteration does not prevent fraud. The fraud 
might be because something was NOT entered.


Michael D Novack

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Re: [GNC] {GNC} How secure is Gnu-Cash? Good enough for a credit union?

[David Cousens]

Edward,

Fraud detection is more a function of overall accounting practice rather
than the accounting software per se although the software implementation can
be designed to support it. Reconciliations  and procedures around the
raising of invoices and paying of bills are often the prime defences.
Control of access to money and strict procedures for recording and handling
cash where each individual's actions can be checked separately are usually
essential. 

GnuCash is really not setup for implementation of the primary controls where
particular functionality is usually handled by separate individuals who only
have access to the specific functionality they use and no access to the rest
of the accounting system with only a financial controller having system wide
access. GnuCash is also not simultaneously accessible by multiple users
without the risk of conflict and loss of data. In a credit union situation
it is likely you would want immediate entry of cash transactions into the
system which might be problematical if you have more than one cashier or
site.

David Cousens



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[GNC] GnuCash 4.4 Announcement

[John Ralls]

We did a snap release of GnuCash 4.4 in order to fix 
https://bugs.gnucash.org/show_bug.cgi?id=798063. The regular announcement email 
went out but like yesterday's announcement of 4.3 it seems to have disappeared 
into the ether.

I'm trying this simpler notice to see if it gets through. Details of the 
release can be found at https://www.gnucash.org/news.phtml or 
https://github.com/Gnucash/gnucash/releases/.

Regards,
John Ralls

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Re: [GNC] gnucash-user Digest, Vol 213, Issue 45

[Stan Brown]

On 2020-12-28 13:21, Eric H. Bowen via gnucash-user wrote:
> ... What I'm
> asking help for is HOW TO MAKE GNUCASH DO THIS if it isn't a simple
> line-item purchase, such as the two examples of an out-of-state purchase
> with sales tax paid later in a quarterly filing 

Assuming your amounts are $100.00 price of goods and $8.25 tax ...

When you take delivery:
Debit:  Expenses:Office Supplies $108.25
Credit: Liabilities:Sales Tax $8.25
Credit: Assets:Bank Account(*) $100.00

When you pay your sales tax:
Debit:  Liabilities:Sales Tax $8.25
Credit: Bank Account $8.25

(*) If you don't pay right away, credit Liabilities:A/P:Vendor Name
instead of Bank Account, then when you do pay debit
Liabilities:A/P:Vendor Name and credit Back Account by $100.00.

> or a vendor bill
> including taxable items which will later be covered by a processed payment.

When you take delivery:
Debit:  Expenses:Office Supplies $108.25
Credit: Liabilities:A/P:Vendor Name $108.25

When you pay the bill:
Debit:  Liabilities:A/P:Vendor Name $108.25
Credit: Assets:Bank Account $108.25

> Am I still being unclear?Eric.

Possibly. The answer to your question, as I understand your question,
seems so straightforward that I'm afraid I didn't understand it.

-- 
Stan Brown
Tehachapi, CA, USA
https://BrownMath.com
https://OakRoadSystems.com
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Re: [GNC] {GNC} How secure is Gnu-Cash? Good enough for a credit union?

[Rich Shepard]

On Tue, 29 Dec 2020, Edward Bainton wrote:


Can anyone give a view on whether Gnucash is suitable for a very small
credit union?


Edward,


From my perspective as a long time user and follower of tech security news I

suggest your concern should focus on users, not the software.

Bad actors prefer to use social engineering (e.g., phishing emails,
deceptive web sites) because it's so much easier and doesn't leave signs in
networks or individual hosts.

Whether it's suitable for your credit union should be based on the use cases 
needs
for any bookkeeping software.

My $0.25 (inflation adjusted),

Rich

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[GNC] {GNC} How secure is Gnu-Cash? Good enough for a credit union?

[Edward Bainton]

Can anyone give a view on whether Gnucash is suitable for a very small
credit union?

How would easily can fraud be detected?

If not easily, could it be paired with, say, some kind of blockchain backup
system so as to make fraud detectable?

Thanks,

Edward
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Re: [GNC] gnucash-user Digest, Vol 213, Issue 45

[David Cousens]

Eric,

It is a little unclear from your description but I assume the situation with
the sales tax is that if it is on or on a component of   goods sold as part
of your business then it is passed on to your customer if the vendor has
charged it and you add an additional component where you have added value to
the item sold whereas if it is on goods for your own consumption you have to
show that the tax has been paid if your vendor has charged you the tax on
the goods he sold to you and if you have not been charged for any sales tax,
you become liable to pay the tax. The treatment will depend a lot on the
details of the specific legislation applying. If your accountant is not
giving you any specific guidance in how to do this I would be looking for
another accountant - this is what you are paying him for  (a similar
situation is also the reason I ended up with a masters degree in
accounting).

In accounting this sort of situation is handled by what are commonly known
as contra accounts. for example you will have a liability account
Liability:Sales Taxes which you will credit in the case where you have to
charge and later pay tax to the state. In the situation where sales taxes
you have paid can be offset against the tax you owe the state you would set
up an account structure something like the following where the colon
indicates a sub account. 

Liability: Sales Taxes
Liability: Sales Taxes: Due on Sales
Liability: Sales Taxes: Paid on Purchases
Liability: Sales Taxes: Paid to State

The Liability: Sales Taxes would be a placeholder account and the other
three sub accounts sum into it. It is likely you will need to setup similar
separate structures for both your goods which are purchased for sale and for
goods which are consumed by your business which you would pass on as an
overhead cost to your cost of goods sold.

When you purchase something and the tax component of the purchase is
offsettable against your tax owed you would debit the tax amount to
Liability: Sales Taxes: Paid on Purchases. When you sell something and have
to charge sales tax or when you are liable for the tax on a purchase you
would create a credit entry in Liability: Sales Taxes: Due on Sales. When
you pay the state the taxes you owe you create a debit entry to Liability:
Sales Taxes: Paid to State balanced by a credit entry to your bank account.

Entries for your out of state purchase for $100 not including tax on which
you have to pay tax would be for example
Debit   
   
Credit
Expenses: Office Supplies 108.25
Liability: Sales Taxes: Due on Sales
8.25
Assets:Bank account
100.00

In a situation where a similar purchase includes sales tax which you are
entitled to offset against the tax you owe you would for example record it
as
Debit   
   
Credit
Expenses:Office Supplies   100.00
Liability: Sales Taxes: Paid on Purchases  8.25
Assets:Bank account 
108.25

A sales entry for goods sold from your business where you have charged tax
might look like
Debit   
   
Credit
Assets:Bank account  108.25
Revenue: Sales 
100.00
Liability: Sales Taxes: Due on Sales 
8.25

When you pay your taxes  to the state they would be recorded as
Debit   
   
Credit
Liability: Sales Taxes: Paid to Statexxx.xx
Assets:Bank account  
xxx.xx

The Liability: Sales Taxes balance will always tell you what you owe the
state. The transactions in the sub-accounts between filing dates  should
basically give you what you need in filing returns although they may need
additional structuring to meet the specific needs of your jurisdiction.

The cost accounting for COGS and applicable taxes is a lot more complex but
works on similar principles.

The above should not be construed as accounting advice and is purely
illustrative of a general approach which may prove useful for you. I am not
in the US and I am not familiar with US tax laws or those pertaining to your
situation and the above general approach may require considerable
modification to meet those requirements.

David Cousens



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Re: [GNC] gnucash-user Digest, Vol 213, Issue 45

[Eric H. Bowen via gnucash-user]

:headdesk: :headdesk: :headdesk:

I already know what the accountant will say; as per IRS regulations the
taxes should be included in the cost to me of the goods (assuming that
they're for business consumption/use and not for resale). What I'm
asking help for is HOW TO MAKE GNUCASH DO THIS if it isn't a simple
line-item purchase, such as the two examples of an out-of-state purchase
with sales tax paid later in a quarterly filing or a vendor bill
including taxable items which will later be covered by a processed payment.

Am I still being unclear?Eric.

On 12/27/20 11:00 AM, gnucash-user-requ...@gnucash.org wrote:
> Message: 6
> Date: Sun, 27 Dec 2020 10:14:31 -0600
> From: Les 
> To: gnucash-user@gnucash.org
> Subject: Re: [GNC] Sales Taxes...
> Message-ID: 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>
> I suggest you involve your accountant on this subject.
>
> On 12/27/20 9:41 AM, Eric H. Bowen via gnucash-user wrote:
>> See, they /shouldn't /be (accounted separately), but in case 2 (taxes 
>> paid separately to state at end of quarter) and case 3 (entered as a 
>> vendor bill) there doesn't appear to be a simple way to redirect the 
>> taxes to the cost of supplies. Unless I'm missing it. 
>> Suggestions?Eric.
>>
>> On 12/27/2020 6:45 AM, Greg Feneis wrote:
>>> All of these examples appear to be supplies for the business to use 
>>> (vs items purchased for selling). Why would the cost of the taxes 
>>> paid need to be account for separately from the cost of the items?
>>>
>>> Kind regards, Greg Feneis
>>> (Pixel 3)
>>>
>>> On Sat, Dec 26, 2020, 16:52 Eric H. Bowen via gnucash-user 
>>> mailto:gnucash-user@gnucash.org>> wrote:
>>>
>>> ??? Okay. With year-end coming up I'm not looking to make major 
>>> changes in
>>> ??? the past, but I'd like to account for everything properly in the
>>> ??? future.
>>>
>>> ??? Say I purchase $100 in printing supplies (paper, ink, etc.) from a
>>> ??? local
>>> ??? vendor. The IRS wants me to account for taxes in the value of items
>>> ??? purchased. So I add an entry for $108.25 (8.25% local tax), and
>>> ??? the full
>>> ??? value goes into my "Expenses:Business Expenses:Office Supplies"
>>> ??? account.
>>> ??? Fine.
>>>
>>> ??? Now, suppose I purchase that $100 in supplies from an out-of-state
>>> ??? vendor who falls under the threshold for reporting sales taxes to
>>> ??? Texas
>>> ??? (rhyming couplet there?) and so does not charge me sales tax on the
>>> ??? purchase. The law says that I have to pay a sales/use tax on the
>>> ??? purchase anyhow. Fine, I have a liability account set up for "Sales
>>> ??? Taxes Payable" which I normally use for the sales I make to 
>>> customers;
>>> ??? once a quarter I total this up and send a check in to the 
>>> comptroller.
>>> ??? No problem at all to do so with my online purchase, but the $8.25
>>> ??? which
>>> ??? I pay at the end of the quarter doesn't get added to my Office
>>> ??? Supplies
>>> ??? purchase, as it should.
>>>
>>> ??? Finally, suppose I purchase the supplies from a local vendor, who
>>> ??? charges tax, but who grants me a "Net 30" for payment and so it goes
>>> ??? into my Accounts Payable as a bill. If I use the "Sales Tax Payable"
>>> ??? account/tax table for the purchase, my payment for the purchase
>>> ??? goes in
>>> ??? as a payment on the liability, which is wrong. I can use a separate
>>> ??? sales tax table tied to a different account for purchases, in
>>> ??? which case
>>> ??? it will be recorded as "Expenses:Business Expenses:Business
>>> ??? Taxes:Sales
>>> ??? Tax Paid", but ideally the $8.25 should have been added to the
>>> ??? value of
>>> ??? the purchase in "Office Supplies."
>>>
>>> ??? Is there a quick and elegant solution to this issue which I'm
>>> ??? overlooking, but that I could implement for next year?
>>>
>>> ??? --
>>> ??? Eric H. Bowen
>>> ??? e...@ehbowen.net 
>>> ??? >
>>> ??? ___
>>> ??? gnucash-user mailing list
>>> ??? gnucash-user@gnucash.org 
>>> ??? To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
>>> ??? https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
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