Re: [GNC] Reconciliation Changes

[David Carlson]

For completeness I should have mentioned that for accounts which have
sub-accounts like those that envelope budgeters will probably have, the
user should view the account in a 'with sub-accounts view' to see
everything that is happening in the 'with sub-acconts' reconciliation
window.

On Fri, Oct 15, 2021 at 12:57 AM David Carlson 
wrote:

> No, Chris.  In release 3.8 and earlier when the user first clicks on the
> Reconcile icon and the pop-up appears to set the date, balance, etc., then
> clicks OK, the Reconcile window opens with every transaction that is dated
> before the reconciliation date and marked "c" in the Reconcile box is
> automatically checked to be reconciled.  Thus the user normally will only
> need to check or uncheck any transactions that do not match the bank
> statement.  If the user was importing transactions so they were marked "c"
> when they were imported or marking existing transactions "c" if they think
> they saw them in their smartphone banking app, those transactions are
> already applied to the target balance calculation and do not need to be
> manually checked.for reconciliation. That is how it worked in release 3.8
> and earlier.
>
> There is another thread that apparently indicates that in the current
> release if some transactions were manually marked as reconciled and the
> user chooses Postpone, when he returns he will find his previous markings
> lost.  In release 3.8 those manually marked transactions will still be
> marked when returning to the reconciliation.  It appears that the code was
> not reverted exactly to the way it was in release 3.8.
>
> On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 at 10:45 PM Chris Good  wrote:
>
>> Hi David (Carlson),
>>
>>
>>
>> Not sure what you mean by “automatic marking that happens when the
>> reconciliation process is initiated”?
>>
>> Perhaps you mean the marking of transactions as cleared when they are
>> imported?
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Chris Good
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* David Carlson 
>> *Sent:* Friday, 15 October 2021 3:00 AM
>> *To:* Derek Atkins 
>> *Cc:* D. ; Steve Welch via gnucash-user <
>> gnucash-user@gnucash.org>; Chris Good 
>> *Subject:* Re: [GNC] Reconciliation Changes
>>
>>
>>
>> I wonder if there is some confusion here between manually marking (or
>> un-marking) account and sub-account transactions as reconciled (or not) vs
>> the automatic marking that happens when the reconciliation process is
>> initiated.  The purpose of the pause before committing the reconciliation
>> is to allow the user to uncheck the items that have not cleared to bring
>> the cleared balance to match the outside bank statement or the user's
>> desired result.  I hope that GnuCash still pre-marks all un-reconciled
>> account transactions (and sub-account transactions if they exist and the
>> appropriate box is checked) dated before the reconciliation date when the
>> reconciliation is started, as manually marking possibly hundreds of
>> transactions at the beginning of the process would definitely be a pain. I
>> do agree that each sub-account transaction line should be separately
>> manually changeable.
>>
>>
>>
>> Because I am still running release 3.8 I cannot observe for myself how it
>> works now, but release 3.8 does at least pre-mark all un-reconciled account
>> transactions before the reconciliation date.  I do not have sub-accounts in
>> my data.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 at 6:53 AM Derek Atkins  wrote:
>>
>> Chris, Lisa,
>>
>> Yes, I agree with David here.  It is absolutely quite common (and for
>> DECADES has been the suggested way to do "envelope budgeting" in GnuCash)
>> -- to have subaccounts of your Bank (or other Asset) account for your
>> budget items.
>>
>> I realize that I did instigate your change in PR-713, however to reiterate
>> my original message, "I do not agree with this change AND think it will
>> introduce another bug" (emphasis added here).  I still think the original
>> change you made in PR-670 was wrong.  But regardless, here we are now.
>>
>> In your particular case in bug #797648 I (still) don't understand why this
>> is a single transaction.  If you are using two payment methods to two
>> expense accounts, that to me is two transactions.  They could be processed
>> at different times, post at different times, and they are absolutely for
>> different items.  I don't even know how you can place such an order (well,
>> except, I guess, if you're at a restaurant and order separate checks --
>> but even in that case I don't see why you need to enter it as a single
>> transaction).
>>
>> The use-case of envelope budgeting is definitely more common than your use
>> case, so we should definitely support that.  Perhaps I can propose some
>> additional logic:
>>
>> If *ALL* the splits in a transaction are within the Reconciliation account
>> (sub)tree, then when you click on one, it should be as if you click on all
>> of them.  That would help Lisa's use-case of moving money from one
>> envelope into another, or from the main a

Re: [GNC] Reconciliation Changes

[David Carlson]

No, Chris.  In release 3.8 and earlier when the user first clicks on the
Reconcile icon and the pop-up appears to set the date, balance, etc., then
clicks OK, the Reconcile window opens with every transaction that is dated
before the reconciliation date and marked "c" in the Reconcile box is
automatically checked to be reconciled.  Thus the user normally will only
need to check or uncheck any transactions that do not match the bank
statement.  If the user was importing transactions so they were marked "c"
when they were imported or marking existing transactions "c" if they think
they saw them in their smartphone banking app, those transactions are
already applied to the target balance calculation and do not need to be
manually checked.for reconciliation. That is how it worked in release 3.8
and earlier.

There is another thread that apparently indicates that in the current
release if some transactions were manually marked as reconciled and the
user chooses Postpone, when he returns he will find his previous markings
lost.  In release 3.8 those manually marked transactions will still be
marked when returning to the reconciliation.  It appears that the code was
not reverted exactly to the way it was in release 3.8.

On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 at 10:45 PM Chris Good  wrote:

> Hi David (Carlson),
>
>
>
> Not sure what you mean by “automatic marking that happens when the
> reconciliation process is initiated”?
>
> Perhaps you mean the marking of transactions as cleared when they are
> imported?
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Chris Good
>
>
>
> *From:* David Carlson 
> *Sent:* Friday, 15 October 2021 3:00 AM
> *To:* Derek Atkins 
> *Cc:* D. ; Steve Welch via gnucash-user <
> gnucash-user@gnucash.org>; Chris Good 
> *Subject:* Re: [GNC] Reconciliation Changes
>
>
>
> I wonder if there is some confusion here between manually marking (or
> un-marking) account and sub-account transactions as reconciled (or not) vs
> the automatic marking that happens when the reconciliation process is
> initiated.  The purpose of the pause before committing the reconciliation
> is to allow the user to uncheck the items that have not cleared to bring
> the cleared balance to match the outside bank statement or the user's
> desired result.  I hope that GnuCash still pre-marks all un-reconciled
> account transactions (and sub-account transactions if they exist and the
> appropriate box is checked) dated before the reconciliation date when the
> reconciliation is started, as manually marking possibly hundreds of
> transactions at the beginning of the process would definitely be a pain. I
> do agree that each sub-account transaction line should be separately
> manually changeable.
>
>
>
> Because I am still running release 3.8 I cannot observe for myself how it
> works now, but release 3.8 does at least pre-mark all un-reconciled account
> transactions before the reconciliation date.  I do not have sub-accounts in
> my data.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 at 6:53 AM Derek Atkins  wrote:
>
> Chris, Lisa,
>
> Yes, I agree with David here.  It is absolutely quite common (and for
> DECADES has been the suggested way to do "envelope budgeting" in GnuCash)
> -- to have subaccounts of your Bank (or other Asset) account for your
> budget items.
>
> I realize that I did instigate your change in PR-713, however to reiterate
> my original message, "I do not agree with this change AND think it will
> introduce another bug" (emphasis added here).  I still think the original
> change you made in PR-670 was wrong.  But regardless, here we are now.
>
> In your particular case in bug #797648 I (still) don't understand why this
> is a single transaction.  If you are using two payment methods to two
> expense accounts, that to me is two transactions.  They could be processed
> at different times, post at different times, and they are absolutely for
> different items.  I don't even know how you can place such an order (well,
> except, I guess, if you're at a restaurant and order separate checks --
> but even in that case I don't see why you need to enter it as a single
> transaction).
>
> The use-case of envelope budgeting is definitely more common than your use
> case, so we should definitely support that.  Perhaps I can propose some
> additional logic:
>
> If *ALL* the splits in a transaction are within the Reconciliation account
> (sub)tree, then when you click on one, it should be as if you click on all
> of them.  That would help Lisa's use-case of moving money from one
> envelope into another, or from the main account into an envelope.
>
> However, this (new?) logic will not help in the case of a purchase where
> you're buying things from different envelope budgets in a single
> transaction (e.g. you're buying toothpaste and gas in the same
> transaction).  I'm not sure how to get this and Chris' desire (and my
> desire) together, because I feel they are all mutually exclusive
> processes.
>
> I will just point out that in the reconcile window, all the splits of the
>

Re: [GNC] Reconciliation Changes

[Lisa Reynoso]

Derek gets what I'm doing. I do use GNU Cash sub accounts as an envelope
budgeting system (I really latched onto it after we lost $500 worth of
money in envelopes to a thief--back when $500 was my monthly expenses
budget!!!). And yes, that "bug" is exactly what I want back. When I'm
reconciling, transactions that don't show up on my bank statement need to
be marked first to avoid confusion, and marking transfers within the
checking from one sub account to another without having to mark them both
individually would be so nice! Also, when I make a purchase at a store that
uses money from more than one sub account (say, groceries and clothing at a
department store), this is how it used to mark them (I've simplified the
asset account for, well, simplicity):

Expense: Clothing: n
Expense: Groceries: n
Asset: Checking: Clothing: c
Asset: Checking: Groceries: c

Checking either the clothing amount or the grocery amount would check both
of them. And it SHOULD be that way, a $50 charge to Fred Meyer, for
example, cannot be half reconciled; if $25 is clothes and $25 is groceries,
the whole thing must be reconciled together as one transaction. That was
the right way. It was not a bug. It never marked the expense account as
cleared, that I ever noticed. Only the asset account that I was
reconciling. Now it's tedious when I deposit my husband's check, and divide
it into a dozen sub accounts, I can't just check one of them and have it
mark them all; I have to check each of those dozen or so sub-transactions
individually.

Or for transferring from one sub account to another within the same parent
account (say I had extra gas money at the end of the month, but the A/C ran
the utilities up higher than usual):

Asset: Checking: Gas: (debit) c
Asset: Checking: Utilities: (credit) c

Although one is a credit and one a debit, both should mark when one is
checked, because both are part of the same account, and will not show up on
a bank statement.

So it wasn't a bug, and I can't believe anyone would think it was. It has
made reconciling harder for those who use GNU cash for virtual envelope
budgeting and also reconcile their account with their bank statement.

So if I can go back to 3.8, I can get this functionality back? I've never
had any trouble with any of the versions for anything that I do (I'm sure
there are features that I don't use that had bugs). I agreed with David
that a feature to allow splits to be reconciled together as long as they
are within the same parent account would be a very nice option!

Lisa

On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 at 8:47 PM Chris Good  wrote:

> Hi David (Carlson),
>
>
>
> Not sure what you mean by “automatic marking that happens when the
> reconciliation process is initiated”?
>
> Perhaps you mean the marking of transactions as cleared when they are
> imported?
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Chris Good
>
>
>
> From: David Carlson 
> Sent: Friday, 15 October 2021 3:00 AM
> To: Derek Atkins 
> Cc: D. ; Steve Welch via gnucash-user <
> gnucash-user@gnucash.org>; Chris Good 
> Subject: Re: [GNC] Reconciliation Changes
>
>
>
> I wonder if there is some confusion here between manually marking (or
> un-marking) account and sub-account transactions as reconciled (or not) vs
> the automatic marking that happens when the reconciliation process is
> initiated.  The purpose of the pause before committing the reconciliation
> is to allow the user to uncheck the items that have not cleared to bring
> the cleared balance to match the outside bank statement or the user's
> desired result.  I hope that GnuCash still pre-marks all un-reconciled
> account transactions (and sub-account transactions if they exist and the
> appropriate box is checked) dated before the reconciliation date when the
> reconciliation is started, as manually marking possibly hundreds of
> transactions at the beginning of the process would definitely be a pain. I
> do agree that each sub-account transaction line should be separately
> manually changeable.
>
>
>
> Because I am still running release 3.8 I cannot observe for myself how it
> works now, but release 3.8 does at least pre-mark all un-reconciled account
> transactions before the reconciliation date.  I do not have sub-accounts in
> my data.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 at 6:53 AM Derek Atkins  de...@ihtfp.com> > wrote:
>
> Chris, Lisa,
>
> Yes, I agree with David here.  It is absolutely quite common (and for
> DECADES has been the suggested way to do "envelope budgeting" in GnuCash)
> -- to have subaccounts of your Bank (or other Asset) account for your
> budget items.
>
> I realize that I did instigate your change in PR-713, however to reiterate
> my original message, "I do not agree with this change AND think it will
> introduce another bug" (emphasis added here).  I still think the original
> change you made in PR-670 was wrong.  But regardless, here we are now.
>
> In your particular case in bug #797648 I (still) don't understand why this
> is a single transaction.  If you are using two payme

Re: [GNC] Reconciliation Changes

[Chris Good]

Hi David (Carlson),

 

Not sure what you mean by “automatic marking that happens when the 
reconciliation process is initiated”?

Perhaps you mean the marking of transactions as cleared when they are imported?

 

Regards,

Chris Good

 

From: David Carlson  
Sent: Friday, 15 October 2021 3:00 AM
To: Derek Atkins 
Cc: D. ; Steve Welch via gnucash-user 
; Chris Good 
Subject: Re: [GNC] Reconciliation Changes

 

I wonder if there is some confusion here between manually marking (or 
un-marking) account and sub-account transactions as reconciled (or not) vs the 
automatic marking that happens when the reconciliation process is initiated.  
The purpose of the pause before committing the reconciliation is to allow the 
user to uncheck the items that have not cleared to bring the cleared balance to 
match the outside bank statement or the user's desired result.  I hope that 
GnuCash still pre-marks all un-reconciled account transactions (and sub-account 
transactions if they exist and the appropriate box is checked) dated before the 
reconciliation date when the reconciliation is started, as manually marking 
possibly hundreds of transactions at the beginning of the process would 
definitely be a pain. I do agree that each sub-account transaction line should 
be separately manually changeable. 

 

Because I am still running release 3.8 I cannot observe for myself how it works 
now, but release 3.8 does at least pre-mark all un-reconciled account 
transactions before the reconciliation date.  I do not have sub-accounts in my 
data.

 

On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 at 6:53 AM Derek Atkins mailto:de...@ihtfp.com> > wrote:

Chris, Lisa,

Yes, I agree with David here.  It is absolutely quite common (and for
DECADES has been the suggested way to do "envelope budgeting" in GnuCash)
-- to have subaccounts of your Bank (or other Asset) account for your
budget items.

I realize that I did instigate your change in PR-713, however to reiterate
my original message, "I do not agree with this change AND think it will
introduce another bug" (emphasis added here).  I still think the original
change you made in PR-670 was wrong.  But regardless, here we are now.

In your particular case in bug #797648 I (still) don't understand why this
is a single transaction.  If you are using two payment methods to two
expense accounts, that to me is two transactions.  They could be processed
at different times, post at different times, and they are absolutely for
different items.  I don't even know how you can place such an order (well,
except, I guess, if you're at a restaurant and order separate checks --
but even in that case I don't see why you need to enter it as a single
transaction).

The use-case of envelope budgeting is definitely more common than your use
case, so we should definitely support that.  Perhaps I can propose some
additional logic:

If *ALL* the splits in a transaction are within the Reconciliation account
(sub)tree, then when you click on one, it should be as if you click on all
of them.  That would help Lisa's use-case of moving money from one
envelope into another, or from the main account into an envelope.

However, this (new?) logic will not help in the case of a purchase where
you're buying things from different envelope budgets in a single
transaction (e.g. you're buying toothpaste and gas in the same
transaction).  I'm not sure how to get this and Chris' desire (and my
desire) together, because I feel they are all mutually exclusive
processes.

I will just point out that in the reconcile window, all the splits of the
same transaction will be next to each other, so if you're buying
toothpaste and gas together, the splits for
Assets:Bank:Checking:Toothpaste and Assets:Bank:Checking:Gas will be next
to each other and should be easy enough to check manually (because they
would both be credits in the same transaction).

-derek

On Thu, October 14, 2021 7:26 am, D. via gnucash-user wrote:
> Chris,
>
> I believe she's implementing envelope budgeting
> (https://www.thebalance.com/what-is-envelope-budgeting-1293682) using sub
> accounts. A fair number of users of Gnucash do this, which has been
> discussed on the lists over the years.
>
> David T.
>
>
>  Original Message 
> From: Chris Good mailto:goodchri...@gmail.com> >
> Sent: Thu Oct 14 03:11:57 EDT 2021
> To: gnucash-user@gnucash.org  
> Subject: Re: [GNC] Reconciliation Changes
>
> Hi Lisa,
>
> This change was done under https://bugs.gnucash.org/show_bug.cgi?id=797648
> for reasons explained in the bug.
> The first fix went live in 3.9 which forced all splits in a transaction to
> the new selected reconciled state when one of them was changed, rather
> than
> just toggling the reconciliation status of all the splits for the account
> being reconciled.
> This was deemed incorrect, so a change was made in 3.11 where changing the
> reconciliation status of a split in a transaction had no effect of other
> splits in the transa

Re: [GNC] My begining balance is wrong

[D. via gnucash-user]

Well, I'm glad you've seen the docs on this! 


 Original Message 
From: Billie-Internet 
Sent: Thu Oct 14 16:42:43 EDT 2021
To: "D." 
Cc: Derek Atkins , Gnucash Users 
Subject: Re: [GNC] My begining balance is wrong

David,
These problems started before the save as issue. Before that, all I ever
used was the save button on the menu.
[image: image.png]
I did read the info on file names before asking question so I knew what
file I was looking for .   I did not know about the wiki on backups.  I
will read it as follow up.

FYI to all, reconcile is still not holding checked transactions.


Billie
706-383-9057




On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 at 12:31 PM D.  wrote:

> Derek,  Billie,
>
> I'm going out on a limb here, but I'm going to guess that the various
> problems (unsaved changes, reversion to different points, lost progress,
> etc.) have to do with the attempts to back up the data file using Save As.
> It would be very easy under these circumstances to access the wrong file
> and wonder where the last set of changes had gone.
>
> And to take another point up here, Billie, you didn't ask specifically,
> but I imagine you probably should take a look at the wiki page on backups (
> https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Backup) as well as the FAQ entries about
> file naming (
> https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/FAQ#Basics:_Filenames.2C_Directories.2C_...).
>
>
> David T.
> --
> *From:* Derek Atkins
> *Sent:* Thu Oct 14 09:52:31 EDT 2021
> *To:* Billie-Internet
> *Cc:* Gnucash Users
> *Subject:* Re: [GNC] My begining balance is wrong
>
> Hi,
>
> On Thu, October 14, 2021 9:32 am, Billie-Internet wrote:
>
>>  Good Morning,
>>  I am running
>>  Version: 4.4
>>  Build ID: 4.4+(2020-12-28)
>>   on windows 10.
>
>
> [snip]
>
>>  So today, while reconciling, rather than leave, I jumped back and forth
>>  from the check register that was open in the background to the reconcile
>>  to
>>  enter the few transactions that were on my bank statement but had not been
>>  put in the register.  I had put these transactions in yesterday but they
>>  were gone today.
>>
>
> For what it's worth, this is how I operate.  I have the account register
> open next to the reconcile window and just go back and forth adding new
> transactions instead of exiting the reconcile every time.  Considering
> sometimes I'm adding in 50 transactions, that would be a LOT of exiting
> sometimes!
>
>  After I clicked finish and then clicked the save button on the menu bar, I
>>  did a file> save as and saved what I hope is a complete backup to my
>>  downloads file.  I was trying to achieve a stop/start point at the
>>  completion of the reconcile.  I did this with QB everymonth and I am not
>>  sure why I quit doing it with gnucash when I started using it at the
>>  beginning of this year.
>>  Now, however, since I did the save as, it appears gnu is saving every time
>>  to downloads instead of where I had it set to auto save to which is my
>>  company files.
>>
>
> Yes.  By doing "Save As" you are telling GnuCash "this file is now located
> in this new location with this new name", and it will use that as the
> primary name going forward.  To save as a backup you need to copy the file
> in the background, or, just after you File -> Save As, you should File ->
> Open the original file again.
>
> Note:  If you have been making additional changes you should probably File
> -> Save As back to the original location.
>
>  [image: image.png]
>>  So here are my questions.
>>  Does anyone have any idea why my system reverterted back to a month
>>  previous?
>>
>
> Perhaps you opened a Backup file?  Honestly, don't know.
>
>  Why would my reconcile not be saving the reconcile when I ask to postpone?
>>
>
> Don't know.
>
>  How do I get my files backing up to my "company files" file where I
>>  normally save them?
>>
>
> See above.
>
>  Could having a version of quickbooks open at the same time as gnucash have
>>  caused these issues?  I had quickbooks open to get a report from last year
>>  for the accountant.
>>
>
> Extremely unlikely. I can't see how there would be any interaction between
> them.
>
>  One last question, will I ever become competant with this program?  I used
>>  QB for 25 years and knew how to work with it but the thought of paying
>>  $200
>>  a year for a program you should be able to buy, just killed me so I went
>>  to
>>  gnucash.  I have been using gnucash since Jan 2021 and I am amazed that  I
>>  am still struggling with split transactions not balancing!!  I am just
>>  lamenting.  I know there is no answer to this but time!
>>
>
> Yes, you will become proficient, eventually.  There are certain "tricks"
> that you eventually learn as you use the program.  For example, when
> entering a split transaction you should never hit the [Enter] key until
> you are absolutely done, and you should be sure you have an anchor split
> entered first, so the transaction doesn't disappear from the current view.
>
> Good Luc

Re: [GNC] Reconciliation Changes

[Chris Good]

Hi David T,  Derek & Lisa,

David,

Thanks for pointing out that Lisa is doing "envelope budgeting". I have seen 
various references to that in this email list over the years but as I don't do 
any budgeting, I have not paid much attention to it. I can find no reference to 
that in the GnuCash guide or help manuals, perhaps as it seems to be a common 
method of budgeting, and as GnuCash is so flexible, it is assumed to be 
available and already familiar to accountants.

Derek,

"Forcing all splits of a transaction to have the same reconcile status is 
WRONG."
I agree. That's why my PR 713 https://github.com/Gnucash/gnucash/pull/713 
removes the functionality of automatically doing anything to the reconciliation 
status of other splits in the transaction for the account being reconciled (or 
it's subaccounts) when you change the status of a particular split.

Re my example in https://bugs.gnucash.org/show_bug.cgi?id=797648#c0 :

I end up with a transaction looking like:

Account  Reconciled
---  --
Expenses:Misc:Person1n
Expenses:Misc:Person2n
Liabilities:CrCard:Person1   c
Liabilities:CrCard:Person2   n

Because after importing a single transaction which is payable by both Person1 
and Person2 like:

Account  Reconciled
-----
Expenses:Miscn
Liabilities:CrCard   c

I then split the expenses split into Person1 and Person2 so I can track the 
expenses for each person, and then split the CrCard split into subaccounts for 
each person so then the balance of the person subaccounts in the CrCard at 
month end (after subtracting credit card payments) shows how much each person 
has spent during the month.

Because I also split each savings account split into each person i.e.
Assets:Current Assets:Bank Acct1:Person1
Assets:Current Assets:Bank Acct1:Person2

When I pay the credit card, I do a transfer from 
Assets:Current Assets:Bank Acct1:Person1 to Liabilities:CrCard:Person1
And
Assets:Current Assets:Bank Acct1:Person2 to Liabilities:CrCard:Person2

This way I know how much of the savings account and the credit card is 
attributable to each person at any point in time.

I end up with 1 of the CrCard splits being Cleared and the other Not Reconciled 
because I forget to change the split to Cleared when I create it.

I will note that I am not a control freak (as far as I know) but my wife, after 
a bad experience with a previous partner, wanted me to do this so she could 
track her own share of the savings and credit card accounts.

Possibly there are many more people doing envelope budgeting that what I'm 
doing.
The only way I can think to keep both camps happy is to have a reconciliation 
option say "Change all splits together" so both functionalities are catered for.
I'll look at that if it gets a reasonable level of support... or somebody has a 
better option?

Regards,
Chris Good

-Original Message-
From: Derek Atkins  
Sent: Thursday, 14 October 2021 10:53 PM
To: D. 
Cc: Chris Good ; Steve Welch via gnucash-user 

Subject: Re: [GNC] Reconciliation Changes

Chris, Lisa,

Yes, I agree with David here.  It is absolutely quite common (and for DECADES 
has been the suggested way to do "envelope budgeting" in GnuCash)
-- to have subaccounts of your Bank (or other Asset) account for your budget 
items.

I realize that I did instigate your change in PR-713, however to reiterate my 
original message, "I do not agree with this change AND think it will introduce 
another bug" (emphasis added here).  I still think the original change you made 
in PR-670 was wrong.  But regardless, here we are now.

In your particular case in bug #797648 I (still) don't understand why this is a 
single transaction.  If you are using two payment methods to two expense 
accounts, that to me is two transactions.  They could be processed at different 
times, post at different times, and they are absolutely for different items.  I 
don't even know how you can place such an order (well, except, I guess, if 
you're at a restaurant and order separate checks -- but even in that case I 
don't see why you need to enter it as a single transaction).

The use-case of envelope budgeting is definitely more common than your use 
case, so we should definitely support that.  Perhaps I can propose some 
additional logic:

If *ALL* the splits in a transaction are within the Reconciliation account 
(sub)tree, then when you click on one, it should be as if you click on all of 
them.  That would help Lisa's use-case of moving money from one envelope into 
another, or from the main account into an envelope.

However, this (new?) logic will not help in the case of a purchase where you're 
buying things from different envelope budgets in a single transaction (e.g. 
you're buying toothpaste and gas in the same transaction).  I'm not sure how to 
get this and Chris' desire (and my
desire) together, because I f

Re: [GNC] [GNC-dev] GnuCash 4.8-2 DMG for macOS 12

[David H]

Ta for that John, will install shortly, was working with beta 7 but not
since :-)

Cheers David H


On Fri, 15 Oct 2021 at 7:19 am, John Ralls  wrote:

> The last two beta releases of macOS 12 Monterey changed the behavior of a
> low-level graphics function used by Gtk3 that resulted in application
> windows not being able to display their content. I've fixed the problem and
> made a new GnuCash bundle, GnuCash 4.8-2, SHA256
> 20af888f1d1293a036b595145ad9e5338b3a92f868b6e4fca021d4cc7d9df36b.
>
> You need to use it only if you're using or planning to upgrade to macOS 12
> Monterey.
>
> Regards,
> John Ralls
>
> ___
> gnucash-devel mailing list
> gnucash-de...@gnucash.org
> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-devel
>
___
gnucash-user mailing list
gnucash-user@gnucash.org
To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see 
https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
-
Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.

[GNC] GnuCash 4.8-2 DMG for macOS 12

[John Ralls]

The last two beta releases of macOS 12 Monterey changed the behavior of a 
low-level graphics function used by Gtk3 that resulted in application windows 
not being able to display their content. I've fixed the problem and made a new 
GnuCash bundle, GnuCash 4.8-2, SHA256 
20af888f1d1293a036b595145ad9e5338b3a92f868b6e4fca021d4cc7d9df36b.

You need to use it only if you're using or planning to upgrade to macOS 12 
Monterey.

Regards,
John Ralls

___
gnucash-user mailing list
gnucash-user@gnucash.org
To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see 
https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
-
Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.

Re: [GNC] Compiling 2.6.19

[john]

> On Oct 13, 2021, at 11:43 PM, AC  wrote:
> 
> I'm having a bit of trouble compiling 2.6.19 (so that I can begin the
> upgrade process for the data) but the dependencies are not being met.
> 
> All the base dependency packages are installed but the versioning seems
> to be off or package names have changed and don't expose old library
> names.  For example, I'm installing on Debian 9 Buster and I get errors
> about webkit-1.0 despite having installed despite having
> libwebkit2gtk-4.0-dev, libqtwebkit-dev, libqt5webkit5-dev,
> libkf5webkit-dev, and just about every other webkit library I can find
> installed.  I did also run the build-dep to pull in anything else.
> 
> There's probably going to be others but the configure script stops at
> the webkit test.
> 
> The package manager only has up to 3.4 and I'm trying to make my way to 4.8.

WebKit1 and WebKit2 are different APIs, and the last WebKitGtk that supported 
the WebKit1 API was 2.4.11. Browser software is for nearly all users the best 
attack vector into their machines and so gets the most attention from both 
security researchers and the bad guys. Distros aren't comfortable shipping old 
browser software, but for several years most of them kept WebKitGtk-2.4.11 
specifically to support GnuCash only because GnuCash doesn't connect it to the 
outside; we been stuck on that release because it was the last one to support 
Gtk2 and we were in no hurry to update our GUI to Gtk3. That stopped the summer 
before our scheduled release of 3.0: Several distro packagers notified us that 
the upcoming releases of their distros wouldn't have WebKitGtk-2.4.11 and we 
had to scramble to upgrade the GUI to Gtk3 and to support the WebKit2 API; it 
delayed the release of GnuCash 3.0 by 3 months.

If your package manager has GnuCash 3.4 then it doesn't have WebKitGtk 2.4.11. 
You can get the source from downloads.gnome.org  
and build it yourself or you can get an ISO from an older version of your 
distro and boot it in live-cd mode to build GnuCash 2.6.21 and prepare your 
data file for upgrading to GnuCash 3.

Regards,
John Ralls

___
gnucash-user mailing list
gnucash-user@gnucash.org
To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see 
https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
-
Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.

Re: [GNC] My begining balance is wrong

[Billie-Internet]

David,
These problems started before the save as issue. Before that, all I ever
used was the save button on the menu.
[image: image.png]
I did read the info on file names before asking question so I knew what
file I was looking for .   I did not know about the wiki on backups.  I
will read it as follow up.

FYI to all, reconcile is still not holding checked transactions.


Billie
706-383-9057




On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 at 12:31 PM D.  wrote:

> Derek,  Billie,
>
> I'm going out on a limb here, but I'm going to guess that the various
> problems (unsaved changes, reversion to different points, lost progress,
> etc.) have to do with the attempts to back up the data file using Save As.
> It would be very easy under these circumstances to access the wrong file
> and wonder where the last set of changes had gone.
>
> And to take another point up here, Billie, you didn't ask specifically,
> but I imagine you probably should take a look at the wiki page on backups (
> https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Backup) as well as the FAQ entries about
> file naming (
> https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/FAQ#Basics:_Filenames.2C_Directories.2C_...).
>
>
> David T.
> --
> *From:* Derek Atkins
> *Sent:* Thu Oct 14 09:52:31 EDT 2021
> *To:* Billie-Internet
> *Cc:* Gnucash Users
> *Subject:* Re: [GNC] My begining balance is wrong
>
> Hi,
>
> On Thu, October 14, 2021 9:32 am, Billie-Internet wrote:
>
>>  Good Morning,
>>  I am running
>>  Version: 4.4
>>  Build ID: 4.4+(2020-12-28)
>>   on windows 10.
>
>
> [snip]
>
>>  So today, while reconciling, rather than leave, I jumped back and forth
>>  from the check register that was open in the background to the reconcile
>>  to
>>  enter the few transactions that were on my bank statement but had not been
>>  put in the register.  I had put these transactions in yesterday but they
>>  were gone today.
>>
>
> For what it's worth, this is how I operate.  I have the account register
> open next to the reconcile window and just go back and forth adding new
> transactions instead of exiting the reconcile every time.  Considering
> sometimes I'm adding in 50 transactions, that would be a LOT of exiting
> sometimes!
>
>  After I clicked finish and then clicked the save button on the menu bar, I
>>  did a file> save as and saved what I hope is a complete backup to my
>>  downloads file.  I was trying to achieve a stop/start point at the
>>  completion of the reconcile.  I did this with QB everymonth and I am not
>>  sure why I quit doing it with gnucash when I started using it at the
>>  beginning of this year.
>>  Now, however, since I did the save as, it appears gnu is saving every time
>>  to downloads instead of where I had it set to auto save to which is my
>>  company files.
>>
>
> Yes.  By doing "Save As" you are telling GnuCash "this file is now located
> in this new location with this new name", and it will use that as the
> primary name going forward.  To save as a backup you need to copy the file
> in the background, or, just after you File -> Save As, you should File ->
> Open the original file again.
>
> Note:  If you have been making additional changes you should probably File
> -> Save As back to the original location.
>
>  [image: image.png]
>>  So here are my questions.
>>  Does anyone have any idea why my system reverterted back to a month
>>  previous?
>>
>
> Perhaps you opened a Backup file?  Honestly, don't know.
>
>  Why would my reconcile not be saving the reconcile when I ask to postpone?
>>
>
> Don't know.
>
>  How do I get my files backing up to my "company files" file where I
>>  normally save them?
>>
>
> See above.
>
>  Could having a version of quickbooks open at the same time as gnucash have
>>  caused these issues?  I had quickbooks open to get a report from last year
>>  for the accountant.
>>
>
> Extremely unlikely. I can't see how there would be any interaction between
> them.
>
>  One last question, will I ever become competant with this program?  I used
>>  QB for 25 years and knew how to work with it but the thought of paying
>>  $200
>>  a year for a program you should be able to buy, just killed me so I went
>>  to
>>  gnucash.  I have been using gnucash since Jan 2021 and I am amazed that  I
>>  am still struggling with split transactions not balancing!!  I am just
>>  lamenting.  I know there is no answer to this but time!
>>
>
> Yes, you will become proficient, eventually.  There are certain "tricks"
> that you eventually learn as you use the program.  For example, when
> entering a split transaction you should never hit the [Enter] key until
> you are absolutely done, and you should be sure you have an anchor split
> entered first, so the transaction doesn't disappear from the current view.
>
> Good Luck!
>
>  Thanks for any and all help.
>>
>>
>>  Billie
>>  706-383-9057
>>
>
>  Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
>>  You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
>>
>
> -derek
>
>
___

Re: [GNC] My begining balance is wrong

[D. via gnucash-user]

Derek,  Billie,

I'm going out on a limb here, but I'm going to guess that the various problems 
(unsaved changes, reversion to different points, lost progress, etc.) have to 
do with the attempts to back up the data file using Save As. It would be very 
easy under these circumstances to access the wrong file and wonder where the 
last set of changes had gone. 

And to take another point up here, Billie, you didn't ask specifically, but I 
imagine you probably should take a look at the wiki page on backups 
(https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Backup) as well as the FAQ entries about file 
naming 
(https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/FAQ#Basics:_Filenames.2C_Directories.2C_...). 

David T. 


 Original Message 
From: Derek Atkins 
Sent: Thu Oct 14 09:52:31 EDT 2021
To: Billie-Internet 
Cc: Gnucash Users 
Subject: Re: [GNC] My begining balance is wrong

Hi,

On Thu, October 14, 2021 9:32 am, Billie-Internet wrote:
> Good Morning,
> I am running
> Version: 4.4
> Build ID: 4.4+(2020-12-28)
>  on windows 10.
>
[snip]
> So today, while reconciling, rather than leave, I jumped back and forth
> from the check register that was open in the background to the reconcile
> to
> enter the few transactions that were on my bank statement but had not been
> put in the register.  I had put these transactions in yesterday but they
> were gone today.

For what it's worth, this is how I operate.  I have the account register
open next to the reconcile window and just go back and forth adding new
transactions instead of exiting the reconcile every time.  Considering
sometimes I'm adding in 50 transactions, that would be a LOT of exiting
sometimes!

> After I clicked finish and then clicked the save button on the menu bar, I
> did a file> save as and saved what I hope is a complete backup to my
> downloads file.  I was trying to achieve a stop/start point at the
> completion of the reconcile.  I did this with QB everymonth and I am not
> sure why I quit doing it with gnucash when I started using it at the
> beginning of this year.
> Now, however, since I did the save as, it appears gnu is saving every time
> to downloads instead of where I had it set to auto save to which is my
> company files.

Yes.  By doing "Save As" you are telling GnuCash "this file is now located
in this new location with this new name", and it will use that as the
primary name going forward.  To save as a backup you need to copy the file
in the background, or, just after you File -> Save As, you should File ->
Open the original file again.

Note:  If you have been making additional changes you should probably File
-> Save As back to the original location.

> [image: image.png]
> So here are my questions.
> Does anyone have any idea why my system reverterted back to a month
> previous?

Perhaps you opened a Backup file?  Honestly, don't know.

> Why would my reconcile not be saving the reconcile when I ask to postpone?

Don't know.

> How do I get my files backing up to my "company files" file where I
> normally save them?

See above.

> Could having a version of quickbooks open at the same time as gnucash have
> caused these issues?  I had quickbooks open to get a report from last year
> for the accountant.

Extremely unlikely. I can't see how there would be any interaction between
them.

> One last question, will I ever become competant with this program?  I used
> QB for 25 years and knew how to work with it but the thought of paying
> $200
> a year for a program you should be able to buy, just killed me so I went
> to
> gnucash.  I have been using gnucash since Jan 2021 and I am amazed that  I
> am still struggling with split transactions not balancing!!  I am just
> lamenting.  I know there is no answer to this but time!

Yes, you will become proficient, eventually.  There are certain "tricks"
that you eventually learn as you use the program.  For example, when
entering a split transaction you should never hit the [Enter] key until
you are absolutely done, and you should be sure you have an anchor split
entered first, so the transaction doesn't disappear from the current view.

Good Luck!

> Thanks for any and all help.
>
>
> Billie
> 706-383-9057

> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.

-derek

-- 
   Derek Atkins 617-623-3745
   de...@ihtfp.com www.ihtfp.com
   Computer and Internet Security Consultant

___
gnucash-user mailing list
gnucash-user@gnucash.org
To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see 
https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
-
Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
___
gnucash-user mailing list
gnucash-user@gnucash.org
To upd

[GNC] A Couple of Budgeting Notes

[David T. via gnucash-user]

Hello,

In recent days, I've been tinkering around (again) with GnuCash's budget 
features, and I thought I'd share a couple of things that were not 
obvious to me from the interface or the documentation with regards to 
setting budget values.


First, it was not clear to me how the Estimate function operated. 
Specifically, if I use this function and leave the "Use Average" box 
unchecked, I didn't understand that each value in the result was derived 
from the corresponding period in sequence in the sample. In other words, 
the first budget amount was set to the first period transactions, the 
second budget amount to the second period of transactions, and so on. As 
an example, imagine I have a 12-month budget from 3/1/2020 to 2/28/2021, 
and I set the Estimator to use transactions from 10/1/2010. The amount 
budgeted for 3/1/2020 will be equal to the transactions in 10/2010, 
4/1/2020 will be equal to the transactions in 11/2010, etc. On this 
subject, the Guide simply says that the estimator will look at all 
transactions in the selected period but doesn't explain how the numbers 
are derived or allocated.


Second, it may be of use to others to know that it is easy to set some 
accounts to use an equal budgeted amount, while setting others to vary 
over time to reflect seasonal changes in amounts. The way to accomplish 
this is to use the Estimate function separately for each type of budget 
account. Open the Estimate option, select the accounts for which you 
want varying amounts and uncheck the Use Average button. Now, repeat the 
process for the fixed value accounts, and check the Use Average box. 
Your budget will now have both fixed and varying amounts in the 
different accounts. As I said, this may be obvious to some, but it 
wasn't something that I realized for some time.


I hope that sharing these points with the list will help others make 
more productive use of the budget features.


Cheers,

David T.

___
gnucash-user mailing list
gnucash-user@gnucash.org
To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see 
https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
-
Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.

Re: [GNC] How do you do this - differentiate scheduled transaction versus no scheduled one

[Thomas Forrester]

Interesting questions, Kalpesh.

Not sure I fully understand your first question, so I'll answer the second
first, then tell you how I handle auto-pay situations at the bank that have
a corresponding scheduled transaction in GnuCash.

So for #2, I let the actual cash account prevail where the date is
concerned.  That's the date my bank tells me the funds left my account.  In
the case of a credit card payment, for instance, the payment they receive
falls within the statement cycle, so when reconciling the account the
payment is there and obvious even if slightly off in date.  That said, I
really think it's up to you to decide which date you want to honor.  You're
definately not alone, though, I see those same date differences in
reconciling my accounts, too.

For #1, I have many template transactions for auto-pay payments I've set up
with my bank, credit card companies, and even direct service providers like
Netflix that have an auto-bill.  These template transactions might even
have dummy amounts as place holders so that the transaction gets into the
registers.  For example:

Expenses:Utilities:GasDR 1.00
Expenses:Utilities:Electric   DR 1.00
Assets:Checking  CR 2.00

Once I get the actual bill, I adjust the numbers to actual.  When it comes
to reconciling, I probably go about it very differently than most people.
I have not bothered to set up online banking for direct transaction
download into GnuCash from my financial institutions.  Instead, I download
the transactions manually from each institution in Quicken format, then
import them into GnuCash.  In the import wizard, I set all imported
transactions to hit an account I call "Pending Distribution or Split" which
is a top-level Equity account just like "Orphan" or "Imbalance".  This puts
every transaction into one place for me to review and distribute.  In the
case of a general purchase from Amazon or a grocery store, I look up the
purchase and enter an accurate description and distribute to the proper
account.  If the transaction has a scheduled transaction entry in the
register already that corresponds with an imported transaction, I just
"jump" from the imported transaction to the register for the institution
where the transaction downloaded from.  It is usually within a transaction
or two, or often right next to the scheduled transaction.  So I check the
dates on the two, and adjust the GnuCash scheduled transaction date to
match the downloaded transaction date.  Then I delete the downloaded
transaction which takes it out of my "Pending" account as well as
eliminates the duplicate transaction in the institution's register.  The
order I process transactions in the "Pending" account is 1) general
purchases, 2) credit card reconciliations, and 3) bank account
reconciliations.  Payments made from checking to a credit card company will
have two transactions in the "Pending" account when I do all my imports,
one from the credit card company receiving a payment, and another from the
bank making the payment.  When I reconcile the credit card statement, it
will generate a new payment transaction which credits my checking account.
At this point, I delete the other two transactions.  They can be deleted
from the "Pending" account, or the institutions account, but I find it
easier to see a duplicated amount in the institutions account and delete
the one that's hitting the "Pending" account.

So basically, I'm driven by downloaded transactions.  GnuCash does a lot of
the work through scheduled transactions to at least get the known,
recurring transactions entered for me.  But for those scheduled
transactions that are variable from month to month (a utility bill, for
instance), I put in dummy transactions that gets adjusted to actual amounts
when I'm working my way through all the other downloaded transactions.
Importing everything into my "Pending" account gives me one place to go see
and review everything that's happened since I last downloaded everything.
A complete cycle is complete for me when my "Pending" account is empty.  I
use an Excel spreadsheet to track the beginning and ending dates for
transactions downloaded from each institution so I don't end up overlapping
downloads.

Hope that helps (someone, if not you, lol)
Tom

On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 at 9:20 AM Kalpesh Patel  wrote:

> A workflow questions for GNC users:
>
>
>
> 1 - My habits when it comes to payments for example credit card, mortgage,
> other bills, etc. is to scheduled it out in advance from the appropriate
> institutions that hold my bank accounts, such as checking, savings, etc. at
> a future date but within due date. In the sub-account register for the bank
> account, I like to some-how want to be able to differentiate that I have
> already scheduled up a transaction versus other transaction that is needed
> to be scheduled out. What I was hoping would be that is in the reconcile
> column there would be able to put user defined character, rather tha

Re: [GNC] Reconciliation Changes

[David Carlson]

I wonder if there is some confusion here between manually marking (or
un-marking) account and sub-account transactions as reconciled (or not) vs
the automatic marking that happens when the reconciliation process is
initiated.  The purpose of the pause before committing the reconciliation
is to allow the user to uncheck the items that have not cleared to bring
the cleared balance to match the outside bank statement or the user's
desired result.  I hope that GnuCash still pre-marks all un-reconciled
account transactions (and sub-account transactions if they exist and the
appropriate box is checked) dated before the reconciliation date when the
reconciliation is started, as manually marking possibly hundreds of
transactions at the beginning of the process would definitely be a pain. I
do agree that each sub-account transaction line should be separately
manually changeable.

Because I am still running release 3.8 I cannot observe for myself how it
works now, but release 3.8 does at least pre-mark all un-reconciled account
transactions before the reconciliation date.  I do not have sub-accounts in
my data.

On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 at 6:53 AM Derek Atkins  wrote:

> Chris, Lisa,
>
> Yes, I agree with David here.  It is absolutely quite common (and for
> DECADES has been the suggested way to do "envelope budgeting" in GnuCash)
> -- to have subaccounts of your Bank (or other Asset) account for your
> budget items.
>
> I realize that I did instigate your change in PR-713, however to reiterate
> my original message, "I do not agree with this change AND think it will
> introduce another bug" (emphasis added here).  I still think the original
> change you made in PR-670 was wrong.  But regardless, here we are now.
>
> In your particular case in bug #797648 I (still) don't understand why this
> is a single transaction.  If you are using two payment methods to two
> expense accounts, that to me is two transactions.  They could be processed
> at different times, post at different times, and they are absolutely for
> different items.  I don't even know how you can place such an order (well,
> except, I guess, if you're at a restaurant and order separate checks --
> but even in that case I don't see why you need to enter it as a single
> transaction).
>
> The use-case of envelope budgeting is definitely more common than your use
> case, so we should definitely support that.  Perhaps I can propose some
> additional logic:
>
> If *ALL* the splits in a transaction are within the Reconciliation account
> (sub)tree, then when you click on one, it should be as if you click on all
> of them.  That would help Lisa's use-case of moving money from one
> envelope into another, or from the main account into an envelope.
>
> However, this (new?) logic will not help in the case of a purchase where
> you're buying things from different envelope budgets in a single
> transaction (e.g. you're buying toothpaste and gas in the same
> transaction).  I'm not sure how to get this and Chris' desire (and my
> desire) together, because I feel they are all mutually exclusive
> processes.
>
> I will just point out that in the reconcile window, all the splits of the
> same transaction will be next to each other, so if you're buying
> toothpaste and gas together, the splits for
> Assets:Bank:Checking:Toothpaste and Assets:Bank:Checking:Gas will be next
> to each other and should be easy enough to check manually (because they
> would both be credits in the same transaction).
>
> -derek
>
> On Thu, October 14, 2021 7:26 am, D. via gnucash-user wrote:
> > Chris,
> >
> > I believe she's implementing envelope budgeting
> > (https://www.thebalance.com/what-is-envelope-budgeting-1293682) using
> sub
> > accounts. A fair number of users of Gnucash do this, which has been
> > discussed on the lists over the years.
> >
> > David T.
> >
> >
> >  Original Message 
> > From: Chris Good 
> > Sent: Thu Oct 14 03:11:57 EDT 2021
> > To: gnucash-user@gnucash.org
> > Subject: Re: [GNC] Reconciliation Changes
> >
> > Hi Lisa,
> >
> > This change was done under
> https://bugs.gnucash.org/show_bug.cgi?id=797648
> > for reasons explained in the bug.
> > The first fix went live in 3.9 which forced all splits in a transaction
> to
> > the new selected reconciled state when one of them was changed, rather
> > than
> > just toggling the reconciliation status of all the splits for the account
> > being reconciled.
> > This was deemed incorrect, so a change was made in 3.11 where changing
> the
> > reconciliation status of a split in a transaction had no effect of other
> > splits in the transaction for the account being reconciled.
> >
> > I wouldn't recommend running an old version like 3.10. Never upgrading
> > until
> > you have to greatly increases your risk of falling foul of a security
> > issue
> > (or just a bug) that may have already been fixed.
> >
> > I don't upgrade immediately a new version is available, but I do after a
> > little while so it is likely

Re: [GNC] Credit Card Rewards Refund

[Steve Butler]

I also record as misc. non-taxed income.  Thinking of titling a new income
account as "Rebates".

On Thu, Oct 14, 2021, 05:34 rsbrux via gnucash-user <
gnucash-user@gnucash.org> wrote:

> I have a credit card which, like a few others, accrues a small
> percentage (1-2%) of the amounts spent as a rebate.  The rebate isn't
> subtracted from each charge, but accumulates in the card account as
> "Reward Points" until I cash them in.  The amount is then credited to
> the card account as a payment.  Should such payments be recorded as
> income or as a negative expense?
>
> ___
> gnucash-user mailing list
> gnucash-user@gnucash.org
> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
> If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see
> https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
> -
> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
>
___
gnucash-user mailing list
gnucash-user@gnucash.org
To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see 
https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
-
Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.

Re: [GNC] Credit Card Rewards Refund

[paul]

" will mask the true cost of whatever was purchased"

It's all a matter of perspective. If I want 100 widgets at $10, but know I get 
2% back on my credit card, I might look at that as a $980 item. The fact that I 
pay $1,000 now and get refunded $20 later is a cash flow issue.

Not that I actually do that: take the diametrically opposed approach of 
deliberately forgetting that anything is ever coming back. Then my wife 
eventually finds a large rewards balance and uses it to pay for her vacation.

-Original Message-
From: gnucash-user  On Behalf 
Of Steve Welch via gnucash-user
Sent: October 14, 2021 9:23 AM
To: rsbrux 
Cc: gnucash-u...@lists.gnucash.org
Subject: Re: [GNC] Credit Card Rewards Refund

One further thought:  treating rewards as a negative expense will mask the true 
cost of whatever was purchased.  If you stop using your rewards card, suddenly 
your apparent expenses will go up. 

Both professionally and personally I generally prefer to not muddy expense 
accounts with negative entries unless it really makes sense. 

Sent from my iPhone



___
gnucash-user mailing list
gnucash-user@gnucash.org
To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see 
https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
-
Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.

Re: [GNC] Credit Card Rewards Refund

[Gyle McCollam]

It would depend on how your jurisdiction treats these rebates for tax purposes. 
 If they are not taxable, you can treat them whichever way you like.  I treat 
them as a negative expense, but if they are taxable you would need to record 
them in an income account.


Thank You,
Gyle McCollam

Gyle McCollam

609.680.2326 Mobile

gmccol...@live.com   email


From: gnucash-user  on 
behalf of rsbrux via gnucash-user 
Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2021 8:32 AM
To: gnucash-u...@lists.gnucash.org 
Subject: [GNC] Credit Card Rewards Refund

I have a credit card which, like a few others, accrues a small
percentage (1-2%) of the amounts spent as a rebate.  The rebate isn't
subtracted from each charge, but accumulates in the card account as
"Reward Points" until I cash them in.  The amount is then credited to
the card account as a payment.  Should such payments be recorded as
income or as a negative expense?

___
gnucash-user mailing list
gnucash-user@gnucash.org
To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see 
https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
-
Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
___
gnucash-user mailing list
gnucash-user@gnucash.org
To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see 
https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
-
Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.

Re: [GNC] How do you do this - differentiate scheduled transaction versus no scheduled one

[Peter West]

FWIW, when I receive a bill to be paid at some future date, I put the amount in 
as a liability against the appropriate expense account. I then schedule the 
payment for that future date, both at my bank and in the scheduled payments 
editor. In that case, the entry is from my cash account against the the 
liability account. IANAA.

Peter
—
Peter West
p...@ehealth.id.au
“This generation is an evil generation.”

> On 15 Oct 2021, at 12:19 am, Kalpesh Patel  wrote:
> 
> A workflow questions for GNC users:
> 
> 
> 
> 1 - My habits when it comes to payments for example credit card, mortgage,
> other bills, etc. is to scheduled it out in advance from the appropriate
> institutions that hold my bank accounts, such as checking, savings, etc. at
> a future date but within due date. In the sub-account register for the bank
> account, I like to some-how want to be able to differentiate that I have
> already scheduled up a transaction versus other transaction that is needed
> to be scheduled out. What I was hoping would be that is in the reconcile
> column there would be able to put user defined character, rather than just
> limited to 'y', 'c' and 'n' so that I can actually sort out and see what is
> actually scheduled out and what is not in that account. It seems that this
> is not possible so what would be the best way to differentiate between two
> in the register? I do use scheduling to auto enter certain transactions but
> I still verify with the bank that transaction is actually scheduled and want
> to mark that it has been confirmed as such.
> 
> 
> 
> 2 - How should I be handling a transactions where for example my credit card
> credits my payment today but bank doesn't show the corresponding withdrawal
> transaction until 3 days later when the funds are actually withdrawn from
> the account. Currently one transaction will accept only one date for both
> side of the transactions but during import and reconcile time if I update +
> reconcile then the timestamp changes to whoever's transactions are
> reconciled last from the two accounts. This is somewhat super annoying
> because it re-arranges things in register so when you try to find an
> erroneous transaction of small amount, you cannot compare against the
> running ledger from the institution's on-line portal against entries in the
> register or the running total in the register entailing lots of manual
> back-and-forth in the register and possibly updating reconciled
> transactions.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> ___
> gnucash-user mailing list
> gnucash-user@gnucash.org
> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
> If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see 
> https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
> -
> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.

___
gnucash-user mailing list
gnucash-user@gnucash.org
To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see 
https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
-
Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.

Re: [GNC] How do you do this - differentiate scheduled transaction versus no scheduled one

[Derek Atkins]

Hi,

On Thu, October 14, 2021 10:19 am, Kalpesh Patel wrote:
> A workflow questions for GNC users:
>
>
>
> 1 - My habits when it comes to payments for example credit card, mortgage,
> other bills, etc. is to scheduled it out in advance from the appropriate
> institutions that hold my bank accounts, such as checking, savings, etc.
> at
> a future date but within due date. In the sub-account register for the
> bank
> account, I like to some-how want to be able to differentiate that I have
> already scheduled up a transaction versus other transaction that is needed
> to be scheduled out. What I was hoping would be that is in the reconcile
> column there would be able to put user defined character, rather than just
> limited to 'y', 'c' and 'n' so that I can actually sort out and see what
> is
> actually scheduled out and what is not in that account. It seems that this
> is not possible so what would be the best way to differentiate between two
> in the register? I do use scheduling to auto enter certain transactions
> but
> I still verify with the bank that transaction is actually scheduled and
> want
> to mark that it has been confirmed as such.

I only enter transactions into GnuCash when I schedule them with the bank.
 So if they are not in the bank's billpay system then they are not in
GnuCash.


>
>
> 2 - How should I be handling a transactions where for example my credit
> card
> credits my payment today but bank doesn't show the corresponding
> withdrawal
> transaction until 3 days later when the funds are actually withdrawn from
> the account. Currently one transaction will accept only one date for both
> side of the transactions but during import and reconcile time if I update
> +
> reconcile then the timestamp changes to whoever's transactions are
> reconciled last from the two accounts. This is somewhat super annoying
> because it re-arranges things in register so when you try to find an
> erroneous transaction of small amount, you cannot compare against the
> running ledger from the institution's on-line portal against entries in
> the
> register or the running total in the register entailing lots of manual
> back-and-forth in the register and possibly updating reconciled
> transactions.

If the *exact date* is very important to you, then you need to use a
suspense account for the in-transit payments.  I'll just point out that
MANY types of transactions have unknown time order.  For example, when you
write a check, it could be a MONTH before it gets cashed, but you better
account for it when you write it to make sure there is always enough money
in the account for the check to clear!

The way I think about it is that I always want to be conservative in my
bank account, so I would date any credits (withdrawals) from my bank
account the day I schedule them to fire -- even if they only clear days
later.  For debits (deposits), I date them when I expect them to hit my
account (e.g. if I sell some stock, the money doesn't get to me for a few
days, so I date it a little in the future).

Personally, I don't care about the *exact* date -- it being close is "good
enough" for me.

I use the reconcile process to find missing or errored transactions.  It
happens, sometimes -- fat fingering a number, swapping digits, or just
missing a transaction.

Sometimes outside reconciliation I do try to go against the bank's
transaction list and look for matching balances.  I understand your
frustration when they don't line up!  So sometimes you (I!) need to just
do the mental matching to find what may be missing (often it's a
transaction my wife made and didn't tell me).

Regardless, forcing GnuCash to match all financial institutions leads to
madness.

> Thanks.

> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.

-derek

-- 
   Derek Atkins 617-623-3745
   de...@ihtfp.com www.ihtfp.com
   Computer and Internet Security Consultant

___
gnucash-user mailing list
gnucash-user@gnucash.org
To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see 
https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
-
Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.

Re: [GNC] Credit Card Rewards Refund

[Dustin Henning]

Because it is not considered taxable income in my jurisdiction, and 
because I only use the credit card due to the fact that I will get 
rewards (otherwise I would be a check or cash guy), I record it as a 
negative miscellaneous expense.  Outside of jurisdictions where this 
would be considered taxable income, I believe the various replies to 
this thread confirm it's a matter of personal preference.  That having 
been said, regarding my wife's small business, our accountant did advise 
me to reduce the expense of whatever was purchased by the reward amount 
redeemed against the purchase(s).  Fortunately, my wife prefers to 
redeem it as a statement credit anyway, so it goes toward the 
purchase(s) on the statement being paid.


Dustin

On 10/14/21 9:22 AM, Steve Welch via gnucash-user wrote:

One further thought:  treating rewards as a negative expense will mask the true 
cost of whatever was purchased.  If you stop using your rewards card, suddenly 
your apparent expenses will go up.

Both professionally and personally I generally prefer to not muddy expense 
accounts with negative entries unless it really makes sense.

Sent from my iPhone


On Oct 14, 2021, at 8:34 AM, rsbrux via gnucash-user  
wrote:

I have a credit card which, like a few others, accrues a small percentage (1-2%) of the 
amounts spent as a rebate.  The rebate isn't subtracted from each charge, but accumulates 
in the card account as "Reward Points" until I cash them in.  The amount is 
then credited to the card account as a payment.  Should such payments be recorded as 
income or as a negative expense?

___
gnucash-user mailing list
gnucash-user@gnucash.org
To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see 
https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
-
Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.

___
gnucash-user mailing list
gnucash-user@gnucash.org
To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see 
https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
-
Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.

___
gnucash-user mailing list
gnucash-user@gnucash.org
To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see 
https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
-
Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.

[GNC] How do you do this - differentiate scheduled transaction versus no scheduled one

[Kalpesh Patel]

A workflow questions for GNC users:

 

1 - My habits when it comes to payments for example credit card, mortgage,
other bills, etc. is to scheduled it out in advance from the appropriate
institutions that hold my bank accounts, such as checking, savings, etc. at
a future date but within due date. In the sub-account register for the bank
account, I like to some-how want to be able to differentiate that I have
already scheduled up a transaction versus other transaction that is needed
to be scheduled out. What I was hoping would be that is in the reconcile
column there would be able to put user defined character, rather than just
limited to 'y', 'c' and 'n' so that I can actually sort out and see what is
actually scheduled out and what is not in that account. It seems that this
is not possible so what would be the best way to differentiate between two
in the register? I do use scheduling to auto enter certain transactions but
I still verify with the bank that transaction is actually scheduled and want
to mark that it has been confirmed as such.

 

2 - How should I be handling a transactions where for example my credit card
credits my payment today but bank doesn't show the corresponding withdrawal
transaction until 3 days later when the funds are actually withdrawn from
the account. Currently one transaction will accept only one date for both
side of the transactions but during import and reconcile time if I update +
reconcile then the timestamp changes to whoever's transactions are
reconciled last from the two accounts. This is somewhat super annoying
because it re-arranges things in register so when you try to find an
erroneous transaction of small amount, you cannot compare against the
running ledger from the institution's on-line portal against entries in the
register or the running total in the register entailing lots of manual
back-and-forth in the register and possibly updating reconciled
transactions.

 

Thanks.

___
gnucash-user mailing list
gnucash-user@gnucash.org
To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see 
https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
-
Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.

Re: [GNC] Online price retrieval

[Fred Bone]

On 13 October 2021 at 0:24, J Medina said:

> Gentlemen/Ladies,
> 
> I want to install Finance::Quote on Windows10
> 
> Could you please give me a bit more detailed explanation on how to do this
> >>>  Run Start → GnuCash → Install Online Price Retrieval.
> 
> I understand I need to do this from the command prompt ...I just need a
> more substantial explanation even if it is a broad one. Thank you a lot.

No, you do not do it from the command prompt. You run it from the Start 
menu.

___
gnucash-user mailing list
gnucash-user@gnucash.org
To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see 
https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
-
Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.

Re: [GNC] My begining balance is wrong

[Derek Atkins]

Hi,

On Thu, October 14, 2021 9:32 am, Billie-Internet wrote:
> Good Morning,
> I am running
> Version: 4.4
> Build ID: 4.4+(2020-12-28)
>  on windows 10.
>
[snip]
> So today, while reconciling, rather than leave, I jumped back and forth
> from the check register that was open in the background to the reconcile
> to
> enter the few transactions that were on my bank statement but had not been
> put in the register.  I had put these transactions in yesterday but they
> were gone today.

For what it's worth, this is how I operate.  I have the account register
open next to the reconcile window and just go back and forth adding new
transactions instead of exiting the reconcile every time.  Considering
sometimes I'm adding in 50 transactions, that would be a LOT of exiting
sometimes!

> After I clicked finish and then clicked the save button on the menu bar, I
> did a file> save as and saved what I hope is a complete backup to my
> downloads file.  I was trying to achieve a stop/start point at the
> completion of the reconcile.  I did this with QB everymonth and I am not
> sure why I quit doing it with gnucash when I started using it at the
> beginning of this year.
> Now, however, since I did the save as, it appears gnu is saving every time
> to downloads instead of where I had it set to auto save to which is my
> company files.

Yes.  By doing "Save As" you are telling GnuCash "this file is now located
in this new location with this new name", and it will use that as the
primary name going forward.  To save as a backup you need to copy the file
in the background, or, just after you File -> Save As, you should File ->
Open the original file again.

Note:  If you have been making additional changes you should probably File
-> Save As back to the original location.

> [image: image.png]
> So here are my questions.
> Does anyone have any idea why my system reverterted back to a month
> previous?

Perhaps you opened a Backup file?  Honestly, don't know.

> Why would my reconcile not be saving the reconcile when I ask to postpone?

Don't know.

> How do I get my files backing up to my "company files" file where I
> normally save them?

See above.

> Could having a version of quickbooks open at the same time as gnucash have
> caused these issues?  I had quickbooks open to get a report from last year
> for the accountant.

Extremely unlikely. I can't see how there would be any interaction between
them.

> One last question, will I ever become competant with this program?  I used
> QB for 25 years and knew how to work with it but the thought of paying
> $200
> a year for a program you should be able to buy, just killed me so I went
> to
> gnucash.  I have been using gnucash since Jan 2021 and I am amazed that  I
> am still struggling with split transactions not balancing!!  I am just
> lamenting.  I know there is no answer to this but time!

Yes, you will become proficient, eventually.  There are certain "tricks"
that you eventually learn as you use the program.  For example, when
entering a split transaction you should never hit the [Enter] key until
you are absolutely done, and you should be sure you have an anchor split
entered first, so the transaction doesn't disappear from the current view.

Good Luck!

> Thanks for any and all help.
>
>
> Billie
> 706-383-9057

> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.

-derek

-- 
   Derek Atkins 617-623-3745
   de...@ihtfp.com www.ihtfp.com
   Computer and Internet Security Consultant

___
gnucash-user mailing list
gnucash-user@gnucash.org
To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see 
https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
-
Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.

Re: [GNC] Online price retrieval

[Kalpesh Patel]

In the search box (the icon that looks like magnifying glass in the task
bar) just type in "Install Online Price Retrieval for GnuCash" and press the
"Enter" key to kick off the installation routine. You can follow the same
process to upgrade now and then as well. If all goes well, you should get a
message to the effect "* Installation succeeded" followed by "Press any key
to continue . . ." message. Here is the final screen output that I see:

 

 

 

Finance::Quote is up to date (1.51).

 

* Check environment variable ALPHAVANTAGE_API_KEY

 

  ***

  *** You need an API key (from https://www.alphavantage.co)

  ***   to run the Perl module Finance::Quote.

  ***

  *** Make it available to GnuCash by

  ***- setting the environment variable ALPHAVANTAGE_API_KEY or

  ***- starting GnuCash and adding the Alpha Vantage api key in

  ***Edit->Preferences->Online Quotes

  ***

 

* Run gnc-fq-check

 

("1.51" "aex" "alphavantage" "amfiindia" "asegr" "asx" "aufunds" "australia"
"bamosz" "bet" "bloomberg" "bourso" "bse" "bseindia" "canada" "canadamutual"
"comdirect" "cse" "deka" "dutch" "dwsfunds" "europe" "fetch_live_currencies"
"fidelity" "fidelity_direct" "finanzpartner" "fondsweb" "fool" "ftfunds"
"fundata" "fundlibrary" "goldmoney" "greece" "hu" "hufund" "hungary"
"hustock" "iexcloud" "india" "indiamutual" "known_currencies"
"morningstarau" "morningstarjp" "mstaruk" "nasdaq" "nseindia" "nyse" "nzx"
"onvista" "oslobors" "romania" "seb_funds" "six" "tiaacref" "tmx"
"tradeville" "troweprice" "troweprice_direct" "tsp" "ukfunds" "unionfunds"
"usa" "usfedbonds" "yahoo_json" "za")

 

* Run gnc-fq-helper

 

(#f)

 

* Installation succeeded

 

Press any key to continue . . .

 

 

 

--

 

Message: 5

Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2021 15:50:21 +1000

From: David H 

To: J Medina 

Cc: "gnucash-user@gnucash.org" 

Subject: Re: [GNC] Online price retrieval

Message-ID:

 


Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

 

Lots of info at https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Online_Quotes if you want to
read up on it.

 

There's a menu item for it - left click on the start menu windows logo, left
click on "A" in the list of installed programs, then left click "G"

for Gnucash and then open the Gnucash folder and click on the "Install
Online Price Retrieval for GnuCash" shortcut in the folder and let it do
it's thing.  This will also install Strawberry Perl for you as it needs that
to run - can take 5 - 10 minutes so wait until it finishes.

 

Cheers David H.

 

On Thu, 14 Oct 2021 at 15:36, J Medina  wrote:

 

> Gentlemen/Ladies,

> 

> I want to install Finance::Quote on Windows10

> 

> Could you please give me a bit more detailed explanation on how to do 

> this

> >>>  Run Start ? GnuCash ? Install Online Price Retrieval.

> 

> I understand I need to do this from the command prompt ...I just need 

> a more substantial explanation even if it is a broad one. Thank you a lot.

> ___

> gnucash-user mailing list

> gnucash-user@gnucash.org

> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:

> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user

> If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see 

> https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.

> -

> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.

> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.

> 

 

 

--

___
gnucash-user mailing list
gnucash-user@gnucash.org
To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see 
https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
-
Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.

Re: [GNC] Credit Card Rewards Refund

[Steve Welch via gnucash-user]

One further thought:  treating rewards as a negative expense will mask the true 
cost of whatever was purchased.  If you stop using your rewards card, suddenly 
your apparent expenses will go up. 

Both professionally and personally I generally prefer to not muddy expense 
accounts with negative entries unless it really makes sense. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 14, 2021, at 8:34 AM, rsbrux via gnucash-user 
>  wrote:
> 
> I have a credit card which, like a few others, accrues a small percentage 
> (1-2%) of the amounts spent as a rebate.  The rebate isn't subtracted from 
> each charge, but accumulates in the card account as "Reward Points" until I 
> cash them in.  The amount is then credited to the card account as a payment.  
> Should such payments be recorded as income or as a negative expense?
> 
> ___
> gnucash-user mailing list
> gnucash-user@gnucash.org
> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
> If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see 
> https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
> -
> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
___
gnucash-user mailing list
gnucash-user@gnucash.org
To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see 
https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
-
Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.

Re: [GNC] Credit Card Rewards Refund

[Gerald]

I also treat it as miscellaneous income, and account for it when received,
as a welcome windfall.

You COULD allocate it against the credit card expenditure, as negative
expense, which would be more realistic, but I like seeing a windfall gain
once a year and then treat myself accordingly.  Note that in some tax
jurisdictions it could be treated as taxable income.

On Thu, 14 Oct 2021 at 14:07, Steve Welch via gnucash-user <
gnucash-user@gnucash.org> wrote:

> Because the rewards aren’t necessarily attributable to any one expense (or
> to split them out proportionately would be a whole lot of work), I always
> book them to miscellaneous income.  I also include that income when I
> budget.
>
> Hope that helps,
>
> Steve
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Oct 14, 2021, at 8:34 AM, rsbrux via gnucash-user <
> gnucash-user@gnucash.org> wrote:
> >
> > I have a credit card which, like a few others, accrues a small
> percentage (1-2%) of the amounts spent as a rebate.  The rebate isn't
> subtracted from each charge, but accumulates in the card account as "Reward
> Points" until I cash them in.  The amount is then credited to the card
> account as a payment.  Should such payments be recorded as income or as a
> negative expense?
> >
> > ___
> > gnucash-user mailing list
> > gnucash-user@gnucash.org
> > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
> > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
> > If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see
> https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
> > -
> > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
> > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
> ___
> gnucash-user mailing list
> gnucash-user@gnucash.org
> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
> If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see
> https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
> -
> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
>
___
gnucash-user mailing list
gnucash-user@gnucash.org
To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see 
https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
-
Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.

Re: [GNC] Credit Card Rewards Refund

[Jack Frillman via gnucash-user]

I also put it into a miscellaneous income.

On 10/14/21 9:07 AM, Steve Welch via gnucash-user wrote:

Because the rewards aren’t necessarily attributable to any one expense (or to 
split them out proportionately would be a whole lot of work), I always book 
them to miscellaneous income.  I also include that income when I budget.

Hope that helps,

Steve

Sent from my iPhone


On Oct 14, 2021, at 8:34 AM, rsbrux via gnucash-user  
wrote:

I have a credit card which, like a few others, accrues a small percentage (1-2%) of the 
amounts spent as a rebate.  The rebate isn't subtracted from each charge, but accumulates 
in the card account as "Reward Points" until I cash them in.  The amount is 
then credited to the card account as a payment.  Should such payments be recorded as 
income or as a negative expense?

___
gnucash-user mailing list
gnucash-user@gnucash.org
To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see 
https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
-
Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.

___
gnucash-user mailing list
gnucash-user@gnucash.org
To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see 
https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
-
Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.


--
Old Unix programmers never die, they just mv to /dev/null
- Anonymous

___
gnucash-user mailing list
gnucash-user@gnucash.org
To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see 
https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
-
Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.

Re: [GNC] Credit Card Rewards Refund

[Steve Welch via gnucash-user]

Because the rewards aren’t necessarily attributable to any one expense (or to 
split them out proportionately would be a whole lot of work), I always book 
them to miscellaneous income.  I also include that income when I budget. 

Hope that helps,

Steve

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 14, 2021, at 8:34 AM, rsbrux via gnucash-user 
>  wrote:
> 
> I have a credit card which, like a few others, accrues a small percentage 
> (1-2%) of the amounts spent as a rebate.  The rebate isn't subtracted from 
> each charge, but accumulates in the card account as "Reward Points" until I 
> cash them in.  The amount is then credited to the card account as a payment.  
> Should such payments be recorded as income or as a negative expense?
> 
> ___
> gnucash-user mailing list
> gnucash-user@gnucash.org
> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
> If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see 
> https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
> -
> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
___
gnucash-user mailing list
gnucash-user@gnucash.org
To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see 
https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
-
Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.

[GNC] Credit Card Rewards Refund

[rsbrux via gnucash-user]

I have a credit card which, like a few others, accrues a small 
percentage (1-2%) of the amounts spent as a rebate.  The rebate isn't 
subtracted from each charge, but accumulates in the card account as 
"Reward Points" until I cash them in.  The amount is then credited to 
the card account as a payment.  Should such payments be recorded as 
income or as a negative expense?


___
gnucash-user mailing list
gnucash-user@gnucash.org
To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see 
https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
-
Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.

Re: [GNC] Reconciliation Changes

[Derek Atkins]

Chris, Lisa,

Yes, I agree with David here.  It is absolutely quite common (and for
DECADES has been the suggested way to do "envelope budgeting" in GnuCash)
-- to have subaccounts of your Bank (or other Asset) account for your
budget items.

I realize that I did instigate your change in PR-713, however to reiterate
my original message, "I do not agree with this change AND think it will
introduce another bug" (emphasis added here).  I still think the original
change you made in PR-670 was wrong.  But regardless, here we are now.

In your particular case in bug #797648 I (still) don't understand why this
is a single transaction.  If you are using two payment methods to two
expense accounts, that to me is two transactions.  They could be processed
at different times, post at different times, and they are absolutely for
different items.  I don't even know how you can place such an order (well,
except, I guess, if you're at a restaurant and order separate checks --
but even in that case I don't see why you need to enter it as a single
transaction).

The use-case of envelope budgeting is definitely more common than your use
case, so we should definitely support that.  Perhaps I can propose some
additional logic:

If *ALL* the splits in a transaction are within the Reconciliation account
(sub)tree, then when you click on one, it should be as if you click on all
of them.  That would help Lisa's use-case of moving money from one
envelope into another, or from the main account into an envelope.

However, this (new?) logic will not help in the case of a purchase where
you're buying things from different envelope budgets in a single
transaction (e.g. you're buying toothpaste and gas in the same
transaction).  I'm not sure how to get this and Chris' desire (and my
desire) together, because I feel they are all mutually exclusive
processes.

I will just point out that in the reconcile window, all the splits of the
same transaction will be next to each other, so if you're buying
toothpaste and gas together, the splits for
Assets:Bank:Checking:Toothpaste and Assets:Bank:Checking:Gas will be next
to each other and should be easy enough to check manually (because they
would both be credits in the same transaction).

-derek

On Thu, October 14, 2021 7:26 am, D. via gnucash-user wrote:
> Chris,
>
> I believe she's implementing envelope budgeting
> (https://www.thebalance.com/what-is-envelope-budgeting-1293682) using sub
> accounts. A fair number of users of Gnucash do this, which has been
> discussed on the lists over the years.
>
> David T.
>
>
>  Original Message 
> From: Chris Good 
> Sent: Thu Oct 14 03:11:57 EDT 2021
> To: gnucash-user@gnucash.org
> Subject: Re: [GNC] Reconciliation Changes
>
> Hi Lisa,
>
> This change was done under https://bugs.gnucash.org/show_bug.cgi?id=797648
> for reasons explained in the bug.
> The first fix went live in 3.9 which forced all splits in a transaction to
> the new selected reconciled state when one of them was changed, rather
> than
> just toggling the reconciliation status of all the splits for the account
> being reconciled.
> This was deemed incorrect, so a change was made in 3.11 where changing the
> reconciliation status of a split in a transaction had no effect of other
> splits in the transaction for the account being reconciled.
>
> I wouldn't recommend running an old version like 3.10. Never upgrading
> until
> you have to greatly increases your risk of falling foul of a security
> issue
> (or just a bug) that may have already been fixed.
>
> I don't upgrade immediately a new version is available, but I do after a
> little while so it is likely that any major problems with a new release
> will
> have been found and probably fixed.
>
> It seems unusual to create different subaccounts in a bank account for
> different types of expenses.
> I believe it is more usual to split your income and expenses into
> different
> income and expense accounts, and do your budgeting based on the totals of
> those accounts.
>
> Regards,
> Chris Good
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2021 20:31:44 -0700
> From: Lisa Reynoso 
> To: David Carlson 
> Cc: DaveC49 , Gnucash Users
>   
> Subject: Re: [GNC] Reconciliation Changes
> Message-ID: <916d45e4-a319-4ab9-bfb9-fd7a6557f...@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> Well, my computer reformatted, so I had to start over. But in almost two
> decades, I started over several times, and this last time is the only time
> this problem occurred. I can?t imagine that had anything to do with it.
>
> I?m going to look at an old hard drive I saved from a couple computers
> back
> and see if I have an old installation file and see what it does if I do.
> Or
> what happens if I import old files from years back (if they are still
> there). I?ll let you know how it goes.
>
> Lisa
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Oct 12, 2021, at 5:35 PM, David Carlson 
> wrote:
>>
>> ?
>> Sub accounts under the same bank account are not th

Re: [GNC] Reconciliation Changes

[D. via gnucash-user]

Chris, 

I believe she's implementing envelope budgeting 
(https://www.thebalance.com/what-is-envelope-budgeting-1293682) using sub 
accounts. A fair number of users of Gnucash do this, which has been discussed 
on the lists over the years. 

David T. 


 Original Message 
From: Chris Good 
Sent: Thu Oct 14 03:11:57 EDT 2021
To: gnucash-user@gnucash.org
Subject: Re: [GNC] Reconciliation Changes

Hi Lisa,

This change was done under https://bugs.gnucash.org/show_bug.cgi?id=797648
for reasons explained in the bug.
The first fix went live in 3.9 which forced all splits in a transaction to
the new selected reconciled state when one of them was changed, rather than
just toggling the reconciliation status of all the splits for the account
being reconciled.
This was deemed incorrect, so a change was made in 3.11 where changing the
reconciliation status of a split in a transaction had no effect of other
splits in the transaction for the account being reconciled.

I wouldn't recommend running an old version like 3.10. Never upgrading until
you have to greatly increases your risk of falling foul of a security issue
(or just a bug) that may have already been fixed.

I don't upgrade immediately a new version is available, but I do after a
little while so it is likely that any major problems with a new release will
have been found and probably fixed.

It seems unusual to create different subaccounts in a bank account for
different types of expenses.
I believe it is more usual to split your income and expenses into different
income and expense accounts, and do your budgeting based on the totals of
those accounts.

Regards,
Chris Good

Message: 6
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2021 20:31:44 -0700
From: Lisa Reynoso 
To: David Carlson 
Cc: DaveC49 , Gnucash Users

Subject: Re: [GNC] Reconciliation Changes
Message-ID: <916d45e4-a319-4ab9-bfb9-fd7a6557f...@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;   charset=utf-8

Well, my computer reformatted, so I had to start over. But in almost two
decades, I started over several times, and this last time is the only time
this problem occurred. I can?t imagine that had anything to do with it. 

I?m going to look at an old hard drive I saved from a couple computers back
and see if I have an old installation file and see what it does if I do. Or
what happens if I import old files from years back (if they are still
there). I?ll let you know how it goes. 

Lisa

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 12, 2021, at 5:35 PM, David Carlson 
wrote:
> 
> ?
> Sub accounts under the same bank account are not the same as transfer s to
outside accounts. 
> 
> If I recall correctly, they must be of the same type as the parent
account.  I think that should still work as before in reconciliations.  Were
you able to import your table of accounts from an old file or did you start
over, possibly different somehow this time?
> 
> 
> 
>> On Tue, Oct 12, 2021, 7:18 PM Lisa Reynoso  wrote:
>> Okay, first, I don?t know what version I had before. It was about 2 years
ago that I downloaded it, and my hard drive was wiped, so I have no idea. 
>> 
>> Second, you completely misunderstood my problem. I understand the
reconciliation process intricately; I?ve been using it for a decade and a
half. I understand about clicking the ?include sub accounts? box; it?s the
sub account feature that turned me on to the program, since I was doing that
on paper as my mother did; a computer was so much faster, since it did most
of the math for me. I like math, but it gets tedious entering numbers in a
calculator. But I digress. 
>> 
>> There are two basic examples to illustrate. I have a checking account,
divided into various sub accounts, such as gas, groceries, clothing, school
bill, etc. When I deposit a paycheck, I split the deposit into various
accounts. Likewise when i purchase both food and toothpaste at the grocery
store; toothpaste doesn?t come from the food budget. When I want to
reconcile the checking, I used to be able to check one of those splits and
have them all highlight. So if I checked the toothpaste transaction, the
grocery charge would check as well. Of course the expense account wouldn?t
reconcile; I wasn?t referring to that. 
>> 
>> But the other example is when I transfer money within the checking
account from one sub account to another. Like my original gas to groceries
(or vice versa) analogy. In that case, when I would check the credit, the
debit would check automatically as well, and the balance on the
reconciliation would not change, because no money actually entered or left
the checking. It was just moved around within it. Now I have to check one
and then scroll down to find the other. I make several dozen of these
transactions every month, and it is tedious to have to check them both. 
>> 
>> I downloaded version 4.4 when this problem first made itself felt. I
downloaded 3.11 today, and it still doesn?t do what it used to. I have
Windows 10; I don?t know if an earlier version will work or not. 
>> 
>>

Re: [GNC] Reconciliation Changes

[Chris Good]

Hi Lisa,

This change was done under https://bugs.gnucash.org/show_bug.cgi?id=797648
for reasons explained in the bug.
The first fix went live in 3.9 which forced all splits in a transaction to
the new selected reconciled state when one of them was changed, rather than
just toggling the reconciliation status of all the splits for the account
being reconciled.
This was deemed incorrect, so a change was made in 3.11 where changing the
reconciliation status of a split in a transaction had no effect of other
splits in the transaction for the account being reconciled.

I wouldn't recommend running an old version like 3.10. Never upgrading until
you have to greatly increases your risk of falling foul of a security issue
(or just a bug) that may have already been fixed.

I don't upgrade immediately a new version is available, but I do after a
little while so it is likely that any major problems with a new release will
have been found and probably fixed.

It seems unusual to create different subaccounts in a bank account for
different types of expenses.
I believe it is more usual to split your income and expenses into different
income and expense accounts, and do your budgeting based on the totals of
those accounts.

Regards,
Chris Good

Message: 6
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2021 20:31:44 -0700
From: Lisa Reynoso 
To: David Carlson 
Cc: DaveC49 , Gnucash Users

Subject: Re: [GNC] Reconciliation Changes
Message-ID: <916d45e4-a319-4ab9-bfb9-fd7a6557f...@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;   charset=utf-8

Well, my computer reformatted, so I had to start over. But in almost two
decades, I started over several times, and this last time is the only time
this problem occurred. I can?t imagine that had anything to do with it. 

I?m going to look at an old hard drive I saved from a couple computers back
and see if I have an old installation file and see what it does if I do. Or
what happens if I import old files from years back (if they are still
there). I?ll let you know how it goes. 

Lisa

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 12, 2021, at 5:35 PM, David Carlson 
wrote:
> 
> ?
> Sub accounts under the same bank account are not the same as transfer s to
outside accounts. 
> 
> If I recall correctly, they must be of the same type as the parent
account.  I think that should still work as before in reconciliations.  Were
you able to import your table of accounts from an old file or did you start
over, possibly different somehow this time?
> 
> 
> 
>> On Tue, Oct 12, 2021, 7:18 PM Lisa Reynoso  wrote:
>> Okay, first, I don?t know what version I had before. It was about 2 years
ago that I downloaded it, and my hard drive was wiped, so I have no idea. 
>> 
>> Second, you completely misunderstood my problem. I understand the
reconciliation process intricately; I?ve been using it for a decade and a
half. I understand about clicking the ?include sub accounts? box; it?s the
sub account feature that turned me on to the program, since I was doing that
on paper as my mother did; a computer was so much faster, since it did most
of the math for me. I like math, but it gets tedious entering numbers in a
calculator. But I digress. 
>> 
>> There are two basic examples to illustrate. I have a checking account,
divided into various sub accounts, such as gas, groceries, clothing, school
bill, etc. When I deposit a paycheck, I split the deposit into various
accounts. Likewise when i purchase both food and toothpaste at the grocery
store; toothpaste doesn?t come from the food budget. When I want to
reconcile the checking, I used to be able to check one of those splits and
have them all highlight. So if I checked the toothpaste transaction, the
grocery charge would check as well. Of course the expense account wouldn?t
reconcile; I wasn?t referring to that. 
>> 
>> But the other example is when I transfer money within the checking
account from one sub account to another. Like my original gas to groceries
(or vice versa) analogy. In that case, when I would check the credit, the
debit would check automatically as well, and the balance on the
reconciliation would not change, because no money actually entered or left
the checking. It was just moved around within it. Now I have to check one
and then scroll down to find the other. I make several dozen of these
transactions every month, and it is tedious to have to check them both. 
>> 
>> I downloaded version 4.4 when this problem first made itself felt. I
downloaded 3.11 today, and it still doesn?t do what it used to. I have
Windows 10; I don?t know if an earlier version will work or not. 
>> 
>> Lisa
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> > On Oct 12, 2021, at 2:09 PM, davidcousen...@gmail.com wrote:
>> > 
>> > ?Lisa
>> > 
>> > It may help if you can tell us what the previous version was and 
>> > which version you have now upgraded to.
>> > 
>> > On the reconciliation setup dialog under the Ending Balance entry 
>> > there is a checkbox "Include subaccounts" which AFAIK by default is 
>> > not checked. Try