Re: [GNC] Calculating IRR of an investment account

2023-04-08 Thread Vincent Dawans
As for exporting the correct data for the XIRR function in OpenOffice Calc
or Excel, the trick is to use the account filtering feature of the
transaction report to exclude any internal transactions within the
investment account (such as reinvested dividends, etc); only external
transactions (money in money out) need to be included for the XIRR
calculation, along with (separately) adding the current value of the
account at the bottom. Which accounts need to be included or excluded
depends on your account structure and how investment contributions, income,
expenses and distributions are recorded, so it's not easy to give specific
advice without knowing that. Also worth noting that typically you have to
reverse signs on the numbers because the XIRR function expects negative
numbers for money in but positive for money out. You can just multiply by
-1 in your spreadsheet to easily do that.

Sincerely,

Vincent Dawans

On Sat, Apr 8, 2023 at 4:36 PM John Ralls  wrote:

> GnuCash doesn't even claim to have an IRR calculation, so exporting to a
> spreadsheet is the only option.
>
> The advanced portfolio report does have "rate of gain" and "rate of
> return" columns but they're really just percent return, independent of
> holding period or timing of cash flows.
>
> Regards,
> John Ralls
>
> > On Apr 8, 2023, at 3:03 PM, R Losey  wrote:
> >
> > Personally, I don't necessarily trust what some program may call the
> IRR...
> > if I wanted to calculate it, I would export the necessary data to a
> > spreadsheet and then use the spreadsheet's power to calculate it.
> >
> > On Sat, Apr 8, 2023 at 11:41 AM David Carlson <
> david.carlson@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> This thread has been hijacked and no longer ir relating to the original
> >> request about creating a report for Internal Rate of Return (IRR).
> >> I would like to see an answer to that question.
> >>
> >> On Sat, Apr 8, 2023 at 10:33 AM William Prescott  >
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Or, as another example: sites that require a phone number (maybe for
> 2FA
> >>> [second factor authentification]), but only accept US phone numbers. It
> >> is
> >>> a major pain for those of us that don't live in the US, but have
> >> extensive
> >>> dealings with US companies.
> >>>
> >>> Will
> >>>
> >>> On Apr 8, 2023, at 09:18, Michael or Penny Novack <
> >>> stepbystepf...@comcast.net> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> PS -- What makes you think commercial software is better in that
> regard?
> >>> It will be designed according to how the designers think the majority
> of
> >>> their customers would want. Choice of behavior MIGHT be provided if
> they
> >>> think the minority also a significant number. But often is not.
> >>>
> >>>  For example, I live where there is no cell service. Do you know
> >> what
> >>> percentage of websites requiring account creation REQUIRE a mobile
> number
> >>> (verification by text) vs how many provide an alternative (email of
> land
> >>> line number sent an automated call). I do. I can even recognize one
> >>> situation where I can tell more than one designer involved in the
> design
> >>> (early in the process allows use of the alternative "verify via code
> sent
> >>> by automated voice to a land line or by email" but at the completion of
> >> the
> >>> process "must enter mobile number for verification sent by text" -
> >>> insanely this is a process for setting up "paperless billing" FOR A
> LAND
> >>> LINE). The point is maybe 97% of people here in the US live where can
> >> have
> >>> a mobile, only 3% live where no service, so forget about them.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ___
> >>> gnucash-user mailing list
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> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> David Carlson
> >> ___
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> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > _
> > Richard Losey
> > rlo...@gmail.com
> > Micah 6:8
> > ___
> > gnucash-user mailing list
> > gnucash-user@gnucash.org
> > To update 

Re: [GNC] Calculating IRR of an investment account

2023-04-08 Thread John Ralls
GnuCash doesn't even claim to have an IRR calculation, so exporting to a 
spreadsheet is the only option.

The advanced portfolio report does have "rate of gain" and "rate of return" 
columns but they're really just percent return, independent of holding period 
or timing of cash flows.

Regards,
John Ralls

> On Apr 8, 2023, at 3:03 PM, R Losey  wrote:
> 
> Personally, I don't necessarily trust what some program may call the IRR...
> if I wanted to calculate it, I would export the necessary data to a
> spreadsheet and then use the spreadsheet's power to calculate it.
> 
> On Sat, Apr 8, 2023 at 11:41 AM David Carlson 
> wrote:
> 
>> This thread has been hijacked and no longer ir relating to the original
>> request about creating a report for Internal Rate of Return (IRR).
>> I would like to see an answer to that question.
>> 
>> On Sat, Apr 8, 2023 at 10:33 AM William Prescott 
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> Or, as another example: sites that require a phone number (maybe for 2FA
>>> [second factor authentification]), but only accept US phone numbers. It
>> is
>>> a major pain for those of us that don't live in the US, but have
>> extensive
>>> dealings with US companies.
>>> 
>>> Will
>>> 
>>> On Apr 8, 2023, at 09:18, Michael or Penny Novack <
>>> stepbystepf...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>> 
>>> PS -- What makes you think commercial software is better in that regard?
>>> It will be designed according to how the designers think the majority of
>>> their customers would want. Choice of behavior MIGHT be provided if they
>>> think the minority also a significant number. But often is not.
>>> 
>>>  For example, I live where there is no cell service. Do you know
>> what
>>> percentage of websites requiring account creation REQUIRE a mobile number
>>> (verification by text) vs how many provide an alternative (email of land
>>> line number sent an automated call). I do. I can even recognize one
>>> situation where I can tell more than one designer involved in the design
>>> (early in the process allows use of the alternative "verify via code sent
>>> by automated voice to a land line or by email" but at the completion of
>> the
>>> process "must enter mobile number for verification sent by text" -
>>> insanely this is a process for setting up "paperless billing" FOR A LAND
>>> LINE). The point is maybe 97% of people here in the US live where can
>> have
>>> a mobile, only 3% live where no service, so forget about them.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> gnucash-user mailing list
>>> gnucash-user@gnucash.org
>>> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
>>> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
>>> -
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>>> ___
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>>> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> David Carlson
>> ___
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>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> _
> Richard Losey
> rlo...@gmail.com
> Micah 6:8
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Re: [GNC] Calculating IRR of an investment account

2023-04-08 Thread edodd
On Sat, 8 Apr 2023 13:00:43 +0100
Graham  wrote:

> I have tried the manual without much success, and tried two different 
> AIs [ChatGPT and Nova] but both give me instructions that don't seem
> to exist, such as :

I was wondering if the AI was capable of answering questions as well as
the users.
Thanks for trying it out!

Liz
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Re: [GNC] Calculating IRR of an investment account

2023-04-08 Thread R Losey
Personally, I don't necessarily trust what some program may call the IRR...
if I wanted to calculate it, I would export the necessary data to a
spreadsheet and then use the spreadsheet's power to calculate it.

On Sat, Apr 8, 2023 at 11:41 AM David Carlson 
wrote:

> This thread has been hijacked and no longer ir relating to the original
> request about creating a report for Internal Rate of Return (IRR).
> I would like to see an answer to that question.
>
> On Sat, Apr 8, 2023 at 10:33 AM William Prescott 
> wrote:
>
> > Or, as another example: sites that require a phone number (maybe for 2FA
> > [second factor authentification]), but only accept US phone numbers. It
> is
> > a major pain for those of us that don't live in the US, but have
> extensive
> > dealings with US companies.
> >
> > Will
> >
> > On Apr 8, 2023, at 09:18, Michael or Penny Novack <
> > stepbystepf...@comcast.net> wrote:
> >
> > PS -- What makes you think commercial software is better in that regard?
> > It will be designed according to how the designers think the majority of
> > their customers would want. Choice of behavior MIGHT be provided if they
> > think the minority also a significant number. But often is not.
> >
> >   For example, I live where there is no cell service. Do you know
> what
> > percentage of websites requiring account creation REQUIRE a mobile number
> > (verification by text) vs how many provide an alternative (email of land
> > line number sent an automated call). I do. I can even recognize one
> > situation where I can tell more than one designer involved in the design
> > (early in the process allows use of the alternative "verify via code sent
> > by automated voice to a land line or by email" but at the completion of
> the
> > process "must enter mobile number for verification sent by text" -
> > insanely this is a process for setting up "paperless billing" FOR A LAND
> > LINE). The point is maybe 97% of people here in the US live where can
> have
> > a mobile, only 3% live where no service, so forget about them.
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > gnucash-user mailing list
> > gnucash-user@gnucash.org
> > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
> > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
> > -
> > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
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> >
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> >
>
>
> --
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-- 
_
Richard Losey
rlo...@gmail.com
Micah 6:8
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Re: [GNC] Calculating IRR of an investment account

2023-04-08 Thread Adrien Monteleone
I long ago turned off auto-saving drafts for that very reason. Mail.app 
on MacOS does the same. It will auto-save while you are typing at 
various stages and you'll end up with multiple drafts of the same 
in-progress message.


I consider that a bug for both apps. I see neither has been addressed in 
many, many, years.


If I need to put a message 'down' for later completion before sending, 
it costs me nothing to click the 'save draft' button compared to 
cleaning up the app's mess.


Regards,
Adrien

On 4/8/23 9:27 AM, Stan Brown wrote:

Thunderbird autosaves drafts, and they do not disappear automatically
from the Drafts folder after you send the message. You have to delete
them manually.

(It's bad design, I agree, because it leads to confusion. But there it
is: we get what we pay for.)


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Re: [GNC] Calculating IRR of an investment account

2023-04-08 Thread Adrien Monteleone
ChatGPT and other 'AI' bots are merely really fancy auto-complete. They 
produce 'plausible' text, but they have no concept of accuracy or any 
understanding of the meanings of any of the words used.


I have no fear of them because I understand that is what they are.

My fear is that others think those bots are more capable than they are, 
and thus ascribe any degree of reliance upon them.


If you have a really large data set of strings, and want various types 
of averages - they are a good use case. Everything else?—no.


Regards,
Adrien

On 4/8/23 7:00 AM, Graham wrote:
I have tried the manual without much success, and tried two different 
AIs [ChatGPT and Nova] but both give me instructions that don't seem to 
exist, such as :


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Re: [GNC] Calculating IRR of an investment account

2023-04-08 Thread David Carlson
This thread has been hijacked and no longer ir relating to the original
request about creating a report for Internal Rate of Return (IRR).
I would like to see an answer to that question.

On Sat, Apr 8, 2023 at 10:33 AM William Prescott 
wrote:

> Or, as another example: sites that require a phone number (maybe for 2FA
> [second factor authentification]), but only accept US phone numbers. It is
> a major pain for those of us that don't live in the US, but have extensive
> dealings with US companies.
>
> Will
>
> On Apr 8, 2023, at 09:18, Michael or Penny Novack <
> stepbystepf...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> PS -- What makes you think commercial software is better in that regard?
> It will be designed according to how the designers think the majority of
> their customers would want. Choice of behavior MIGHT be provided if they
> think the minority also a significant number. But often is not.
>
>   For example, I live where there is no cell service. Do you know what
> percentage of websites requiring account creation REQUIRE a mobile number
> (verification by text) vs how many provide an alternative (email of land
> line number sent an automated call). I do. I can even recognize one
> situation where I can tell more than one designer involved in the design
> (early in the process allows use of the alternative "verify via code sent
> by automated voice to a land line or by email" but at the completion of the
> process "must enter mobile number for verification sent by text" -
> insanely this is a process for setting up "paperless billing" FOR A LAND
> LINE). The point is maybe 97% of people here in the US live where can have
> a mobile, only 3% live where no service, so forget about them.
>
>
>
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-- 
David Carlson
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Re: [GNC] Calculating IRR of an investment account

2023-04-08 Thread William Prescott
Or, as another example: sites that require a phone number (maybe for 2FA 
[second factor authentification]), but only accept US phone numbers. It is a 
major pain for those of us that don't live in the US, but have extensive 
dealings with US companies.

Will

On Apr 8, 2023, at 09:18, Michael or Penny Novack  
wrote:

PS -- What makes you think commercial software is better in that regard? It 
will be designed according to how the designers think the majority of their 
customers would want. Choice of behavior MIGHT be provided if they think the 
minority also a significant number. But often is not.

  For example, I live where there is no cell service. Do you know what 
percentage of websites requiring account creation REQUIRE a mobile number 
(verification by text) vs how many provide an alternative (email of land line 
number sent an automated call). I do. I can even recognize one situation where 
I can tell more than one designer involved in the design (early in the process 
allows use of the alternative "verify via code sent by automated voice to a 
land line or by email" but at the completion of the process "must enter mobile 
number for verification sent by text" - insanely this is a process for 
setting up "paperless billing" FOR A LAND LINE). The point is maybe 97% of 
people here in the US live where can have a mobile, only 3% live where no 
service, so forget about them.



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Re: [GNC] Calculating IRR of an investment account

2023-04-08 Thread Michael or Penny Novack

On 4/8/2023 10:27 AM, Stan Brown wrote:

Thunderbird autosaves drafts, and they do not disappear automatically
from the Drafts folder after you send the message. You have to delete
them manually.

(It's bad design, I agree, because it leads to confusion. But there it
is: we get what we pay for.)


Arguable --- I can see the case for both behaviors (delete draft after 
sending edited draft OR leave until explicit delete). The first, if not 
the action, can cause accidental resending (thinking not done yet) but 
the second can save a great deal of work when you are wanting to send 
multiple very slightly different versions of an email << eg: 
personalized for each recipient >>. Yes, there are other ways to do that 
(copy/paste from elsewhere the constant, pre edited text).


Michael D Novack

PS -- What makes you think commercial software is better in that regard? 
It will be designed according to how the designers think the majority of 
their customers would want. Choice of behavior MIGHT be provided if they 
think the minority also a significant number. But often is not.


  For example, I live where there is no cell service. Do you know 
what percentage of websites requiring account creation REQUIRE a mobile 
number (verification by text) vs how many provide an alternative (email 
of land line number sent an automated call). I do. I can even recognize 
one situation where I can tell more than one designer involved in the 
design (early in the process allows use of the alternative "verify via 
code sent by automated voice to a land line or by email" but at the 
completion of the process "must enter mobile number for verification 
sent by text" - insanely this is a process for setting up "paperless 
billing" FOR A LAND LINE). The point is maybe 97% of people here in the 
US live where can have a mobile, only 3% live where no service, so 
forget about them.




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Re: [GNC] Calculating IRR of an investment account

2023-04-08 Thread Stan Brown
Thunderbird autosaves drafts, and they do not disappear automatically
from the Drafts folder after you send the message. You have to delete
them manually.

(It's bad design, I agree, because it leads to confusion. But there it
is: we get what we pay for.)

Stan Brown
Tehachapi, CA, USA
https://BrownMath.com

On 2023-04-08 07:16, Graham wrote:
> On 08/04/2023 13:24, Stan Brown wrote:
>> Please don't post the same thing twice. This seems to be happening more
>> and more often in the last few weeks.
>>
>> (And if you didn't post it twice, but it's a glitch in the mailing-list
>> software, my apologies.)
> 
> I apologise. Maybe it is a Thunderbird glitch. The 'draft'was still
> active in the draft folder so I assumed it had not been sent.
> 
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[GNC] Calculating IRR of an investment account

2023-04-08 Thread Graham
I have tried the manual without much success, and tried two different 
AIs [ChatGPT and Nova] but both give me instructions that don't seem to 
exist, such as :


1. Click on the "Reports" menu and select "New Report".
2. In the "Report Type" dropdown, select "Transaction".
3. Click on the "Add Column" button to add the columns you want to
   include in your report. For example, you could add "Date",
   "Description", "Amount", and "Memo" columns.
4. Click on the "Grouping" dropdown and select "Date".
5. In the "Filter" section, set the date range for the period you want
   to calculate the IRR for.
6. Click on the "Customize Report" button to open the report
   customization panel.
7. In the "Computation" section, click on the "Add" button to add a new
   computation to your report.
8. In the "Computation" dropdown, select "Internal Rate of Return (IRR)".

New report I take to be a new transaction report, but I can't see any 
add column button, customize report or computation options.


Am I missing something, or is AI as stupid as me? (Win 10, Gnucash 5.0)


--
--
Cheerio,

Graham
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Re: [GNC] Calculating IRR of an investment account

2023-04-08 Thread Stan Brown

On 2023-04-08 05:02, Graham wrote:
> I have tried the manual without much success, and tried two different
> AIs [ChatGPT and Nova] but both give me instructions that don't seem to
> exist, such as :
> 
> 1. Click on the "Reports" menu and select "New Report".
> 2. In the "Report Type" dropdown, select "Transaction".
> 3. Click on the "Add Column" button to add the columns you want to
>    include in your report. For example, you could add "Date",
>    "Description", "Amount", and "Memo" columns.
> 4. Click on the "Grouping" dropdown and select "Date".
> 5. In the "Filter" section, set the date range for the period you want
>    to calculate the IRR for.
> 6. Click on the "Customize Report" button to open the report
>    customization panel.
> 7. In the "Computation" section, click on the "Add" button to add a new
>    computation to your report.
> 8. In the "Computation" dropdown, select "Internal Rate of Return (IRR)".
> 
> New report I take to be a new transaction report, but I can't see any
> add column button, customize report or computation options.
> 
> Am I missing something, or is AI as stupid as me? (Win 10, Gnucash 5.0)

AI lives up to its adjective, but not so well to its noun. A recent
story detailed "hallucinations" in AI -- for instance, you could ask it
for the record holder in walking across the English Channel and get an
answer that seemed authoritative, except obviously it wasn't.


Stan Brown
Tehachapi, CA, USA
https://BrownMath.com
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Re: [GNC] Calculating IRR of an investment account

2023-04-08 Thread G R Hewitt
The clue is in the name - Artificial Intelligence (AI)

adjective: artificial:
made or produced by human beings rather than occurring naturally,
especially as a copy of something natural.

Fear not, AI is much stupider.


On Sat, 8 Apr 2023 at 13:01, Graham  wrote:

> I have tried the manual without much success, and tried two different
> AIs [ChatGPT and Nova] but both give me instructions that don't seem to
> exist, such as :
>
>  1. Click on the "Reports" menu and select "New Report".
>  2. In the "Report Type" dropdown, select "Transaction".
>  3. Click on the "Add Column" button to add the columns you want to
> include in your report. For example, you could add "Date",
> "Description", "Amount", and "Memo" columns.
>  4. Click on the "Grouping" dropdown and select "Date".
>  5. In the "Filter" section, set the date range for the period you want
> to calculate the IRR for.
>  6. Click on the "Customize Report" button to open the report
> customization panel.
>  7. In the "Computation" section, click on the "Add" button to add a new
> computation to your report.
>  8. In the "Computation" dropdown, select "Internal Rate of Return (IRR)".
>
> New report I take to be a new transaction report, but I can't see any
> add column button, customize report or computation options.
>
> Am I missing something, or is AI as stupid as me? (Win 10, Gnucash 5.0)
>
>
> --
> --
> Cheerio,
>
> Graham
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[GNC] Calculating IRR of an investment account

2023-04-08 Thread Graham
I have tried the manual without much success, and tried two different 
AIs [ChatGPT and Nova] but both give me instructions that don't seem to 
exist, such as :


1. Click on the "Reports" menu and select "New Report".
2. In the "Report Type" dropdown, select "Transaction".
3. Click on the "Add Column" button to add the columns you want to
   include in your report. For example, you could add "Date",
   "Description", "Amount", and "Memo" columns.
4. Click on the "Grouping" dropdown and select "Date".
5. In the "Filter" section, set the date range for the period you want
   to calculate the IRR for.
6. Click on the "Customize Report" button to open the report
   customization panel.
7. In the "Computation" section, click on the "Add" button to add a new
   computation to your report.
8. In the "Computation" dropdown, select "Internal Rate of Return (IRR)".

New report I take to be a new transaction report, but I can't see any 
add column button, customize report or computation options.


Am I missing something, or is AI as stupid as me? (Win 10, Gnucash 5.0)


--
--
Cheerio,

Graham
___
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[GNC] Calculating IRR of an investment account

2023-04-08 Thread Graham
I have tried the manual without much success, and tried two different 
AIs [ChatGPT and Nova] but both give me instructions that don't seem to 
exist, such as :


1. Click on the "Reports" menu and select "New Report".
2. In the "Report Type" dropdown, select "Transaction".
3. Click on the "Add Column" button to add the columns you want to
   include in your report. For example, you could add "Date",
   "Description", "Amount", and "Memo" columns.
4. Click on the "Grouping" dropdown and select "Date".
5. In the "Filter" section, set the date range for the period you want
   to calculate the IRR for.
6. Click on the "Customize Report" button to open the report
   customization panel.
7. In the "Computation" section, click on the "Add" button to add a new
   computation to your report.
8. In the "Computation" dropdown, select "Internal Rate of Return (IRR)".

New report I take to be a new transaction report, but I can't see any 
add column button, customize report or computation options.


Am I missing something, or is AI as stupid as me? (Win 10, Gnucash 5.0)


--
--
Cheerio,

Graham
___
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gnucash-user@gnucash.org
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Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
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