Re: [GNC] GNUcash 5 - Trial Balance
On 4/28/2023 2:59 AM, Chris Bastock via gnucash-user wrote: Thanks for all the input. I am aware that both TB and Balance sheet are snapshots on a particular date and of the respective uses of both of them. Personally I’m happy with the TB report and I do it periodically throughout the year. I guess my reason for asking was only because my accountant had asked specifically for a TB covering only the financial year that they were auditing the accounts for. The TB report options are misleading as it does offer a date range. Maybe the only solution to keeping my accountant happy is to close the books each year (although according to the GNUCash manual this isn’t necessary). The zero balances I was referring to were more to do with accounts that I just don’t use. So the take home for me is that I need to clean up my account tree! If you consider how "trial balance" used to be used, a "date range" sort of makes sense. In the old days, after a trial balance, a double line was drawn under each account. The meaning of which was "in balance as of this point". When searching for an OOB error, you didn't need to search before a double line. It was in balance at that point, so any OOB now has to be an entry after that point. Is the date range offered perhaps trying to mimic that? Like I said, I have not (bothered to) run a "trial balance" since BEFORE switching to gnucash. A computerized bookkeeping application simply isn't going to make the sort of errors a trial balance would disclose (and help us find*). If there is nothing in Imbalance or Orphan, the books are in balance. Yes, we could have made errors of the "put into wrong account" sort but that would not be disclosed by a trial balance. The errors a trial balance will disclose are things like the all too common transposition of digits during manual posting from the journal to the ledger. The computer simply won't make that sort of error. Michael D Novack * Examples (we had to learn all sorts of tricks like this) So the trial balance is out of balance? By how much? Is the difference divisible by 9? Then look for transposed digits. ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] GNUcash 5 - Trial Balance
Thanks for all the input. I am aware that both TB and Balance sheet are snapshots on a particular date and of the respective uses of both of them. Personally I’m happy with the TB report and I do it periodically throughout the year. I guess my reason for asking was only because my accountant had asked specifically for a TB covering only the financial year that they were auditing the accounts for. The TB report options are misleading as it does offer a date range. Maybe the only solution to keeping my accountant happy is to close the books each year (although according to the GNUCash manual this isn’t necessary). The zero balances I was referring to were more to do with accounts that I just don’t use. So the take home for me is that I need to clean up my account tree! Thanks everyone, appreciate the input and support. Cheers. Chris Sent from my iPhone > On 28 Apr 2023, at 05:19, Liz wrote: > > On Thu, 27 Apr 2023 16:44:17 +0100 > Chris Bastock via gnucash-user wrote: > >> I also not that on the TB there is no way to filter for accounts with >> a zero balance. This means manually removing them. > > Is this really desirable? If I was your auditor, I would want to see > accounts with a zero balance. They may have had a balance in a previous > period. > > > Liz ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] GNUcash 5 - Trial Balance
On Thu, 27 Apr 2023 16:44:17 +0100 Chris Bastock via gnucash-user wrote: > I also not that on the TB there is no way to filter for accounts with > a zero balance. This means manually removing them. Is this really desirable? If I was your auditor, I would want to see accounts with a zero balance. They may have had a balance in a previous period. Liz ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] GNUcash 5 - Trial Balance PS
PS --- And in the "old days" we used to do a trial balance BEFORE closing the books because wanting to be sure the books were in balance at that point, and not having to try to find/fix the errors after. Of course also done at periodic intervals to make sure any errors fixed between now and the last time done. So you didn't have to search for the error before the double lines (drawn in all ledger accounts to mark that point). Michael ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] GNUcash 5 - Trial Balance
On 4/27/2023 12:54 PM, smit...@smith54.karoo.co.uk wrote: I would recommend going to tools and using Close Book to remove the previous years TB P figures. Then re-run the TB. Regards, David I think this might be the place for a bit of double entry bookkeeping theory/terminology and how the two reports "Trail Balance" and "Balance Sheet" differ (as well as how they are the same). Same: Both are run for a "point in time" (they have a date, not a date range) Both are checking that the sum of all the credits equals the sum of all the debits << in other words, that the ledger is in balance >> Different: The "Trail Balance" is for ALL ledger accounts, both "standing" and "temporary". There are no virtual accounts involved. The "Balance Sheet" is for all the "standing accounts" PLUS a virtual account named something like "retained gains or losses" which will appear under equity and the value of which will be the net of all the "temporary accounts" (accounts of type ":income" or "expense" --- these are actually of fundamental type equity) Those differences and similarities for books that are "open". If the books have been closed by a "close the books"operation the differences between them goes away, especially if the display option is to leave out accounts with zero balance (( all the income and expense accounts will be zero and the "retained" amount will be zero << if virtual -- some entities like corporations might have an explicit "retained" account if allowed to pay dividends only out of retained earnings >> Michael D Novack ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] GNUcash 5 - Trial Balance
I would recommend going to tools and using Close Book to remove the previous years TB P figures. Then re-run the TB. Regards, David -Original Message- From: gnucash-user On Behalf Of Michael or Penny Novack Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2023 5:43 PM To: gnucash-user@gnucash.org Subject: Re: [GNC] GNUcash 5 - Trial Balance On 4/27/2023 11:44 AM, Chris Bastock via gnucash-user wrote: > Hi Hive Mind > Apologies if asked before, I have searched and searched but can’t seem to > find a definitive answer. > > I need to send a TB to my accountant and - as with last year - when I run the > report I get a report that covers the entire period of my books I.e from day > 1. This is despite setting the date range as either ‘start of accounting > period’ to ‘End of accounting period’ (and yes I have checked in preferences > that the dates are Corte to the previous financial year 22-23) OR the > specific date range that covers the accounting period. Is there anyway to get > a TB for the specific period. Am I doing something wrong and missing a > setting somewhere else? > I am a little confused. You seem to be talking about a "trial balance" and a "date range"/ AFAIK, a trial balance is like the balance sheet. It would have a date, not a date range. Michael D Novack PS: Since having begun using computer apps for bookkeeping, I have never bothered with a "trial balance". Oh yes I remember those well, but back in the days when I was doing bookkeeping pen and ink on paper. Easy to make mistakes copying numbers. I have not encountered a single "posting error" when done by computer instead of human eye and hand. By which I mane that if something is ever entered out of balance, there will be a non-zero amount in the special account Imbalance. ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] GNUcash 5 - Trial Balance
On 4/27/2023 11:44 AM, Chris Bastock via gnucash-user wrote: Hi Hive Mind Apologies if asked before, I have searched and searched but can’t seem to find a definitive answer. I need to send a TB to my accountant and - as with last year - when I run the report I get a report that covers the entire period of my books I.e from day 1. This is despite setting the date range as either ‘start of accounting period’ to ‘End of accounting period’ (and yes I have checked in preferences that the dates are Corte to the previous financial year 22-23) OR the specific date range that covers the accounting period. Is there anyway to get a TB for the specific period. Am I doing something wrong and missing a setting somewhere else? I am a little confused. You seem to be talking about a "trial balance" and a "date range"/ AFAIK, a trial balance is like the balance sheet. It would have a date, not a date range. Michael D Novack PS: Since having begun using computer apps for bookkeeping, I have never bothered with a "trial balance". Oh yes I remember those well, but back in the days when I was doing bookkeeping pen and ink on paper. Easy to make mistakes copying numbers. I have not encountered a single "posting error" when done by computer instead of human eye and hand. By which I mane that if something is ever entered out of balance, there will be a non-zero amount in the special account Imbalance. ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
[GNC] GNUcash 5 - Trial Balance
Hi Hive Mind Apologies if asked before, I have searched and searched but can’t seem to find a definitive answer. I need to send a TB to my accountant and - as with last year - when I run the report I get a report that covers the entire period of my books I.e from day 1. This is despite setting the date range as either ‘start of accounting period’ to ‘End of accounting period’ (and yes I have checked in preferences that the dates are Corte to the previous financial year 22-23) OR the specific date range that covers the accounting period. Is there anyway to get a TB for the specific period. Am I doing something wrong and missing a setting somewhere else? I also not that on the TB there is no way to filter for accounts with a zero balance. This means manually removing them. Any help appreciated and apologies again if I’m making rookie errors and missing something obvious. Cheers All. Chris Sent from my iPhone ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
