[GNC] How to regularly use two currencies
How to regularly use two currencies I would very much appreciate if somebody could help me to solve a problem. In GnuCash 2.6.19,on a Windows 10 computer, I made the following arrangements – but maybe my assumptions were wrong, as I cannot see the results I had hope for. I do not have much experience, so I dare to ask for advice and help. I live in Cambodia, where it is usual all over the country to use two currencies regularly: the Cambodian Riel, and the US$ (at normally 4000 Riel per Dollar). (In Tools, Price Editor, I have set Khmer Riels as the second currency in addition to US$.) I live on a farm, where, among other things, we produce, sell, and buy vegetables. Under Income, I created an account FARM, and under FARM an account SHOP, and under shop a Placeholder account VEGETABLES (currency USD). Under VEGETABLES I created a VEG$ sub-account for business in US dollars, and another sub-account VEGR for business in Riels. Now I enter all business actions into VEG$ or VEGR, either as Income or Charge, according to the currency used. After some entries, I can see the calculated result (gain or loss) in US$ in the Placeholder account VEGETABLES. I had hoped that the entries in VEGR would be transferred into US$ and also be part of the reported results in the placeholder account VEGETABLES – but this is not the case. Now my kind request: 1) please tell me if there is a way to get also the Riel values reflected in the Placeholder account above the VEGR; I had assumed that this should be possible with Placeholder accounts which are “intended to be used for hierarchical organization of accounts” - but maybe not when different currencies are involved? 2) please give me advice if all this is wrong – how could I handle our situation? Every purchase and sale has to be recorded in one of the two currencies. My hope was to get the overall results in US dollars in this way – and the goal remains the same: at the end of he day/week/month, I want to know how we did manage – all calculated in US$. Thanks for any help. Norbert KLEIN ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] How to regularly use two currencies
Hi Norbert, I don't know the accounting customs of your country, so first a question: Is it common in Cambodia to *account* in two currencies as well or only to *pay* in two currencies ? Or put differently - do you want to track your income in the two currencies or just in one (hence the placeholder account) ? But you do want to be able to accept/make payments in the two currencies ? If you only want to accept/make payments in two currencies but just track it in one, the account structure would be slightly different. If you want to track your income in multiple currencies as you have set up, you'll need to make sure you have entries in your price database for conversion rates between USD and Cambodia Riel. Or more generally between your book's currency and the foreign currencies you trade in. Regards, Geert Op vrijdag 29 juni 2018 12:28:00 CEST schreef Norbert Klein: > How to regularly use two currencies > > I would very much appreciate if somebody could help me to solve a problem. > > In GnuCash 2.6.19,on a Windows 10 computer, I made the following > arrangements – but maybe my assumptions were wrong, as I cannot see the > results I had hope for. I do not have much experience, so I dare to ask > for advice and help. > > I live in Cambodia, where it is usual all over the country to use two > currencies regularly: the Cambodian Riel, and the US$ (at normally 4000 > Riel per Dollar). > > (In Tools, Price Editor, I have set Khmer Riels as the second currency > in addition to US$.) > > I live on a farm, where, among other things, we produce, sell, and buy > vegetables. > > Under Income, I created an account FARM, and under FARM an account SHOP, > and under shop a Placeholder account VEGETABLES (currency USD). Under > VEGETABLES I created a VEG$ sub-account for business in US dollars, and > another sub-account VEGR for business in Riels. > > Now I enter all business actions into VEG$ or VEGR, either as Income or > Charge, according to the currency used. > > After some entries, I can see the calculated result (gain or loss) in > US$ in the Placeholder account VEGETABLES. > > I had hoped that the entries in VEGR would be transferred into US$ and > also be part of the reported results in the placeholder account > VEGETABLES – but this is not the case. > > Now my kind request: > > 1) please tell me if there is a way to get also the Riel values > reflected in the Placeholder account above the VEGR; I had assumed that > this should be possible with Placeholder accounts which are “intended to > be used for hierarchical organization of accounts” - but maybe not when > different currencies are involved? > > 2) please give me advice if all this is wrong – how could I handle our > situation? Every purchase and sale has to be recorded in one of the two > currencies. > > My hope was to get the overall results in US dollars in this way – and > the goal remains the same: at the end of he day/week/month, I want to > know how we did manage – all calculated in US$. > > Thanks for any help. > > Norbert KLEIN > > ___ > gnucash-user mailing list > gnucash-user@gnucash.org > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user > If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see > https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. ___ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. - Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
Re: [GNC] How to regularly use two currencies
Thanks, Geert, I will respond between the lines. On 29.6.2018 17:58, Geert Janssens wrote: Hi Norbert, I don't know the accounting customs of your country, There are no general accounting customs set - everybody does what seems to cover the needs of he place. so first a question: Is it common in Cambodia to *account* in two currencies as well or only to *pay* in two currencies ? In daily life, we may *pay* in either of the two currencies - it is only customary to make payments in Riel for small and in US$ for larger amounts. But again, there is no general definition what is "larger" - it is easier to handle bigger "values" in US$, where 1 US$ corresponds to roughly 4000 Riels. We may ask in our shop - as an example - for a price of US$ 4.00, but the person may hand over 16,000 Riel. Or the other way round. I do not know if there are many countries with such a situation. But here it is totally flexible - every person, for every purchase, may choose one way, and the next minute for another purchase the other way. So the answer is: BOTH - we pay in two currencies, but we also have to account in two currencies. So in the shop we have a Riel cash box, and a US$ cash box, and while we enter for each purchase an amount - and I have to enter the amount either into the "Cash in wallet $" or into the "Cash in wallet Riel" - because we have all the time changes in both cash boxes. And for the same purchase I enter the amount either into the sub-account "Vegetables $" or "Vegetables R" - both under ONE Placeholder account "Vegetables" (set for US$) Or put differently - do you want to track your income in the two currencies or just in one (hence the placeholder account) ? For the actual conducting of purchases, I am tracking the US$ purchases and the Riel purchases separately - but I put both under ONE placeholder because I am not only interested in individual purchases, but also in the overall income (or loss) situation. I had assumed to have a common placeholder would serve this purpose. Maybe this was wrong. But you do want to be able to accept/make payments in the two currencies ? Yes - it depends on the buyer - depending of which of the two currencies he of she has in their purse. If you only want to accept/make payments in two currencies but just track it in one, the account structure would be slightly different. "track it only in one" - for the actual operation of the shop this is not possible. I have to know - at the end of the day - how many US$, and how many Riel, should be in the cash boxes. If you want to track your income in multiple currencies as you have set up, you'll need to make sure you have entries in your price database for conversion rates between USD and Cambodia Riel. In my former mail, I had said: "(In Tools, Price Editor, I have set Khmer Riels as the second currency in addition to US$.)" - saying that 1 US$ corresponds to 4000 Riel, with hardly any fluctuation. Any more to do? But while I have to keep track of the actual cash in the cash boxes, at certain times (daily, weekly, monthly etc.) I also need to know "how we did as a business" and this should say something in US$ (for all the activities which did happen in both currencies). Or more generally between your book's currency and the foreign currencies you trade in. Well, I do not feel that "we trade in a foreign currency" - both currencies co-exist here in everybody's wallet. Te bill from the electricity company comes in Riel, the bill from the ISP comes in US$ - etc. So what else can you please suggest to me to do? Really many thanks, Norbert Regards, Geert Op vrijdag 29 juni 2018 12:28:00 CEST schreef Norbert Klein: How to regularly use two currencies I would very much appreciate if somebody could help me to solve a problem. In GnuCash 2.6.19,on a Windows 10 computer, I made the following arrangements – but maybe my assumptions were wrong, as I cannot see the results I had hope for. I do not have much experience, so I dare to ask for advice and help. I live in Cambodia, where it is usual all over the country to use two currencies regularly: the Cambodian Riel, and the US$ (at normally 4000 Riel per Dollar). (In Tools, Price Editor, I have set Khmer Riels as the second currency in addition to US$.) I live on a farm, where, among other things, we produce, sell, and buy vegetables. Under Income, I created an account FARM, and under FARM an account SHOP, and under shop a Placeholder account VEGETABLES (currency USD). Under VEGETABLES I created a VEG$ sub-account for business in US dollars, and another sub-account VEGR for business in Riels. Now I enter all business actions into VEG$ or VEGR, either as Income or Charge, according to the currency used. After some entries, I can see the calculated result (gain or loss) in US$ in the Placeholder account VEGETABLES. I had hoped that the entries in VEGR would be transferred into US$ and also be part of the reported results in
Re: [GNC] How to regularly use two currencies
Hi Norbert, While you seem to think you want to account in multiple currencies, your replies so far all suggest you only want to track payments in multiple currencies. I read these requirements: Quote 1: "I have to know - at the end of the day - how many US$, and how many Riel, should be in the cash boxes." Quote 2: "But while I have to keep track of the actual cash in the cash boxes, at certain times (daily, weekly, monthly etc.) I also need to know "how we did as a business" and this should say something in US$ (for all the activities which did happen in both currencies)." So essentially this says you want to keep track of two cash boxes: one in US$ and one in Riel. Yet in the end you estimate your business in US$. So your income and expense accounts should only exist in US$, while in your assets you will can two cash accounts: one in US$ and one in Riel. When a customer pays you in Riel, you make a transaction from your Riel cash box account to your single income account (which is in US$) and apply the exchange rate from Riel to US$ to that transaction. By default gnucash will ask you for this exchange rate. If a customer pays in US$ you create a transaction from your US$ cash box account to your income account. As the currencies match there's no conversion rate to apply. The same goes if you pay for expenses or goods to a supplier. If you pay in Riel you create a transaction from the Riel cash box account to the appropriate expense account (which is always in US$). If you pay in US$ the money goes out of your US$ cash box account into the (same) US$ expense account. That will give you all the information you request: Do you want to know what's in your cash boxes ? Check the appropriate cash box account or generate a report over it. Do you want to know how you did as a business ? Generate a report over your income/expense accounts which are in US$. Unless you have other requirements you didn't mention I don't think you need the parent/multi-currency-subaccount structure in your income and expense accounts as you have currently set up. And it will probably simplify your accounting if you could do without. Regards, Geert Op zaterdag 30 juni 2018 11:58:51 CEST schreef Norbert Klein: > Thanks, Geert, > > I will respond between the lines. > > On 29.6.2018 17:58, Geert Janssens wrote: > > Hi Norbert, > > > > I don't know the accounting customs of your country, > > There are no general accounting customs set - everybody does what seems > to cover the needs of he place. > > > so first a question: > > Is it common in Cambodia to *account* in two currencies as well or only to > > *pay* in two currencies ? > > In daily life, we may *pay* in either of the two currencies - it is only > customary to make payments in Riel for small and in US$ for larger > amounts. But again, there is no general definition what is "larger" - it > is easier to handle bigger "values" in US$, where 1 US$ corresponds to > roughly 4000 Riels. > > We may ask in our shop - as an example - for a price of US$ 4.00, but > the person may hand over 16,000 Riel. Or the other way round. I do not > know if there are many countries with such a situation. But here it is > totally flexible - every person, for every purchase, may choose one way, > and the next minute for another purchase the other way. > > So the answer is: BOTH - we pay in two currencies, but we also have to > account in two currencies. > > So in the shop we have a Riel cash box, and a US$ cash box, and while we > enter for each purchase an amount - and I have to enter the amount > either into the "Cash in wallet $" or into the "Cash in wallet Riel" - > because we have all the time changes in both cash boxes. And for the > same purchase I enter the amount either into the sub-account "Vegetables > $" or "Vegetables R" - both under ONE Placeholder account "Vegetables" > (set for US$) > > > Or put differently - do you want to track your income in the two > > currencies or just in one (hence the placeholder account) ? > > For the actual conducting of purchases, I am tracking the US$ purchases > and the Riel purchases separately - but I put both under ONE placeholder > because I am not only interested in individual purchases, but also in > the overall income (or loss) situation. I had assumed to have a common > placeholder would serve this purpose. Maybe this was wrong. > > > But you do want to be able to > > accept/make payments in the two currencies ? > > Yes - it depends on the buyer - depending of which of the two currencies > he of she has in their purse. > > > If you only want to accept/make payments in two currencies but just track > > it in one, the account structure would be slightly different. > > "track it only in one" - for the actual operation of the shop this is > not possible. I have to know - at the end of the day - how many US$, > and how many Riel, should be in the cash boxes. > > > If you want to track your income in multi
Re: [GNC] How to regularly use two currencies
Thanks, Geert, for you clear and specific suggestions. I think they will result in what I need - I will try to implement it and will let you (and gnucash-user@gnucash.org) know after some days. There will be - as far as I can see now - only one additional procedure necessary (and a short additional time) for every shop action: to do the transaction from Riel to US$. But that is OK if all the other results will be what we need. Thanks again for thinking through our special Cambodian "regularly two currencies" situation. Norbert = On 30.6.2018 17:56, Geert Janssens wrote: Hi Norbert, While you seem to think you want to account in multiple currencies, your replies so far all suggest you only want to track payments in multiple currencies. I read these requirements: Quote 1: "I have to know - at the end of the day - how many US$, and how many Riel, should be in the cash boxes." Quote 2: "But while I have to keep track of the actual cash in the cash boxes, at certain times (daily, weekly, monthly etc.) I also need to know "how we did as a business" and this should say something in US$ (for all the activities which did happen in both currencies)." So essentially this says you want to keep track of two cash boxes: one in US$ and one in Riel. Yet in the end you estimate your business in US$. So your income and expense accounts should only exist in US$, while in your assets you will can two cash accounts: one in US$ and one in Riel. When a customer pays you in Riel, you make a transaction from your Riel cash box account to your single income account (which is in US$) and apply the exchange rate from Riel to US$ to that transaction. By default gnucash will ask you for this exchange rate. If a customer pays in US$ you create a transaction from your US$ cash box account to your income account. As the currencies match there's no conversion rate to apply. The same goes if you pay for expenses or goods to a supplier. If you pay in Riel you create a transaction from the Riel cash box account to the appropriate expense account (which is always in US$). If you pay in US$ the money goes out of your US$ cash box account into the (same) US$ expense account. That will give you all the information you request: Do you want to know what's in your cash boxes ? Check the appropriate cash box account or generate a report over it. Do you want to know how you did as a business ? Generate a report over your income/expense accounts which are in US$. Unless you have other requirements you didn't mention I don't think you need the parent/multi-currency-subaccount structure in your income and expense accounts as you have currently set up. And it will probably simplify your accounting if you could do without. Regards, Geert Op zaterdag 30 juni 2018 11:58:51 CEST schreef Norbert Klein: Thanks, Geert, I will respond between the lines. On 29.6.2018 17:58, Geert Janssens wrote: Hi Norbert, I don't know the accounting customs of your country, There are no general accounting customs set - everybody does what seems to cover the needs of he place. so first a question: Is it common in Cambodia to *account* in two currencies as well or only to *pay* in two currencies ? In daily life, we may *pay* in either of the two currencies - it is only customary to make payments in Riel for small and in US$ for larger amounts. But again, there is no general definition what is "larger" - it is easier to handle bigger "values" in US$, where 1 US$ corresponds to roughly 4000 Riels. We may ask in our shop - as an example - for a price of US$ 4.00, but the person may hand over 16,000 Riel. Or the other way round. I do not know if there are many countries with such a situation. But here it is totally flexible - every person, for every purchase, may choose one way, and the next minute for another purchase the other way. So the answer is: BOTH - we pay in two currencies, but we also have to account in two currencies. So in the shop we have a Riel cash box, and a US$ cash box, and while we enter for each purchase an amount - and I have to enter the amount either into the "Cash in wallet $" or into the "Cash in wallet Riel" - because we have all the time changes in both cash boxes. And for the same purchase I enter the amount either into the sub-account "Vegetables $" or "Vegetables R" - both under ONE Placeholder account "Vegetables" (set for US$) Or put differently - do you want to track your income in the two currencies or just in one (hence the placeholder account) ? For the actual conducting of purchases, I am tracking the US$ purchases and the Riel purchases separately - but I put both under ONE placeholder because I am not only interested in individual purchases, but also in the overall income (or loss) situation. I had assumed to have a common placeholder would serve this purpose. Maybe this was wrong. But you do want to be able to accept/make payments in the two currencies ? Yes - it depends on the buyer - depending o