Re: [GNC] Is there a way to handle same-named GnuCash files sensibly?

2022-05-05 Thread Adrien Monteleone

XCIF is your friend!

You can back-date the meta for those images and scans with something 
like `exiftool`. No definitive word of if it runs on Linux, but it does 
on MacOS and other Unix systems.


Otherwise there is a web implementation: https://exif.tools

Regards,
Adrien

On 5/5/22 11:39 AM, Chris Green wrote:

On Thu, May 05, 2022 at 10:25:08AM -0400, Michael or Penny Novack wrote:


So yes, I look at dates in file names as a very good thing. If like me you
had lived through that "hell week" trying to get caught back up you would
too.


I agree to an extent, it's just that the 'date as part of filename' in
my case is in the directory structure rather than the file name.  It's
not just for GnuCash and other similar sorts of things.  I have my
photo collcetion in a decade/year/month/day directory hierarchy.

So photos I took on 24th March this year are in:-

 /home/chris/pictures/2020s/2022/03/24

... and I can very easily find pictures I took on my school summer
holidays in the 1960s, and everywhere in between.



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Re: [GNC] Is there a way to handle same-named GnuCash files sensibly?

2022-05-05 Thread David T. via gnucash-user
If it's typing characters that has you bothered, rename "building.gnucash" 
"bldg.xgc", and associate xgc with GnuCash in your OS (xgc appears to only 
be used by one gaming platform). You'll save hundreds of keystrokes...

On May 5, 2022 4:09:17 AM EDT, Chris Green  wrote:
>On Wed, May 04, 2022 at 07:18:32PM -0400, Michael or Penny Novack wrote:
>> 
>> > Yes, I noticed too that there a files with a number added to the base
>> > name, e.g.:-
>> > 
>> >  building.gnucash.gcm
>> >  building.gnucash_2.gcm
>> > 
>> > ... but I'm not sure that it's a perfect system.
>> > 
>> > I have reverted to having the year as part of the file name and a
>> > wrapper script that finds the data file corresponding to the year
>> > directory I'm in.
>> > 
>> UH ... just because you as a human consider abcd and abcd_3 to be the same
>> name misses the point that they ARE different file names as far as the
>> computer is concerned, as different as you consider Fred and Freda different
>> names
>> 
>Yes, I do realise that, I was just pointing out what GnuCash appears
>to do if you have two different data files (in different directories)
>with the same name.  I've never had a data file called
>building.gnucash_2.gnucash so (I assume) GnuCash has created that file
>when it found there was already a building.gnucash.gcm file for
>*another* data file.
>
>
>> However, including the year in the name when in fact these are :the same
>> file except for a different year is an EXCELLENT way to go
>> 
>Yes, except that it does make for rather long filenames.  I'd really
>be happiest if my GnuCash 'building' bank account data file was simply
>called 'building'.  It's in a directory called ~/pcc/2022 which tells
>me that it's Parochial Parish Council data for 2022.
>
>-- 
>Chris Green
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Re: [GNC] Is there a way to handle same-named GnuCash files sensibly?

2022-05-05 Thread Chris Green
On Thu, May 05, 2022 at 10:25:08AM -0400, Michael or Penny Novack wrote:
> 
> So yes, I look at dates in file names as a very good thing. If like me you
> had lived through that "hell week" trying to get caught back up you would
> too.
> 
I agree to an extent, it's just that the 'date as part of filename' in
my case is in the directory structure rather than the file name.  It's
not just for GnuCash and other similar sorts of things.  I have my
photo collcetion in a decade/year/month/day directory hierarchy.

So photos I took on 24th March this year are in:-

/home/chris/pictures/2020s/2022/03/24

... and I can very easily find pictures I took on my school summer
holidays in the 1960s, and everywhere in between.

-- 
Chris Green
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Re: [GNC] Is there a way to handle same-named GnuCash files sensibly?

2022-05-05 Thread Michael or Penny Novack

Yes, except that it does make for rather long filenames.  I'd really
be happiest if my GnuCash 'building' bank account data file was simply
called 'building'.  It's in a directory called ~/pcc/2022 which tells
me that it's Parochial Parish Council data for 2022.

It is probably because of my decades in the cypher mines (and working 
under mainframe OSs) that I am seeing "file name" differently that you.


I see ALL file names as "long" because the FULL NAME of files IS long. 
Most modern OSs allow you a "shortcut" in specifying file names by 
allowing you to specify being in a directory (aka file folder) and then 
you specify the "name" as from that point outward. In other words, you 
don't have to include in the file name you specify the path of that 
directory. Everything in that directory has THAT part of the (full) name 
in common.


It's also why I see being able to HAVE long file names (the part we 
usually see) as good/freedom since back in those days not allowed to be 
more than 8 characters.in any part of the name. It In other words, why I 
consider being able to have long file names a benefit, not a curse.


Dates as part of the names? Well once upon a time one at of the largest 
"financials" in the world somebody goofed and a previous week's backup 
of a file was reloaded (they used cycle names, A, B, C, etc. so all 
files for the A run had an .A. in a name (in the file system of this OS 
"." not "/" to separate parts of path). So all the jobs in the A run, 
the B run, the C run, etc had the file names correct for that run. BUT 
-- the names repeated in a cycle so a mistake of the sort I described 
was possible.  This happened on a Thursday, discovered the next 
Monday, and it took till Friday working around the clock till we were 
caught up (rerun Thursday, rerun Friday, then do Monday => )   They 
asked me, "Mike, can you come up with something so that this can never 
happen again?"


My solution was instead of cycles that repeated, a DATE associated with 
the run. Of course beyond human effort to edit all the names in each job 
of the run for that, so one directory with the jobs having symbolics in 
the names (for things like "this run", "previous run", "last months 
run", etc) and a program that given this directory and a "date of run" 
would edit all of those jobs into another directory with all the 
substitutions made and then these would be the jobs for that run, names 
never used again >> I was an "applications" programmer but for this tech 
support declared me "honorary tech support" and gave me my own set of 
system manuals just for the presentation of the concept (I was of course 
also the person who then designed and wrote the actual calendar and 
editor programs)


So yes, I look at dates in file names as a very good thing. If like me 
you had lived through that "hell week" trying to get caught back up you 
would too.


With gnucash, I am not closing the books but I DO make backups, and the 
year end one is special. A copy goes offsite and for organizations, an 
additional  copy to another officer to be usable as proof (by compare) 
that I didn't alter books. So all of the books do have the current year 
in the name of those copies, and then the active file gets renamed for 
the next (now current) year.


Ask yourself -- if I am using "what directory it is in" to indicate 
correct file (correct year), what could go wrong?


Michael D Novack







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Re: [GNC] Is there a way to handle same-named GnuCash files sensibly?

2022-05-05 Thread Geert Janssens
Chris,

I have decided to simply do the test.

As an intro, the files in ~/.local/share/books are called metadata files. They 
store (among 
others) which windows and tabs you had open the last time you used a file, 
column widths in 
various tabs, filters in registers and so on. They don't contain your 
accounting data itself.

When you create a new gnucash data file, this file will get a unique ID (the 
book ID). That id is 
what is used to map a metadata file to a gnucash file. So far so good. Each 
time you create a 
new file, it will have its own unique book ID and hence it will be mapped to 
its own metadata 
file, regardless of whether the gnucash data file has a unique name or not.

However, when you copy a gnucash file in your file manager from one directory 
to another, 
this is not the case. So if you create your 2022 gnucash file by copying the 
2021 gnucash file 
to a new directory but with the same file name, both will be mapped to the same 
metadata 
file. Depending on the use case this is a feature or a flaw. In your case it 
would be a flaw. 
There is however not much gnucash can do about it, other than rewriting the 
code to no 
longer depend on metadata files. I once made a proposal in that direction. 
Unfortunately I 
lack the time to effectively implement it.

Note that if you copy the file to a different name, that new file will not have 
any metadata 
associated with it. So the first time you open it, there will be no tabs open 
other than the 
Accounts tab, customizations to this tab are gone, window size is back to 
default and so on.

Other than copying a gnucash file around in your file manager, you could also 
create a copy 
by using gnucash' built-in "Save As..." feature. I tested it and it also 
doesn't change the 
unique book ID. That means that if you save the file under the same name in a 
different 
directory it will also share the mapped metadata file. It does however behave 
differently if 
you save to a new file name. In this case the current state of the new file  
(which is the one 
currently open when the save operation completes) will also be saved for the 
new gnucash 
file and will be separate from the original gnucash file.

So in summary, if you want your per year gnucash files to have unique metadata 
files, you 
have to create them as truly new files (File->New... in gnucash) or use "Save 
As..." to save 
them under a different name (in any directory you prefer). I don't know which 
way you 
typically start your new year's books, at least you now know the limitations of 
the current 
implementation.

Personally I think the Save As... behaviour is flawed. It should create a new 
unique book ID. I 
can't imagine a use case where this would fail to work (or there isn't a 
reasonable alternative 
way to achieve the same thing for that alternative use case). If you feel like 
it you could file 
an enhancement request for this in our Bugzilla.

Regards,

Geert

Op donderdag 5 mei 2022 10:09:17 CEST schreef Chris Green:
> On Wed, May 04, 2022 at 07:18:32PM -0400, Michael or Penny Novack wrote:
> > > Yes, I noticed too that there a files with a number added to the base
> > > name, e.g.:-
> > > 
> > >  building.gnucash.gcm
> > >  building.gnucash_2.gcm
> > > 
> > > ... but I'm not sure that it's a perfect system.
> > > 
> > > I have reverted to having the year as part of the file name and a
> > > wrapper script that finds the data file corresponding to the year
> > > directory I'm in.
> > 
> > UH ... just because you as a human consider abcd and abcd_3 to be the same
> > name misses the point that they ARE different file names as far as the
> > computer is concerned, as different as you consider Fred and Freda
> > different names
> 
> Yes, I do realise that, I was just pointing out what GnuCash appears
> to do if you have two different data files (in different directories)
> with the same name.  I've never had a data file called
> building.gnucash_2.gnucash so (I assume) GnuCash has created that file
> when it found there was already a building.gnucash.gcm file for
> *another* data file.
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Re: [GNC] Is there a way to handle same-named GnuCash files sensibly?

2022-05-05 Thread Chris Green
On Wed, May 04, 2022 at 07:18:32PM -0400, Michael or Penny Novack wrote:
> 
> > Yes, I noticed too that there a files with a number added to the base
> > name, e.g.:-
> > 
> >  building.gnucash.gcm
> >  building.gnucash_2.gcm
> > 
> > ... but I'm not sure that it's a perfect system.
> > 
> > I have reverted to having the year as part of the file name and a
> > wrapper script that finds the data file corresponding to the year
> > directory I'm in.
> > 
> UH ... just because you as a human consider abcd and abcd_3 to be the same
> name misses the point that they ARE different file names as far as the
> computer is concerned, as different as you consider Fred and Freda different
> names
> 
Yes, I do realise that, I was just pointing out what GnuCash appears
to do if you have two different data files (in different directories)
with the same name.  I've never had a data file called
building.gnucash_2.gnucash so (I assume) GnuCash has created that file
when it found there was already a building.gnucash.gcm file for
*another* data file.


> However, including the year in the name when in fact these are :the same
> file except for a different year is an EXCELLENT way to go
> 
Yes, except that it does make for rather long filenames.  I'd really
be happiest if my GnuCash 'building' bank account data file was simply
called 'building'.  It's in a directory called ~/pcc/2022 which tells
me that it's Parochial Parish Council data for 2022.

-- 
Chris Green
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Re: [GNC] Is there a way to handle same-named GnuCash files sensibly?

2022-05-04 Thread Michael or Penny Novack




Yes, I noticed too that there a files with a number added to the base
name, e.g.:-

 building.gnucash.gcm
 building.gnucash_2.gcm

... but I'm not sure that it's a perfect system.

I have reverted to having the year as part of the file name and a
wrapper script that finds the data file corresponding to the year
directory I'm in.

UH ... just because you as a human consider abcd and abcd_3 to be the 
same name misses the point that they ARE different file names as far as 
the computer is concerned, as different as you consider Fred and Freda 
different names


However, including the year in the name when in fact these are :the same 
file except for a different year is an EXCELLENT way to go


Michael D Novack


--
There is no possibility of social justice on a dead planet except the equality 
of the grave.

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Re: [GNC] Is there a way to handle same-named GnuCash files sensibly?

2022-05-04 Thread Derek Atkins
Back in antiquity, GnuCash would encode the full path of the data file
into the metadata file, but that meant that if you moved the data file in
any way, GnuCash would lose track of the metadata belonging to it...

-derek

On Wed, May 4, 2022 4:02 pm, Chris Green wrote:
> On Wed, May 04, 2022 at 09:26:51PM +0200, Geert Janssens wrote:
>> Op dinsdag 3 mei 2022 18:37:20 CEST schreef Chris Green:
>> > GnuCash names files in ~/.local/share/gnucash/books according to the
>> > filename of the GnuCash data file.  This is a bit of a problem for me
>> > because I expect to be able to have multiple GnuCash data files with
>> > the same name in different places.
>> >
>> In theory gnucash should be able to handle this. If the file name
>> already exists in the books
>> directory, gnucash will create the new file in there with a number
>> appended to the name. To
>> find the proper file in book matching the building.gnucash file you just
>> opened, it uses a
>> unique book guid that's stored inside each of the files in the books
>> directory. I don't know
>> however how these unique id's are generated or how their uniqueness is
>> guaranteed. So
>> depending on how you make new gnucash files for each year, this may or
>> may not work.
>>
> Yes, I noticed too that there a files with a number added to the base
> name, e.g.:-
>
> building.gnucash.gcm
> building.gnucash_2.gcm
>
> ... but I'm not sure that it's a perfect system.
>
> I have reverted to having the year as part of the file name and a
> wrapper script that finds the data file corresponding to the year
> directory I'm in.
>
> I.e. if I'm in directory /home/chris/pcc/2021 and I run the wrapper
> script 'gnc' it will run gnucash with data file general2021.gnucash.
> It seems pretty much OK so far and saves a lot of typing of long names.
>
>
> --
> Chris Green
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-- 
   Derek Atkins 617-623-3745
   de...@ihtfp.com www.ihtfp.com
   Computer and Internet Security Consultant

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Re: [GNC] Is there a way to handle same-named GnuCash files sensibly?

2022-05-04 Thread Chris Green
On Wed, May 04, 2022 at 09:26:51PM +0200, Geert Janssens wrote:
> Op dinsdag 3 mei 2022 18:37:20 CEST schreef Chris Green:
> > GnuCash names files in ~/.local/share/gnucash/books according to the
> > filename of the GnuCash data file.  This is a bit of a problem for me
> > because I expect to be able to have multiple GnuCash data files with
> > the same name in different places.
> > 
> In theory gnucash should be able to handle this. If the file name already 
> exists in the books 
> directory, gnucash will create the new file in there with a number appended 
> to the name. To 
> find the proper file in book matching the building.gnucash file you just 
> opened, it uses a 
> unique book guid that's stored inside each of the files in the books 
> directory. I don't know 
> however how these unique id's are generated or how their uniqueness is 
> guaranteed. So 
> depending on how you make new gnucash files for each year, this may or may 
> not work.
> 
Yes, I noticed too that there a files with a number added to the base
name, e.g.:-

building.gnucash.gcm
building.gnucash_2.gcm

... but I'm not sure that it's a perfect system.

I have reverted to having the year as part of the file name and a
wrapper script that finds the data file corresponding to the year
directory I'm in.

I.e. if I'm in directory /home/chris/pcc/2021 and I run the wrapper
script 'gnc' it will run gnucash with data file general2021.gnucash.
It seems pretty much OK so far and saves a lot of typing of long names.


-- 
Chris Green
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Re: [GNC] Is there a way to handle same-named GnuCash files sensibly?

2022-05-04 Thread Geert Janssens
Op dinsdag 3 mei 2022 18:37:20 CEST schreef Chris Green:
> GnuCash names files in ~/.local/share/gnucash/books according to the
> filename of the GnuCash data file.  This is a bit of a problem for me
> because I expect to be able to have multiple GnuCash data files with
> the same name in different places.
> 
In theory gnucash should be able to handle this. If the file name already 
exists in the books 
directory, gnucash will create the new file in there with a number appended to 
the name. To 
find the proper file in book matching the building.gnucash file you just 
opened, it uses a 
unique book guid that's stored inside each of the files in the books directory. 
I don't know 
however how these unique id's are generated or how their uniqueness is 
guaranteed. So 
depending on how you make new gnucash files for each year, this may or may not 
work.

Regards,

Geert
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Re: [GNC] Is there a way to handle same-named GnuCash files sensibly?

2022-05-03 Thread Chris Green
... and further, reading the following:-

https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Configuration_Locations

Has shown me several ways to achieve what I want, the man page for
GnuCash doesn't mention the many, useful, environment variables that
are documented in the above.

I think I can stop being so annoying now! :-)

-- 
Chris Green
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Re: [GNC] Is there a way to handle same-named GnuCash files sensibly?

2022-05-03 Thread Chris Green
> 
> There are further sub-directories to sum of these.  It makes it very easy for 
> me

sum = 'some' :-)

-- 
Chris Green
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Re: [GNC] Is there a way to handle same-named GnuCash files sensibly?

2022-05-03 Thread Chris Green
On Tue, May 03, 2022 at 12:01:47PM -0500, Adrien Monteleone wrote:
> So you've chosen an organization method that creates the problem but then
> ask for how to avoid it? The answer seems pretty obvious to me:
> 
It's the organisation that I use for just about everything else and
it's the way many other people work.  From my point of view GnuCash is
a latecomer to an existing set up.


> Don't start a new file each year.
> 
Auditors prefer it that way, plus it means that I don't have to change
report options when I want 'this year' rather than 'last year'.  Yes,
I know this (never closing the data file) is the normal way of doing
it in GnuCash but it really doesn't fit in well with the rest of my
existing system organisation and I was hoping GnuCash would be
flexible enough to work the way I'd prefer.


> But before that, to your original question, what files exactly in
> ~/.local/... are you concerned about? One rarely needs to mess with them.
> 
I'm not messing with them directly.


> Concerning the configuration settings, particularly reporting period, that
> problem too goes away with a single file rather than one for each year.
> 
No it doesn't! :-)  If I set the reporting period to, for example,
01/01/2020 to 31/12/2020 then every report is for that period.  If I
then want a report for 2021 I have to go and change the reporting
period.  If I have a data file that is for 2020 only then I never have
to change the reporting period.

Yes, I could save the reports but then one would end up with a huge
number of them after a few years.

> 
> What is an example of what you'd expect/like to see instead?
> 
Keep the information like reporting period in the data file to which
it relates.


> And is something like 'building20.gnucash' really that clumsy?
> 
> How about 'building_20.gnucash' or 'building-20.gnucash'?
> 
> Are 2 or 3 characters really that much longer? (4 or 5 if whole year is
> used)
> 
> How is adding the year to the name 'redundant'—because it is already in a
> directory name? How often do you look at directory/file lists anyway?
> 
My organisation depends on directory structure. 

For example I store documentation in a directory called (surprise!)
doc, it has sub-directories:-

apexLodge   dia  family  houseHome  maxCovidpcc  
shareCertificates
boating diy  garden  hsbc   maxmum  photography  
telecoms
car doorsgov labels motorcycle  plumbing travel
chrisCovid  electrical   health  lettersnationwide  postEtc.
computerelectronics  hmrcmaterials  paypal  recipes

There are further sub-directories to sum of these.  It makes it very easy for me
find documents such as instruction manuals, copies of passports, bank details, 
etc.
The documents can be in all sorts of formats, text, PDF, word processor, etc.

> This isn't a 'GnuCash' problem. You could encounter this with *any* file
> type and app.
> 
Tell me *any* other program that stores information about a file in
the way that GnuCash does.  To store information about a file in a
generic directory the way that GnuCash does is very rare.  Storing
universal settings like this makes sense, it provides defaults for the
way one wants an application to work, but settings like the dates
applying to a particular file should be stored with (or in) that file.

-- 
Chris Green
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Re: [GNC] Is there a way to handle same-named GnuCash files sensibly?

2022-05-03 Thread Adrien Monteleone
So you've chosen an organization method that creates the problem but 
then ask for how to avoid it? The answer seems pretty obvious to me:


Don't start a new file each year.

But before that, to your original question, what files exactly in 
~/.local/... are you concerned about? One rarely needs to mess with them.


Concerning the configuration settings, particularly reporting period, 
that problem too goes away with a single file rather than one for each year.



What is an example of what you'd expect/like to see instead?

And is something like 'building20.gnucash' really that clumsy?

How about 'building_20.gnucash' or 'building-20.gnucash'?

Are 2 or 3 characters really that much longer? (4 or 5 if whole year is 
used)


How is adding the year to the name 'redundant'—because it is already in 
a directory name? How often do you look at directory/file lists anyway?


You've chosen to 'artificially' break up your GnuCash file, then 
stripped out most unique identifying information, and now you see the 
problem but don't want to revisit those decisions.


One way or another you'll need to decide which is more important to you: 
 Your chosen method of organization, or the filename readability and 
length.


This isn't a 'GnuCash' problem. You could encounter this with *any* file 
type and app.


Regards,
Adrien

-p.s. I've done this very thing myself a few times trying to settle on 
the best method of organization. I ended up accepting dates in my file 
names, though of course I could edit the file meta to fix this if 
desired and then clean up the names. I felt it better to keep the 
original crtime, which isn't readily viewable in a detailed listing anyway.


On 5/3/22 11:37 AM, Chris Green wrote:

GnuCash names files in ~/.local/share/gnucash/books according to the
filename of the GnuCash data file.  This is a bit of a problem for me
because I expect to be able to have multiple GnuCash data files with
the same name in different places.

For example I keep church building accounts in a file called
'building.gnucash' with the accounts for each year in a different
sub-directory of my church accounts system.

I.e. there are:-

 /home/chris/pcc/2020/building.gnucash
 /home/chris/pcc/2021/building.gnucash
 /home/chris/pcc/2022/building.gnucash

Is there any way around this problem?  As it is various configuration
settings get changed as I move round my accounts, in particular the
reporting period.

Keeping all the church's accounts, and correspondence and other files
for one particular year makes sense for me (and the auditor!).

I *could* add the year to the GnuCash data file name but that does
make it rather long and clumsy, and it makes for redundant information
which Mr Codd doesn't like! :-)



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[GNC] Is there a way to handle same-named GnuCash files sensibly?

2022-05-03 Thread Chris Green
GnuCash names files in ~/.local/share/gnucash/books according to the
filename of the GnuCash data file.  This is a bit of a problem for me
because I expect to be able to have multiple GnuCash data files with
the same name in different places.

For example I keep church building accounts in a file called
'building.gnucash' with the accounts for each year in a different
sub-directory of my church accounts system.

I.e. there are:-

/home/chris/pcc/2020/building.gnucash
/home/chris/pcc/2021/building.gnucash
/home/chris/pcc/2022/building.gnucash

Is there any way around this problem?  As it is various configuration
settings get changed as I move round my accounts, in particular the
reporting period.  

Keeping all the church's accounts, and correspondence and other files
for one particular year makes sense for me (and the auditor!).

I *could* add the year to the GnuCash data file name but that does
make it rather long and clumsy, and it makes for redundant information
which Mr Codd doesn't like! :-)

-- 
Chris Green
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