Re: [GNC] email seems so crude 30 years after MULTICS forums.

[Chris Green]

On Thu, Oct 07, 2021 at 07:39:20PM -0400, Jack Frillman via gnucash-user wrote:
> 
> > Of course there's Usenet, which doesn't require everyone to connect to
> 
> Usenet is still active?
> I though it died years ago.
> 
That would be my favourite way to communicate.

I'm still active on several Usenet newsgroups, one of the best and
most active is uk.d-i-y.

-- 
Chris Green
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Re: [GNC] email seems so crude 30 years after MULTICS forums.

[Nate Bargmann]

* On 2021 08 Oct 06:43 -0500, Robert Heller wrote:
 
> There is also GigiNews (US$4.99/month).

I found https://www.aioe.org/ some years ago which gives access to text
newsgroups and which I've used without issue, though I post very little.

Toward the OP, one nice thing about email and mailing lists such as this
is that the messages are often archived in multiple places.  Web forum
software is often not and depends on there being good backups in place
for disaster recovery.  I have seen Web forums disappear over the years
and all the content with them so I regard them as less trustworthy and
quite ephemeral and ill suited for technical/user discussions where
access to archives years later is useful.

- Nate

-- 
"The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all
possible worlds.  The pessimist fears this is true."
Web: https://www.n0nb.us
Projects: https://github.com/N0NB
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Re: [GNC] email seems so crude 30 years after MULTICS forums.

[Stan Brown]

On 2021-10-08 01:16, Gerrit Holl wrote:
> On Thu, 7 Oct 2021 at 21:42, Jim DeLaHunt  wrote:
> 
>> I predict that we could have a big discussion about the pros and cons of
>> email lists and forums, and we would end up without a resolution; we
>> would discover that no one option works for everyone.
> 
> For what it's worth, there are also ~280 questions on gnucash on
> money.stackexchange.com, a site run by a commercial company (best
> known for Stack Overflow) but with user contributions licensed
> CC-BY-SA.  https://money.stackexchange.com/questions/tagged/gnucash
> 
> The Q form in general and stackexchange specifically have their own
> pros and cons compared to forums or email; in my opinion, all three
> are complementary (as is chat).

I have a lot of respect for StackExchange. Their system seems to result
in incorrect answers getting corrected fairly quickly. Quite often when
I google a technical question a StackExchange is near the top of results,
and it's nearly always helpful.

-- 
Stan Brown
Tehachapi, CA, USA
https://BrownMath.com
https://OakRoadSystems.com
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Re: [GNC] email seems so crude 30 years after MULTICS forums.

[Robert Heller]

At Fri, 8 Oct 2021 00:08:02 -0700 Stan Brown  wrote:

> 
> 
> On 2021-10-07 16:39, Jack Frillman via gnucash-user wrote:
> > 
> >> Of course there's Usenet, which doesn't require everyone to connect to
> > 
> > Usenet is still active?
> > I though it died years ago.
> 
> No, Google did its best to destroy it in favor of Google Groups. most
> formerly active newsgroups are moribund, but some are still quite
> active: misc.taxes.moderated, for instance.
> 
> Most ISPs gradually cut back their Usenet support and eventually
> terminated it -- without lowering their price for the loss of amenity,
> as another poster noted. There are a number of independent free or
> fee-based Usenet servers. I use news.individual.net at 10 euros a year;
> it carries every text-based newsgroup, if I am not mistaken.

There is also GigiNews (US$4.99/month).

> 
> New groups still appear occasionally, for instance Thunderbird and
> Firefox peer support groups after Mozilla decommissioned its own captive
> newsgroups. Anyone could start a GnuCash group, but I wouldn't do it
> without some level of consensus in the mailing list.)
> 

-- 
Robert Heller -- Cell: 413-658-7953 GV: 978-633-5364
Deepwoods Software-- Custom Software Services
http://www.deepsoft.com/  -- Linux Administration Services
hel...@deepsoft.com   -- Webhosting Services
  
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Re: [GNC] email seems so crude 30 years after MULTICS forums.

[Saša Janiška]

On Fri, 8 Oct 2021 00:08:02 -0700
Stan Brown  wrote:

> No, Google did its best to destroy it in favor of Google Groups. most
> formerly active newsgroups are moribund, but some are still quite
> active: misc.taxes.moderated, for instance.

Following this mailing list via news.gmane.io and no need for anything
else.  ;)


Sincerely,
Gour

-- 
Many, many births both you and I have passed. I can remember
all of them, but you cannot, O subduer of the enemy!


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Re: [GNC] email seems so crude 30 years after MULTICS forums.

[David H]

There's also a Gnucash Reddit that is active at
https://www.reddit.com/r/GnuCash/

Cheers David H.


On Fri, 8 Oct 2021 at 18:19, Gerrit Holl  wrote:

> On Thu, 7 Oct 2021 at 21:42, Jim DeLaHunt  wrote:
>
> > I predict that we could have a big discussion about the pros and cons of
> > email lists and forums, and we would end up without a resolution; we
> > would discover that no one option works for everyone.
>
> For what it's worth, there are also ~280 questions on gnucash on
> money.stackexchange.com, a site run by a commercial company (best
> known for Stack Overflow) but with user contributions licensed
> CC-BY-SA.  https://money.stackexchange.com/questions/tagged/gnucash
>
> The Q form in general and stackexchange specifically have their own
> pros and cons compared to forums or email; in my opinion, all three
> are complementary (as is chat).
>
> Gerrit.
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Re: [GNC] email seems so crude 30 years after MULTICS forums.

[Gerrit Holl]

On Thu, 7 Oct 2021 at 21:42, Jim DeLaHunt  wrote:

> I predict that we could have a big discussion about the pros and cons of
> email lists and forums, and we would end up without a resolution; we
> would discover that no one option works for everyone.

For what it's worth, there are also ~280 questions on gnucash on
money.stackexchange.com, a site run by a commercial company (best
known for Stack Overflow) but with user contributions licensed
CC-BY-SA.  https://money.stackexchange.com/questions/tagged/gnucash

The Q form in general and stackexchange specifically have their own
pros and cons compared to forums or email; in my opinion, all three
are complementary (as is chat).

Gerrit.
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Re: [GNC] email seems so crude 30 years after MULTICS forums.

[Stan Brown]

On 2021-10-07 16:39, Jack Frillman via gnucash-user wrote:
> 
>> Of course there's Usenet, which doesn't require everyone to connect to
> 
> Usenet is still active?
> I though it died years ago.

No, Google did its best to destroy it in favor of Google Groups. most
formerly active newsgroups are moribund, but some are still quite
active: misc.taxes.moderated, for instance.

Most ISPs gradually cut back their Usenet support and eventually
terminated it -- without lowering their price for the loss of amenity,
as another poster noted. There are a number of independent free or
fee-based Usenet servers. I use news.individual.net at 10 euros a year;
it carries every text-based newsgroup, if I am not mistaken.

New groups still appear occasionally, for instance Thunderbird and
Firefox peer support groups after Mozilla decommissioned its own captive
newsgroups. Anyone could start a GnuCash group, but I wouldn't do it
without some level of consensus in the mailing list.)

-- 
Stan Brown
Tehachapi, CA, USA
https://BrownMath.com
https://OakRoadSystems.com
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Re: [GNC] email seems so crude 30 years after MULTICS forums.

[David H]

Skynet :-)

On Fri, 8 Oct 2021 at 14:04, David Carlson 
wrote:

> ARPANET?
>
> On Thu, Oct 7, 2021 at 8:52 PM Jean-David Beyer via gnucash-user <
> gnucash-user@gnucash.org> wrote:
>
> > On 10/7/21 7:39 PM, Jack Frillman via gnucash-user wrote:
> > > Usenet is still active?
> > > I though it died years ago.
> >
> > MY ISP is Verizon. Originally, it had Usenet servers to supply all
> > newsgroups. Then, at no decrease in cost, they supplied only the big-5
> > newsgroup categories. Later, they discontinued ll newsgroups, still with
> > no reduction in cost. So I signed up with an outfit that supplied
> > Usenet, but they disappeared a few months ago. I noticed that Usenet, or
> > at least the newsgroups I was signed up for, had less and less of
> > interest anyway, so I have not looked for another Usenet supplier.
> >
> > --
> >   .~.  Jean-David Beyer
> >   /V\  Shrewsbury, New Jersey
> >  /( )\ Red Hat Enterprise Linux
> >  ^^-^^ up 1 week, 10 hours, 30 minutes
> > ___
> > gnucash-user mailing list
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> > -
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> >
>
>
> --
> David Carlson
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Re: [GNC] email seems so crude 30 years after MULTICS forums.

[David Carlson]

ARPANET?

On Thu, Oct 7, 2021 at 8:52 PM Jean-David Beyer via gnucash-user <
gnucash-user@gnucash.org> wrote:

> On 10/7/21 7:39 PM, Jack Frillman via gnucash-user wrote:
> > Usenet is still active?
> > I though it died years ago.
>
> MY ISP is Verizon. Originally, it had Usenet servers to supply all
> newsgroups. Then, at no decrease in cost, they supplied only the big-5
> newsgroup categories. Later, they discontinued ll newsgroups, still with
> no reduction in cost. So I signed up with an outfit that supplied
> Usenet, but they disappeared a few months ago. I noticed that Usenet, or
> at least the newsgroups I was signed up for, had less and less of
> interest anyway, so I have not looked for another Usenet supplier.
>
> --
>   .~.  Jean-David Beyer
>   /V\  Shrewsbury, New Jersey
>  /( )\ Red Hat Enterprise Linux
>  ^^-^^ up 1 week, 10 hours, 30 minutes
> ___
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>


-- 
David Carlson
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Re: [GNC] email seems so crude 30 years after MULTICS forums.

[Jean-David Beyer via gnucash-user]

On 10/7/21 7:39 PM, Jack Frillman via gnucash-user wrote:
> Usenet is still active?
> I though it died years ago.

MY ISP is Verizon. Originally, it had Usenet servers to supply all
newsgroups. Then, at no decrease in cost, they supplied only the big-5
newsgroup categories. Later, they discontinued ll newsgroups, still with
no reduction in cost. So I signed up with an outfit that supplied
Usenet, but they disappeared a few months ago. I noticed that Usenet, or
at least the newsgroups I was signed up for, had less and less of
interest anyway, so I have not looked for another Usenet supplier.

-- 
  .~.  Jean-David Beyer
  /V\  Shrewsbury, New Jersey
 /( )\ Red Hat Enterprise Linux
 ^^-^^ up 1 week, 10 hours, 30 minutes
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Re: [GNC] email seems so crude 30 years after MULTICS forums.

[Jack Frillman via gnucash-user]

Of course there's Usenet, which doesn't require everyone to connect to


Usenet is still active?
I though it died years ago.

--
Old Unix programmers never die, they just mv to /dev/null
- Anonymous

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Re: [GNC] email seems so crude 30 years after MULTICS forums.

[Stan Brown]

> On 2021-10-07 11:10, David G. Pickett via gnucash-user wrote:
> 
>> Can't GNUCash find an open source web app that does structured forums
>> in place of email full on copied replies upon replies in a long,
>> unstructured text string? 

You do know that you can select individual messages rather than
so-called daily digest,(*) right? Both formats are a pain IMHO, but
individual messages are slightly less of a pain since I can sort by date
within subject line.

(*) I initially subscribed to daily digest, but got three or four
digests most days, so I had the worst of both worlds.

On 2021-10-07 12:42, Jim DeLaHunt wrote:
> I predict that we could have a big discussion about the pros and cons of
> email lists and forums, and we would end up without a resolution; we
> would discover that no one option works for everyone.

Of course there's Usenet, which doesn't require everyone to connect to
the same site, automatically keeps related messages together, allows
anyone to mute threads that aren't interesting to that person, and
requires literally _zero_ work to administer. (In fairness, one does
need a Usenet client, though some email programs do a not-awful job of
as Usenet clients.) But Google set out to kill it 15 or 20 years ago,
and has nearly completely done so.

-- 
Stan Brown
Tehachapi, CA, USA
https://BrownMath.com
https://OakRoadSystems.com
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Re: [GNC] email seems so crude 30 years after MULTICS forums.

[Jim DeLaHunt]

On 2021-10-07 11:10, David G. Pickett via gnucash-user wrote:


Can't GNUCash find an open source web app that does structured forums in place 
of email full on copied replies upon replies in a long, unstructured text 
string?  I the 90's I used a MULTICS app called forum that… [did all kinds of 
wonderful things]….
There must be open source web apps out there to do this, in lieu of this email 
thing!  A daily reminder summary of new and replied topics would then suffice.


David:

I sympathise with your frustration. Just about every project I 
participate in needs to find a way to communicate. Nearly every project 
which tries email encounters the drawback you experience.


The MULTICS app "forum" sounds wonderful. However, next to its 
advantages, I'll bet it had a few drawbacks: 1. everyone had to connect 
to the same forum site to participate in the discussion, 2. someone had 
to be system administrator for the forum site, 3. the format might have 
worked well for you, but it did not work well for some other people.


Forums and email lists are two different approaches to meeting the same 
communications need. They have complementary strengths and weaknesses. 
Each approach works better for some people and worse for others. The 
corresponding advantages of an email list over a forum are: 1. the 
discussion comes to each person's email inbox, 2. it is less work to be 
system administrator for an email list than for a forum, 3. the format 
works well for some people who don't like the forum format.


That said, in the other projects I visit, the forum software called 
Discourse  currently seems the best-designed 
option widely available. One of its strengths is that you can sort of 
interact with it via email threads if you want to.


I predict that we could have a big discussion about the pros and cons of 
email lists and forums, and we would end up without a resolution; we 
would discover that no one option works for everyone.


Best regards,
 —Jim DeLaHunt


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[GNC] email seems so crude 30 years after MULTICS forums.

[David G. Pickett via gnucash-user]

Can't GNUCash find an open source web app that does structured forums in place 
of email full on copied replies upon replies in a long, unstructured text 
string?  I the 90's I used a MULTICS app called forum that:
   
   - kept track of which discussions were new to me and 
   - for those that were old, my high water mark and 
   - if any new posts had occurred.  
   - I could go from topic to topic, 
   
   - in chronological order by age of topic,
   - read new posts only, 
   - one at a time, 
   - in chronological post order within the topic, and 
   - take myself off the topic 
   
   - quite efficiently.
There must be open source web apps out there to do this, in lieu of this email 
thing!  A daily reminder summary of new and replied topics would then suffice.
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