Re: [GNC] Basic Question (I hope) - End of Year Procedure

2018-12-28 Thread Stephen M. Butler

On 12/28/18 6:08 AM, Jennym wrote:

Thanks Stephen,

Not sure what 'the GnC method' but thanks for your suggestions. Think I now
have my head around my 'problem'.


GnC method lets you ignore the close accounts step as it knows about the 
accounting period (you did set that up) and that Income and Expense 
accounts start over automatically -- even if you have prior year's 
transactions in them.


The only advantage I see to running the close books transaction is that 
it books the retained earnings to the account(s) you want rather than 
just showing it as an accumulated retained earnings on the Balance Sheet 
report.


The downside is if you ever have to make adjustments to prior year's 
activity you will need to either adjust the two close books transactions 
or delete them and re-close that year.  I did that for my business.  
Think I'll not do that for my personal finances.





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Re: [GNC] Basic Question (I hope) - End of Year Procedure

2018-12-28 Thread Jennym
Thank you for your help, Michael.

The system automatically has been creating backups, in my ignorance, I now
see the files as running logs, and the actual file is .gnucash.

I've now corrected this thinking, copying the .gnucash file to Google Drive
for backup. 

Thanks for pointing me towards the right path, I've now got my head around
the file structure, which was something I was scared of in case I messed up
the register or something.



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Re: [GNC] Basic Question (I hope) - End of Year Procedure

2018-12-28 Thread Jennym
Thank you David, you're right, I don't need to 'close the books' as the
accounts are only for assessing where my personal expenditure is going, and
keeping track of 'cash-flow'. I hadn't thought about 'reports.' 

I've now discovered how to set date parameters to produce a report, and when
the report is displayed on the screen, it's easy to cut and paste info into
an excel file to keep for 'prosperity' and playing around with budgets. 

I had in the past tried to export an account into a format for Excel. But
failed several times, the above 'cut and paste' have worked well.

Thank you for the links, they're invaluable to understanding how GnuCash
works. At this point in time, I'm still getting my head around the info.




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Re: [GNC] Basic Question (I hope) - End of Year Procedure

2018-12-28 Thread Michael or Penny Novack

On 12/27/2018 7:31 PM, David Cousens wrote:


This was
why accountants introduced an artificial 13th month into the financial year
so that all closing transactions were forced to occur fater any other
transaction that occurred within the year. Any required adjustments to the
accounts  are also usually carried out before the closing transactions for
the same reason.
Or increased the number of days in December past 31 or otherwise 
provided for dates that were not fiscal dates for external transactions 
<< that's what where I spent my working days did >> However that  sort 
of thing not so easy these days when using software that checks the 
validity of dates and doesn't know about "special dates" . When it is 
your own "date validity checker" written in house, more practical.


HOWEVER --- there ARE ways around this difficulty for those of us using 
gnucash, WORK FLOW solutions. After the last external transaction, copy 
the file to a name like "last external". Then do the internal 
transactions that DO affect income expenses (like recording 
depreciation) and again make a copy. Now you can do the "close" 
transaction(s) and make a copy "post close". IF there are "adjustment" 
transactions to be entered, do them and again make a copy you name for 
the next year or simply copy "post close" to that.


Michael D Novack
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Re: [GNC] Basic Question (I hope) - End of Year Procedure

2018-12-28 Thread Jennym
Thanks Colin, will now religiously back up, now I've taken the time to work
it out.



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Re: [GNC] Basic Question (I hope) - End of Year Procedure

2018-12-28 Thread Colin Law
It is unfortunate that the original poster has not considered it
appropriate to respond to the help offered here.

Colin

On Mon, 24 Dec 2018 at 05:03, Jennym <55.jennifer.mas...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi
>
> I only started using GNUCash last April for simple, personal accounting, so
> I'm at the 'basic' stage. I'm using it with:
>
> a) Current bank account
> b) Two credit card accounts
> c) Personal Wallet
> d) Three income accounts
> e) Normal household accounts
> f) Budgeting (manually entered, not automatic via the system)
>
> So what I'd like to do:  Retain all of 2018 accounts (having them to hand
> for easy access), but have them zeroed for 2019.
>
> My worry is that if I do anything wrong, there's no historical 'undo' button
> to backtrack.
>
> Would really appreciate any advice. (Basic of course). Thank you
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [GNC] Basic Question (I hope) - End of Year Procedure

2018-12-27 Thread David Cousens
Stan,

The easiest way to achieve that would be to manually perform the closing
transactions rather than use the inbuilt procedure, then they are just
ordinary transactionsand won't have the KVP pair in them. 

For closing transactions, they should always appear after any other
transaction for the period being closed so that the transferred balances
represent the true state of the accounts at the end of the period. This was
why accountants introduced an artificial 13th month into the financial year
so that all closing transactions were forced to occur fater any other
transaction that occurred within the year. Any required adjustments to the
accounts  are also usually carried out before the closing transactions for
the same reason.

A list of key value pairs is a data structure that is part of each
transaction record. It allows arbitrary data to be added to the main data
structure (the transaction) without requiring that structure to be redefined
throughout the code. Only the code for processing the data in the KVP needs
to be added to the code base to add features requiring new data not
previously stored. The facilities for extracting it and adding it are a part
of the original transaction data structure. The KVP is also used in other
data structures within GnuCash for the same purpose.

David Cousens



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Re: [GNC] Basic Question (I hope) - End of Year Procedure

2018-12-26 Thread Stan Brown
Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2018 09:27:48 +0800
From: Christopher Lam 
Subject: Re: [GNC] Basic Question (I hope) - End of Year Procedure

About GnuCash's "close the books" pair of transactions, you wrote:

> It is also a special transaction which has a KVP flag to mark it a closing
> transaction, and the posted date is made to be end-of-day rather than
> midday to ensure correct order in reports and register.
> 
> There's no other special formula associated with a closing transaction.

I'm not sure what a KVP flag is, but that end-of-day setting explains why the 
transaction number is ignored. (After closing the books on the ordinary income 
and expenses accounts, I fold the special equity accounts lie Extraordinary 
Income and Gain or Loss on Investments into the main Equity account.)

How can I strip the end-of-day setting off of the closing transactions, so that 
they wil fall in the proper order with other transactions ased on transaction 
number within date?

-- 
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Re: [GNC] Basic Question (I hope) - End of Year Procedure

2018-12-26 Thread Michael or Penny Novack

On 12/25/2018 1:53 PM, John Ralls wrote:

That’s pretty much what the GnuCash close books function does. IIRC it’s two 
transactions, one for income accounts and one for expense accounts.

Regards,
John Ralls


As I noted before, were I doing it manually, I would probably use two 
transactions also, because of it being such a PITA to do a two sided 
split. Or three were I going through a temporary "profit and loss" 
account << would add that extra step only if teaching to somebody new to 
gnucash but familiar with old fashioned pen and ink on paper bookkeeping 
since that would be closest to what they were used to seeing.


Michael D Novack

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Re: [GNC] Basic Question (I hope) - End of Year Procedure

2018-12-25 Thread Christopher Lam
On Wed., 26 Dec. 2018, 02:55 John Ralls 
>
> > On Dec 25, 2018, at 9:08 AM, Michael or Penny Novack <
> stepbystepf...@comcast.net> wrote:
> >
> > On 12/25/2018 4:45 AM, Colin Law wrote:
> >>  You could be right though, perhaps the Close
> >> Books feature built into the s/w does what she wants.
> >>
> >> Colin
> >>
> > Because I don't use it, I don't know what gnucash's "close the books"
> actually does BUT what I described (entering a giant split transaction that
> zeroed out all the income and expense accounts into equity with the entry
> in equity being the net gain or loss) is what the MANUAL process would be.
> Doing it manually (with one or two* giant splits) would be a PITA.
> >
> > Michael D Novack
> >
> > * so split just one one side, two way splits are their own PITA
>
> That’s pretty much what the GnuCash close books function does. IIRC it’s
> two transactions, one for income accounts and one for expense accounts.
>

It is also a special transaction which has a KVP flag to mark it a closing
transaction, and the posted date is made to be end-of-day rather than
midday to ensure correct order in reports and register.

There's no other special formula associated with a closing transaction.

>
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Re: [GNC] Basic Question (I hope) - End of Year Procedure

2018-12-25 Thread Stephen M. Butler

On 12/25/18 10:53 AM, John Ralls wrote:



On Dec 25, 2018, at 9:08 AM, Michael or Penny Novack 
 wrote:

On 12/25/2018 4:45 AM, Colin Law wrote:

  You could be right though, perhaps the Close
Books feature built into the s/w does what she wants.

Colin


Because I don't use it, I don't know what gnucash's "close the books" actually 
does BUT what I described (entering a giant split transaction that zeroed out all the 
income and expense accounts into equity with the entry in equity being the net gain or 
loss) is what the MANUAL process would be. Doing it manually (with one or two* giant 
splits) would be a PITA.

Michael D Novack

* so split just one one side, two way splits are their own PITA

That’s pretty much what the GnuCash close books function does. IIRC it’s two 
transactions, one for income accounts and one for expense accounts.

Regards,
John Ralls
Correct.  I've used it solely to book those two transactions to an 
annual (new one yearly) "retained earnings" account.


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Re: [GNC] Basic Question (I hope) - End of Year Procedure

2018-12-25 Thread John Ralls


> On Dec 25, 2018, at 9:08 AM, Michael or Penny Novack 
>  wrote:
> 
> On 12/25/2018 4:45 AM, Colin Law wrote:
>>  You could be right though, perhaps the Close
>> Books feature built into the s/w does what she wants.
>> 
>> Colin
>> 
> Because I don't use it, I don't know what gnucash's "close the books" 
> actually does BUT what I described (entering a giant split transaction that 
> zeroed out all the income and expense accounts into equity with the entry in 
> equity being the net gain or loss) is what the MANUAL process would be. Doing 
> it manually (with one or two* giant splits) would be a PITA.
> 
> Michael D Novack
> 
> * so split just one one side, two way splits are their own PITA

That’s pretty much what the GnuCash close books function does. IIRC it’s two 
transactions, one for income accounts and one for expense accounts.

Regards,
John Ralls

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Re: [GNC] Basic Question (I hope) - End of Year Procedure

2018-12-25 Thread Michael or Penny Novack

On 12/25/2018 4:45 AM, Colin Law wrote:

  You could be right though, perhaps the Close
Books feature built into the s/w does what she wants.

Colin

Because I don't use it, I don't know what gnucash's "close the books" 
actually does BUT what I described (entering a giant split transaction 
that zeroed out all the income and expense accounts into equity with the 
entry in equity being the net gain or loss) is what the MANUAL process 
would be. Doing it manually (with one or two* giant splits) would be a PITA.


Michael D Novack

* so split just one one side, two way splits are their own PITA

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Re: [GNC] Basic Question (I hope) - End of Year Procedure

2018-12-25 Thread Colin Law
On Mon, 24 Dec 2018 at 22:39, Michael or Penny Novack
 wrote:
>
> On 12/24/2018 3:45 PM, Colin Law wrote:
>
> > I don't do this, for me there is no point. It is possible to view or
> > report on only transactions within a date range if one wants so I
> > don't see the advantage of closing the books.  If you do then you
> > loose easy access to the history, so for example when the dishwasher
> > fails and you think when and where did I buy that then you cannot
> > immediately find out.  I now have 18 years of personal accounts
> > history immediately accessible.
> Misunderstanding of what  "close the books" does?

Thanks for that clarification, though I was also unclear on exactly
what the OP is asking for, which was to zero all the accounts for the
new year.  I thought she meant that she wanted to start from a
completely empty account file (the technique for which is described in
the wiki link posted, along with the technique to just zero the income
and expenses accounts).  You could be right though, perhaps the Close
Books feature built into the s/w does what she wants.

Colin
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Re: [GNC] Basic Question (I hope) - End of Year Procedure

2018-12-24 Thread Michael or Penny Novack

On 12/24/2018 3:45 PM, Colin Law wrote:


I don't do this, for me there is no point. It is possible to view or
report on only transactions within a date range if one wants so I
don't see the advantage of closing the books.  If you do then you
loose easy access to the history, so for example when the dishwasher
fails and you think when and where did I buy that then you cannot
immediately find out.  I now have 18 years of personal accounts
history immediately accessible.

Misunderstanding of what  "close the books" does?

It doesn't existing transactions in the "temporary" income and expense 
accounts.


Assuming that it is implemented approximating the traditional process, 
it enters a giant split transaction that closes (brings the balance to 
zero) for all of these accounts with whatever is necessary going to 
equity as the gain or loss for the period. In the old days, that was by 
moving through another temporary account called "profit and loss" (all 
the income and expense accounts closed to this account) which was then 
closed to equity by the gain or loss amount.


Since gnucash can produce the report without this step (the "profit and 
loss" account served as the report back then) there is no need to close 
the books.


Michael D Novack
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Re: [GNC] Basic Question (I hope) - End of Year Procedure

2018-12-24 Thread Colin Law
On Mon, 24 Dec 2018 at 05:03, Jennym <55.jennifer.mas...@gmail.com> wrote:
> ...
> So what I'd like to do:  Retain all of 2018 accounts (having them to hand
> for easy access), but have them zeroed for 2019.

I don't do this, for me there is no point. It is possible to view or
report on only transactions within a date range if one wants so I
don't see the advantage of closing the books.  If you do then you
loose easy access to the history, so for example when the dishwasher
fails and you think when and where did I buy that then you cannot
immediately find out.  I now have 18 years of personal accounts
history immediately accessible.

> My worry is that if I do anything wrong, there's no historical 'undo' button
> to backtrack.

If you do decide to do it then as others have pointed out, if you mess
things up then you can always go back to your previous backup.  If you
don't take regular backups then start doing so immediately.  Your disk
drive or PC may go up in smoke, literally or metaphorically, at any
time and the accounts file may be irretrievably lost.

Colin
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Re: [GNC] Basic Question (I hope) - End of Year Procedure

2018-12-24 Thread Stephen M. Butler

On 12/24/18 7:13 AM, Michael or Penny Novack wrote:

On 12/24/2018 4:22 AM, David Cousens wrote:

Jenny
As well as the wiki that David T mentioned the help manual also has a
section on closing the books:


I will add something to this because of your "no magic undo button"

There sort of is. You can always make a copy of a file before you do 
some irrevocable change (this of course doesn't apply just to gnucash 
files)


Even if you do not ordinarily make backup copies of your books, 
especially if you are going to do a "close the books" operation, I 
suggest a backup copy before this operation and after (represents the 
state of the file at the start of the next year)


Michael D Novack

There is another option if you are using the GnC method that simply 
writes a set of transactions that zero out the Income and Expense items 
and places the opposing entry in the appropriate location chosen by the 
user.  You can simply delete those two transactions and the books are 
magically no longer closed.


I found that out when I used that option to close a series of years one 
after the other only to discover I'd messed up on an entry on year 1.  I 
simply removed the closing transactions for that year, made the 
appropriate changes, and redid the close for that year.



Note:  You don't really have to close the books for each year and GnC 
will keep track of things for you.  But, I wanted to have a set of 
Equity accounts showing the retained earnings for each year.  After all 
that hard work, my wife indicated it wasn't really necessary.  <>



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Re: [GNC] Basic Question (I hope) - End of Year Procedure

2018-12-24 Thread Michael or Penny Novack

On 12/24/2018 4:22 AM, David Cousens wrote:

Jenny
As well as the wiki that David T mentioned the help manual also has a
section on closing the books:


I will add something to this because of your "no magic undo button"

There sort of is. You can always make a copy of a file before you do 
some irrevocable change (this of course doesn't apply just to gnucash files)


Even if you do not ordinarily make backup copies of your books, 
especially if you are going to do a "close the books" operation, I 
suggest a backup copy before this operation and after (represents the 
state of the file at the start of the next year)


Michael D Novack
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Re: [GNC] Basic Question (I hope) - End of Year Procedure

2018-12-24 Thread David Cousens
Jenny 
As well as the wiki that David T mentioned the help manual also has a
section on closing the books:

https://www.gnucash.org/docs/v3/C/gnucash-help/tool-close-book.html
and the wiki:
https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Closing_Books .

Gnucash's report structure is also capable of preparing standard end of year
type reports without having to perform a formal closing of the books as per
standard accounting practice. The main function in a business is to transfer
the profit into equity in the case of a business and deal with tax and other
matters which might depend upon the profit for the period. For personal
accounts this may not really be necessary.

David Cousens





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Re: [GNC] Basic Question (I hope) - End of Year Procedure

2018-12-24 Thread David T. via gnucash-user

Apologies.  My mail program ate the link. 
wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Closing_Books
 
 
  On Mon, Dec 24, 2018 at 13:46, David T. via 
gnucash-user wrote:   Hello,
Welcome to gnucash, if rather belatedly. 
Your question is one that comes up at this time of the year, and can generate 
quite a bit of responses. You should definitely read the wiki page on this 
subject: 
Closing Books - GnuCash  
|  
|  
|  
|  |    |

  |

  |
|  
|  |  
Closing Books - GnuCash
 

  |  |

  |

  |

  
Best,David 
 
  On Mon, Dec 24, 2018 at 10:32, Jennym<55.jennifer.mas...@gmail.com> wrote:  Hi

I only started using GNUCash last April for simple, personal accounting, so
I'm at the 'basic' stage. I'm using it with:

a) Current bank account
b) Two credit card accounts
c) Personal Wallet
d) Three income accounts
e) Normal household accounts
f) Budgeting (manually entered, not automatic via the system)

So what I'd like to do:  Retain all of 2018 accounts (having them to hand
for easy access), but have them zeroed for 2019.

My worry is that if I do anything wrong, there's no historical 'undo' button
to backtrack.

Would really appreciate any advice. (Basic of course). Thank you 








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Re: [GNC] Basic Question (I hope) - End of Year Procedure

2018-12-24 Thread David T. via gnucash-user
Hello,
Welcome to gnucash, if rather belatedly. 
Your question is one that comes up at this time of the year, and can generate 
quite a bit of responses. You should definitely read the wiki page on this 
subject: 
Closing Books - GnuCash  
|  
|   
|   
|   ||

   |

  |
|  
|   |  
Closing Books - GnuCash
 

  |   |

  |

  |

  
Best,David 
 
  On Mon, Dec 24, 2018 at 10:32, Jennym<55.jennifer.mas...@gmail.com> wrote:   
Hi

I only started using GNUCash last April for simple, personal accounting, so
I'm at the 'basic' stage. I'm using it with:

a) Current bank account
b) Two credit card accounts
c) Personal Wallet
d) Three income accounts
e) Normal household accounts
f) Budgeting (manually entered, not automatic via the system)

So what I'd like to do:  Retain all of 2018 accounts (having them to hand
for easy access), but have them zeroed for 2019.

My worry is that if I do anything wrong, there's no historical 'undo' button
to backtrack.

Would really appreciate any advice. (Basic of course). Thank you 








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